ideas on this...

mummy2girls wrote: Ok i posted this a while back.... so i am just touching base again and seeing if there is any fresh ideas out there.

Jenna has been struggling with her emotions and temper lately. Last night we took away the Ipad and told her it will be gone until she can earn it back and it may take months before she even sees it again. And she knows this. Shes upset but she told us she understands and will be better. So we shall see.

She will throw fits... For example last night she was doing her home assignment the speech pathologist assigned to her. The clip holding the paper together came off and she asked marcus to help. he helped but didnt put it on the proper way and she got upset. She started to kick the couch , yell and act like a 2 year old. Marcus gave her a warning that if she ontinues with the tantrum she will get the paper taken away and she continued so away they went. Which that spiraled into a nasty fit. We threw her in the tub gave gave her a fast bath, threw her into her room. when she calmed down he went in there and had a talk with her... the end result Ipad goes away and she earns it back.

She has been doing these fits when things dont go her way. Its like she has a small fuse. We know that the ipad was an expensive gift and such and someone like this that acts this way doesnt get it. So we realize that and took it away. and she needs to earn it back. With the fits she has done we are shooting for 3 months and thats being generous...LOL

What other way do we try to kick this behaviour in the butt? I have looked it up andit says it usualy comes from the parenting. And that is what we cant 100 percent control.... that the parent cant feed into it etc etc etc. And we dont. If we notice one coming on we say.... Jenna if you continue with this tantrum thsi will happen.... and sometimes she will stop sometimes she wont. So we follow through. we walk away and ignore the fit even if its in a store or wherever! BUT her father doesnt do this. She goes to her dads every weekend for the whole weekend. And he recently moved in with his sister and her family. And they all have told me we cant handle her meltdowns so we just give in. So she knows that if she throws them there she gets what she wants. And she tries here with no success of course. So its hard to really stop that 100 percent. I have now threatened no sleep overs if this continues... They need to follow through with teh way we do it here... But that a wholenother story:(

Any ways... we are to a point where we are going to strip her room of everything except her bed, bedding, and dressers and clothes and she has to earn everything back.

And to be honest and i hate to admit this.. Im alot like this. I can get upset if something doesnt go my way and have reacted with an adult tantrum before and im sure she witnesses a couple and im sure she learning it from me. So for her to change it I have to show her I can too.....

luvbug00 replied: Like i stated before in my post. Mya is like this too. At her dads there are no rules and she can be very.....

However at My house and in my presence she doesn't act that way. If her dad wants to put up with her behavior and not correct it that's his problem. She bosses them around and if he wants to be treated like that then that is his problem...

In My house she doesn't act that way because I don't let her. ..
So in essence she is two different kids depending on the home she is in. you or I can do nothing about how their fathers choose to raise them when not in our presence. However we can maintain control in our own homes.

coasterqueen replied: Shelly, forgive me right up front as my mind has become jello mush these days, but did you say if Jenna has any type of sensory issues that have been established or looked at in any way? For me, as dealing with a child who has sensory issues, I have a much different approach than most who don't have kids with these issues. So I would like to know that before I would give you my approach. I have to have different ways of dealing with things when it comes to Kylie and Megan due to one has sensory problems, and the other one does not. Let me know and I can bounce around my ideas.

julesmom replied: Could it be that school is overwhelming for her? If she is aware she has some difficulties with school, etc. maybe she is trying so hard and just gets to a point she explodes.
I know with my dd, she has APD and is dylexic. She doesn't want anyone in her class to know she can't keep up, so she spends alot of her time faking it. Her teacher is surprised she isn't giving me a harder time at home, considering how frustrating her day must be.
Just an idea.
As for taking the ipad away for 3mths, my kids would forget there even was an ipad after it being gone for a couple weeks.

mummy2girls replied:
yes i agree ..But not all kids react to things like this the same. Jenna has always been a stubborn one and if she is getting away with murder somewhere she will test it to a breaking point somewhere else. I just need some ideas on how to get this licked at our place.

mummy2girls replied:
No she doesnt have sensory issues like Megan does. Jenna sees an occup[ational therapist due to her droolinga nd eating issues. But thats it. and she has speech problems and need physical therapy for her poor muscle tone. But thats about it...

MommyToAshley replied: I agree with the others, it does sound like there is more going that is causing her to act out. Does she always get upset around a specific person or place?

mummy2girls replied:
no school is going fine, no overwhelming. She is actually above the rest of her class and she is bringing home a's and b's. She has no issue at all with the school work and where she is and should be....

Jenna is testing her boundaries and its just toa point now where this needs to be kicked in teh butt!!!! or her...HAHAHAHA

mummy2girls replied:
she gets upset with teh dayhome kids if they are bugging her. she seems tp think because she is the oldest she can be bossy pants... She goes to her dads for friday night all day sat and is back sunday. Sunday night she is exhausted because he still believes that if you keep the child up late they will sleep in... NOT TRUE!!!! She never does so she is tired which sets her temper off and has a short fuse. Then she tests us because of what happens at her dads... and it takes till tuesday /wednesday ish till she realizes she wont get away with it here and is fine until she goes back to dads.

I just feel the temper is getting toa point where this cant continue at all!

moped replied: Time for some tough love?

Also, I think you and her dad need to be on the same page big time - sleep is so important for children and behavior!!!!!

mummy2girls replied:
I have gone through this with him so much its pathetic! I have always told him that weekends she is in bed by 830pm and weeknights she is by 730... But he keeps saying this and also toward sthe tantrums... She gets what she does at your place but at mine it dads. Dad is going to spoil her and etc etc etc. GRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!

Yes its time for tough love:(

coasterqueen replied: Sorry, I'm not help them. I know with sensory kids you have to treat them differently than you normally would and tough love can make things worse.

I have NO expertise in blended families......I can't figure out my husband's blended family and how it works. IMO if you don't find some way for you and Aaron to get on the same page I'd go to the courts and ask for someone to help get you both on the same page. JMO, though. The only person that gets hurt here is the child and if it takes a court to make Aaron care enough, then so be it, IMO.

PrairieMom replied: ITA about getting on the same page with her dad. How frustrating. But she seems to be getting mixed messages big time. No wonder she is having a hard time. Is there maybe a way you can stretch out her visits so there is a longer time home with you? She's gotta just be spinning in circles .

msoulz replied: What about ignoring her completely when she has her tantrums? I know it is hard to do but I hear it works sometimes!

cameragirl21 replied: I actually have some extensive experience with this--when I was still in college, I babysat for a family who had two adopted children, adopted from different families and their son, who was turning 9 when I first starting working for them had a family history of schizophrenia and alcoholism...they had to lock up their liquor cabinets before he reached double digits because he craved alcohol and would sneak it...he got kicked out of the fancy private school he went to because he wouldn't behave, was sent to a school for kids with ADHD and even they couldn't handle him so he went on to a school for kids with serious psychiatric problems. Their daughter was 5 and an absolute dream.
I get that kids act differently for babysitters v parents BUT these parents would leave the country for weeks at a time on a regular basis and I was these kids' primary caretaker at that time...I drove their carpool to school, took their son to his weekly shrink appointment, signed off when teachers sent home notes saying his behavior was bad, bought the kids Halloween costumes, threw them extravagant parties, etc...this was not the usual babysitter/child relationship.
Anyway, the kid threw tantrums and behaved like a total jerk for any reason or for no reason, if it was his sister's turn to ride in the front seat, if he didn't get to enter the car from the door he liked (right vs left) if ther popcorn at the movie theater had too much butter, if he was told he had to take a shower, etc.
I witnessed one tantrum before I laid down the law...this took place at the movie theatre and I, as a college could was NOT going to be embarrassed like that in public so I learned how to control his behavior and in fact, his mother marveled that I was the only person who could get him to behave...mind you, both kids, but especially the boy begged their parents to let them come and live with me, they made it obvious they preferred me to the parents so it's not as if I was mean or anything like that.
Bottom line--perhaps Jenna has picked up some bad behaviors from you and that is genetic but if I could get around this boy's serious psychiatric problems, I would say Jenna is a walk in the park by comparison. Oh, and the parents gave in to every tantrum so there was no consistency but he always behaved for me.
How did I do it? Well, first, I laid down the law and made sure it was clear. I made my expectations known upfront and explained what the consequences would be upfront if my expectations were not met. For example, our convo would go like this:
Me: We (he, his sister, and I) are going to the zoo, are you going to behave?
Him: yes
Me: I will not tolerate a single outburst, tantrum, or backtalk, do you understand?
Him: yes
Me: And there will be crowds of people there and you will not start any trouble with them either, right?
Him: No, I won't
Me: Because if you don't behave, we are going right back home and I'm dropping you off with Paula (their live in housekeeper with whom he had a rather rocky relationship) and your sister and I will go back to the zoo by ourselves, do you understand?
Yeah, he understood. And Paula, that's another issue--This boy, I'll call him Jack, would constantly call her a stupid scum or various racial epithets (she was a dark skinned Mexican woman) and I nipped that in the bud right away, even though his parents didn't care when he disrespected her. My rule? You say anything mean to Paula and you are apologizing. He was apologizing several times an hour but he got the message by day 2 and all went smoothly between them from there on out, at least while I was in charge.
So bottom line, you have to be very strict and stern and you can't waiver because they will test you. For instance, if Jack didn't get his way, he'd announce, "I'm not going to Sunday school tomorrow" and his parents would cave...my response to this was simply, "you wanna bet?"
I'd say lay out the rules and if she's not having this problem at school then it's likely she does well in a structured environment so try to recreate that at home. Lay down the rules upfront and let the punishments be known and stand your ground no matter what. For example, an outburst today means no tv time at all today, do it again tomorrow and lose the tv for a week, etc.
As for the Ipad, as I've said before, I thought it was not an appropriate gift under the circumstances but taking it away for 3 months is imo ineffective because she will likely forget she ever had it. Take it away for a day for an outburst and tell her that another outburst means it's no longer hers, it's yours until you say otherwise.
I always say that tantrums are for toddlers...anyone older than that can only get away with it if they have received some very bad news, such as a family member in the hospital, etc. No one likes a hysterical woman and a hysterical child is not much better. It's a serious problem for the future imo and not just for you but for her and if I were you, I'd not even focus on what goes on at her dad's, lay down the law at YOUR HOUSE and make sure she gets it. She's testing you because you are waivering, it's normal childhood behavior to test their boundaries.
I'd lay it out in writing and make a chart with rules and punishments so she has visual reinforcement of what is expected of her and what will happen if she fails to meet these expectations.

luvbug00 replied: getting on the "same page" is not always going to happen as in my case. It's better then it used to be but still huge differences in parenting style. HUGE.

Here's how I handled mya at that age. I use the "earn it back" method.
she does something bad and she looses that toy/privilege ..

wanna abuse the tv time? well the tv is now gone..
being a smart mouth? itouch..gone
throwing a tantrum? dinner in your room grounded the next day (no tv, outdoor playing, just you and your crayons kid)

If she wants to earn things back she has to contribute to the home for a week. dishes, trash, help with the dogs..etc.
or
show me in some way that she understands what she did wrong and is sorry. for me just saying sorry doesn't cut it. Mya learned very early to say what she did and why it was wrong. "mom I'm sorry for throwing a fit about not staying up later. I know 8 is my bedtime."

jcc64 replied: I think the different house, different rules thing is very confusing for kids, and though I think you have to set limits and let her know that her behavior is unacceptable, I'd be focused on getting to the bottom of what's causing her to lose control to that extent, rather than just focusing on the behavior itself, kwim? I think it sounds like she's really struggling with something far bigger than whatever the inciting incident may be--it's not REALLY about the paper clip, or even the ipad--something's bothering her and she doesn't have the ability to verbalize it, or to even completely understand it herself.
My advice: when she is in a calm moment, try to coax some more information out of her, if possible. Is the move to the aunt's house upsetting her? Her speech issues? It could be anything, and sometimes, it's right under your nose. Corey has been really struggling with anxiety lately, having little 8 yr old anxiety attacks, and after speaking with someone about it, I nailed it down to the fact that she's undergone a tremendous amount of change since Sept: I started a new teaching job that takes me out of the house for much longer than she's used to, her brother moved away to college, and she got moved to a very competitive level of her gymnastics team. Though I missed it, this is a lot of change for a kid to deal with. So, I'm using my own kid as an example to tell you that kids don't deal well with change or frustration, and it comes out in all sorts of socially unacceptable ways, but it doesn't necessarily mean she's being willful, or that you're a bad parent or even doing anything wrong.
One note of caution--taking away an ipad for 3 months is completely ineffective. Kids don't have the ability to retain the cause and effect connection for that long. The punishment has to fit the crime, and though the ipad is an expensive and clearly treasured item in your home, don't give it more importance than it deserves. A week or two at the most, is the longest I think she should lose it and still be able to remember what she did in the first place. Kids' memories are shorter than you think.

mummy2girls replied:
we do that. she starts the tantrums we say if you continue this will happen and then walk away. Its her choice to how she wants to follow through

mummy2girls replied:
we cant just focus on our house as she is at her dads too and we NEED to be on teh same page for things like this. I am not waivering.. we dont let her get away with the tantrums. She will get a consequence, we always follow through and ignore the screaming as well.

We also have a rules chart as well hanging for her to see and such and we have a system with her as well with that.

No taking away the ipad i feel will work because she will not forget about it at all, as Marcus plays with his all the time and she knows about hers. And we are not taking t away for 3 months I just said if it takes 3 months then so be it. And we are doing that. we took it away and said its ours until she can earn it back...

yes tantrums is for toddlers for sure. And she not doing it because WE let her get away with it she does it because DAD does. And its hard to have her go through the no consequence at dads for 2 days to come home and boom it take away. Im not making excuses I just need to get on the same page as aron and I know this and marcus knows this. But does aron think so ... no.

She is testing us yes for sure but she isnt getting away with it. we are strict with her she is just a stobborn kid that will try as much as she can until she cant. Because that what she does at dads... She is testing to see if we fail like dad and give in...So its not us waivering its aron.

mummy2girls replied:
I must of worded it wrong. We are taking it away until she earns it back so if it take 3 months then it does...

BUT aside from that I agree. We feel something is bugging her and we just dont know what. We feel that a part of it is she had me and only me for 4 years and her toys to herself for 4 years and boom i open my dayhoem to kids and she now must share her toys, and then marcus walks into our life then moves in a year later to us getting married 9 months after that to having Breanna 10 months later. She had bea in her life( aron ex... mom of her brother) for 2 years and then boom she is now gone. The move to aunties isnt a thing that woulkd bug her as she is use to dad taking her for sleepovers to aunties and hanging out every weekend he has her. She went through alot of therapy for speech, physical and occupational therapy. to have 3 surgeries in the past 4 years and now goingf roma small classroom with her ABC headstart to a mainstrem class of 25. She doesnt get as much support from TA's anymore being she isnt in the ABC head start. she was at a school from age 3 until age 7 and then switched( her request) to a new school. This all happened in 4 years. She may feel that marcus doesnt love her liek breanna even though he never makes her feel that way. I dont know. We are trying to talk to her and when she is calm but I just cant seem to get anything out of her. We are at apoint where we toss our hands in teh air and go what do we do??

jcc64 replied: That's a whole lot of change to deal with, Shelly. Corey has had far less upheaval in her life, and she's a mess right now, so I can just imagine what a new father/baby/in home daycare/change in school setting, and more would do to her little head.
I'd let her know that you understand that she feels overwhelmed at times, and validate her feelings as much as possible, when she's not in the middle of a massive tantrum, that is. In the heat of the moment, I would simply tell her to go into her room until she can get herself under control, and she can come out once she's ready to act appropriately. That way, you're taking away her audience, but allowing her the space to work out her frustrations. Then, when she's calmed down, much, much later, maybe even the next day, try to get her to verbalize what's underneath it all. Tell her you understand that she's been through a lot of changes over the last few years, and that it can get overwhelming, and you can see how she'd feel upset sometimes and miss her old life. And finally, I would try to leave Marcus out of the disciplining as much as is humanly possible. You handle that, and let her work on building a relationship of trust with him. It takes a long time.