hmmm, anyone else wonder

cameragirl21 wrote: ok, i just had this thought and maybe i'm just losing my mind a bit because i have the flu and have been stuck in the house all weekend and am going a little stir crazy BUT i just saw a commercial for the leapfrog and am wondering--do you think it's possible we're pushing kids to learn too fast?
i know this question probably sounds insane, especially coming from me, as i was born in eastern europe where if you're playing in the symphony or reading Shakespeare by the age of 3 then your parents are considered to be the greatest people around but in light of all these V Smiles and Leapfrogs, could it be that we're too eager to get kids to grow up?
on the one hand we're lamenting that they grow up too fast but on the other, we're eager to get them reading by the age of 4.
not that i'm not knocking education and learning, and don't get me wrong, i'm not really sure how i feel about this but i'm just wondering if perhaps we're not encouraging enough imagination and exploring the world and instead are too eager to get them reading and writing and adding and subtracting....
does this make sense or am i just suffering from cabin fever and a bit of a lost mind...?
ETA--i meant to say "we" as a society, not we as in the PC board or anyone specific.

mom2my2cuties replied: Well - Depends - I do believe a lot in letting my children learn at thier own pace...however the Vsmiles and Leapfrogs are used more as "assistance" type teachers, enhancers if you will, rather than actual teachers.

But I will admit the Keyboard Pro Elmo game that Andrea likes so much has really shown me what she has learned and also been able to help her learn the letters on the keyboard.

CantWait replied: I don't know if we're pushing our kids to learn to quick or not, but I do know that I'm always worried that Anthony doesn't know as many things as some other kids his age.

I also worry because Robbie had a reading problem in school, it only took a few months to correct, and he's an awesome reader now, but none the less he did have a problem.

My2Beauties replied: I think about this sometimes and DH is notorious for saying "Just let kids be kids, they have their whole life to go to school!" My cousin bought Hanna a Leapfrog thing last year for Christmas, it hangs on your regrigerator and all the letters that go with it are all magnets and if you press a button it sings the ABC song. Well at the age of 2 years old, after 3 days playing with that thing hour after hour in the kitchen, Hanna could sing her ABC's flawlessly. I was so impressed, I have her saying her ABC's to everyone now, they can't believe she knows them so well. She can also count to 11 and she knows how to use a lot of technological things like those pocket pets (the computer animated thingies), the Pixel Chicks things, all these virtual toys and she can do whatever she wants with them. Everytime I'm on the computer she says Mommy go to sesamestreet.com BUT.....I also try not to PUSH her too much, because I do want her to be a kid. Hanna is extremely and I mean extremely advanced for her age, the way she talks most people think she's 4 already...so I know she won't ever have issues when she does start going to school so I don't dwell on things. So I think some parents might try to put too much emphasis on it at a very young age...but it just depends on the child. Some children thrive that type of interaction with their parents, other children just want to play with their toys and be kids. I just don't want to push Hanna so much that she knows everything and starts to become bored with school and acts up, she needs to get some type of learning fulfillment from school in order to stay interested. Many many children act out in school because they're not being challenged because they are so intelligent or know what they are being taught and are ahead of the other kids, I don't want that to be Hanna. I was one of those kids but....to my defense this did land me a testing spot for the advanced program which I was in all my life, so the upside to the acting out is some teachers (the good ones) recognize that the students are just bored and thankfully mine did me.

mom2my2cuties replied:
I think every mom worries about this I know I do.

Crystalina replied:
I agree. I was worried about Izabella since she was going to start Kindergarten a year earlier then all the other kids because of her birthday. I was going to keep her out for another year but decided to let her take the kindergarten test just to see where she was and she passed everything. She loves school and she's a smart little cookie. She's very eager to learn.

moped replied: I have the "let kids be kids" attitude, but I also think that any learning toy that they like and show interest in is wonderful - all those v-smile and leapfrog, we have them all and he likes them - soemtimes he likes his trucks better and sometimes he likes those.......technology is a wnderful thing and so is learning about it. By the time jack is in school he is going to know how to use computers and things, it is just the sign of the times IMO.

Nina J replied: I think it's good we have all of this technology that can benefit kids. I don't think it's good when parents push there kids to learn, but I've only met a few people who do that. I have a friend who's forces her kids to sit down and learn there abc's, spell there names..it doesn't sound extreme, but if you met her you'd know it is. She wouldn't be happy if her 3-year-old knew algebra

Emily doesn't really like all these v-smiles or leapfrog things. She has a good vocabulary, I think it's because I always have music on. Emily loves music and sings along to it, but she'll ask what words mean if she doesn't know.

quinnandjacob'smom replied: I guess I have that let kids be kids attitude myself. But then I also feel pressured to turn every experience into some kind of learning activity b/c that's what you read in all the parenting mags and see on tv. I think it's hard to find the right balance. We did buy Quinn the Leap Pad and he had no interest in it whatsoever. I won't buy the baby version they've come out w/ for Jacob either. I think the best toys are the ones that the kids have to "figure out" and are able to be creative with. I would much rather spend my money on Playdough than a dancing Elmo doll. But I do feel that educational toys also have their place and that kids can learn a lot from them. I'm not opposed to buying them or anything. And being a teacher, I know that kids are expected to be pretty computer savvy as they go through elementary school so I see nothing wrong with letting them "play" on the computer, either. Ok, I'm rambling!

gr33n3y3z replied: I know the schools are pushing the kids to fast at least ours is

Hillbilly Housewife replied: I have quite a few vocal opinions about this... but I'm going to shut up after saying what I have to say in this post...

I try not to miss an opportunity for my children to learn while having fun - when we are in the car, we spot the different colored cars, count them, look for different letters on store signs, talk about traffic, and so on and so on...about pretty much any activity we do.

For example, Emilie is just about three... and she knows her alphabet, can count to 25, kows all her colors (even the wierd ones like magenta), is completely fluent in both english and french, can speak and understand almost as much spanish as I can, she can draw very well (detailed drawings, like eyebrows and lashes on the eyes when she draws a face). She can play Mary had a little lamb on the piano. She can use a knife properly when she eats. She can dress herself completely, from head to toe, without any help, other than occasionally to tie her coat if she's having trouble with the zipper.

Zach was and is very much a quick learner, and picks up extremely fast on most things. He is 4... and can read tons of little words both in english and in french...and is smart enough to know that when we are talking french and reading in french, the same alphabet letters have different sounds. He's basically learned double of what a child that knows only one language knows... his vocabulary is double because of the two languages... maybe that has something to do with how smart he is, maybe not.

Do I push my kids? Sure. Of course. Why wouldn't I? I mean, it's not like I make him sit at the table and bark orders at hiim to learn... but I encourage whatever he's doing, and if I spot an opportunity, I grab it. If he takes to it, then great... but if he's not interested, then he's not interested. I don't jsut spend an hour a day with my kids, like unfortunately some parents only spend because of work or whatever... parents who, because they work, don't have the whole day to do laundry, do the dishes, make meals, clean up etc... and who try to cram all that they can into that tiny space of time around dinner time, pressuring the kids... and if they can't spend time with them, guiltily buy them toys to make up for it.

I can't tell you how many times I see parents in a grocery store, for instance, dragging their children around and barking at them to be quiet, to hurry up, to stop fidgeting, to not touch etc... and get frustrated with their kids, resulting in an upset child and an angry parent... and it makes me so ticked off because if those same parents would take the time and energy they put into telling their kid to shut up, and instead would involve their child into looking for the items they need, finding it, putting it in the cart and talking about say, nutrition, or the food groups while they shop for groceries, there would be a heck of a lot less kids acting out in stores, a lot less frustrated parents (who are, no offense, usually the ones who work all week and try to cram their grocery shopping in the evenings or the weekends, when they should relaly be relaxing from their work week and catching up for missed qualty time with their kids...)

Anyways, I'l get off my soap box, since I seem to have gone a bit off topic. I'm a little bitter abot this subject.... can you tell?

Boo&BugsMom replied: Yes, I do think we push kids too much now a days (especially when we are talking about school), HOWEVER, I think many kids are way far more capable of learning things earlier than many people realize. My favorite term has always been "a child only know as much as he/she is exposed to", which I think says a lot.

I also think that most schools do not cater to the whole individual child and different learning styles. Past Kindergarten the physical learner gets lost because school is often catered to the auditory and visual learners. Thus, having labels on children that are not needed or true.

cameragirl21 replied: i hope my post didn't offend you, Rocky, obviously you have very strong opinions on the subject.
tbh, i'm not really sure how i feel about it, on the one hand i'm all for education and learning at every opportunity but i can't help but wonder if on some level maybe we're not rushing things.
for example, my mom had me completely potty trained for day and night by 12 months...my roommate from college, who is from Taiwan was completely potty trained at 10 months. remember, i was born in eastern europe where there were no disposable diapers so parents potty trained early out of necessity...at some point kids are filling the diapers faster than the parents can clean them.
here's it's unheard of to potty train that early yet where i was born it was typical...my mom started the PT process when i was only six months old...can you imagine that happening here?
as i am a diehard environmentalist, some part of me thinks, yeah, potty train them as soon as possible because disposable diapers are not good for the environment and then another part of me thinks, what's the rush?!
it's kind of a catch 22 in my mind, which is why i was curious if anyone else felt this way....

Boo&BugsMom replied: My thinking is, if a child CAN do something, why stop them and hinder their learning process? When a child is challenged (NOT pushed, but challenged) they flourish and excell more than kids who are not. Now, I'm speaking on an academic and independance level. Even if we don't agree with how fast our kids are expected to learn now a days, it's still something we need to conform to an extent in order to not fail our children!

grapfruit replied: First of all, Rocky, that's awesome. I've always wished that I would have had the chance to learn a second language, and by far the easiest time was when you are young (and learning the first!). Unfortunatly it seems like your "learning" ability turns off after awhile. (It at least gets HARDER to learn).

I'm a little unsure on exactally what I feel on this subject. But while I was in the doctors the other day, I did read an interesting article on it. It was actually more on the school aspect (i.e. FIRST graders are bring home 2 hours of homework a night). When it comes to THAT part of learning, I think we (as USA) society is spending too much time on standardized testing. A first grader should not have a ton of homework. They get so stressed out that they don't WANT to learn. They're just kids, you have to make it fun, and give them breaks, not cram it down their throats. The article said that some schools are pushing for kids to know so much, that their doing away with recess. How can they do that???

I'll look for that article to post for you guys...

Boo&BugsMom replied:
That's a good point, and also one reason why I think so many kids are "labeled" now a days that wouldn't be otherwise.

TANNER'S MOM replied: Well I am not sure... I have kids that like to be challenged and I have kids that have to be pushed. I mean Tanner is okay with okay..but when pushed can acheive great. Brittany can acheive great on her own.. and Justin is in the middle but struggles wiht some learning issues.

I would say that there is no right or wrong. It depends on the child and no one knows their children like a momma.

gr33n3y3z replied: I've talked to the teachers at our school and asked them this

Are the kids being pushed to learn answer is Yes
I said then why do you continue to do this answer The State they set up what has to be taught within a certain time and it has to be met.

mind you my kids never had a hard time keeping up to the demand but I see other kids having a hard time and I hear the parents complain about it.

So with those children they are putting them in extra help classes which is nice but at the sametime its making them feel like they are stupid bc they take them out of class to do this.
So is it really a good thing to do this

Maybe bc some of parents are very laxed at home and some of the childern are feeling the pressure at school?

So what is really right?

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I think each situation is different. I think there are many kids whose parents either don't care or are lazy. However, I think some kids are just not considered properly. For example, schools usually cater to the visual and auditory learners. If anyone is like me, a physical learner, they can become far behind if not given the correct tools to learn. I know I am not dumb, I soared once I got to college, ironically. However, for kids who are physical learners we can become very lost in the shuffle if not given those tools.

On a whole, I think it's possible we are not pushing or challenging too fast, but regular classrooms in general are not geared to always meet each individual child's learning needs. It doesn't mean the child is slow or behind, it's just that the class needs to be equiped to deal with more hands on learners. Some teachers are creative enough to do that or given the resources to do so, others are not.

moped replied:
Rocky......I know we have had similar posts about this, but anyways.......
That is a fairly dangerous statement you made..................I am hoping it isn't meant the way it comes off.....that any parent who works guiltily buys toys for their kids - NOT...........I work full time and don't guiltily buy my kids toys...........so i am hoping you meant that differently?????

TANNER'S MOM replied:
I am not sure why but I have closed out of this post after reading this and opened it a few times. I would like to say that whether you work or not has no barrier on how you interact with you kids. Moms who stay at home have the same issues.. Moms who stay at home get bored and are just as short with their kids as us Mom who try to "cram" time in when we can.

Yes I do work and yes I do have to rush at times, Yes I feel guilty for it. But it doesn't mean my kids are less smart than someone else's kids. Or that I am infact bribing them with toys. As a matter of fact I do the opposite. My kids don't watch Tv, Don't play video games etc as alot of other kids do so that we can have quality time. I want to use the time to do homework without being rushed, to play games, watch Tv etc. We have so family time each evening before the TV or any games can be played. And yes I feel guilty, but wouldnt I feel guilty if I didn't work and my child needed something I couldn't provide.

I think every parent thinks maybe the choices they make in staying or working is right. But to me .. it's right for there family but doesn't mean that it's right for everyone.

I know Mom's who work who are very organized and go to the store per say and have a great shopping time with there kids halfing the list, using it has a math lesson, and stay at homes Moms who want to hurry in and out and get back home to have supper on the table before their husbands get home.

I think that it shouldn't matter whether you work or stay at home when it comes to your children's education. I know when it comes to my kids, my working doesn't affect it.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
No you didn't offend me Jennifer, not at all. I just have constant dealing with this, because I'm at odds DAILY about how I raise my children.

I battle it out with my own mother, as well as my Mother-in-Law - both of which do not agree with our parental methods, the values we try to instill in our children, etc etc... like it's important for us to have our children have MANNERS, such as holding the door open for others etc etc... and they are always telling us to let them be, they're just kids.

To me - "let them be, they're just kids" is like telling me to stop teaching them how to live in today's society. And we all know what a crappy society today is... so if I let them be kids and do whatevber they want, and not show them manners etc... then they will grow up to be the little hooligans out on the street now.

I don't think so, Ma.

It's a daily si*t-fling here, so it's a raw subject. But I'm not offended... just frustrated at my own situation.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
Thanks

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
Yes, I meant it differently.

I'm sure all of you know by know that my first language is French, not English, so sometimes what I mean isn't what's written... and thank you for asking for a clarification, I didn't realize my comments came across that way.

I was just thinking about those parents who try to buy their children's love... you know, the parents that are never home for their children, don't have time for them, and to compensate, they think that bringing home the best of the best gift-wise is going to make their children forget the fact that they are never around.

Is that making more sense?

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that you (in general) buy toys for your child because you feel guilty for not spending time with them...heck I bought my own children GameBoy Advances for Christmas, they have the Leapfrog system, they have their own computer games and Playstation games...

And I certainly wasn't trying to turn this into a SAHM vs WOHM debate... I was just trying to make a comparison about the physical quantity of time a parent who works has time to spend with their child vs. a parent who stays at home all day.

moped replied:
One more thing Rocky.....why do you think you have such odd parenting ways - because you teach your kids things? Is that not what a parent does? I don't see anything odd with it. When we are at the store, we talk about colors and how many etc. In the car we talk about the trucks etc etc............is this odd then??? My mother doesn't agree with everything I do either.......

gr33n3y3z replied:
I will have to say I never got bored being home with the kids
bc it doesnt last long and I would never change that.

Since I started working when Katie was in 3rd grade out of the home before I worked with in the home I fell into a job that allowed me to always be home when she or the other kids were not in school bc I always had the same days off.

But I agree Mel weither you work or stay at home it doesnt mean anyones kid is smarter then the other they all have a nice balance

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
I think either you misunderstood my post, or maybe I wasn't clear enough on what I meant... I'm not saying sah parents are better and they have smarter children... not at all.

Mel - I think the part that was misunderstood/miscommunicated is below - and I think I know why. When I wrote that kids of working parents are more pressured, I only meant that because the parents are away all day, they are not home to do the laundry etc that sah parents are sometimes able to do during the day... so more often than not, working parents have to do their meals, cleaning, laundry, shopping etc etc etc once they get home from work, or once the kids are in bed, and that the smaller window of time to do all this stuff tends to cause a bit of rush on some things, and that sometimes it may be easier to turn on the tv or to give the kid a new toy to keep the kid out of their hair for a little bit while they do the things they need to do.

I know that on occasion, I certainly have put on a video for the kids so tht I could take a shower in peace or go cook a meal or whatever... and I've certainly been short tempered with my children, both when I worked away from home and stayed at home. Although now I'm technically working at home since I do daycare, but I digress.

I have not been unfortunate enough to meet one of the parents that buy their children gifts because they don't spend any time with them, I'm sure all of us parents on this board spends time with their children rather than get to the dishes / laundry / cleaning right away and ignore their children until the house is clean once again and it's time for bed.

I guess what I meant was that working parents tend to be more time-focused people, and tend to have more of a "do I have the time to...?" frame of mind. I was a working mother for a long time - and I've been a SAHM for almost a year now, so I've seen both ends of the spectrum... and Stress-wise, I have to say that staying at home lets me have more patience, because I'm no longer only seeing my children for only 3 hours during the waking hours. Not saying that working parents have no patience... just saying what my experience was/is.

I hope nobody felt targetted or picked on... definitely wasn't my intention. I know I said I'd shut up, but I thought I'd better explain myself better before anyone else questions what I'm actually trying to say...

Not bad for a Frenchie, though, eh? (jk)

TANNER'S MOM replied: When I say let kids be kids.. I don't mean they don't get to learn lessons of life. I mean manners and being polite isn't something that kids can not know. I know in today society it seems many don't.. but in my house they do. My children are well mannered, but are kids and when they aren't they are punished accordingly.

When I say let kids be kids, I mean why should they not have time to play and relax. Let them not have to worry about adult issue's like bills and money. Let them worry about who needs what and how is it going to happen.

I want my kids to think Mom is a hero and their needs are magically filled for a bit longer cause the real world is bad enough.

And when I say it in regard to education I mean, that society, and teachers and children themselves will pressure themselves enough with out me doing it for them. I mean no one wants to be the kid who kids bad grades right.. so then the kids push themselves, by themselves. If that doesn't work that's when I step in as a parent. My kids know what is expected of them as members of society and as students, when I get less is when I parent in the most effective way possible.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
Well Jen, I don't really think that the ways I parent are that odd at all. I totally agree that it is what a parent should do...

it's just that for some reason, my mother and my mother in law tell me I'm too tough on my children, that I'm mean for making them try not to make a mess, and I'm mean for having them make their beds in the morning, I'm insanely cruel for having made them learn how to use a knife, I'm mean for lots of things I've shown the kids how to do.

Why? Who knows. To me, it's just seemingly normal stuff... if they CAN do it, why shouldn't they? I mean - if my kdis wouldn't have caught on, or wouldn't have learned it, no big deal. It's not like I starved them until they learned how or anything... but, according to my mom, I'm still mean, cruel, and I should leave them alone to make a mess of their spaghetti if they feel like it.

So while "I" don't think my parenting ways are odd at all, my family seems to.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
I absolutely agree here. Which is why more often than not, there are dirty dishes in my sink, because I usually don't stick around alone in the kitchen long enough on my own to bother with them - I'm usually back in the play room with my kids......Playing and relaxing.

Cece00 replied: I dont think there is anything wrong with challenging your kids and pushing them to succeed to an EXTENT.

Of course anyone can go overboard.

But speaking of electronics...even though Leapfrog & VSmile are education & all of that, I still think its important to limit the amt children use them. Toys like blocks, puzzles, etc are all important for development, too, and I think sometimes ppl (not speaking about anyone on PC, just general "ppl") go overboard with all of the electronic stuff they give their kids. I saw that now VTech has an electronic system for a BABY. I mean, come on. A preschooler is one thing, and certain toys are OK for toddlers, but for a BABY??????

jcc64 replied: I'm not a big fan of electronic "learning" toys- in my experience, toys that "do" too much- i.e.- blinking, talking, singing, etc.. are the ones that my kids lose interest in fastest. The toys that enjoy the most longevity in my house are the ones that require the most creative input from the child- open ended play, in other words, where there is no right or wrong answer and require serious input from the child's imagination.

As far as whether we are pushing our kids to learn too fast- well, expectations are alot higher than they were when I was a child a million years ago. When I went to kindergarten, we were there for 2 hrs total, half of which was spent having a snack and taking a nap. Very few kids went to preK back then. Now, kids who are not reading fluently in kindergarten are behind. You do the math. I can see why parents are pushing their toddlers to learn quickly- the expectations in schools are higer now. Who's fault is this- that's a complicated answer, but to me- the first culprit is standarized testing and NCLB.

Boo&BugsMom replied: I'm not quite certain NCLB is a big a culprit as some people make it out to be (not that I am a fan of it and I believe it is to an extent) because private schools are just as tough, if not tougher, and they do not have to follow the NCLB standards.

jcc64 replied: But their tuitions depend on results and measurable academic achievement- their students are competing in the same arena, ultimately. It's a domino effect.