You guys are BRAVE!!!!! - hope this doesn't offend anyone....

cameragirl21 wrote: Ok, so I really don't think there's anyone on earth who loves animals more than I do. I'm a strict vegetarian just because I won't kill or eat animals. I've taken in strays of all sorts and feed some stray cats now in addition to the one I have as a pet. And I'm not squeamish in the least--I've picked up scorpions and tarantulas and all kinds of exotic lizards, swam with a ten foot bull shark (that was unintentional though, it swam up to me in the ocean) and cornered an alligator (and when I say cornered, I could have easily reached out and touched its nose or snout or whatever you call it).
But rats walking around your house? Wow, I don't think I could handle that one. There are lots of opossums around here that come and eat from the food I feed the stray cats and I can't say I'm too fond of them, even though I'd never harm them. And I'm year of the rat in Chinese astrology but wow, I never thought of them as pets.
Don't get me wrong, I would never harm a rat and in fact, I have three turtles and whenever I go to the reptile store to get stuff for them I get really upset when they pull out mice and rats by their tails to sell people to feed to snakes. That I could never do, not with a gun to my head. In fact, the store workers know by now not to pull out the mice when I'm there because I nearly cried last time I was there and watched them do that.
And rats are cute and all, I've seen them in pet stores but I have to ask--what would make you think of them as a pet? It would never even occur to me.
Btw, a really cool pet (that is kind of expensive) is a sugar glider...if you like rats you'd love sugar gliders. They're marsupial so they like to be in your pocket and are too cute--they look like a mix between a squirrel and a kangaroo and are very attached to people.
Anyway, hope I didn't offend anyone but I had to ask about the rat thing, I've never known anyone to keep a rat as a pet.
Take care,
Jennifer

moped replied: Rats? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

But I think maybe they aren't talking about the same kind of rats we are

cameragirl21 replied: I've been meaning to tell you--your son is absolutely gorgeous! I'm a photographer and do a lot of work for publication using child models and I would LOVE to use him as a model, he's just stunning.
Wish you lived around here....
Take care,
Jennifer

moped replied:
Ahhh thanks - you are too kind!! We love taking pics of him. We see a professional at least once a year!

ashtonsmama replied:
Jennifer! Jack is adorable, definitely a very handsome guy.

You'll need to monitor the girl activity soon Jen!

C&K*s Mommie replied: Unlike you *cameragirl* I am sqeamish about different creatures. I never knew rats could be considered pets until it was mentioned recently by Cary (kitkatsmom).

And to see the websties dedicated to owners of rats, was astounding. I never knew it was such a big hit to have them as pets. I am behind on the times, but I did not realize by this much.

I am curious now about them as pets, too,

Hillbilly Housewife replied: My cousin has two. They're adorable... they like to hang out on his shoulder as he plays videogames. They're not the typical rats you think of when you think rat... I get the image of those grey huge monsters that run around in the sewers... but they're more like bigger gerbils.

Jackie012007 replied: yeah I'll admit I was a little turned off at first but my friend Kira has a pair and when I gave her my bunny I went over to inspect her place and saw them... they reallyare very intelligent, personable little creatures! Very affectionate too, they really thrive if you can give them lots of human contact and attention

C&K*s Mommie replied: Thanks for the clarification, Rocky.

cameragirl21 replied: Well, here's the thing, and again, I hope this doesn't offend anyone because I certainly don't mean to turn this into a religious discussion but I'm Jewish and one thing that many Jews (typically the older generation) take pride in is that during the time of the plague, very few Jews died whereas everyone else was dropping like flies. People thought that Jews were evil and sorcerers and used some sort of witchcraft to bring the plague onto others but in reality, the reason Jews weren't getting the plague is because they kept much cleaner conditions in their homes than the others and had very few rats. The cause of the plague? rats. So I guess when I think of rats I think of the plague.
Now obviously the plague has been over for some time now and the rats you buy at the pet store don't cause or carry the plague so it's not as if I think anyone is bringing home the plague by getting a rat as a pet, it's just an association thing for me, I guess. I also don't really like their long hairless tails. That's why I compared them to opossums...when I first saw the opossums I thought they might be rats, couldn't tell at first.
Also, the rat in Chinese astrology is considered super intelligent but also shrewd and in some cases, downright deceptive and treacherous. The reason is that the legend behind the Chinese astrological calendar is that Buddha had a tea party and invited all the animals. The first 12 that showed up got to be in his astrological calendar. The rat was the last one to arrive BUT it was supposed to be the lion. Obviously a lion moves much faster than a rat but the rat tricked the lion and told him that the tea party was at a different time so he turned back home and never showed up and the rat took his place. So the rat is considered sinister even in Chinese astrology. I am year of the rat but would have much preferred to be a lion as I'm a lunar leo in Western astrology and much prefer lions to rats. As you can see, I'm very into astrology.
So bottom line, I guess I think of rats as sewer dwelling animals that are unclean and spread diseases. They've also been known in folklore to attack people and eat them alive when in packs. So I was surprised to hear that they are affectionate toward people and don't bite. I would expect a rat to bite for sure.
However I do get upset when they get served up as snake food and told the guys at the reptile store that I would be getting a mongoose just so I could buy snakes from them to feed it since they're so keen on feeding defenseless mice and rats to snakes. I was kidding of course, I have no plans to acquire a mongoose although that too would make a cool pet....
Take care and again, hope I didn't offend anyone,
Jennifer

Kaitlin'smom replied: Not the same kind of rat.....I thought it was stange also till I met some. My sitter had some a couple years ago. They were the best pets.

kit_kats_mom replied:
No offense taken at all. Rats have gotten a bad rap over the years. They are quite smart and will work at a problem for a long time, which is why they have been seen as sneaky and dangerous.

They are very social animals and LOVE their people though. I actually had a rat in high school but it was more because I was a punk rocker and I delighted in freaking people out when I'd go to the mall with Biff on my shoulder. Those were some good times.

The rats are the same ones you are thinking of but there are different breeds of them. Most are not your normal big, wild grey rat.

According to my research, the plague was spread by fleas. The fleas did live on rats but I would guess that they also lived on household dogs and cats too. Rats just spread the fleas effeciently in that time of less than ideal clenliness standards.

We'd thought about a reptile but the threat of salmonella stopped us in our tracks on that one. I wouldn't have minded a snake or turtle but it would have had to be a small snake because like you, I couldn't stomach live food.

mckayleesmom replied:
I use to have an Australian Sugar glider and although they are cool pets...I think rats make better pets for kids.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
No offense, but that's utter crap.

The reason lots of Jews didn't get the plague is because lots of real silver was used in cutlery etc... and unlike lots of regular people back in that time, lots of jewish families had heirloom cutlery, brushes, mirrors and other items made with silver, used on a regular basis. The richer people of that time ALSO used lots of silver stuff... and more often than not, rich people had a blueish tinge to their skin, from all the silver that was absorbed in their body from the items they used, that's where the term "blueblood" comes from when used to describe a rich person. That is why lots of people from the Jewish population didn't get sick, not because they were cleaner.

That's a bit biased to say that the Jewish population kept cleaner homes than everybody else, and a little rude too.

cameragirl21 replied: Cary,
Just fyi, as far as turtles and salmonella go, you'd have to suck on a turtle all day long to get salmonella, I asked because I have a photo studio in my home and the kids always ask to hold them and I certainly don't want any of the kids I photograph to become sick with anything so I looked into it in detail. Of course I always wash my hands after handling them and make the kids wash their hands too. And the larger one bit me the other day when I took him out to clean their tank and it hurt...his name is Cupid but I renamed him Dracula, lol. So in that sense they are not such good pets for kids and needless to say, the larger one is not handled by anyone except me these days.
As for snakes, if you get a small snake it eventually becomes a big snake and while I think snakes are very cool, they don't make good pets because they don't do anything except eat, sleep and shed their skins.
I absolutely love sugar gliders though and would like to get a pair except that as it is I travel in my career and have people come to take care of my pets and that would just be another responsibility and they too eat live stuff (crickets) and I'd worry if someone isn't squeamish about handling the crickets or that the crickets would get loose in my house and breed into a swarm or something. But you have to get a pair because they're very social and need constant attention and can and will die of loneliness if they're not getting enough attention. If you get two, they'll talk to each other, they make very interesting and unusual sounds when they speak.
I also want to get a pet lynx because they are just so beautiful but for that you need to do 1000 hours of service with someone who has one and can teach you how to care for them, otherwise you'll have it illegally, which I wouldn't want. I photograph exotics like tigers and lions quite a bit and the lady that owns them just got a baby lynx and it is just to die for. I'd post its pic here but for some reason it won't let me download any pics here, I guess the files are too large or something.
Btw, do rats smell? And don't they poop and pee everywhere?
As for the plague, I've always heard it was spread by rats but it may have been the fleas on the rats. I think we can all agree that fleas don't make good pets.
Take care,
Jennifer

cameragirl21 replied: I never said Jews are cleaner, Rocky, I simply said they kept cleaner conditions back then. If you ask a historian, they will tell you that this is the reason they didn't get the plague as much.
As for the silver, I don't know about that. Blueblood is not a reference to Jews, it's mostly royalty, which is not Jewish. Also, while Jews are known for having money today, that wasn't always the case and in history they typically lived in Jewish ghettos and shtetls. So it's not a matter of their being richer because they weren't. However, Jews are historically jewelers, hence surnames like Goldberg, Diamond and Silverman so as for their having real silver, that may be true, I don't know.
Anyway, I didn't mean to offend nor did I mean to imply that Jews are cleaner or better or anything like that. I just meant to say that once I heard the story about the plague and rats I automatically associate rats with the plague and dirt and diseases and that I suppose that this is why I don't think of them as pets.
I certainly did not mean to come across as rude or anything like that.
Take care,
Jennifer

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
They don't smell any more than a hampster does.... since they can be kept in the same type of cage, same bedding etc...

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
I never said Bluebloods was a reference to Jews... nor did I say they had lots of money... I just said that "richer people" were referenced to as Bluebloods, because of the blueish tinge to their skin from the silver, which was one of the reasons they didn't really get the plague.

And I have talked to historians... because I have several Jewish friends, and we always joke around because although I'm canadian, my father was in the military and I was born in Germany. And so I wanted to educate myself about the history, since although I'm not German by blood, I am by citizenship... and consideriung the history between Jews and Germany, I wanted to be sure not to say something out of line to m,y friends. I'm just wierd like that... They like to tease me about it though...

Kaitlin'smom replied:
actually they smell LESS than a hampster. At least according to my sitter she HATED the way hampsters smelled and her rats I hardly ever knew she had them.

cameragirl21 replied: Well, the thing is that I should never have brought religion into this, in all fairness, I could very well have simply said that I associate rats with the plague without bringing any religion or anything else into it. I should have known better.
Sorry if I offended anyone....
Take care,
Jennifer

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
you didn't offemd me... lol

I'm just a huge fan of Colloidal Silver... I always have some in my fridge. It's one of those cure alls... and since they "saved" so many people from one of the biggest wide-spread diseases in history, I like sharing tidbits of info about it.

ps - we didn't talk about the faith, by the way... just about silver and cleanliness...

I know you're fairly new to this board.. but i'm sure you'll find that everyone is great - and we can discuss this type of topic without attacks and nam-calling - unlike most of the other boards out there. I like hearing your pov's, and I enjoy discussing history... i just hope that i didn't offend you - not that it's an excuse, but i'm french and sometimes my comments are taken the wrong way because I miscommunicated them.

cameragirl21 replied: You didn't offend me either, Rocky, it's just that in retrospect I can see how what I said could be interpreted as rude and it was just plain unnecessary to the discussion. I could very well have expressed myself without bringing that into the equation.
As for the colloidal silver, one of my animal experts that I use for photoshoots (I photograph children with animals a lot and have a team of experts on hand) feeds it to her animals.
I woke up with strep throat this morning and feel like sh*t. I have bad asthma so I get sick easily. That colloidal silver is starting to sound really good right about now....
Obviously I can't be around kids while I am still contagious so I can't shoot till this passes and I am not a happy camper. My doc called in antibiotics but I avoid stuff like that like the plague (there's that plague again, lol) but what choice do I have?
so tell me more about this silver....
Take care,
Jennifer

TheOaf66 replied: my DW used to have domestic rats as pets when she was younger, I never got it either

MichaelsMommy replied: There is no way I'd ever keep a rat as a pet.
Can imagine if any of my friends or family found out they'd never come to my house again.
Not for us.. no thanks.

redchief replied: Such an offbeat topic. I can't wait until I see how it comes out.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Here are a few excelent links to information on Colloidal Silver. A cousin of my mom's makes her own. She has all the equipement... her and her husband are both homeopathic cancer survivors.

ETA - Whoops - forgot the links... lol

http://www.all-natural.com/silver-1.html
http://www.cyberpet.com/cyberdog/articles/health/coloid.htm
http://www.rense.com/general12/blueasdf.htm
http://www.2012.com.au/Colloidal_SilverB.html
http://www.keelynet.com/biology/colloid.htm

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I had rats as pets growing up...never let them loose around the house though, they were in cages, but when they were out I always knew where they were. I had about 3, but I'm allergic to them now as an adult and can't have any. They are very timid, they don't bite. They will fall asleep in your lap if you let them. I taught mine how to jump to get treats. I love rats as pets. They are one of the best pets, if you ask me.

I love animals too, even though I do eat meat, but I can not look at an alive animal and then eat it after it's been killed. That's why I could never go hunting...I feel too bad for them. The only animal I don't care for are birds...they're beaks freak me out. I always think they are going to peck me to death.

redchief replied: Sorry, but the US government disagrees on the supposed benefits of colloidal silver products. Everyone should weigh both sides before ingesting heavy metals.

From the National Institute for Health:
http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/



No thanks on the silver supplements for me. I'm not a big rat fan either. Of course the marsh rats native to this area are nearly as big as cats and are jet black, and they have been known to bite.

I was going to watch this topic play out, but I strongly disagreed with advancing the idea of taking colloidal silver. You can have pet rats if you want.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have a problem feeding the mouse to the snake regardless of who was present. Snakes eat mice. That's life.

ashtonsmama replied: I didn't really know about any of this...

cameragirl21 replied: you didn't know about any of what--rats as pets or colloidal silver?
or my upsetting everyone by bringing religion and the plague into the discussion?
btw, redchief, your post really cracked me up, love the non sequiturs and trying to cover each topic at once.
but i'd never feed a mouse to a snake...it may be natural in nature but in nature the mouse at least has a fair shot, however remote. it's like throwing a person into a shark tank or a lair of hungry alligators where the person can't get out. s/he wouldn't have a prayer but if you run into a shark or gator in nature, you MIGHT have a prayer.
what happens in nature is outside of my control but if i throw a defenseless mouse into a snake tank where the mouse has no way of getting out or saving him/herself then I just can't do that.
you are a funny and good guy though.
Take care,
Jennifer

ashtonsmama replied:

I meant the colloidal silver part Jennifer.

My3LilMonkeys replied:
I don't know much about rats and nothing about colloidal silver so I'll just go off-off topic and say that not all snakes grow large enough to eat live food such as mice. Some species stay fairly small if you're interested in the snake thing without the live food part.

I'm an oddball who finds it fascinating to watch a snake feed on a live mouse though. I'd love to have one but DH would never come back in the house if I did....hmm....now there's an idea.

gr33n3y3z replied: I like snakes also my Dad use to bring them home for us to play with bc he would find them on jobs sites.

But once a snake was ran over and it had eggs in it we dug a hole and burried the eggs

I like Lizards also lol

My fish that I have are live feeders but I converted them to flake eaters LOL

As for having a rat or mice for pets from a pet store I see nothing wrong with it at all but its not for me.

mom2my2cuties replied: After reading this tonight, I did a little bit of research, because I was curious about the "healing properties" of silver that it sounded like this stuff had. I am all for trying natural remidies however, it really doesn't sound like it is very good for your body at all.

Oh and about the snake eating rat thing - I know it happens, but even pet stores who carry snakes that size wont feed them when they are open because of how "gruesome" it is.

This is pretty much what all the websites I hit had to say about it - Although if you have more information I would LOVE to read it as long as it is reliable information and not an advertisment for it (Ad's just tell you the good stuff).

This public domain fact sheet provides a general overview of colloidal silver products, discusses scientific research findings on their use for health purposes, and suggests additional sources of information.

Key Points


Colloidal silver products consist of tiny silver particles suspended in liquid. They are usually marketed as dietary supplements.


Over-the-counter colloidal silver products are not considered by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to be generally recognized as safe and effective for diseases and conditions.


The FDA has taken action against a number of colloidal silver companies (such as Web sites) for making drug-like claims about their products.

Colloidal silver can cause serious side effects.

One is argyria, a bluish-gray discoloration of the body. Argyria is not treatable or reversible.


If you are considering using a colloidal silver product, talk with all your health care providers. Discussing its use with your health care team is important for your safety and helps each provider make sure that all aspects of your health care are working together.


What Are Colloidal Silver Products?

Silver is a metallic element that is mined as a precious metal. It has various industrial uses--for example, in jewelry, silverware, electronic equipment, dental fillings, photographic processing, and disinfecting water. People are commonly exposed to silver, usually in tiny amounts, through the environment (such as the air), drinking water, and food, and possibly their work or hobbies. Silver has no known biological function in living organisms.

Silver has had some medicinal uses going back for centuries. However, more modern and less toxic drugs have eliminated most of those uses. A few prescription drugs containing silver are still available. For example, silver nitrate can be used to prevent an eye condition called conjunctivitis in newborn babies and to treat certain skin conditions, such as corns and warts. Another drug, silver sulfadizine, can be used to treat burns. These drugs are applied to the body (i.e., they are not taken internally), and they can have negative side effects.

Colloidal silver products consist of tiny silver particles suspended in a liquid base. Sometimes other ingredients are added, such as proteins, coloring, etc. The products are usually taken by mouth (in which case the products are considered dietary supplements). Some other types are sprayed, applied to the skin, or injected into a vein.

In humans, buildup of silver from colloidal silver can lead to a side effect called argyria. It causes a bluish-gray discoloration of the skin, other organs, deep tissues, nails, and gums. Argyria cannot be treated or reversed, and it is permanent. While it is not known how argyria occurs, it is thought that silver combines with protein, forming complexes that deposit in the skin and are processed by sunlight (as in traditional photography). Other side effects from using colloidal silver products may include neurologic problems (such as seizures), kidney damage, stomach distress, headaches, fatigue, and skin irritation. Colloidal silver may interfere with the body's absorption of the following drugs: penacillamine, quinolones, tetracyclines, and thyroxine.

Does the Government Regulate Dietary Supplements Containing Colloidal Silver?

Yes, the Government regulates them, but differently than drugs. The Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 places dietary supplements in a special category of foods. This category is regulated differently than other foods and than drugs. For example, manufacturers of dietary supplements, unlike manufacturers of drugs, do not have to prove their product's safety and effectiveness to the FDA before it is marketed. If the product is found to be unsafe after it is marketed, the FDA can take certain actions, such as removing it from the marketplace. The FDA issued a ruling in 1999 that no products containing colloidal silver are generally recognized as safe and effective. The FDA and the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) have sent warning letters to the operators of many Web sites that market colloidal silver with drug-like claims (i.e., that their product diagnoses, treats, cures, or prevents disease).

What Should People Do Who Are Considering or Using Colloidal Silver?

If you are considering or using a colloidal silver product, or any type of complementary and alternative medicine (CAM), talk with all your health care providers. Discussing its use is important for your safety and helps each provider make sure that all aspects of your health care are working together. This is especially important if you are pregnant, nursing a baby, or considering treating a child. You can also learn about FDA and FTC actions on misrepresentations for colloidal silver.

Conventional Medicine

Conventional medicine is medicine as practiced by holders of M.D. (medical doctor) or D.O. (doctor of osteopathy) degrees and by their allied health professionals, such as nurses, physical therapists, and dietitians. Other terms for conventional medicine include allopathy; Western, mainstream, orthodox, and regular medicine; and biomedicine.

Complementary and Alternative Medicine (CAM)

Health care practices and products that are not presently considered to be part of conventional medicine are called CAM. Complementary medicine is used together with conventional medicine. Alternative medicine is used in place of conventional medicine. There is scientific evidence for the effectiveness of some CAM treatments. But for most, there are key questions yet to be answered through well-designed scientific studies, such as whether they are safe and work for the diseases or conditions for which they are used. The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM), part of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), is the Federal Government's lead agency for scientific research on CAM.

For References and More Information:
NCCAM Publication No. D209 - June 2004

*****

I also found this link -

http://tcm.health-info.org/food%20cure/colloidalsilver.htm
http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/index.htm
http://www.biogenesis.co.za/pi-silver.asp

And a million more when I googled Colloidal Silver.

*******************************


That said, I am with the original poster, you guys are VERY brave to have mice in your home I am not much of a "rodent" person. I don't mean to offend anyone by posting this, just thought the info was a little bit interesting.

****Edited to add:I am all for trying natural remidies however, it really doesn't sound like it is very good for your body at all.

gr33n3y3z replied:
I would like to see these pics that you talk about
If you dont know how to make them smaller send them to someone who can here and I'm sure they would love to do it also.

cameragirl21 replied: Send me your email addy, Lisa (green eyes) and I'll send you the pics.
They are sooooo cute!
Jennifer

My3LilMonkeys replied:
As you can probably tell, I'm a snake lover, and I think they get a bad reputation sometimes. I have seen a few different species of snakes feed on live prey and there's really nothing gruesome about it - they generally eat them whole so no blood, guts or anything like that.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I like snakes too. I couldn't bare to watch it eat a live mouse, but I like snakes in all. They don't freak me out, unless it's poisonous and in the wild.

mom2my2cuties replied: I have actually never seen it personally, so I wouldn't know I just remember hearing that in the pet store a few times when people would ask about it.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: As for the C. Silver... we don't use it regularly - but it really does help with colds, cuts, burns etc... and I'm still fairly pink toned... jk

Snakes... I'd love to have one... but my grandmother would have a heart attack every time she came over. I wouldn't really mind feeding them the mice, as long as I don't have to watch them eat it, nor do I have to clean up bones.

2_baby_boos replied:
lol

mom2my2cuties replied:
Oh I understood what you were saying

It just sounded almost like some people think it's a cure all and I had never heard of it, so I wanted to find out about it. And there were several on the thread who didn't know what it was either - so I thought that information was kind of interesting.

Too bad though, I wish this had the healing properties that I it sounded like.