ohhhh, my godson's mom - long....

cameragirl21 wrote: ok, so i have a big problem--remember when i said that it was my responsibility to send my godson to CCD? and i had questions and issues....?
ok, now my godson's mom says she is totally against his going to CCD and against confession and the church and the whole thing and is against his doing it and says if i do it it will be against her wishes and her beliefs.
and i said, "but you said this was MY decision and now you're saying it's not?" and she said, "well, Jennifer, i don't believe in any of it and neither do you so why do it? neither of my older boys did it so why should Charlie?"
ok, at the risk of offending some of you i will admit that i totally don't believe in anything the Catholic church or Christianity stands for in general BUT i took an oath of responsibility and i feel like a sh*thead if i don't carry it out, even if it is against my gs's mom's wishes. i took an oath, plain and simple, how can i justify not doing this?!
i am VERY upset about this. i feel like a failure. i cannot justify not doing this because that is the whole point of being a godmother! i don't know what to do, i cannot force my godson's mom to go along with this if she's so against it, i mean i CAN wear her down and coerce her but that would be wrong IMO. but she never told me before she was against it, she just said she didn't care either way and now all of a sudden she is against it.
i do not believe in shirking responsibilities. it doesn't matter what i believe or what she believes. she went thru the baptism and so now i'm a GM and now i'm precluded from carrying out my duties.
i got my godson a rosary, a Catholic bible, a Catholic prayer book and some other stuff (that i don't really know what it's for but that was recommended at the Catholic gift shop i went to) and now my godson will never use those things and i don't think he's ever even seen them since the day of his baptism.
i know i should feel happy and relieved of this responsibility but i am very upset. i swore up and down i would do this right. if i had it to do over again i'd not have become a godmother in the Catholic church because it's true that this is hard for me and i don't really understand it and i feel kind of like i'm going thru everything like a blind person, not really knowing or understanding what to do but i did the research and found out what i needed to do and put aside my own values and beliefs and now i can't even do the right thing.
and now my godson can't really be a Catholic and that is partially my fault because it is my job to make sure he is one.
i told her that he can never take communion now and she said he still can and i told her that's against the Catholic tradition and she doesn't even care. she said God doesn't care for these traditions and that my GS can still take communion.
so tell me, how the %^#$%$# am i supposed to do this right when my GS's mom is willing to flip the bird at her own tradition?! how am i supposed to raise my GS to respect it? i am literally in tears here, i don't know what to do. i want to do the right thing and i don't know how i can now. i can't send him to CCD without her knowing about it and i don't think it would be right to go behind her back anyway but it feels very wrong to me not to fulfill this duty. it doesn't even matter if it's her fault, it's me who failed.

Calimama replied: DH is godfather to his nephew and doesn't do ANY church related things with him either. He's out here and the nephew is in IL and as bad as it sounds, we have very little to do with his life. My point being don't feel bad for not being able to fulfill your "duties" because it's just as much the mothers duty as your own. You didn't fail because you're not allowed to take him. Who knows maybe one day he'll decide on his own that he wants to join a church.

CantWait replied: I'm sorry Jennifer. It's not you that failed at all. It's just the mom that's obviously changed her mind about how she'd like her son raised.

Robbie was baptised, but because he didn't attend catholic school he has not had his first communion, and probably will not have his confirmation either.

All you can do is be there for any questions he might have.

redchief replied: We've discussed this before, and I know you and I disagree on your level of responsibility here. Hey, I'd be the first one to throw in and say your godson needs a spiritual leader as he grows, but as I said before, it's total hypocrisy on your part to mentor him into something you don't believe in. I'd say at this point in both your relationship with the boy's mother and your relationship with the boy that your best bet would be to be a good moral guide to him. You don't have to range beyond your own system of beliefs to set a good example and show him the right way to live. God bless you.

Cece00 replied:
I have to agree with Ed here.

kimberley replied: i am a little shocked how different the Catholic church seems to be in the US. here, you CANNOT be a Godparent unless you are Catholic. you can have a Christian stand up as a witness but the child must have one Catholic Godparent. as Ed said, it is hypocrisy.

as for your dilemma, my advice to you is remember that life is about perception. if you believe you failed and hold yourself and the world to this unrealistic ideal of constant success, you will never be happy. life changes, people change.. if you fight that, you will lose. accept your friend's decision and move on. it is her right as the child's parent to make choices as she sees fit.. whether they are right or wrong.. you have to respect that.

look at it this way, the Vatican, Canada and most of the rest of the world will NEVER recognize you as a Godmother, so you cannot fail at something you are not. i don't mean that offensively, just honestly.

gr33n3y3z replied:
It is that way here

cameragirl21 replied: Kimberley, my GS does have a Catholic godparent--his GF who is also his uncle who got his own daughter thru CCD and communion but doesn't seem to care if my GS lives or dies.
recognition aside, the papers say that i'm the GM and now i can't do what i'm meant to do.
and if i had known this from the very beginning i'd not have agreed to be the GM because i'd not have made a promise i knew i couldn't keep but the agreement between my GS's mom and myself was that it would be my decision and thereby my responsibility and i think the only reason she suddenly changed her mind is because she doesn't want the inconvenience (and the cost) of CCD and communion.
which is a dumb reason IMO.
oh, and Ed, thanks for the blessing, God bless you too.

cameragirl21 replied: and also, to everyone who is calling this hypocrisy, i am NOT a hypocrite and i deplore hypocrisy but i made a promise, that is the bottom line.
in my religion, a commitment you make to a person is considered higher than any commitment you made to God so while most Jews would not regard my being a GM in the Catholic church highly, they'd also say that i must keep my promise regardless of my beliefs.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Well Jennifer...look at it this way. You swore an oath to help raise your GS in a particular faith and manner... and you did your part by trying. You did everything you were supposed to do... but in the end, mom trumps over godmom. You did not fail.

Just because someone doesn't go to Catholic school doesn't mean they can't receive communion or confession etc.... it just means that the parents or godparents need to arrange it with the church as opposed to the parents receiveing a note about it from school.

If you continue to prove yourself to be a good role model to your GS, you will have been successful. Being a Gmother isn't about giving the child the "knowledge"... but rather to give the child "morals and values" according to the doctrine. Rather than giving him a bible and a rosary, give him a religious story book and a nice chain with a small cross pendant. The physical things aren't the most important... netierh is the education... what's most important is the nurturing of the child, as Catholics would. Keep that in mind, and you have your success.

CantWait replied:
I think that all Kimberley was getting at Jennifer is that in the catholic religion, both GodParents have to be catholic. You can't have one catholic and the other not.

kimberley replied: yes, Marie, that is what i was saying. thank you.

Jennifer, i stand firmly in my opinion that you cannot make a promise in a faith you do not practice. you quote what a promise means in your faith... well, then you are imposing your beliefs on a child of a different faith and still not meeting that promise.. kwim?

and the papers are meaningless as far as i am concerned. write to the Pope and ask if you can be Godparent as a non-catholic.. it is not accepted... period. Just because some US churches bend the rules doesn't mean it is accepted, so there is no obligation on your behalf.

it is nice you want to do the right thing and honor your word, but it's naive to think you can change other people just because you don't think what is happening is right. acceptance is important in life.

Cece00 replied:
If you believe that, then fine, but I just think you should know that NO WHERE in any catholic literature does it say the godmother is responsible for making sure the godchild goes to CCD. You are putting this pressure on yourself unneccessarily.

cameragirl21 replied: well, then maybe i don't understand because i was under the impression that the role of a godparent is to make sure the child is raised in the Catholic church...the term sponsor literally means i am sponsoring the Catholic church on my godson's behalf.
anyway, i discussed this with a friend and i guess she put it best, she said, "when the parents drop dead then you will step up to the plate but until then, you'll just have to live with whatever decisions they make no matter how wrong they feel to you."
so i guess that is what it is although i still feel inclined to try to present all this to my godson's dad and see if he'll see it my way, even though i know it's a dumb idea because i'm friends with his mom, not dad.
at any rate, i don't think it's fair for anyone to say that i am not really his godmother because the thing is i have been there for him since day one. his godfather, who is a Catholic that sent his daugther thru CCD and communion has not done sh*t for him. he's never spent a single Christmas or Easter with my GS, and i've seen him at one, ONE of my gs's birthday parties and i don't remember him saying one word to my GS at that party, not one word. i got him his bible and rosary and prayer book and baptism outfit and shoes and he'd have none of those things if not for me. so in all fairness, i feel i've done my duty even though i'm not a Catholic and i've never tried to impose my beliefs on him or turn him into a Jew...in fact, he doesn't even know that i'm Jewish. at least i haven't told him, if he does know it certainly didn't come from me.
i'm the one who's on the phone regularly with archdiocese of Miami and my gs's godfather doesn't even know that there IS an archdiocese of Miami so if the pope would not accept me as my gs's GM then i feel he'd be making a mistake.
i have tried every which way to make this right despite my own beliefs and i'm mainly upset because my gs's mom sprung this on me at the last minute...our agreement was that i'd arrange for his CCD and communion. had i known that she would be against it then i'd not have agreed to be a gm because i'd know that i can't carry out the duties in the end so why take on the responsibiliity.
also, my gs's two older brothers both have Catholic godparents who don't even acknowledge that my gs's brothers are alive today so i don't think it's fair to say that i can't be a good gm because of this. i think i have done a good job. i am only failing because my gs's mom is making it impossible for me to succeed and not because i am not a Catholic.
just to add that i am not trying to argue, i just feel the need to express how i feel about this because i am very upset about this whole thing and also because some of you with whom i've spoken to in private know that religious differences are a bit of a point of a contention in my life due to a situation. that's all.

skinkybaby replied:
I agree with redchief. Maybe I'm missing something

kimberley replied: Jennifer, i am sorry you are upset by what i said. i never meant to imply you are not a caring role model in the child's life, but in my faith, as i have lived and breathed it every single day of my life, you will never don the traditional name and role of Godparent because you cannot be one if you are not part of the faith. nor have i said there aren't any bad Catholics (as in the GF).. there are plenty of undesirable people in all faiths.

i would never dream of taking on such a role in your faith because i don't know enough about it to properly teach a child how to live by it. children learn more by example than words. i feel that i would be making a mockery of a belief system i don't fully understand. you seem offended that people who have practiced Catholicism their entire lives don't agree with your involvement.. again, i see your beliefs superceding that of actual Catholics, so how can you propose to raise the child in our faith?

i agree with Cece, that you are putting this stress on yourself unnecessarily. even if the parents pass, being the Godparent no longer makes you responsible for the child.. the laws have changed and whoever is written in the will or next of kin, will assume custody.

cameragirl21 replied: Kimberley, i'm not upset by what you said i'm just upset that anyone would question my being the godmother when i really have done all the things expected of me and more, that's all. i understand your faith is very important to you and you're sticking by the sacrament and all but i feel i've been much more of a godparent to my gs than his godfather who IS a Catholic so i feel it's unfair for anyone to write me off as a godparent just because i don't share the same faith. the fact that i'm Jewish is just a convenient excuse for his mom when she says she doesn't want to do this...if i were a Catholic but one who doesn't go to church every Sunday then she'd use that excuse and if she didn't have that excuse she'd find another one. the fact is she doesn't want to do this and i guess since she is his mother then she doesn't have to have an excuse, it's her decision BUT it's not what she and i agreed to when i agreed to take on the role of GM.
if God forbid, his parent should pass away there is no one else besides me, that has already been made clear to me. of course the last thing i want is for that to happen but what my friend meant when she said what she said was that my duties as a godparent really only come in when the parents are gone, or at least that is what she thinks.
i'm certainly not planning or expecting for that to happen. anyway, i feel this topic is upsetting people so maybe i should just let it go.
i'm just very upset by this and i felt the need to vent, that's all. sorry if my doing so upset anyone.

gr33n3y3z replied:
oh you can have one and the other it just one does have to be Catholic

cameragirl21 replied:
yes, exactly, that is what the archdiocese told me also--that as long as one of the godparents is a practicing Catholic the other can be an atheist for all they care. however, you are supposed to be listed as a witness, not a sponsor. my gs's mom found a church that didn't ask many questions so both myself and his GF are listed as sponsors.
when my GA found out about this she completely flipped and thought that this would invalidate the baptism and that all Jews would be blamed for this oversight by the entire Catholic community. the thing is, my GA grew up in Moscow and went thru numerous pogroms.
at any rate, she asked someone she knows who is a practicing Catholic who said that this does NOT invalidate the baptism.
so all's well, or so i hope.
other than the fact that my godson won't be going to CCD.

gr33n3y3z replied: it all comes down to what the mother and father say goes
you really have no say in the matter.
Since the brother is the catholic its his responciably to raise him that way
you have no say bc your not a Catholic I'm sorry but thats the way it is
See I'm going through what your going through I'm not catholic but my hubby and children are.
We had both GP's for our children One a Catholic and one not the non catholic has no power in the matter its just a name Witness in the eyes of the church but to us it has meaning to us.

ediep replied: Being that my dad is a deacon in the atholic church, I have a few things to add....

1- in the Catholic Church, one Godparent must be a practicing catholic. the other one does not have to be.

2- The responsibility of a Godparent is to make sure the child is raised Catholic, if something were to happen to the parents, it has no legal value at all. It is not a guardian, and will not hold up against a will. In order for soemone to take full responsibility of a child after the parent dies, the parent needs a will made by a lawyer.... a baptismal certificate will not be enough

So, if the godmother is trying to get the child to go to CCD, even though it is not what the parent wishes... this is not the responsibility of a godmother.

cameragirl21 replied:
so how can i make sure my gs is raised Catholic if i can't send him to CCD?
or are you saying this only becomes an issue once the parents are no longer living?
so what is my role then while they are living? i spend every Christian holiday with my godson except St Paddy's day because my gs is not irish and does not celebrate it.
but i'm with him every Christmas and Easter.
and btw, your first point is exactly what i was trying to say--my gs's godfather is a catholic and i am not so that does not mean i'm not his godmother.

ediep replied:
it is not your responsibility unless the parents are not living.
your role while they are living is to ASSIST them in raising a Catholic child by being a good Catholic yourself or setting moral examples, but not by forcing him into CCD

cameragirl21 replied:
ok, well that actually makes me feel much better because it means i am not failing after all.
also, when he was 4 and we went to the Miami Seaquarium for Easter and his mom told him to lie and say he was 2 (my godson has always been really small for his age and could have easily passed for a 2 year old) so she could get free admission for him i told her that it's not good to teach him to lie about his age because it does not teach him about the importance of honesty. so i hope that's an example of setting good moral values as a godmother.
thanks, Edie, i really do feel much better now.

amymom replied: I don't want to bore anyone with the Canon Law... but a child only needs ONE Catholic Godparent. If the family would like two than the other MUST be baptised and is called a witness. In TRUTH what you are Jennifer is a good friend to that boy and witnessed the sacrament that brought him into the Catholic Church. But I am not saying that you caused an error, just bad advice was gotten at that church.

If the parents are unwilling to continue his education in the Faith you are stuck. I feel for you. I have trouble with my Godson and his links with Catholocism and he is 35 years old and a father himself.

CCD is not a requirement to be a good Catholic. Your job (IMO) right now is give him a good moral example, to continue to celebrate Holy Days with him. I might suggest further if you want to plant seeds for him, remember his baptism date, like you do his birthday. Go to a Catholic gift shop, purchase some prayer cards (if you need some resources I have really good ones.), mail him a reminder EVERY year of what he gained at his Sacrament. I could go on but won't bore you. I honor you for your wish to keep a commintment you believe you made. But alas, you did not commit to raise him a Catholic, only to assist the parents in doing so. CCD is NOT a requirement!

Let me know if you want me to bombard you with my resources and suggestions of items to give him. Boys love the stories about the Saints and what they went through... War, blood and guts all those things.

kimberley replied: yes only one Godparent must be Catholic.. but anyone else who stands up for the child is considered a Christian Witness, not a Godparent. definition of witness is clear, someone who observed the child being baptized.. that's it.

the comment that "the other (Godparent) can be atheist for all they care" is completely ridiculous.. again, it shows you do not have the knowledge of our faith to take on such a role as Godparent. even a witness MUST be Christian!!

Jennifer, i do like you but disagree wholeheartedly with many of your comments here. if you want to take a positive role in the child's life, i applaud that and believe you will do a good job... as for being his Catholic sponsor and guide... you are not one because you clearly do not understand our faith.

cameragirl21 replied:
that's a great idea, Anne Marie, i remember his baptism date, it's 18 March, 2001...i could maybe celebrate that day with him instead. really, a very good idea.
and yeah, maybe you could send me some info on where i can get books and other info for him, maybe bombarding him with knowledge is what i'll have to settle for...it's just i really wanted him to go thru CCD.
but you have given me some food for thought, thanks, and if you feel like it, feel free to send me some info via pm on other stuff i can get him to expand his knowledge.
thanks.

redchief replied: I'm going to try and wrap as many of the issues brought forth here as possible in this reply.

I believe that a big problem we're having here is one of semantics. The term godmother was bestowed to Jennifer when she stood as witness to the baptism of her godson. There is a religious and lay translation of godparent. To Jennifer's friend, and herself, she is the boy's godmother. To the Church, since she is not a confirmed catholic, she is registered as a witness. It should be noted that there is no requirement in Catholic Catechism for a "godparent" or "godparents." There is a requirement that there be a Catholic sponsor for all who shall enter the faith. Godparents are named because when infants are baptized there must necessarily be follow-on education so that the child may learn and grow in the grace he or she receives in Baptism. Because of this additional responsibility, adult sponsors of infants are bestowed with the name "godmother" or "godfather." So, Jennifer is correct in stating that she took an oath to see to the education of her godson, as did his godfather. My issue here will be addressed in the next paragraph.

CCD is the study of Catholic Catechism and doctrine based upon scripture and the religious traditions of the Church. For young people not in private catholic school this usually consists of one to two hours per week of catholic education. Now to the point. There is no way that a child can learn all he or she needs to learn about the faith in this short period of time. Most of catholic education and morals originate in the home and are reinforced through CCD. Let me emphasize, there is no way that any CCD program can give a full and complete catholic education. This is why Jennifer can't be expected to go through with her promise to educate the child in the catholic faith. She doesn't understand it or believe it herself, and therefore can't assist in helping her godson understand catholic dogma and beliefs.

Again, I had no intention of hurting anyone's feelings, or causing confusion, but the truth of the matter is that this whole situation is confusing and obviously causes Jennifer emotional pain, because she feels she has not upheld her end of the oath she gave. My argument is that Jennifer is incapable of upholding this oath without herself first studying and becoming catholic. This was what I meant by "hypocrisy." It was not meant to be taken as a lack of desire or will to fulfill a promise, but to bring forth the impossibility of doing so within her current mindset.

cameragirl21 replied:
Kimberley, i'm not trying to argue with you but just wanted to clarify that it was the archdiocese of Miami who said that the other godparent can be an atheist...their words, not mine.
in fact all my comments here with regard to rules and such come from either priests or the archdiocese, i would not presume to know any of this on my own nor would i make such comments based on my own ideas or thoughts. this was all info i got directly from the archdiocese AND a handful of priests at various churches whose advice i sought.
i like you too, Kimberley and i always have.
also, i do not presume to understand or know your faith, that is what i meant in my original post about how i feel like a blind person trying to feel my way around and that is why i'd probably not agree to be a godmother if i had it all to do over again...not because i don't love my godson because i do but rather because i admit that i don't understand your faith well enough to attempt such a thing, especially since he has parents who are not practicing and don't have much respect for the traditions of your faith, such as not taking communion unless you've had your holy communion, etc.

amymom replied: Jennifer,

www.leafletonline.com is my biggest resource for my own children's religious gifts and my CCD kids too. Here are two books you would enjoy reading with him. They are basic Catholic tenets, and interesting Activity books. And there is not too much doctrine in there. These are things I think you can relate to... Angels and Heaven & Hell.

Guardian Angels

The Great Battle for Heaven

You will find many things on this site, but these are two small books you could give him on March 18th (just around the corner). with a small card from you that says.... Remembering your special day.

Good Luck

grapfruit replied: Jennifer, don't dispair, it doesn't sound like his family are practicing Catholics. I myself "grew up" a Catholic (not practicing), I even went to CCD, made my first Communion, etc. I never did go through Conformation.

For almost a year now, I've been attending a Methodist church regularly. They've opened their arms to myself, my brother and cousin (all "Catholics"). Just b/c he isn't being raised a Catholic, doesn't mean that he can't be a good Christian. There are other faiths that don't believe in such strict traditions and welcome people from all walks. To be honest, I could tell you very little about the Catholic church, only b/c it hasn't been a part of my life .