presidental address to kids? - school students

boyohboyohboy wrote: Does anyone know if the address that the president is giving next tuesday is going to be broad cast in all schools or just certain schools? Has anyone listened to what it is he plans to talk to them about?

lesliesmom replied: What I have read about this address is that it is going to be broadcast on a white house web site at noon on Tuesday. Not sure if it is mandatory if all schools show it or not. My kids will not be in school. it is their first day and they only have a 1/2 day. There is an attached "curriculum" to go with it too. And there is not much information that I have found as to what this is going to be about other than keeping kids in school. I really wish they would post a transcript of it though so that the parents could know exactly what was going to be said and allow us the opportunity to decide if we want our kids to be part of it or not.

MommyToAshley replied: I would think that it would be a general pro-education message and that there wouldn't be any political agenda or tone to the message. I'm sure there would be an uproar if there were. But, you're right, I wouldn't mind seeing the transcript ahead of time.

luvmykids replied: The link Jimmie posted in the other thread about this explains it in greater detail.

It is not mandatory. Where I live there are not a lot of Obama fans so of the schools participating, many of them are giving parents the option of keeping kids home that day with an excused absence.

Our school is not participating.

BAC'sMom replied:
I just found out our schools will not be participating either.

PrairieMom replied: we just got a letter from our school saying that it will only be shown if the video fits into the individual classes curriculum. I can send a note asking for my child to have an alternate activity. I have no idea if it will be shown in my kids class tho.

mom21kid2dogs replied: That's lunch and recess at Olivia's school. I'm sure she wouldn't stay in to watch if God was doing a broadcast! That being said, I don't have any objection to her watching the President speak.

redchief replied: It's not mandatory that schools show the speech. They'll do it anyway, but since public schools are governed locally and by the states, the Dept. of Ed. can't require it.

Kentuckychick replied:
Honestly... and this is just my opinion, but that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Children need to learn to listen to and accept different opinions and different political views and they need to learn to think for themselves when it comes to their own beliefs.

I went to a Catholic school and parents certainly weren't given an option as to whether or not they wanted to keep their children home or excuse them during the science classes when we learned about the theory of evolution. Nor did we get a pass in sex ed when we were tought other methods of safe sex aside from the Catholic approved abstinence.

If the school is showing the broadcast then the kids should be there. Period. He's the president of this country and whether you agree with him or not you should not be keeping your children out of school for a day just because he's going to be addressing them via webcast in what will likely be nothing but a "stay in school' campaign. And what parent doesn't want their kid to stay in school??

Besides... what are children learning by being taken out of school because their parents don't think the activity for that day is worthy of being there for?

luvbug00 replied: i'm so over this pres.
I have no idea if myas' school will show it but i doubt it, he wasn't super popular here.

boyohboyohboy replied:
I couldnt disagree more. I do not want anyone giving my impressionable young child their opinion on political views when they are this young.
It is my responsibility to teach my child both views as I see fit, and being a conservative christian family, I am surely going to teach my child what I believe that is right and wrong, not what the government says is right or wrong.

Now I dont have any idea what it is the pres. wants to say at this broadcast, because he hasnt made it well known so its easy to find, word for word what he wants the kids to know. If it had been playing in our school, our son wouldnt have been going. We would have watched it first and then explained it to him in our view of right and wrong. If its just generic and he wants to encourage kids to stay in school and get a good education and work hard so they can get a good job well then put it out there in writing, all his other speeches are ready for him before he speaks, I am sure this is something he has gone over already..why is it such a secret, why are the parents not invited to watch it with the kids. This is not the way to win over parents.

I dont think young kids, our son is 7, needs to be confused or used as a pawn to get us to recycle or be more "green". How confusing for a young child to be told "your parents are wrong." "If your parents dont use these light bulbs you should tell someone." Come on, what a position to put them in.

There will be plenty of time for my son to make up his own mind on what he believes and feels is right when he is old enough and has the foundation we have laid for him. I would love him even if he disagreed with everything we teach him later in life, much later in life...he has to have a solid belief system now that we all support in our household or else where is his security, respect, and faith in his own parents?

Kentuckychick replied:
I understand your point of view but just want to make it clear that I was not saying I agree with anyone forcing their opinions on your child. Giving their opinions, on the other hand, is the only way children will ever learn. Not that at your children's ages... but as they get older, in political classes it is very much the responsibility of the teacher to present all sorts of differing political views. I don't think hearing other opinions ever once made me definitively change my own. It's all a part of growing up.

That said, I've read a lot about the speech. There are some individuals who believe Obama wants to use this oportunity to spew political mumbo jumbo at students one because he's asked schools to read up on presidents (including himself) with the kids. All students should read and learn about every single president of the US... not just the ones whose policies fall into line with their parents beliefs. I learned about every President from Washington through George Bush Sr. as I was going through grade school. All the good and the bad. And in fourth grade we were even asked to have our very own presidential elections (as if fourth graders know anything at all about anything politics other than what they hear in their homes).

Obama hasn't made well known what he will say, and I agree, it would be nice to know, but his staff has released information regarding the speech (which perhaps is not a prewritten speech? Just candid?) and has said this;

The goal of the speech and the lesson plans is to challenge students to work hard in school, to not drop out and to meet short-term goals like behaving in class, doing their homework and goals that parents and teachers alike can agree are noble," Tommy Vietor, a White House spokesman, told FOXNews.com. "This isn't a policy speech. This is a speech designed to encourage kids to stay in school."

As for recycling and all that... every school I've ever known teaches kids to recycle and conserve energy and every school should. I remember coming home when I was 10 or 11 and telling my mom and dad we needed to get a "Rosie". No biggie...


Anyway... to get to the end of the point... in everything I've read online it says that all a parent needs to do is ask that their child be removed from the classroom -- NOT unecessarily miss an entire day of school (which is what I thought was the truly ignorant thin to begin with - teaching kids it's okay to miss school just because there's something there *like a test maybe* that you don't want to do - creating a bad pattern).

boyohboyohboy replied: I agree with what you are saying for high school kids, college kids, but what does a child in kindergarden get from a speech like this?
This isnt just being presented for older kids.

Aside from the fact that it is from the president, there isnt anything that goes on in the school that we dont check into. I think most parents take a look at the school books, check into what the teachers will be teaching from each year the school starts. our teachers post it on their websites. I cant imagine not knowing what it is that is being said to your child BEFORE its said.

I used the recycling just as an example..

I will give you an example of something that did occur in our school, to a kindergarden class. They were told that its perfectly ok for the definition of a family to be two mommies or two daddies, and I dont mean step parents.
Now aside from what you believe about homosexuals, I find there no reason in the world to teach children at the age of 5-6 about homosexuals, and not just that, but we dont teach our kids that this is "ok".
That is an example of something being taught in school that a parent might disagree with and have them be absent for at such a young age.

I dont think its taking an easy way out, or telling a child its ok to miss a test, its making a statement to the school that this isnt acceptable. It isnt something I would explain to a child of the age of 6 either, I wouldnt say we are holding you home from school because we disagree with the school. I dont think going into that detail at that age is needed. If they were a little older and asked, I dont think explaining that taking a stand for what you believe in is giving them permission to skip a test.
I also wouldnt tell them to lie about why there were absent.

I think this is about so much more then just the president making a speech. I think its about making sure we know what our kids are being told or talked to about and using our american right to teach our kids as we see fit. Each individual family. One day isnt going to make them lose their education.
I also think that age of the child has a lot to do with it. I have young elementary and preschool age children. I dont have preteen kids or highschoolers.


I am glad that its still america and we are free to make these decisions and our kids are not taken from the family and told by government or religious organizations what to do or think.

I hope the presidents speech is only about staying in school and the importance of that. I guess we will see next week.

luvmykids replied:
I may have misunderstood, since my school isn't showing it, I don't know, it may be what Tara said where they're excused from watching the speech.

And, I agree a lot with what Stacey said so I won't repeat it all.

My kids know about Obama, we talk about him at home and talk about where we disagree. But they're also taught that as our President he deserves a certain level of respect, period (wish Bush haters would have had the same attitude, but that's a different story).

Anyway, my point is they're not closed off to what is going on in the world, and at their ages all they need to know about politics will come from their parents. As they get older that will change at some point.

I feel about Obama the way MANY people felt about Bush but I'm still respectful of the office he holds.

And since our school isn't participating it's really a non-issue anyway.

lesliesmom replied:
Well said... While DH and I do not agree with the policies that are coming out of the White House or a lot of what the President is saying/doing, we do respect the position that he holds and teach our children that they too need have show respect. We discuss what is going on in the nation and the world with them so that they are given both sides. Our kids hear our debates with others...thankfully we have friends that we can talk about the issues and it doesn't turn into shouting matches.

HOWEVER, in this instance, how hard is it for the White House to produce a transcript so that parents are given the chance to make an informed decision as to whether or not we want our children to attend? The "curriculum" provided is to vague to even make a guess as to what might be said.

msoulz replied: As I wonder aloud, would there be so much controversy had this been George W. addressing school children?

mom21kid2dogs replied:
I was wondering the same thing! I think Olivia would find him even more snoozable than Obama!!

luvmykids replied:
JMHO, definitely. His non supporters were just as vocal as Obama's. It would have been same uproar, different people.

MommyToAshley replied:
Exactly.

I guess I am in the minority here. I think it is a great idea, regardless if it is Obama or Bush as long as it is a general speech about staying in school and doing your best. Most kids will probably find it boring, but it still sends that message that "hey even the PRESIDENT thinks school is important". Ashley thinks it is neat that the President is speaking to the kids. Of course, since Rod and I differ on some political views, she hears political debates all the time. I remember at election time, she was one of the few in her class that knew both presidential candidates and their running mates. And, I guess she has no choice but to hear both sides and then make up her own mind... secretly, I am hoping she'll side with me. LOL

MommyToAshley replied:

MommyToAshley replied:
I agree with everything you said.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: I"m not intending to point the finger at anyone, this is just my opinion. I know some of you will get upset, becasue let's face it, it's how we roll.... there's always someone who's going to feel pointed at.. but I assure you, there are no fingers pointed at anyone here... and I apologize to those of you who will no doubt take offense. I don't mean to offend. If *general you* think it does apply to you, well, I don't agree with you, but I still respect you.


Regardless of your personal stance on a subject... this is the leader of your country whether you voted him in or not, and teaching your child to ignore his words or actions when they don't suit your needs is EXACTLY why kids these days have selective respect/disrespect for their peers/authority - it is a huge ignorant move, and I can't say I blame those same kids when they're 15, 16, can't hold a job because "mommy said i didn't have to". It's not so funny when they're 25, 30, and still have a problem with respecting authority when it doesn't mesh with their beliefs... and then you get to extremists and insurgent type of behaviours and you end up with these cults of twisted people who think they're in charge because their mommies told them that the world was wrong, and that "this" is what you should believe in.

This thing that parents do to shelter their kids.. really. If you want to send your child to a public school, then send them to a public school, where they will learn the general PUBLIC information that the government thinks they need to know. Send them to a private school if you want them to learn less general things and more specific versions of thing.. and if you still don't like what they have to offer, keep them at home where you can brainwash them all you want to suit your own beliefs and values if they are different than what the services you have access to provide.

I don't want my kids to be disrespectful little brats who spit in the face of those who their parents say are wrong, yet are in a position of authority... I mean... they can't be all that wrong if they're the LEADER, for crying out loud.. I teach my children that people have different views and opinions, and that even if I don't agree, I still respect them and will acknowledge the difference, rather than turning my back on them as if I'm better than them, and that I expect nothing less than that from them, because anything less than acknowledging the difference of opinion is truly ignorant and selfish.

I pity any child who is told one way to think is wrong, rather than being told there are different ways to perceive things. Even if the family value is one way... to teach your child to be close minded about the rest of the world's possible opinions, or even just the possibility of different opinions, is truly sad, and i am glad that my parents had the good sense to teach me to be open minded and respectful of other's opinions, regardless of whether I agreed or not.

As you can see, this subject REALLY burns my goat. If you don't like the way things are taught in the school YOU chose to send your child to, YOU teach, and quit blaming those who are obviously better equipped to teach your child. You think you're better equipped? Then why aren't YOU the teacher?

(I'm probably going to need someone to re-word stuff in here for me, I lose bits and pieces when I'm angry, things tend to seem half-butt translated.)

bluebear replied: I completely agree!

boyohboyohboy replied:
if you dont want to point fingers at people maybe you shouldnt say things like "ignorant move" I dont consider myself ignorant..
my children are not sheltered, they are kept from things that are age appropriate.

I think I had better be done with this post.

Just because someone has a high appointed job doesnt mean they deserve respect, and just because a child misses one day of school, to take a stand for what a family believes in doesnt make them some mass murdering child delquant.

done.

boyohboyohboy replied:
I for my own personal stance do not care who hold this seat, as long as they make what they want to speak to my child about publicly know..word for word...
whether its obama or bush or clinton or whoever, black, white chinese, the presidents job is not to speak to our children, he is to enforce the laws that our congress makes.

cameragirl21 replied: In principle, I think the idea of the president of the USA addressing school kids about the importance of staying in school, doing their best, etc, is a great idea.
I was not a Bush fan but if I had school aged children and he wanted to address them as a group the way Obama intends to I'd not have had a problem with that and would have been inclined to talk to them about it afterward, like at the dinner table and ask them what they thought about what he said, and then I'd share my thoughts, etc. I think overall, children are exposed to alternate thinking, morals, beliefs, opinions, etc, enough in school by their peers and even teachers that one speech by the president (that most kids will probably find boring anyway) won't change much. All in all, while I respect anyone's right not to want their child to hear the speech (or anything else), I do think it's wrong for any school to allow kids to miss a day of school for that and if Obama's speech is about the importance of education, imo, having kids take a day off defeats the purpose in a rather ironic way.
That said, I think it's odd Obama doesn't want to reveal upfront what he will be speaking about...that lends itself to suspicion and because of the controversy around him (he's more liberal than most dems, he's got minimal political experience and therefore no one can really look at his record to learn about him, he's presenting new concepts, like nationalized health insurance that some people feel strongly about, he has an arabic middle name and a muslim background, there appears to be no proof he was born here, etc) I think it's understandable that parents will be uneasy about his speech. I don't think he intends to indoctrinate children but the secrecy surrounding his speech is a bit odd, imo...he doesn't normally reveal the details of speeches before the actual speech but I think in order to reassure parents and keep kids in school as per the point of his message, it would be behoove him to lay out the details of his speech first.
I don't think keeping a child from school for the speech is the end of the world but I do think it defeats the purpose of education, where all sorts of new ideas will be presented to kids and I imagine some of those won't jive with all the parents' views. I imagine that even if you send your child to a religious school that is in line with your religious beliefs, it's possible that something may be taught that you don't totally agree with. Imagine if kids missed school everytime there would be a lesson parents didn't agree with!
I think Obama needs to show a little more transparency in his intentions so as to make sure his message doesn't defeat its own purpose and I also think we all need to keep in mind that this is still America and we are not ruled by dictators whose goal it is to indoctrinate us. The most important thing we can do as humans, imo, is to think for ourselves and be able on our own to determine right from wrong and I think it's a lesson kids need to start learning from the day they leave the womb and Idk if they can really learn it if they're not exposed to various schools of thought as opposed to just the ones their parents subscribe to.
edited for typos

Calimama replied: Uh what? How is there no proof he was born here? He released his birth certificate.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?.../a185120D55.DTL

Are you saying it was a forgery? Like some people believe? Just wondering.

Oh and the he's Muslim and has an Arabic middle name bit, is old and offensive. Whether or not I agree with his policies I'd let my child watch.

ETA: I agree with the last part of your statement for sure. I wish more people saw it like that.

cameragirl21 replied:
LOL, I didn't say he was muslim, I said he has a muslim background, which he does, that is a matter of fact. And he does have an arabic middle name, that too is a matter of fact. Facts never get old, nor should they be offensive.
As for the birth certificate being a forgery, I don't know and I don't care, I voted for Obama, I was just listing the various reasons others may be suspicious of him and they have every right to feel the way they feel, just as you do.
I didn't realize what I wrote was so hard to understand.

Calimama replied:
You don't need to be snotty. I wasn't. I was honestly just curious. I know you never said he WAS a Muslim. I was stating that I find the fact that it's brought up in every discussion (not just here), offensive. I'm also not disputing the fact that he has an Arabic name. I just don't understand the relevence of it, in THIS particular discussion. That's all. No hidden agenda.

msoulz replied:
Hard to debate that one, IMHO!

MoonMama replied:
ITA Denise!!!! I mean holy geez I can't believe any of that is STILL brought up! But just goes to show....repeat, repeat, repeat!

While I agree I think parents show know what will be said, over all that whole statement was just WOW unbelievable!

bluebear replied:

Kentuckychick replied:
I think there's a BIG difference.

I was/still am a HUGE non supporter of Bush (though I don't go around yapping about it all the time) and I can tell you right now that I would not have a problem if George Bush spoke to the children then, or now or years from now.

The huge difference between those of us who dislike Bush and those who dislike Obama seems to be that most of us who dislike(d) Bush (1 - didn't agree with his policies... but also thought he was just plain ignorant).

With Obama there are still those who don't like his policies and I respect that, but then there are the total whackos who are against him because he's black (and yes, they exist), those who still think he's Muslim and a terrorist who's taking over the government... and those who honestly think he's the complete anti-christ who is going to try to brainwash their children.

amymom replied: I am not at all an Obama supporter. However, he is the President of the US. I see nothing wrong with him doing it and George H. Bush & Reagan both addressed students with similar messages. The furor then was that they spent too much money to deliver the speeches to the schools.

This article: "SPEECH
says that the White House plans to release the speech online Monday so parents can read it.

I don't think he is doing anything underhanded or secretive....in this case.

BTW: Our school is recording the speech so teachers may review it and play it for their students at an appropriate time.

boyohboyohboy replied: I absolutely agree with recording it and playing it at a later date! that makes sense.
I am not against obama either at this point, i simple wanted complete transparency as he suggested he would give.

redchief replied: What we have here is literal proof that we have come to distrust our government. How sad that the Washingtonians can't hear us. They're still so buried in their own self-righteousness and partisan sniping that our shouts of anger are falling on deaf ears. Whether you lean left or right, you must admit that you're tired of business as usual in DC.

luvmykids replied:
As true as that may be, I think it's fairly ignorant to assume that ALL of us who disagree with Obama should be hushed because of the minority of non supporters who are whackos. Of course I can't speak for everyone who dislikes him as our President but I can speak for the ones I know personally and I can tell you not one single person does so out of racism or fear of brainwashing And to be perfectly honest, that argument is SO old, that if someone doesn't like him or his policy, roll your eyes and chalk it up to them being a racist/extremist/paranoid freak.

And you may not "yap" about your dislike for Bush, but there were plenty who did (and still do). I don't see the difference between them disagreeing with him and those of us who disagree with Obama.

Ed, thank you for what you said, because it sums it up pretty well for me.

To address what Rocky said, all I'll say to that is I feel just as strongly on this subject but I'm restraining myself because it's not my place to tell someone their child will end up a certain way if they do or don't hear a speech, nor is it fair to assume a child won't hear it because they're sheltered or because their parents are having a hissy fit. Yeah, you said nothing was aimed at anyone here and "you" wasn't directed at anyone but let's be honest....."you" is anyone here who feels differently than YOU. So my kid is sheltered and won't be able to get a job because I wouldn't have them participate in a speech, want me to tell me what your kids will end up like because of the way you parent? Probably not. ****Disclaimer: "You" isn't YOU, it's anyone who is arrogant enough to try to predict my childrens future when they know nothing about me or them other than what miniscule glimpses they've seen in an internet forum. Someone wants to stereotype me, I promise there are plenty of those to go around.

I'm done with the hypocrisy in every single one of these threads where someone says someone else is entitled to their opinion and then bashes their head into a wall for it.

Calimama replied: Me too Monica. As well the blatant rudeness.

And please no one confuse my differing opinon or me questioning your post with a lack of intelligence. It's insulting and degrading.. even when it's only vaguely implied. Being civil when you disagree with someone takes a lot more intelligence than throwing out insults.

Kentuckychick replied:
I think I clearly stated that there are individuals who disagree with his policies and I respect that... then I went on to say that what I don't respect was the individuals who disagree for the other reasons... and I never said that anyone should be hushed.

ETA -- and I know PLENTY of individuals who don't like Obama because they swear to God he's the anti-christ. It might be "old", but it's what they say. Trust me... I get tired of hearing it.

I never meant or wanted or tried to imply that your were one of those individuals.

boyohboyohboy replied:
thank you for expressing my feelings in a much more civil way, because everything I wanted to write wasnt coming out as something that should be placed here.

cameragirl21 replied: I think several people here have expressed themselves in a way that is not conducive to a good exchange of ideas and led an otherwise good conversation to quickly go South.
I also want to say that as a liberal who voted for Obama in a crucial state that is often referred to as giving Obama his presidency, I do recall in the Bush/Gore days that when we found out that Bush got caught drunk driving at the age of 30, we whooped that up like crazy and referred to him as a boozer, etc, so I do think it's rather hypocritical that some of us shut down when the right leaning people state their concerns about Obama, no matter how much we disagree with them.
I personally have NEVER heard anyone take issue with Obama because he's African American, not one person. I'm sure the klan in Alabama may think so but how many of us here have spoken to them? Hopefully none so I really don't think that is the issue.
That Obama has a Muslim background and Arabic name and is with great exuberance, reaching out to the Muslim world that we perceived as our enemies for many years prior IS a great concern for many and whether you like it or not, those for whom it is a concern consider it to be a legitimate concern and if you're going to brush it off as unbelievable, well, then let's just say that you're not part of the solution.
Obama's ratings are falling faster than snow in Alaska and it's predicted that in all likelihood, we dems are going to lose our majority in 2010 and our white house seat in 2012 and if you're going to scoff at people's concerns instead of addressing them as legitimate concerns then I hate to say it but you deserve what's coming.
If you can't treat the other side's concerns with respect you'll get none from the other side when they bring on their right leaning candidate that has opinions and skeletons in his/her closet that will likely concern you.
Respect goes both ways. And please, don't even say you didn't complain during the Bush years...if you were old enough to vote for Obama then you very likely did.

jcc64 replied:

I really don't know how any parent could find this objectionable, tbh. Anyone who's paid close attention to Obama's rhetoric, from way back in the very early days of his campaign, to the present, would be quite familiar with his pleas for more parental responsibility, accountability, and action when it comes to their children's education. Many, many times, I've heard him directly implore parents to turn off the tv, pick up a book with their kids, get intimately involved in their children's education, etc...Many times I've heard him call parents out on abdicating their personal and parental responsibilities. Of course, the personal responsibility crowd never seems to hear that part of his message, b/c that would make it too difficult to demonize him as a Nazi or a terrorist or whatever other idiotic slur they can manufacture.
I can just imagine what the reaction would be from the Limbaugh, Beck crowd if Bush were still in office and some schools refused to show his speech. Dissenters would all be tarred and feathered as communist sympathizers and traitors, no doubt.

jcc64 replied: Just read this, kind of wraps up what we've been chatting about here....
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/04/us/04sch...ner=rss&emc=rss

PrairieMom replied:
I'm sorry, but my eyes can not roll hard enough. I hope my son's class does get to listen to it. It is a speech about staying in school, other presidents have made similar.

I think it is important to teach our children to have strong minds and think for themselves, but that it is also important to learn other ways that people think / feel so they can form their own opinions. I want my children to know that there is our way of doing things, then there are many other ways, none of which are better or worse, just different. I don't know of another way to teach tolerance.

Kentuckychick replied:
I think a lot of why it's gone south is because people take things that other people say and twist them around. I was responding simply to the response of someone else that said it would have been the same uproar with Bush's non-supporters. I disagreed. That's allowed. (And when I said I don't go around "yapping"... yapping wasn't meant to imply that anyone else "yaps"... it's just a word).

When I said that there's a difference between the Bush non-supporters and the Obama non-supporters... I meant it. There is. But I did not... not once EVER say that I have a problem with people voicing their opinions. NEVER. I think it's great to have differing opinions and to voice them.

I don't think it's wrong either for parents to want to know what is going to be in the speech... and hey, it's being released Monday, so now you'll get to find out BEFORE your children hear it. I'm sure there will still be parents who pull their kids out of school simply because they don't like Obama. It will happen.

I disagree with pulling children out of school for something like this period. That is what I said was ignorant. And you can voice your differing opinions all you want and I will listen, but as an educator myself I think it will do more harm than good for children to miss an ENTIRE day of school for a speech that may only last 5-10 minutes... and during which it's likely no political agenda will be used.

As for your never hearing anyone take issue with Obama being African American (which he's technically not... but that's not the point), if you truly never have then you should thank your lucky stars that you obviously live in an area where racism is lessened. Try living in Kentucky... especially the hills of Kentucky. Here in Lexington it's not so bad, but it is in many, MANY other areas. My best friend taught last year in a school (in the second poorest county in the nation) and she didn't even dare even talk to the kids about the possibility of not voting for McCain. There were signs and posters about how a (insert the *N* word here) shouldn't be president. It's a HUGE issue.

As for the rest of that... I'm not responding. This was a post about people taking their children out of school because the president wants to speak. I've said how I feel about that.

Crystalina replied:
ITA 100%!

I also agree with what someone else said (sorry for not remembering who) that the Pres. talking to kids about education and staying in school CANNOT be a bad thing. I also think that any age could/should hear this. Maybe you have a 1st grader who is surrounded my drop-outs at home? There are things from 1st grade that stuck with me. Not only that, yes I am going to bring race into it , there are many African American and other minority groups who may see a black man speaking (who just happens to be the Pres) and that speech could make all the difference in the world to them staying in school. That right there is worth it alone.

And I would NEVER keep my child home from school because the President of the United States (who I may not agree with) would be speaking to them!! That is ubsurd! I'm not sure what you would be teaching your child by doing that. So what would happen if their teacher is not the nicest and they take issue with her? They just ignore her? They don't want to attend a meeting (as an adult) because someone they don't agree with will be there so they just skip it? Hmmm, yep, that'll teach them. Actually, only your child will be the one missing out if this is what they are taught and how they live their life.
But, not my kids so...

And to answer anyone's question about if Bush were the one speaking...you bet your sweet butt my kids would be there to listen. Why should they not? Heck, we watched "W." today. Now, I thought it was going to be a comedy (which is why I put it on ) but I'm glad I watched it. Izabella watched bits and pieces with me and we learned a bit more about "W" then we knew before. She said she felt bad because he always had to compete with his brother and I told her that it's sad he feels he has to also. No negatives whatsoever in our conversation or about the movie about the former Pres. Even though I don't agree with alot of what he did he was our President and he deserves respect for that. I was NEVER one to say that he was not *my* President. Even though I did not vote for him I still live on the soil that he resides over and IMO if you don't want to respect the President that was voted into office then move off the soil he was voted in to rule over. Easy as that.

Crystalina replied: Ahhh, I miss this place.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: First off, I didn't call anyone ignorant, I said it was ignorant to teach your child to ignore the president's words or actions. Children who are taught to disregard authority have trouble adapting to a workplace in which they must not disregard authority, plain and simple. I did not predict anyone's kids' future here, so get off my back.



Nowhere in there did I throw any insults, I apologize for those of you who took offense, (I knew there would be some, there always seems to be).

This is ridiculous. Twist my words, why don't you.

Crystalina replied:
They still exist???
MY WORD!!
You don't say!
Tsk, tsk.



They still exist but for some reason they like to find "other" reasons to not like Obama. They are so transparent though really.

Crystalina replied:
Thank you for that!

Hmm, I wonder what people will come up with now?




(((sitting back and waiting to see )))

luvmykids replied:
I didn't twist a thing....I was intelligent enough to catch your very thinly veiled implications.

You implied people are ignorant to choose to not have their kids watch the speech. You don't know the reasons and are in no position to judge them. For example, my kids would not have watched the speech (had it been shown at their school, which it is not) but that does not equate to disregarding the President and his words/actions. Doesn't mean we don't talk about him here at home. Doesn't mean we don't talk about why we do or don't agree with him or any other leaders for that matter.

You implied that a parent who doesn't have their kid watch the speech doesn't make their kid do ANYTHING (the kid who can't hold a job because mommy said they didn't have to). You implied that a person who disagrees with their President is raising snotty brats who will be closed minded....insanely ridiculous. We disagree about 100% but they have not and will not speak of him in any manner OTHER than respectfully because that is what WE have taught them. You imply parents who shelter their kids or "keep them home" brainwash them....the list goes on.

And, to be really honest, I don't give a crap if I've pissed you off....I've been a member here for long enough to see that you have a lot of nerve to call yourself open minded when you're making blanket statements that classify someone who doesn't share your point of view closed minded. I'm a person with strong personal convictions and maybe I'm not open minded enough to let that be swayed but guess what....I'm proud of that. However, that does NOT mean I'm closed minded. Your mind can't be changed, but you're open minded. My mind can't be changed, but I'm ignorant.

Whatever, I'm done here. Edit me, delete me, suspend my account. Do whatever you have to do to get rid of one more closed minded, ignorant idiot.

Crystalina replied:
So so true.

Insanemomof3 replied: Hmmmm maybe talking politics on this board is a bad idea? Why do people have to get SO upset? I don't get it, I thought that we are supposed to follow the "treat others as you want to be treated" rule? Is this really the best way? We are all people, we all have opinions and thats fine, but can't we just agree to disagree and not argue?

Crystalina replied:
Don't say that.

Crystalina replied:
Talking politics is never good here or anywhere. You can throw religion in there as well. I've been here long enough to know what will bite someone's butt and politics, abortion, religion and what's that other one? Oh yeah! To be crunchy or not to be. You can always bet the claws will come out in those topics sooner then later and most likely not intentionally. I think we are all very passionate on what we believe and sometimes on forums you just can't bring issues like these up without someone walking away hurt, mad or just plain done with the lot of us.

Insanemomof3 replied: Yeah I know, it is just sad to me that we can't seem to have a healthy "debate" without feelings being hurt.

MoonMama replied: AMEN Monica!!!!

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
Monica I wasn't implying anything. Whether you think they seem to be thinly veiled implications doesn't mean a thing to me, *I* know that I wasn't implying a single thing.

I didn't say anyone was ignorant because they have strong beliefs and can't have their mind changed - I said it was ignorant to refuse to acknowledge any other opinion than their own. Acknowledging something doesn't mean you have to agree. I also said that it was ignorant to teach your child to ignore the president's words /actions.

If you read that as I said that you're ignorant because your mind can't be changed, than I don't know how else to write it so that it gets through. I never once said my mind can't be changed, so I don't know where you got that from, and I didn't say that anyone here was teaching their child to ignore the president's words/actions, which is what I said was ignorant. I was talking about the kids whose parents DO teach them to disregard authority... and again, as far as I could tell, NOBODY HERE was teaching their child to do just that - I wasn't talking about any of the kids or parents here, so WHAT is the PROBLEM!!!!!

Funny how I'm not the only one who mentionned ignorance, but I'm getting all the crap thrown my way, and for things I didn't even write!!!!

It's ok, ya'll can take it out on me, I really don't give a crap. But I will NOT accept to have words put in my mouth, and I won't accept being accused of implying things I did not imply.

jcc64 replied: I disagree 100% that talking about politics should be avoided. We need this exchange of ideas desperately. Sometimes it gets heated, sometimes words/intentions get misunderstood or twisted--that's the nature of message boards in general. But we need to keep the dialogue going at all times. What gets represented in the media or in Washington as the voice of the people cannot be trusted--they all have their own agenda. Only by having these kinds of "real people" dialogues can it ever be possible to understand where "the other side" is coming from. And with understanding comes acceptance. And with acceptance hopefully comes peace of some sort.
We all want the same thing--we want this country to flourish so our kids can have the best shot at a promising future. Wishing Bush or Obama failure means wishing us all failure. It gave me no satisfaction to see Bush prove me right that the Iraq war was a huge mistake. Thousands of lives were lost or destroyed. Billions of dollars continue to be wasted. Families are torn apart. And what do we have to show for it? And yet, had he succeeded at whatever it was he was after, our country's reputation would have been in far better shape than it is today, the soldiers would already be back with their families, etc...Who wouldn't prefer the second option? Similarly, seeing Obama fail will not position this country to regain its economic footing. People will consider to struggle economically. Uninsured people will continue to drain our economy. Big business will continue to hold our democracy hostage to their own greed and self-interest.
I've heard it mentioned that the Republicans' biggest agenda is to see Obama fail, at anything and everything so they can regain the presidency in 3 yrs. But look at the damage that will be done in the meantime if he does. We will all pay the price if he fails. So give him/us a chance. You'll get your opportunity to speak again during the next election.

PrairieMom replied:
ITA.
We aren't supposed to all agree. these conversations are my #1 favorite thing about PC. I can see all different sides. It helps me to form my own feelings on the subject, and also understand where other people are coming from.

msoulz replied:
But there's a lot of entertainment value in it! Oops I meane opportunities to learn...

MommyToAshley replied:
I was with you 100% until the above statement. I am one of those that is all for personal responsibility and I don't demonize Obama as a Nazi or a terrorist. Because I believe in personal responsibiltiy, I do think a pro-education speech directly to students from our President about being personally responsible, staying in school and doing your best is an awesome idea (as I said in my comments above). However, since we are dealing in generalizations, I am curious to know why is it that Obama supporters think personal responsibility is important in this area but not in other areas, like being responsible for paying their own debt? (and as you know from previous discussions about this, I am not talking about the hard working people that lost their job due to the economy and need a little help gettting back on their own two feet)

MommyToAshley replied:
I agree that talking politics is a good thing. I've learned a lot from the discussions we've had here. I missed some of the heated moments in this thread as I was out celebrating Ashley's birthday. I think it's just hard not to take things personally because things like politics, religion, and how we parent our children are very personal things and we all have strong beliefs. But, I think we often forget that the tone we use affects how well people listen. Sometimes I get heated too, but I try to remember that my thoughts will come upon deaf ears if the first thing I do is put someone in a defensive state by attacking them. I am not always successful at conveying my thoughts without offending but I am making more of an effort to try.

As far as politicians wanting the other side to fail, it goes back to what Ed said about politics as usual. I don't agree with how you saw Bush and the Iraq war, and I think in time history will shed a better light on Bush's presidency and his actions. But, that's an entirely differnt debate. I think the R. politicians in Washington would love to see Obama fail for their own job security, just as the D. politicians wanted to see Bush fail. But, I don't think that is how the rest of American feels, and it's sad because they are suppose to represent us.

MommyToAshley replied:

MommyToAshley replied:

lovemy2 replied:


That's all I have to say cause what I WOULD like to say certainly would not be well received.....which in retrospect is very sad because I won't even touch these conversations with any kind of response because its next to impossible due to a select few to have it taken for what its worth - an opinion and opportunity to learn - so therefore I take this thread for its "entertainment" value but do feel bad for the people on here to truly tried to have this be nothing but a discussion about something which really is very important....

MommyToAshley replied:
I have to agree with Monica on this statement. There may be a few people out there that dislike Obama because of race, but it is insulting to those of us that differ based on policy that continuously have to defend ourselves against claims of being racist. If you think about it, there are people out there that voted for Obama just because of race, and I don't accuse all supporters of Obama of doing so just because of race. I think that fact that Obama was elected says something about the changing times. I don't think I ever saw Obama speak up as race being a factor in why he should or shouldn't be President and I think we can all learn from that. I don't think racism should ever be accepted or ignored, but it shouldn't be an excuse either.

jcc64 replied:

I am speaking for myself, not all Obama supporters here. I think personal responsibility is important across the board, not just with education. But I think the difference lies in how we see that being played out. All life circumstances are not equal, and I am certain that it is not always or even often possible for many people to "make it" even if they try their hardest, work every waking hour, and do everything "right," whatever that is. Granted, lots of people don't do the right thing, are irresponsible, lazy, make all kinds of stupid decisions, etc...but for every person like that, there are hundreds that are treading water as hard as they can and they will never make it to the end of the pool, no matter how hard they try. Honestly, Dee Dee, when everything gets pared down between our political philosophies the main difference between us is that I think you still believe that if everyone works as diligently as you guys, and are as responsible as you are, that they can and will end up where you are. I simply don't believe that. I believe the deck is firmly stacked against lots of people, for reasons that are too numerous and complex to get into here, and that in those cases, the gov't can and should step in to ameliorate that.
And as far as education being more important than anything else, well, you're talking to a teacher here, so I'm a little biased. If anything is going to bring the people I referenced above closer to being able to take care of themselves, it's education, and Obama knows that. That's why he's giving the speech, and I only wish everyone could stop assigning insidious ulterior motives to what I think was a sincere effort to motivate kids.

msoulz replied:
Egads, I should find and educational opportunity to learn how to spell "mean" ...

MommyToAshley replied:
I agree with you here.. education is important and I think it is great that he wants to make this speech. I do think the opposition in Washington is completely politically based. I personally don't have a problem with Obama speaking as I can't see it being a politically motivated speech but I am trying to understand those that do have objections. I do think that there are some parents that really just want to know in advance what is going to be said, and if the Obama administration would just release the speech in advance then this debate would be put to rest.

amymom replied: Has anyone looked here?

President's talk to kids

MommyToAshley replied:
Unless I am missing it, it looks like this is still just the supplemental materials and not the actual speech.

amymom replied:
The speech is scheduled to be released on Monday. But the supplemental materials are good to see too!

MommyToAshley replied:
Thanks for the link. I've seen the supplemental materials, which ironically the wording of these materials is what sparked the debate.

Kentuckychick replied:
Yeah... wording like "Is President Obama inspiring you to do anything?" "Challenging you to do anything"... those apparently immediately tossed up the red flags that Obama was going to inspire (read "brainwash -- and that's not my word but the exact word I've read over and over online from worried parents) their children to go along with all of his political beliefs.

Frankly if Obama inspires just ONE child to stay in school, graduate and go to college I think it will be awesome.

You never know, the future President of the United States (democrat or republican) could well be someone who sits through this speech and is inspired to strive to become the President later on.

I've lost a lot of faith in the younger generation we have going right now. Test scores across the nation (I know not everywhere but in MANY areas) have dropped drastically. Education is the poorest it's been in years. I really hope that Obama makes an impact.

As for Obama supporters thinking personal responsibility does not fall across the board. This is not an "across the board" subject. I may be an Obama supporter, it doesn't mean I agree with everything he does.

I do find it funny though, that for some reason every republican who I've talked to forgets that Bush was the one who signed the first massive bailout. Obama's not the only one who's shirked on the whole "personal responsibility" thing. Seems if you're rich enough in this country according to the government (regardless of who it's run by) you don't have too much of that.

Boo&BugsMom replied: I am really happy with the way Tanner's school is approaching this situation. he goes to public school...which should be a non-issue, but I'm glad his school is not a "free for all" and they respect the families different points of view. I do think it has gotten blown out of proportion, but in our home no matter what, we preview what our children watch before we allow them to watch it. No matter if it's a cartoon, a speech, a tv show, all things watched are pre-approved! It's a part of parenting, and each parent has the right to allow or not allow their children to watch something. I am not sheltering my children, I am PARENTING! I keep my children from watching anything that we think is not appropriate for their age, period.

Anyways, Tanner's school will be taping it, and then reviewing it. After they review it, each individual teacher will decide if it's appropriate for their classroom and falls in line with their curriculum. If they use it, then a letter will get sent home informing the parents that it will be shown, and a parent's must sign a permission slip. If a parent opts out then those children will be given a different activity. I think that is a fair approach.

As far as everything else that has been discussed, I'm not going there because it's pointless really. In general, I have pretty much wanted to say everything that Monica has said. So, you can go back and reread what Monica has posted and just pretend I wrote them all over again!

I will watch the speech myself, because I'd like to review it. If we think it's ok, then we'll allow Tanner to watch it. If there is something in the content that we do not agree with, then I wont allow it or we might come to a middle ground. Simple as that. It's really no different than signing a permission slip for sex-ed. I want to know what my child is learning. Just because I send my child to a public school doesn't mean they should be given the freedom to teach whatever they want and make it a free for all. They still need to be sensitive to the families that they are working with! For many people, public school is the only option their family faces.....it certainly doesn't mean that the schools should get to throw whatever opinions/issues/teachings that they want at the children they teach. I like the fact that Tanner's school is very tolerant of the different cultures, religions, points of view, etc. that they have. I also like the fact that they are respecting each parent's right to choose. Afterall, WE are the parents and just because my child goes to a public school doesn't negate my rights as their parent! Respect is a huge deal with me, and it goes both ways.

boyohboyohboy replied:
FINALLY...my voice of reason and right on topic.

A&A'smommy replied:
THANK YOU!!!!!!!

We do this also and our school is doing the same thing, except my husband is the one recording and reviewing (along with our interim Superintendent) afterwards if it seems ok then the principles will decided how and if they are going to show it.

youngmomofone replied: Its in certain schools. Our schools here decided not to show it.

my2monkeyboys replied: Well, even though we homeschool our boys, if they were in school I would not keep them home or opt-out of seeing the speech. We are not Obama supporters here, we are conservative Christians that raise our children the same way, but Obama is our president and is deserving of respect for the office he holds. 99% of his policies/decisions I have disagreed with so far, but as long as the speech is encouraging words dealing with staying in school, getting a solid education and striving to be the best at whatever you set out to be, then I'm all for it. If he does turn it into some sort of spring board for policy discussions, then he should be taken to task for that. School is there to teach our children their ABC's and 123's. Home is where they should learn morals and values, which is the foundation for their future political beliefs.

jcc64 replied:

Dee Dee, after reading this, I think we're MUCH closer to being on the same page than either one of us previously thought. I can find absolutely nothing to argue with in this post!
Happy belated b-day to Ashley, btw!

~Roo'sMama~ replied:
ITA My kids are not school age yet and we might homeschool... it's up for debate. But if they go to public school I will want to know what they are being taught.

As for the speech, I think it's fine and great that the President is going to do it. But I am glad that they posted it online for parents and teachers to read before hand, and I think previewing it is a good idea too. It's not disrespectful to want to make sure it will be appropriate for your kids to hear.

redchief replied: Excuse me, but I'm an American and I get to speak when I like about what topic I wish to address.

That being said, I think that whole attitude is what's got the backs of the GOP up. The Democrats can't help but remind the GOP that they control both houses and therefore can pretty much do what they please. So the only defense the Repubs have is to go back to the constituency; which whether you'd like to admit it or not, they've done masterfully. No president has ever sunk in popularity so quickly (and we all thought W.'s crash was epic), and no Congress has ever had so many people verbally rip their ears off.

I think this whole debate about what the President's going to say hinges on our concern about the way our politicians are playing right now. They're playing hardball on both sides of the fence and we simply don't want our kids thrown into the middle of that. It just wouldn't be fair to them. We understand that adults don't always behave nicely, especially with so much at stake. But we choose to let our children live in a simpler world while they still can. I think that IS fair.

It's our time to run the world now. We have a great responsibility to ensure that we leave our kids something they can work with when it's their turn. I think we also have a responsibility to ensure they can afford it. I don't know how the health care issue is going to come out. Last word was the White House is now drafting their version of a health care bill. That will make three very different documents all being thrown around DC, all hoping for the final presidential blessing in whatever form it winds up. No, our kids should bear no responsibility for that. Fortunately, the President is keeping his speech to what's important to the kids... Learn so that you will know what you want when it's your turn.

MommyToAshley replied:


Actually, I think we've always been on the same page with what we want for our country, but we've just differed on how to get there. I don't think that penalizing the guy that worked hard to earn more money for his family only to be moved up to a higher tax bracket and actually make less is the way to go. I am also not quite convinced that socialized medicine is the right thing for us either, but we definitely need health care reform. Like Ed said, there are so many different bills floating around, and so much conflicting information, I am not really sure where I stand on the issue except that we do need change. Whatever the outcome, I do have to respect Obama for opening the dialogue and making health care his cause for it is definitely one that affects the lives of so many. And, I've always said that everyone should have access to health care regardless of race, age, sex, or income. I do believe it is a right, not a privilege or benefit.

Sorry everyone, not sure how I got so far off topic

And, thanks for the birthday wishes.

coasterqueen replied:
Whew! I'm glad I wasn't here for this whole debate....I'd be in TROUBLE.

That said, Jen has said it very well for me, also agreeing with what Monica has said.

I am not so against him speaking to my children as I am the lesson plan. Our school will not show it to the kids until Thursday when we have been given an opportunity to view it ourselves. That being said, I still will call the school and discuss the issue of the lesson plan. My child can listen to it, then WE as their parents can discuss the speech with them. I don't want any teachers swaying my child one way or another. It's not their place and schools are good at trying to sway children into anything really...unfortunately.

It's nice to see another thread full of attacking people here and there for many things and NOTHING looks to have been done about it......again.

MommyToAshley replied:
I am sorry you feel that way. A lot of the "attacking" went on while I was away from the board, as it appears you were too. It seemed to go back on track by the time I got back here and people seemed to work it out for themselves which is why "nothing" was done. There were a lot of guilty parties, but it looks like people worked it out, and hopefully it was a learning experience for us all. We do not permit attacking on this board but unfortunately we can't be here 24/7 and I am glad to see that people were able to work it out and get back on track themselves.

Kickin replied: When is the speech going to be aired via webcast?

Will it be on Youtube?

My2Beauties replied:
Yeah I have to agree with you, I'm in Northern Kentucky in the biggest city there is with the largest african-american population in Kentucky period...and I've had tons of people spew out racial Obama slurs and it's seriously the most pitiful thing I've ever heard. Not once did I hear anyone rat on Bush because of the color of his skin, it was solely because of his policies and the fact that they believed he was a blubbering idiot (not intended to make anyone mad, but these are basically word for word what you hear when people disliked Bush). In Kentucky, you literally hear tons of horrible negative racial remarks regarding Obama and I have really yet to hear anyone intelligently (except on here) say they dislike him for this or that......even my DH's own family (most of them) were appalled that I voted a N***** into office....

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Exactly! I do not think that is too much to ask. I really hate it when people pull the "public school" card and assume it's ok for teachers to do whatever they want just because it's public school. It's an irrational thought. I am still the mother, period. I am just lucky that Tanner's school is on the same page and respects the families in their care. That's the way it SHOULD be!

MommyToAshley replied: I am all for parental control and censoring what my child sees... I do that with Ashley. However, I am curious, for those of you that wanted the speech in advance and to know what lesson plans will be taught, have you requested copies of lesson plans and lectures in advance for all subjects prior to this speech? I receive weekly lesson plans, such as in history we will discuss blah blah and blah. But, I have never received detailed information about how the subject will be taught.

I have to agree with whoever said that there will be far greater influences in your child's education than this speech from Obama. I can honestly say that my economics professors and political science teachers did have some influence in shaping my political views. Both my parents are registered democrats and I am a registered republican. LOL. However, in the end, I just had an open mind and came to my own conclusions (the logical one...lol). Needless to say, election time is not my favorite time when it comes to family discussions.

coasterqueen replied:
I wanted the lesson plan, my girlfriend actually brought it up this weekend when she came to visit, as she knew I hadn't seen it yet. I don't do that for everything, no, but this is an unusual circumstance.

You speak about teachers and how they influenced your views, but you speak of that at higher grade levels. As I previously stated my concern is not if my child was much older, it was the age of my children now. And quite frankly, as I previously stated I'm not worked up about all of this. My child will be viewing it and may be getting the "lesson plan" on it as well at school. Again, I have no problem with that. What I wanted to know was what the lesson plan was for her age, since the President's people are the one who suggested lesson plans. Do they really need to offer such a thing? Aren't our teachers intelligent enough to come up with one on their own? I mean, seriously, that is showing how much control the presidency want over everything. I think for me it's the only responsible thing to do by asking my child's teacher what they plan to teach about his speech, since his team is the one who suggested what to use as a possible lesson plan.

I really don't have to worry about it, for the most part anyways, as I come from a school district that is VERY MUCH republican. I don't think I have to worry about them swaying my child ("brainwashing") into believing him.

jcc64 replied:

Bundling content into lesson plans is how educators customarily work, and I'm quite certain a team of educational professionals worked long and hard crafting whatever lesson plan came with the speech. The teachers and schools can use it or not. No one's got a gun to their heads, and to use this particular example as illustrative of Obama's mission to brainwash our impressionable youth into card carrying socialists borders on paranoia, imo.

Crystalina replied: The school my kids go to did not show it so I will find it online and let them watch it if they would like. I should have knows the twits in my area would not show it. These are the same people who push after school bible classes (in the school mind you) but threatened to suspend my nephew for "being silent" on a day set aside for observing gays that are bullied (even though the boy is nowhere near being gay).
Shoulda known.

redchief replied:
Actually the content of those lesson plans were one of the hot points of the debate. Whether they worked long an hard on them or not is immaterial. Some of my best lesson plans come off the cuff. I've found the topical lesson plans seem to score well with kids, where plans by rote bore them. The hot button item in the lesson plans was the essay on how kids can help the president. Taken in and of itself, this seems pretty harmless, but this is where the "brainwashing" finger-pointing came from. Although I don't see the great harm in having a child think about how to solve some of the world's problems, I certainly understand why some people would take offense to the president asking kids to do this for him.

For example, if a parent orders a child to clean up his room, and he does it, what was his motivation? In contrast, if a child cleans up her room because her friends are coming over for a sleepover, what is her motivation? In both ends the room got cleaned, but it's the motivation that matters.

In the first example a child cleans his room because a figure of authority ordered that he do so. Known or perceived consequences for not doing as he's told motivates him to complete the task. In the second, the girl's motivation to clean her room comes from a sense of personal pride and a desire to maintain or increase her status in her community (small as it is - but that's how kids think).

Having taught kids for a long time I know that last year's lesson plans won't necessarily work this year. Kids have personalities and classes develop them as well. I'll spend the first couple weeks getting to know the kids I have this year and decide then how best to approach a learning environment, building on what I have from previous classes. (This is the greatest benefit of homeschooling though you all know I'm no fan of that) I think it best left to the teachers who stand in front of these kids to determine best how to use the president's message as a learning tool.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
What's wrong with this??? I mean, I do see your point Crystal as it seems that your point is that they are contradicting themselves and being biased in their decisions. But, many schools have after school programs, and yes some are religious. We had a program called "Time Out" at our school that was a Christian based group that I LOVED. However, if someone wanted to start a Muslim group )for example) after school it would have been allowed as well. Nobody did, but had they wanted, they would have allowed it. Going to a public school doesn't mean that children should not be allowed to express their faith. It's not freedom "from" religion, it's freedom "of". KWIM?

coasterqueen replied:
Hmm, Jeanne. You are jumping the gun here. I never said this is how he's trying to "brainwash" us. Never said he was trying to do that. He's trying to control every thing that he can do - that's not necessarily brainwashing. I just think teachers can come up with lesson plans themselves on this. I am not a teacher, but have several in the family and several that are friends and we discussed this this past weekend at a party we had and they even agreed that most times when they take stuff from the news, or a tv segment they make up their own questions for their class, they don't need the president or his staff of whomever giving them a plan.

MommyToAshley replied:
I am sure the lesson plans were just mere suggestions. The teachers could use them or not use them... or they may spark another idea.

coasterqueen replied:
I am sure they were too. I just saw it as unnecessary, as I stated.

MommyToAshley replied:
But I don't see the harm in them either? Some of the wording caused the whole controversy, but I don't think it was intended to way people took it.

Anyways, Ashley's class wrote a descriptive paragraph about "What I want to be when I grow up" and they had to include what tools and training they would need for their job. Ashley said she wanted to be a rock star, she'd need a sparkly dress, a microphone, and she'll have to practice singing a lot so she gives a good concert. LOL!

coasterqueen replied:
Ok, so YOU don't see the harm in it. Fine, that is your opinion. Many people do. I agree with Ed, I think the teachers are capable of doing it themselves. I would have just quoted Ed and agreed, but I didn't read that far before replying to Jeanne.


Kylie's school is doing "what you want to be when you grow up too". I think it's a common thing. They were doing that regardless of Obama's speech. They did it last year in Kindy too.

MommyToAshley replied:
I was just trying to lighten the mood a bit with Ashley's ambitions, but evidently it didn't work.

coasterqueen replied:
No, I thought what she said was cute. I'm sorry I didn't reply to that. I just was confused as to why you were trying to change my mind with how I see the issue with the lesson plan. I was just replying to Jeanne's view of what she saw as my paranoia.

ETA: And maybe you weren't trying to change my mind.

MommyToAshley replied: I wasn't trying to change your mind. I was just simply stating that I don't see the harm in offering a lesson plan. Or, I guess, more accurately, I was (and still am) trying to understand the objections. It is not mandatory, it is not forced upon the teachers, it was merely some ideas that teachers could use in the classroom. If a teacher liked the idea he/she could use it as is, alter it, of if he/she didn't like it then the teacher didn't have to use it. How is this any different than finding a lesson plan or ideas for the lesson plan on the internet? Because it came from someone in the Obama adminstration or someone they consulted with? How do you know some of the lesson plans on the internet or on the teachers materials didn't come from the same authors? If it is a good idea, who cares where it came from? I just think people get tied up in the politics of things that the fight becomes more important than what they are fighting for. I am not a big fan of Obama's and don't agree with a lot of what the administration is doing, that is no secret. But, I just don't understand why this was such a battle.

coasterqueen replied:
Well, since you keep replying to me, YOU are making this a battle. Not ME. I simply stated that I don't like the White House giving out lesson plans. They are here to run the country, not to teach my children. I'd have the same opinion about a republican, too. People just seem to be making an issue out of a differing opinion because it's Obama. (ETA: This statement is a generalized statement regarding everyone in this debate, not you because I quoted you, lol) Just a personal preference. Just like how you raise your child is your personal preference.

Again, you keep replying to me, and I never said it was a BIG deal. I fully plan on letting my child listen to the speech and I've talked to the school about the lesson plan. I feel that it is MY responsibility to know whether the teacher is going to use a lesson plan from someone I do not agree with, just like I would in ANY other circumstance. That is called responsibility for my child, IMO. That's not a big deal and it's not a battle.
If you want to know why others think it's a battle then ask them. I feel like since you keep replying to me you are asking me. I NEVER had a problem with my child listen to the speech. I parent my child well enough that his speech is not going to sway my child or "brainwash" her in any way shape or form. She gets enough of that from her grandmother when it comes to religion.

On a side GENERAL note to this thread:

I think this is hilarious, the whole debate, because like someone else said, if this was Bush I know all the Bush-haters would be doing the same thing, but because it's Obama they think the world is coming to an end because someone has a differing opinion. We rant and rave on this board about respecting the president and how we should do it (because it's Obama), but there were PLENTY who didn't respect Bush at all. What seems to be good for the goose is not good for the gander around here.

This issue is no different than if this topic was about teaching sex ed to young kids in school. In 3rd grade we had to have a permission slip signed to be shown a movie on getting your period and other sex issues. Why is this any different? People want to know when their children are being taught something that MAY be controversial to some. It's our responsibility to our children!

luvmykids replied:
Couldn't agree more....can't you hear the comments? "I'm not letting my kid watch, his grammar is worse than my third graders"

What Obama supporters seem to have forgotten very quickly is that a very small majority of them respectfully disagreed with Bush....If I had the time I could go dig up plenty of threads right here on this board that prove my point.

MommyToAshley replied: I'm sorry Karen, I didn't mean to have a dialogue with you, I didn't realize that would upset you. I think that is what the whole idea of the board was about.

MommyToAshley replied:
I agree, I think there needs to be respect on both sides of the issue. If you go back and read those threads, you will see I said the same things when people were bashing Bush.

coasterqueen replied:
Again, you are taking my tone out of context. I'm not upset at all. I just felt since you were quoting me,that you were asking ME these questions, and I can't answer them more than I already did. Again, not upset in the least. I'm tired this morning, but not grouchy or upset at all. I like the dialogue, I like the debates.

My2Beauties replied:
yes true (I will be the first one to admit I bashed Bush. I have hatred for that man and I let it be known) but the same people who were jumping on the Bush-bashers are the same ones bashing Obama. And just FYI in the other thread I stated had this been Bush speaking to our children regarding education and staying in school my child would have watched it just as well, even though I loathed him and disagreed with practically everything he did while in office, the message of staying in school is a great one and one I completely agree with no matter if it came out of Hitler's mouth. I don't think anyone here that is on the side of allowing their children to view it and are Obama supporters said they would not if it had been Bush, I think even Crystal said she would if it were Bush.

coasterqueen replied: I came across this blog by a dad talking about the presidential address to the kids. Here it is if you want to read it: Dad Blog

I especially liked this quote-- the last sentence in particular -- it's what my feeling has been all along about this speech:

MommyToAshley replied: You know, I am sure the Obama administration isn't too upset about the controversy over the speech. I am sure it was the most read speech, probably at the top of the Google searches, and it sure is the most commented on thread here at Parenting Club -- whether you are for or against the speech in the schools, you probably read the speech.

coasterqueen replied:
True.

DansMom replied: I knew I'd find some lively discussion here! Daniel's school showed the speech. Some parents did keep their kids home that day. I watched it live streaming here at work, so I'd be watching simultaneously and know what he saw.

The thing he remembered when I asked him about it was that J. K. Rolling was rejected by 12 publishers before getting the first Harry Potter published. That made a huge impression on him, as he loves those books. He tends to get frustrated and give up if he's not instantly good at something, instead of sticking with it. It was a great way for me to reinforce the idea that successful people sometimes fail *a lot* and have to keep trying and practicing. The president's encouragement on this, along with something that for him was a very relevant reference, really felt supportive to me.

MommyToAshley replied:
Thanks for sharing that!