Wow, this place has been on fire!

jcc64 wrote: Hi guys,
I'm writing from my vacation in North Carolina. Having a great time with family and friends, while simultaneously trying to acclimate to my new status as a full time student again.
I guess I missed out on all the drama with Jennifer- but I want to weigh in on the whole thing from the outside looking in.
For a variety of reasons, both self imposed and not, Jennifer is the resident lightening rod here at PC. Her views and manner of debate are most definitely a catalyst for certain members to let their claws out and pile on. There is obviously a pattern to her more controversial posts, and yes, I do believe that she is often aware ahead of time that her posts will wind up being provocative. However, I don't see that as a character flaw, or a reason for her to be personally attacked. Certain people here, and they always do seem to be the same people, have an inability to separate the poster from the post. We can discuss what she's discussing without discussing HER. No one, and I mean NO ONE, is entitled to speculate about her motivations for raising certain topics. You can't know what's in her head. Maybe she's trying to stir up the pot, maybe she's genuinely curious about certain topics. Either way, it's her right to ask, and your right to AVOID IT IF YOU CAN'T GET ALONG WITH HER.
I think the question Jennifer raised initially about religious holidays was a legitimate one, and something that was debated ad nauseum last Christmas with Bill O'Reilly's infamous "War on Christmas" campaign on Fox News. Unfortunately, rather than being about that, the debate became about Jennifer and her personality and whether we should allow her to "cause trouble" around here.
Personally, I want no part of a board that conducts itself the way this one did during those two posts. The mods do a great job straddling the line between freedom of expression and discourse, and the need for civility. The issue is not with them but with members who have made a sport of piling on Jen.
And this board does not exist solely for parenting related issues. That is the common bond we all share- but parenting does not exist in a vaccuum- we are all raising our children in a complicated world fraught with questions of morality and social justice. The questions Jen and others raise about social issues ARE relevant to parenting, but YOU DO NOT HAVE TO RESPOND if controversy makes you uncomfortable. Why is that such a hard thing to for people to understand. If you don't like Jen style debates, go to another post.
Eventually, Jen will leave. But there will be other controversies, and I hope that we will learn how to navigate our way through them like adults, instead of catty junior high school girls.

lovemy2 replied: While some of your points are valid and well said - don't you think you are adding fuel to what was a hotly burning fire that was finally under control - you weren't here as you said when it happened - it was quite a scene for many and took some time to get over - your bringing it up again is adding salt to some still partly open wounds - and very well could start the fire burning again JMO

Crystalina replied:
I agree!

Crystalina replied:
And I agree with you as well.

kimberley replied: as usual, well said Jeanne. i whole heartedly agree with everything you have written and wish that people would be more tolerant of each other here but the reality is.... we cannot force open the minds of people who have no interest in change or growth. i tried that for years with my husband and ended up just frustrating myself because he is absolutely fine with who he is and how he handles life. i stood on my head trying to "show him the light" to no avail. people see and believe what they want to and the idea of equality and justice is lost. it's just a fact we have to accept and move on.

as for fueling the fire, i don't agree. talking about how we feel is a big part of why this board was created and how we have always gotten past issues in the past. we don't have to agree with each other, but we do have to respect each others feelings. this post is one member expressing her feelings and i am certain, was not meant to pour salt in anyone's wounds... just to share her thoughts.

lovemy2 replied:
I can see your point - I probably shouldn't have said fueling the fire - maybe that was the wrong wording - I don't think Jeanne was TRYING to start something up again but on the other hand all of those posts got locked with no resolution so I just don't see where starting another one would do any good - but that being said -

I did agree with some of her points in a general sense as well as agreeing with some of your points as well about tolerance, etc. People are all different, see things differently and react to things differently - that is reality and as you said you can't "change" people just cause you want them to change - it is kinda like telling an alcoholic not to drink just because you don't want them to....

I just hope this post doesn't flare up thoses posts all over again - I hate to see people at each other like that no matter who is right or wrong if anyone really is right or wrong - it makes for a not so nice day here on PC

Hillbilly Housewife replied: You're right, Jeanne.

To me, the problem is not Jennifer nor her posts, it is the childish way that some members tend to jump on her posts even though they've certainly made it clear in the past of their personal feelings towards her. As members, we've discussed those same topics in the past with absolute civility and respect, not immature name calling and bickering. If we edit all the crap that people tossed at Jennifer, the posts really are quite interesting and bring up a wide variety of thoughts and anwers that I know myself I have wondered, as a parent and as a regular person.

It's a real shame that some people just can't get past their opinions on a person. It's really clear who can't stand who here, now, and yet... we keep seeing responses. It's been said before. you don't like it...don't read it. Move on.

Insanemomof3 replied: I totally 100% wholeheartedly agree with you Jeanie. Well said!

luvmykids replied: The only issue I have is personal opinions being questioned rather than respected. I don't care who the poster is, what the topic is, etc...just let people say their piece and leave it alone rather than continue questioning as if they are wrong for their stance. The "ignore it if you don't like it" idea goes both ways.

Crystalina replied:
That's what I meant when I said I agreed with you. I kind of read between the lines and that's what I got out of your post. I just wanted to clear that up. I'm 100% for people saying what they feel (Jennifer or anyone else for that matter) but when I saw this thread I just cringed with the thought of another lock-down. With that said though I like that jcc64 posted this and said her say and I really hope she's enjoying her vacation.

skinkybaby replied:

punkeemunkee'smom replied:

Rocky aren't you just as guilty with statements like these..you have made it clear OVER and OVER again how immature the rest of us are...we get it Now can we just move on?

Boo&BugsMom replied:

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Point made, Abbie. But I don't think you're immature.

Insanemomof3 replied:
To me, it doesn't seem like personal opinions are being disrespected...it is normal to have your views question. If you believe your views are right, then you must be able to explain why you feel that way when someone asks. It is human nature to be curious and ask questions. If I don't understand why a person feels the way they do, I ask them. Or maybe I just don't get it, and read stuff wrong.

holley79 replied: Hope you are enjoying your vacation Jeanne.

luvmykids replied: ITA with your statment, don't agree that it always happens that way. I'm all for explaining myself when someone asks out of genuine curiosity, not so much when they're really wanting to debate who is right or wrong. (And I'm not being member specific here )

Perception is reality

Insanemomof3 replied: I understand what you are saying, and I agree.

gr33n3y3z replied:
I hope your having a great time Jeanne
We did and were home now

redchief replied: Jeanne, we must have passed by you yesterday on our way home from our vacation. I hope you're having a wonderful time, and I also hope you're able to adjust to full-time student status easily enough. I envy you going back to school.

MyLuvBugs replied:

EVERYONE is entitled to state their opinion without being criticized or down graded for it. Even if that opinion is not one that you might happen to agree with. However, when a member seems to constantly grab out certain other members and picks at their opinions making them feel like they are wrong in feeling the way they feel or that their opinion is just plain "wrong"...then how is that fair and "adult"?

And to be perfectly honest, IMO the problem isn't necessarily the same member/poster, but the attitude in which they make a post. There are SEVERAL members, and yes even moderators, of this board, not just Jennifer, that make posts that come across as being snotty, or high and mighty know-it-all-ish, almost as if they are taking a defensive position right from the get go expecting an argument. Then when another member just happens to state that they might have a different out-look on the situation, the original poster comes back even more defensive, criticizing and berating the person just for stating how they feel. How is that acting like an "adult"?

Personally, the double standard that seems to go on with some posts is just sickening to me. I'm so tired of people telling me that I'm "wrong" with my opinions, and I'm pretty sure most members on here are tired of feeling the same way. So, earlier this week some of us finally stood up and took a defensive position all our own. True is was all against one individual, but we defended ourselves. Became strong women and held true to our beliefs. If it's "junior high" behavior to stand up to those that want to degrade, criticize, and offend then so be it, but personally I will not just sit by and be a doormat any more.

Now with that being said, I'm not trying to rally the troops or create a new argument. I'm simply stating my opinion as to why I came back on and voiced my feelings in recent matters. Hopefully, it will be respected.

gr33n3y3z replied:
I have been saying this for a long time as you can see things have not changed. I wish people would listen but they wont so I just move on and let them look like the fools.

Mommy2BAK replied: