let's talk about bullying....

cameragirl21 wrote: Ok, so I just finished a book yesterday, written by a woman who was bullied really badly as a child. I literally read it in one sitting, bought it yesterday afternoon and finished it late last night. I have witnessed kids being bullied and wasn't always the nicest kid myself but I had no idea bullying on that sort even existed, I am still reeling from reading it.
It got me thinking--why do you think there is so much bullying going on? Do you think that some kids are just easy targets? I remember during one summmer in between school years, babysitting a 12 year old girl who was bullied...she didn't tell me she was bullied but I knew some other kids in her class that told me so afterward. I have to admit, and this is so NOT to say that all kids who are bullied deserve it but I could see why this girl was bullied, she was a total brat and it takes a lot for me to say that about a kid.
The topic has me really curious lately, remember I have a degree and an interest in psychology so occasionally I need to feed my brain with these sorts of things. I asked a friend of mine who is really smart why she thinks there is bullying in school and she says that in nature there is always a heirarchy, we see it in the animal kingdom and in order for there to be a top dog there also has to be an underdog so the group unconsciously seeks out a likely scapegoat. She says that children are essentially a copy of what we see in the animal world where someone has to be on the bottom for the person on top to stay on top and that the group wants to be as close to the top as possible so they help keep the underdog down and so the cycle continues.
I also think that bullying comes from insecurity and a need to feel better. For instance, and I am really ashamed to admit this but I recall that when I went to college, I was very slender but then beer, frat parties and midnight pizza dinners quickly turned into the freshman 15, er, make that 30. I still wasn't fat but I wasn't the skinny size 2 that I was entering college and the same went for my good friend, Noliko. There was one girl in our econ class who was morbidly obese and at some point, Noliko and I started giggling when we saw her and stuff like that. I realize now that we only did that because we were insecure about our own weight gain...had I been the same skinny girl I was when I first came to college, I'd never have done that, I'd probably not have even noticed that obese girl but since I was insecure about my own weight gain, I saw her as someone who at the very least, was worse off than I was. I didn't bully her to her face because after all, this was college not grade school but I do wonder if Noliko and I would have been more cruel had we still been grade school kids with a slight weight problem.
Your thoughts on the topic?

PrairieMom replied: I was bullied, and it was pretty bad. the kids would scrunch duct tape into my hair on the buss, get off at my stop and push me around, things about me were written on bathroom walls. I was called names, shunned, jokes were played on me. Things were stolen from other kids and put in my desk to try to get me into trouble... you name it.
Here is the thing. Someone HAS to be at the bottom of the social order. that's all there is to it. We all have to learn to deal with other people, and children experiment with how to treat people to learn, just like learning anything. trial and error. Unfortunately, its usually one or two people that are seen as "weak" that get experimented on. I was one of them.
I can look back now tho and see how it has made me a stronger person. It has given me a unique way of dealing with people. In a way I think I am blessed to have been through all those bad times. I would way rather have been picked on, and made stronger and grown , than to be the bullies, who, when I see them now, are still stuck in their own ways, even 15 years later.

cameragirl21 replied: Tara, firstly, I'm really sorry you had to go through all that.
I'm wondering, though--how do you think schools should handle it? In other words, what do you wish your teachers, principal, etc had done or do you think they shouldn't have done anything at all?

Crystalina replied: I agree that some kids do it out of insecurity but that is not the only reasons. They get it from their parents who sit around and "chat about the neighbors". I know we all do it but some people take it to the extreme and don't care if their kids hear it. I certainly DO care if my kids hear me talking mean about someone (while I'm driving is the exception of course ) but I never talk about people in a nasty way where my kids can hear and especially if my kids know the person. We all have our opinions about someone for whatever reason but some people take it a step further and are downright nasty. They in turn raise kids who are downright nasty. There's no real science behind it IMO. It's just pure ignorance. There are parents who are confronted about their bully child and let it go in one ear and out the other because to acknowledge the problem would mean to parent the child and they just don't have the time for that. If your child has an insecurity deal with it to make them feel better. Don't ignore it. I agree that some bullies are insecure but I also believe that most are just nasty children who need to be held responsible for what they do. In other words they need a swift kick with a big boot.

MommyToAshley replied: I don't believe for a moment that it has anything to do with a heirarchy or mimicing the animal kingdom. It's a learned behavior. Just look at a group of preschoolers... a preschooler walks into a room of strangers (their peers) on the first day, and immediately play with each other regardless of race, social status, what the person wears or what they look like. None of that stuff matters. We could all really learn something from a room full of preschoolers.

luvbug00 replied: Bullying sure ain't what it used to be, now kids do it over the web on myspace and facebook. I don't think there will ever be an end and the whole subject is just so sad because kids are taking it to the extreme to escape the evil being done to them.

cameragirl21 replied: I'm not saying it's not a learned behavior, Dee Dee, I'm just wondering why it's happening. I have noticed that when you take a group of "popular" people, they all act a certain way but if you take one out of the group and deal with him/her separately, s/he is a completely different person...there definitely seems to be a pack mentality.
I am noticing lately as I talk to more and more people that bullying in school is a very common problem, not just something that happens at a few schools here and there and my question is why...why are some kids being bullied?

lisar replied: Lexi teacher told me the other day that this girl amber has been hitting on her and that he gets on to her about it, but the thing is that lexi will let her do it. Lexi isnt one to put up with this. The teacher told me that he tells Lexi not to put up with it, to come and tell. He basically said not in these words though that he wishes lexi would just knock the mess out of her to make her stop. I havent had a chance to talk to her about it though, cause I have had school. But dh is supposed to talk to her about it tonight.

I am glad the teacher told me though so that I know.

CantWait replied:
You hit the nail on the head with all three of your points. I couldn't agree more.

Mostly though I really do it has to do with one's own insecurities.

I was bullied as a child, I'm now friends with some of those that bullied me. Thankfully, most of us grow up and learn from our behaviours and insecurities.

DVFlyer replied: I think it has to do with testing boundaries (and more deeply control).... but where different people's starting point is is based on genetics and environment- both friends and family. i.e. lower level aggressive kids can be pushed to be more aggressive if they see their friends or family doing it.

I also think there is a evolutionary component to it.... I'm sure there were cavemen that were more aggressive than others.... which delves into the "survival of the fittest" DNA at some level.

In any case, it shouldn't be allowed. I remember being on the playground AGES ago and being pushed or something (don't remember the circumstances), but I ended up on the ground. The teacher that was on playground duty looked over at me and said I "deserved it". I don't remember what I did- maybe I was being a jerk- but back then I thought that was wrong of her to say that.

Now that I'm older, I realize that adults are just children who have been around a long time. There is no "adult" rule that clicks in where older people will adhere to a certain set of guidelines like I assumed when I was younger.

PrairieMom replied:
hard question.
In MY situation, since I was in no dancer of being physically harmed, I think that the adults should just step back and let things play out, but there are clearly times when they would need to step in.
I believe my teachers were aware I was being picked on, for example, they knew I wasn't stealing other childrens stuff, I was clearly a target, but if they had done anything, then it would have given the bullies more fuel to be meaner to me when I was out of the school environment.
I think there is a lot to be said for learning how to deal with stuff on your own.

TANNER'S MOM replied: Well I was bullied quite a bit. Me being raised by a single father, who cared nothing about the latest fashion statement and only about buying what he could afford. Him being the one to put my hair in lop-sided pigtails. Me, being the country girl I was wearing cowboy boots w/ my ballerina dress etc. Then having a name like Melba didn't really help anything!

I think I was bullied b/c they could. I think I was bullied b/c they if like they are the ones teasing then they themselves won't be teased. I think it comes from children being raised to think they are the end all be all and not acceptable to other lifestyles.

I have no idea what can actually be done about it. I do know that it really did shape my life and my education. I hate school, I was smart. Loved to read and learn. But it was hard to go to school w/ only a few friends. It was hard to enjoy going when you knew things were going to be hard when it was time for recess. As I got older I discovered that I was an angry person at so many thing. At my mother who left me, at my father who saw no need to dress me the way I wanted, at the kids who teased me and never got to know the real me. I fought back, and I do mean physically! If they said something about me, I got where I would knock the crap out of them. But that really didn't help anyone but me. B/c then I was labeled the bad kid. The kids that was always fighting and in trouble. In JR high school it was easy to fall into the wrong crowd, simply b/c they are the crowd that is more accepting.

I don't know what can be done other than stopping what you see being done. I know if the teachers at noticed no one ever said anything. I think it starts at home. I think it starts w/ us not judging other people by their looks, race, handicapps, or money. I am guilty of it as an adult. And I need to realize that my children can follow in that foot step!

luvmykids replied: I was bullied too. I was an easy target, when I was in first grade it was just my mom and me, and being poor gave them all kinds of fodder. Once it started, it just snowballed until sixth grade when we moved and I changed schools. I remember the ringleader....she once told me she hoped I got bone cancer and died and another time I was wearing shoes from the drugstore and she said the tread looked like maggots. Didn't take long for that to turn into "Maggot Monica"

In that instance, looking back, she was just a nasty little girl and for some reason (some of it fear) the other kids joined whatever she did. I had nothing in me that made me fight back, so it continued.

I think there are a myriad of reasons behind it, in general I do think it's insecurity...even as adults there are many who seem to feel the need to take someone down in order to build themselves up. I think some of it can come from frustration in other areas too, feeling like they can't control something at home or whatever. In hindsight, this little girl who picked on me had a rotten home life and I think it was one of her coping mechanisms.

As to what should be done, it's hard to say. I don't know what the school could have done other than make sure we were never in the same place at the same time but a great start would have been making her parents aware of it and having some consequences for it.

cameragirl21 replied:
Omg, Monica, how awful!
FWIW, I once knew (as an adult, not a kid) a couple who were not my friends so I didn't know them well, they were friends of a good friend of mine. Anyway, the guy decided to leave his wife, Idk why, he just did and the last words the wife said to him were, "I hope you die of cancer."
Within months, it was she who was diagnosed with cancer....
Words are powerful and they come back to haunt us; I know you don't wish any bad on that girl but I'm sure she got her karma.

mckayleesmom replied: I wasn't bullied in school....at least not to my face.

I was always nice to everyone although there were many times when I should have stuck up for someone instead of keeping my mouth shut. I was definantly afraid of being turned on if I said something.

I remember a kid specifically who I was friends with. He was poorer...as was I, but I disguised it so much better then him. He was super nice, decent looking and a good person. He had a huge crush on me and asked me to a dance. I can never be mean to somebody's face and so I said yes. I really didn't want to go with him because other people made fun of him...although he took it in stride I must say. I was talking to a friend about comming up with an excuse not to go and there was this other girl within earshot...I didn't know she was his cousin and she told him. He confronted me and said I didn't have to go. The worst part was that he was nice and understanding about it which only made me feel like the biggest horses patootie in the world...

And that is not even the worst part.....I had a crush on him back, but I just couldn't emotionally take being an outcast. I wish I was stronger back then, but I wasn't.

I never participated in bullying, although I am guilty of saying not so nice things behind people's backs...and gossipping.

I truly believe that if 10 people are bullying one kid..chances are that alone...7 of those kids are probably good kids, just afraid to be next victim.