help with the kids I babysit - a real challange

boyohboyohboy wrote: I started watching 3 other kids in my home out of desperation for money.
They are all siblings with different moms.
The oldest girl is 7 and her brother is 4. Their mother doesnt really want anything to do with them, and only sees them one weekend a month and then every thursday until friday morning.
The youngest sibling has just turned 2.

They are full of emotional and mental issues. The 4 yr old boy has to have some form of autism. He can throw violent tempertantrum at the throw of a hat, and he rocks a lot. He is almost 5 but cant hold a pencil and refuses to. If you hand him one, he stabs the paper with it, and becomes very upset.
He doesnt know his letters or any type of the things he needs for kindergarden.

The 7yr old girl is facinated with babies and where they come from. She also tends to hang on any man, stranger or not, that is near her. She seems to have to touch them. She is a pathalogic liar. When she came to my house for the first week, she pooped on my bathroom rub and tried to deny she did it. I cant even begin to explain why she did this. (needless to say dh is never alone with her).

The littlest one hits and is mean. she has to defend herself to her siblings a lot. He mother is only allowed one night a week supervised visits, because she had post partum very bad and refused to take her meds, and when she was sent home wth her as a new born she attacked her with a socket wrench.
she screams murder when her mom comes for her.

The oldest two come to my house at 5am. their mother goes to church thursday night and keeps them out way past 10pm and then makes them come home, eat a dinner, (ramin noodles and ketchup is a favorite) and then makes them go to sleep. they get up at 3am and she makes them bath, but doesnt allow them to use soap. then she feeds them sugary breakfast and dumps that at my house. when they come in I try to get them to sleep until they have to get up for school. (only the 7yr old goes to school) she does really poorly in school also.

My problem is that the 7 yr old girl is so mouthy. she talks back non stop. she lies, and she wont take direction. I have had to tell her many many times, that she is in my house and she will listen. she spends most of her time at my house in time out. and she is there only 2 hours in the am and 2 hours after school.

The 4yr old boy, hits and even at the slightest thing..for example, he usually brings some tattered animal to our house for comfort. well if Jake goes near it or touches it to see what it is, the 4yr old breaks out in a rage and jumps him and hits him. he has tried to dig Jakes eyes out. we have to pull him off of him and put him in time out, but getting him to the time out spot is hard. he is so stiff and throwing himself, that my husband has to bear hug him and you have to scream at him to be heard.

they have half day school this week for teacher conferences, I dont know what to do with them all day. or when summer comes.
during the day when its just the 4 yr old and the 2 yr old with my little ones. its not so bad. we usually go for walk, and then they take 4 hour naps. its when they older ones come home from school that its so bad.
I can let the older ones outside with out supervision, the girl tried to break our car window on friday.
and its getting really cold here.
does anyone have any ideas on how to keep them from killing each other for these next two days?
Or to keep me from losing it?

and before you ask, we have to keep this job. its pays really well, and cash. in we need the money.

Mommy2Isabella replied: Thats a tough one. I don't know how to help. Just wanted to give you virtual hugs!

mckayleesmom replied: I think your best bet would be consistancy...They sound like they don't have alot of it and that is probably the first thing you want to establish with them. Right now they are probably testing you to see what they can get away with...Maybe you can also incorperate a reward system with them too...

Hopefully they will start to recognize the what is ok in your house and what is not.

austins mom replied: I really dont know what to say. I have to agree with the consistency thing. It may help when they see some that there is some stabillity there. Good luck.

CantWait replied: Consistency here also and if that doesn't work and you're really dreading the summer that much and half days, then it's time to find kids that you can connect with. People are always looking for quality child care and really it sounds like these kids have more issues then you are qualified (and I don't mean that in a bad way, just they need professional help) to deal with.

lovemy2 replied: Ouch - that would be tough - definately consistency but maybe while they are there the next couple days all together you can sit down with all of them and make up a list of rules that you post somewhere - rules and what happens when they break the rules - that way they know the expectation and as long as you stick with the rules and consequences for breaking them they will know what to expect and stop testing. Maybe having them involved and in control in some respects for making up the rules then they will be apt to follow them. I have never met a kid yet (and I know there probably are some) who has a crappy home life and is quite conflicted that doesn't really WANT that kind of normalcy.......

punkeemunkee'smom replied: I know you already said you need the job but allow me to play devils advocate for a few moments....
I am really most concerned for you with what you have said about the little girl. I know you said your husband is never alone with her but I have a close friend who went through something unimaginable with her step daughter and one of her own children (my friend's daughter is only 3, the step child is 8) It has been a nightmare and when things like this happen CPS will take the word of the child first and ask questions or look to colaborate the story later. I am just saying that YOU know your husband is never alone with her....if anything was said by this little girl-they would take her word first and figure it all out later...by then the damage to you and your husbands reputation is already done-not to mention what could happen in the meantime with your own children. I am sure this job pays well-from the sounds of it-it would have to! But I would start putting an add in the paper for another set of kids to sit for....In the meantime I am so sorry you are dealing with this!

boyohboyohboy replied: you guys are all so right..
I had posted for different kids so many times, but no one wants to pay for good child care here. I found one lady that had three kids and they also had issues and she wouldnt budge over $50 a week. and thats so not worth it..

so I took these kids in, because the father is faithful at paying me. I also really needed the money. It seriously was something we couldnt not do. and this way I get to stay home with my kids and not have them in day care. which with Jakes issues I just cant trust a day care to take care of him.

anyway, thats how I rationalize it in my own head. I hate that my children are exposed to these behaviors. I hate that I really feel hateful towards them.
I have never seen such disrespect and violence in kids.

I have found that the more stern I speak, the more stern I am about not letting one simple thing fly by with out a repremand then they respond better. Right down to their bathroom etique. If they dont wash their hands and put the seat down, they go to time out..and that works.
but man, by the end of the day. I am exhausted.

I just need some way to deal with the 7yr old girl more then anything. I am not used to girls, since I have boys..and never a child that is so sexual.
I try to tell her that she needs to do well in school and go to college and get a good job before she can get married and have kids. but she is around a mom who has a different man in her house daily and they live in a one room house so the kids know whats going on when she has a male guest.
I do really worry about her lying about myself or my husband. but apparently she had done something like that in the past, she told the nurse at school that her father was touching her there, and she was very descritive..as it turned out she has a grown together labia. her father has to apply some type of hormone cream to her daily..so after it was all straightened out thats what was going on.
and yes, this was a huge concern to me, and we discussed it with the father right away when we agreed to take the kids.

she seems to have no conscious. and she reminds me of a seriel killer. her attitude is horrible and she rolls her eyes at me everytime I speak. The day she pooped on the rug, I had her sit in time out at our table alone until she said she was sorry and also that she admit she did it..it took 2 hours to break her. until she realized that I was not giving in..and still to this day she will bring it up when ever she gets in trouble, that she didnt do it.


and she also knows that God is important in our home. she will make comments like "I hate God" and she says the Lord's name in vain. I put her in time out for being disrespectful in my home. one day she yells J.C...and I went off on her. She was embarrassed and turned red. I told her mother that day and she yelled at her. but thats what I deal with.

maybe I just need to vent, I feel bad that I really dont like these kids. when maybe they were put in my care for a reason?

cameragirl21 replied: Well I don't see how you could like these kids, they sound like little monsters. I agree with Abbie and I am concerned about a kid trying to dig Jake's eyes out...that is serious business, it is NOT just child's play and that would concern me because the kids' anger issues could, God forbid, lead to a serious accident at your house.
Stacy, I have to ask, and feel free to tell me to shut up and mind my own business but you are a nurse--you could get a good job, there is such a demand for nurses right now. I realize you don't want to put the kids in daycare but would it be possible for you to work part time when your DH is home so that you can escape the whole daycare issue and still get some money? Nursing pays good money these days and I just can't help but think that someone with your degree and education shouldn't have to deal with kids like that.
I mean, no one should have to deal with kids like that, educated or not, but if you have a degree that could earn you good money, why take a job like that?
Again, jmo, feel free to tell me to butt out.

lisar replied:
I am so sorry you are having to deal with this. It sounds so horrible. You are stronger than I am cause I would have told them kids to hit the road by now. However I do feel sorry for the kids they must be going thru alot also especially to be behaving like that. Have you talked to the father and asked if they act like this at home also? If they dont act like this at home then there is no reason for them to act like this at your house. I also agree with the consistency. If anything works that will be it.

boyohboyohboy replied:
I have been wanting to go back to nursing for a while now. I dont think I am really cut out to be a SAHM. I miss the interaction and the satisfaction I got when I really 'made a difference in someone else's health. dont worry Jennfier. I am not easily offended. and you are welcome to ask....
but my dh just got this job after being on unemployment for the past 4months. he is new there and cant ask for a favor of any kind. when he lost his job due to his trucking accident we were in trouble. we used all our retirement and savings to move for that job..then lost it less then a few weeks after getting here. we were close to losing it all.
I mean in todays economy you have to be careful being the low man on the totem pole know what i mean? he doesnt really have any marketable skills other then as a driver and right now he cant drive.
so that being said, he works 245-1230pm. (that includes travel time) so I cant work 7-3 I wont make it home in time. I cant work second shift thats what he works..and i cant work 11-7 because I would have to leave before he gets home.

daycare is not an option for us, anything I would make would go to daycare. and as I have mentioned before. jake is settling down with his food allergies, but I think thats because i have been with him and work thru the issues with him and he has healed to some extent. He is slowly learning to be more social and his sensory intergrative disorder is so much better. but we have to be so careful what he eats.
and I am sorry but most people in daycare what ever the reason, to many kids, or not enough time..what ever might give him something that kills him. no amount of money I might make is worth that.

also here as a nurse you have to work a minimum of two weekends a month and then every other holiday..dh works all holidays..

so I am just stuck.

babysitting seemed the best idea to make money, cash, and then keep the kids home with me.
I have been looking for other kids for a long time but no one seemed to be looking for a sitter except people who waited till the week school started and didnt want to pay..and honestly how much can I depend on getting paid by those kinds of people?

boyohboyohboy replied:
lisa, there father is in la la land..no offense. I am sure he does his best, a single father of three kids. But he has no clue about them. He thinks that the boy is fine....and the school when they knew the difficulties that the 7yr old had in school found out that there were more kids, they set it up that the boy was to start head start for free this past summer and he would be picked up by a bus and taken there and brought back for free...he just never filled out the paper work. he is so not going to do well in school. he cant behave enough and he throws those fits..and then the rocking and also he just cant do the work..he is so behind. Jake is 3 and knows way more then he does, and we dont really work that hard with Jake. I have been making them watch the leap frog videos a lot lately to try to get some ideas in his head about the alphabet..
I think he is in denial that there are things wrong..he never takes them to the dr for check ups..or dentist..the girl has 13 cavities, and just had three of her baby teeth and one permanent one removed. she has many more appts that need done. she was finally made to go because her mouth was infected and sore. now the boy has cavities too.
He has been hinting to me that he wants me to start potty training his dgt. I told him I am working on jake right now, and wont do two at a time.we have been talking about raising the income for the summer since she will be here full time. also when we thought about this we never took into consideration the winter and spring break time..so we are asking more for those days..thats all that keeps me going is the money.

its paying off our debt and making it possible for us to own a home..I have to keep it until next school year..
then we can maybe not feel so trapped.

boyohboyohboy replied: what I really need are some ideas to keep the girl and my son who is 7 apart..and for the kids to be able to nap...

we have a nice large yard but its getting cold and i cant trust the older ones outside alone . and i wont leave the little ones inside alone either..

I am thinking of making the girl do some reading, but if she wont in school that might be just a bigger problem for me. i dont want to fight with her anymore..

what do 7 yr old girls like to do?
maybe some bead crafts or something? I want to put her by herself and let her do something..my son likes to play alone in his room so he is fine. together they are a mess. they fight non stop and tell on each other every second.

I guess I feel like I should say I am uncomfortable keeping caleb alone with this girl at all for even one second. I dont want her to say something to him that starts him on this sexual trend she is in, and i dont want her to God forbid start anything with him.....

those are my biggest fears also. I hate that we have to be so careful, but we are really careful. i take her to the bath room and stand there with her because she cant be trusted..its embarrassing I am sure, but its how it is. I worry about her saying something about that too. i told her mom and dad and her grandmother that i take her because of the pooping on the carpet thing.
they were fine with it.

luvmykids replied: From what you're describing of the little girl, it sounds to me like she's suffered some form of sexual abuse. My heart breaks for all of those kids, but I have to add to what Abbie said. We have a family member that has been accused of terrible things (and is awaiting trial) and it turns out the girl who accused him had actually been abused by someone else prior to all of this. My point is her behaviors were the same....the lying, wanting attention (even non sexual) from men, etc. I'd be wary of having anything resembling that situation, for the sake of the trouble it could cause for my own family.

Have you talked to the dad about the behavior? Maybe when he comes to pick them up one day he could plan on staying for a few minutes while you, he and the kids talk about rules and consequences.

You are one tough lady, there is no way I could stick that out.

boyohboyohboy replied:
I have told him and the aunt (remember my crazy neighbor that gave my kids the hand foot and mouth disease? thats their aunt. thats how i got these kids the aunt moved)
well I talked to them about how she touches men and rubs herself on them, and seems to be in the thought process of sex all the time. and the aunt just said she sees the girl getting pregnant as a teen. and the dad just turned to her and said " her name" you better stop that! and that was it.
he knows that the kids are in time out a lot . I tell him when it occures.
I have talked to him about the girl being in the back of the school bus and how i dont think thats a good idea with 5th grade boys. he didnt do anything so i talked to the bus driver and had her moved...
i dont know why he is in denial.

i do want to just run from these kids, other then not liking them, i worry about the things you talked about..but what if I have been put in their lives to make a difference? we are the only mom and dad family in their lives, we are the only consistant thing in their lives..
its hard to feel so crappy about it, and want to get away from them, and then at the same time think what if we can make a difference.dont get me wrong most days i dont think of the good part. only the bad..
but as my faith seems to be tickling at the back of my mind...its hard to walk away for monitary reasons..but its starting to make me feel guilty too.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: What about giving her more responsibility? having no real relationship with her mom, she probably could really use a loving mother figure. What about things like doing her hair? Letting her do yours? What about teaching her how to play solitaire? Allowing her to make big cut-out letters of all the kids' names for an art wall or something...
Baking cookies together? Giving her some small cooking tasks?
Zach turned 6 in August, and he's able to make quite a few small things, such as toast and putting stuff like jam on them, he can mix muffin mix on his own and even drop it into muffin tins without too many spills.. making some sort of bracelet with beads, shells, whatever.. bet she's never really done those things. It's not easy to be a girl raised by a father.

boyohboyohboy replied:
I think I am going to see if i can find some craft things for her to at the table.
I really have a hard time seeing myself doing hair things with her or cooking. I do that with caleb (not the hair stuff) but it just seems very personal..and I frankly dont feel good about her right now, and dont want to get to close to these kids. i am afraid if I dont stay objective, then there would be no way I could let them go with their mothers...

AlexsPajamaMama replied:
Maybe make the crafts a reward for her, if she can listen about one certain thing then she can play with beads...maybe that sort of thing will encourage her to behave better. I have no clue about girls either so Im really no help.
Bless your heart...and I think you are right in saying they were placed in your care for a reason. It sounds like you and your family are the only positive thing in their lives. I feel so sad for kids like them.

CantWait replied: You know it sounds like that's all you're in it for is the money!
A childcare giver needs to be able to do things with the kids like Rocky said, (doing hair, baking, etc) and sometimes Potty training is part of that, you're the one that is with them through most of the day and if you're not willing and able to help in that task, then how will they ever learn.

Her issues are one thing and I realize you've talked to her dad, but if he isn't willing to take care of the kids (taking them to the dentist regularly etc), then what makes you think he's going to back you if she tells a lie about your husband, you or one of your kids??

msoulz replied:

ITA with that.

boyohboyohboy replied:
Marie, I make no secret of the fact that I only took in these kids for the money. I am not their parents. It is not my job to potty train. I also have not sugar coated the fact that I do not care for these kids. but I do open my house to them for 11-12 hours a day. I also give them the best care, just as I do my own children. I also expect them to follow the same rules that I expect my own children to follow.
They have tons of toys, meals, snacks, and are kept safe. I do not intend to keep them any longer then I have to. but my original post was asking for help to find something that girls her age can do. I think that should show I am not mean to them. I could have just set her in time out or in front of the tv and left them there on their breaks or summer time. but I havent. I dont want to allow myself to care for them in any other way, its just to hard. I dont hate them, but they are certainly not nice children.
I realize they were born into terrible circumstances, but again, that is not something I have any control over. I also do not expect their father to back us on anything. If I ever see any behavior in my home that is inappropriate with my own kids or my husband then I will call their dad and they will be asked to leave immediately. I dont have the luxury right now to stop watching them. I have to help with our income or we dont eat. We have been dealt some unfortunate circumstances ourselves right now, we dont do anything extra. no cells, no eating out, nothing..
I dont agree with your statement that they wont learn any other way. They have relatives, they have school. I am not qualified to deal with a child like the boy, who has severe issues. I am not qualified to determine what is wrong with the girl that causes her to act like she does. I feel that I am simply the place that they are put while their parents work. They never even came to check us out or ask us anything so they didnt care where their kids were put. the aunt used to watch them, she was my neighbor and when she moved she just said want to watch these kids, and we said yes. then the day before they were to come we asked to meet the parents and the mothers wouldnt come. we met with the father to talk about the money..he never looked around our house or asked us one thing..what type of parent does that?
so they are lucky they are in our care..because I am sure it could be much worse.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Stacy, I know that you don't like the kids.. but the best thing for THEM is that they are not only given the basic rights such as food, a roof, etc etc.. they need LOVE. These kids seem to never have known it, and by all acounts they definitely seem to crave it, hence the bad behaviour. Negative reactions towards them is better than none at all... and they seem to only have ever known negativity.

Give them love. Don't be afraid to get attached. Children can sense when there's a disdain for them. I know that when my own kids annoy me, they seem to do it on purpose to annoy me even more.. but when I bite the bullet and drop what i'm doing, and pay attention to them, get down on the floor with them, or even just take 2 minutes and paint my girls' finger nails, they settle down, and everyone's calmer and happier for it.

It's a sad situation.

But like you said yourself - you need the money, and aren't in a position to get rid of them... might as well make the most of it. The best caregivers are the ones that are emotionally involved.

luvmykids replied:
Being that they're there so much, I don't see much choice on the potty training. I mean, someone else can start it, but you'll definitely have to participate since they're there so much.

I'm not attacking you, I think you're in a tough position where you need the kids and want the best for them, but you don't want to get involved past a certain point. Since you mentioned that maybe they're in your care for a reason, I think the best thing you can do is get more involved like Rocky said....instead of merely being an example of what a family looks like, maybe you can show them what it feels like too.

Like I said, I couldn't stick it out, but since you don't really have a choice maybe that is the thing that would make a difference in their behavior is the emotional connection.