What would you do if you got this letter - home from school?

redchief wrote: I need to set this up a little bit for everyone so they understand the context of the letter I'm going to reproduce here. Three years ago our town withdrew from a county library system and since NJ mandates tax rates to support a library system, our town felt it wasn't getting it's fair share from the county (I agreed with this decision). At the same time the elementary school was in bad need of upgrade and additional classroom and administrative space. It was decided to incorporate the school project into the new library building so that the school could benefit from the mandated tax windfall the town realized from withdrawing from the county. So, the library was built, as a separate entity, into the same building as the school. There is a school library section that is not open to the public, and the town library has it's own staff and hours just as any library has. Sorry that was long, but otherwise you wouldn't understand the context of the letter that came home today.

The letter:
"Dear Parents:

For the safety and security of your children we are requesting a permission note from you if your child is staying after school at the library. This will provide us with a list of students that are in the library after school hours. If we do not receive the permission note they will not be permitted in the library. Thanks you for your cooperation in this matter.

Sincerely,
Signature and name withheld"

We're talking about a public municipal library here. What would you do?

ETA, the typo in the letter above appears just as it did in the actual letter.

skinkybaby replied: Sign the permission form.

redchief replied:
Here's the sticking point. This isn't the only school children from our town attend, but the policy applies strictly to students in THAT school. AND we're not talking about a form here. They expect a note of permission for our kids to go to a public library. This library is NOT run by the school. It's run by the municipality. The school portion of the library is closed after school hours, and there's no one in the school administration office after hours. Do you still feel the same way?

CantWait replied: I'd be fighting that one. Stupid if you ask me, do they have to have permission to go to the mall??

skinkybaby replied: I don't know. I'd never leave my elementary school child at a public library alone anyway.
It might be a liability issue. I'd call the school and ask them for more information.

My3LilMonkeys replied: Tell them that if my kid wants to go to the library, the park, walmart, or anywhere else after school it's none of their darn business!

luvmykids replied: I don't get it....kids the same age as yours are in our public libraries all the time without parents sending permission slips.

Jamison'smama replied: I would be curious to hear their explanation because it doesn't make sense. It sounds like there are a lot of kids that migrate to the library from the school and they are wanting to control it. If a child from another school was in the library with a child from your school...they would only make your child leave?

redchief replied: We have a theory. The school and library are connected. There is one particular employee at the library that really doesn't seem to like kids very much. He's basically more of a curmudgeon than I am. We think he may have asked that the school try to curtail student attendance at the library after school so he doesn't have to deal with children. Understand that this is only a theory at this point.

I reprinted the entire content of the letter that came home, so there was no real explanation. The statement that the children's safety is the catalyst doesn't hold water because the kids get out at 3:20 PM, and the administration office stops answering the telephones at 3:30 and no one, with the exception of the janitors, can be found in the school after 4:00.

CantWait replied:
Ok, using your theory....................why the $^#& is he working at a library if he doesn't like kids??????

redchief replied:
That's exactly how I feel about it, Marie. Further, if the school knows this guy has a problem dealing with kids, why would they assuage his ego in this way?

Crystalina replied: I could see if there were fights or kids acting up and they may want to control that. I know some convenient stores here have signs that no more then 2 or 3 students are allowed in at one time.
Now if this is not the reason behind the letter then they need to explain more. If it's a public library then I don't get what the deal is if not for "control" methods. And really if that is the case they need to higher more staff/security because students that need to be there should not be put out. kwim?

Hillbilly Housewife replied: They might request permission for the child to skip out on taking regular transport (via school bus) but why would they need permission to go to a municipal library?

Couldn't they just walk out of the school, and then into the municipal library? This is assuming that there is a separate entrance to the municipal part of the library, and that the school portion of the library can be closed off from the general public, which from your comments above, I am assuming it is closed off.

That's just retarded. I would send them a letter simply stating:

"I acknowladge receipt of your letter, dated March whatever, 2007.

Please note that I will not be signing a permission slip for my child to go to the Blah Blah Library after shcool hours, on the basis that like any other member of our community, a parental permission is not required, as it is a public place.

Please note that in the event that my child is not permitted to enter the Blah Blah municipal library, please be aware that I consider it a disrespect to a member of our community, not to mention a case of discrimination due to my child's age. My child does not need a permission slip to enter a municipal library, just as my hcild does not need a permission slip to enter a store or a theatre.

Go Stuff yourself.

Sincerely, Ed."

CantWait replied:
I like that idea also.......

Kaitlin'smom replied: what? they want you to say its okay for your child to be in a public place? Ummm I would be asking questions, and how exactually will they controll this....oh let me paint a picture the guy who does not like kids is the door guard with a list of name, if your not on it you dont come in......boy that woudl feed his ego huh? Sorry Ed but I agree how stupid. I dont see how it can fly at all.

jcc64 replied: Doesn't really sound like the cranky library guy has a leg to stand on. Public space is public space- no different than a park or a sidewalk.

msoulz replied: Are they concerned that parents are just dumping the kids at the library instead of finding after school care? Or as I think someone else mentioned, the kids are staying there instead of getting on the bus to go home or child care? I can totally understand wanting to know if the parents are OK with this. And I can see the school wanting parent to acknowledge that their children are basically unsupervised after school. Especially elementary school kids!

If kids are coming from other schools then parents and/or caregivers are likely getting them there and know where they are. A school attached to a library will be viewed by some as free childcare.

JMHO.

lisar replied: Well at our public library there are always kids there with no parents. However if I got a letter like that then I wouldnt send them without me being there. Mine are also still young for me to be thinking like that. But that would just #@$@ me off if they sent that to me.

Boo&BugsMom replied: I would get to the point and ask them before you assume anything. It's easy to assume things, so I'd be calling whoever I needed to in order to get an answer. There may be some reasonable explanation somewhere that nobody has thought of.

julesmom replied:
This is exactly what I was thinking.

Calimama replied:
I totally agree!

gr33n3y3z replied:
Your right but its the library problem not the schools if children act up bc its not done during school hours. If they cant control children there then they shouldnt be working in there. What is wrong with saying *if you cant calm down I will have to call your mother* Older kids you will have to leave.

And yes you can enter from the school into the library only with a key the door stays locked 24/7 only the teachers have a key to enter or they have to pick it up from the office not sure how that works.


And the library has a seperate entrance for the public

Boo&BugsMom replied: Perhaps the library asked for some help from the school?

gr33n3y3z replied:
thats what I'm thinking also
But still the school has no say in the matter
If the library has the problem they should send letters out not the school
now you see where the problem lays

redchief replied:
In addition to that, veiling an attempt to correct poor behavior in kids in a public place by using the school administration as the tough guys is just plain wrong. I know you're all wondering what I did, aren't you?

And you all want me to tell you, don't you?

luvmykids replied:
Duh! Come on, spill!

redchief replied: Only Monica wants to know? Fine!

On Friday morning I mailed this letter to the school administration:

"Dear name removed:

Today I received your letter requesting a permission note from us if our child is staying after school in the library. You may be aware that city students participate in any number of free time activities outside of school, but the letter leads me to believe you may not be well informed in this area. Common after school destinations for students include friends’ homes, the city Community Center, city recreation fields, and even no particular destination at all (also known as “hanging out”). My concern is that you feel the school needs to be informed when our children decide to make the municipal library their after school destination. In my experience as a parent, this destination ranks high on most parental lists of places where we’d like to see our children outside of school. The library is staffed by professional adults, educated in assisting children with research and focus of interests.

Of greater concern to me is the tone of the letter in which it seems that school administration feels it has the authority to regulate and account for the presence of young people in the municipal library, a public facility. While I understand the concern school administrators may feel toward the well-being of the children both in and out of school, I remind you that the city Public Library is not a school entity, any more than the city Recreation Department is affiliated with the school. School administration neither has responsibility or a legal basis for maintaining a list regarding our children’s whereabouts outside of school hours. Perhaps the basis for the school’s concern is the fact that the library is attached to the school building. The physical location of the public library should have no bearing upon what happens there after school is dismissed. I am hopeful that this letter will cause administration to reconsider this action and retract this policy immediately. Regardless, I have no intention of complying with your demand to place my child on a list of after school library attendees on those days she may go there.

My daughter, Kaitlin, always informs us of her whereabouts at all times, as any minor child should. Where she goes and what she does outside of school is of no concern to school administration unless her activities cause her grades to falter. Should that happen, I expect to resolve such problems as we always have, through discussion with affected teachers and administrators in a conference setting. Should you have any questions, or wish to discuss this further, please feel free to contact me. Thank you.


Yours truly,"
redchief

Italics are where personal or location information was removed for this posting. The letter included all mediums for them to contact me, and was copied to the chief school administrator and the president of the board of education.

amymom replied: I had not made the time to comment on this topic before now. It seemed to me that you, Ed and Lisa had a good handle on what to do about this. Now that I see your response, I know that I was right. You guys are such good parents!

redchief replied:
Aww, thanks

luvmykids replied: Very well spoken, Ed. I'd expect nothing less from you Let us know how they respond!

redchief replied: We've already started networking with the other local parents on this. One mom, after receiving the letter, went to the library and asked the library supervisor if he knew of the letter. He was quite surprised. Apparently he had mentioned that two boys had an altercation in the library one day after school. His intention was to inform the school administration informally, since the boys were in the same class. He said he never expected her to set a policy because he mentioned a problem to a school admin. He is apparently quite mortified about what he feels is over-reaction by the school admin, and in agreement with a growing group of parents who are greatly concerned about this.

A&A'smommy replied: Well I read the thread but I had no idea what to say I don't really have kids in school but it also made NO sense to me at all!! Anyway great letter and I think you guys are handling it wonderfully!!

Our Lil' Family replied: I very well could be wrong here but it was always my understanding that the school was liable for every student until he/she arrived at his/her after school destination. IF that is the case then I would assume they are trying to cover their derrières by getting a note from the parent stating that their child's "after school destination" is in fact the public library. Again, I could be wrong but that was always my understanding.

ETA: I was reading this again and thought, if that was the case wouldn't they have to have a note every time a student went somewhere other than home? So now I'm not so sure about my statement. I can just remember hearing from our administrators about going straight home if we drove or walked b/c they are still responsible for us until we get where we need to be.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
As far as I'm concerned, the schools are only responsible if the children take the transportaion the school provides...... my child takes school provided transportation, and designated adults are the ones that pick him up at the bus stop. If the designated adults (or none at all) are not the ones at the stop, my child does not get released off the bus, and is returned to the school, where the parents are contacted immediately. If this happens three times, transportation will no longer be provided for that child.

Elementary schools, anyways.

Middle schools and high schools, the schools aren't required to keep track of the kids for transport purposes, other than noting whether the kid is on the bus or not. If not, a note or phone call will be given to the parents just on an info basis, if the shcool didn't receive a warning. An example would be, someone going over to a friends house takes the friends bus - well on the kid's bus, there will be a "missing" note, and on the friend's bus, there will be a "+1" note for that stop.

Generally though, high schools around here don't provide transportation, but they do provide the basic cost for public transportation. Bus passes that is. The regular kind, for students. You can swap them out for Express passes for an additional fee. Cheaper on a monthly basis then paying for the school busses

redchief replied: Schools here are responsible for the children until they leave school property, which includes, by extension, bus transportation. The bus is only responsible to leave the child at his or her drop off point though.