What would you do?

lisar wrote: Say you could get your child into one of the TOP rated private schools in your area for free. But you had to lie a little to get the scholorship. Would you do it? It a little lie. Actually not really a lie, just not telling the whole truth.

What would you do?

cameragirl21 replied: could you elaborate a little, like what the lie is about and if anyone would be hurt by your telling it?

Calimama replied: No. Karma sucks.

moped replied: Yeah, I think we need more details......

BAC'sMom replied: Two wrongs don’t make a right. That's what Mom always said.

Besides I would get caught.

lisar replied: Okay to elaborate a little more

Me and dh file our taxes seperate. I could get a scholorship for Lexi with just his income cause he claims her every year, my income wouldnt be on there just his. And thats all they need to see to be able to verify income. So I wouldnt give them mine. KWIM?

coasterqueen replied:
Hmmm, so would they ask if you are a SAHM instead? And that's where the lie is?

Boo&BugsMom replied: No I would not. Sooner or later they will ask questions and the truth will come out, only to come back and bit you in the arse!

Calimama replied:
So it's a scholarship for lower income families?

If so no way. You could be taking the slot from someone who really does only have 1 income.

Sheesh I can't spell today.

cameragirl21 replied: so the lie is that you don't work and/or have no income?
hmmmm, that would be easy to check out and if you get caught....
where does the scholarship money come from?

stella6979 replied:
I absolutely agree.

gr33n3y3z replied:
No
I see that happening here in our school and they get caught then the kids get kicked out of school and the parents walk the road of shame like all the others do when they get caught.
Dont do that to your child its so not worth it even tho it does sound very nice but they all get caught

coasterqueen replied:
That's what I would be worried about. They can find out if they really want to and it hurts the child more in the long run.

lisar replied: There really is no lie, they wouldnt ask about me because we file our taxes seperate so according to them I live at a diffrent address. KWIM?
As far as someone who needs it not getting it, well lots of kids every year get kicked out of the program because they cant hold the grades they have to, Lexi could and would. So why doesnt she deserve a chance. With my income added to it we are only $2000.00 over the limit. Suprisingly the limit is high so most families with 2 incomes qualify anyways. The funding for the scholorship is thru the actual school. They give out 250 of these a year.

I wont do it though. I am a little scared of getting busted although I dont think I would get busted.

mom21kid2dogs replied:
Exactally!

coasterqueen replied:
So since you are over the limit by $2,000, you have to pay full tuition then? Or is there a decreased level just because you are barely over?

Crystalina replied: Lisa, I think Karma does suck and everything that goes wrong in my life is linked back (in my head ) to something I've done wrong, a bad thought I had or a sharp tongue I should have softened up. <--- That last one is my biggest issue.

But...your child only has one chance at a good education. With that said, I say do what you want to. I think I would do it for my kids and not because I wanted to deceive anyone. kwim? I think I would totally do it and chance it. I don't know. That's a tough one.

cameragirl21 replied: Lisa, I do see what you're saying as far as only your dh claiming her, etc. My only concern would be that if you get caught, it will be SO embarrassing to Lexi and there would be no good way to explain it to her other than to tell her that you told a lie...otherwise she'd think it was something she did wrong.
How about this--approach the school and tell them the truth and explain your situation, the tough economic sitch, etc and ask if they would take Lexi's academics into account, as I know she is a very good student and really deserves to be at this school. Just tell them your honest opinion--that she's a really good student, was tested for a gifted program and that you feel that no public school will really help her realize her full potential. That your income is just out of reach for their scholarship criteria but would they still consider her based on other factors. Maybe even offer that she "work" as a librarian's assistant or something to that effect for a couple hours a week or so just so they can see how much you and she want to be at this school. I believe if you show good faith and a strong desire to be at the school and to excel academically, they will still seriously consider giving her the scholarship.
Maybe even have Lexi write a letter (with your help) to the board explaining her situation and expressing how much she'd love an opportunity to attend this school. Stepping outside the box and having a little bit of chutzpah, along with sincerity can take you a long way, it's worked for me before.

mom21kid2dogs replied:
I guess if you feel strongly about her attending you could make it happen on the up and up rather than not. I don't say that lightly either. I just say it as a parent who does with ALOT less to send our child to a private school. If I found out about someone doing what you are proposing, I would be more than a little upset. Aside from tuition, we support the school in a number of other ways including additional support to the tuition assistance fund because we believe strongly in helping others who need it. As a result of this, there are plenty of things we sacrafice so that another person might be able to send their child their, too. People (not saying you) have a very skewed perception of where the money comes from and for whom. If children can't meet the grade standards and lose their spots, the school should re evaluate it's entrance criteria. It's not an excuse for someone to forge info to get a spot.

MoonMama replied: Nope!

I'd find another way, to get her in and pay for it.

Boys r us replied: I think that there are other ways to get a good education for your daughter than to teach her to be deceitful in order to get the scholarship, kwim?

Boo&BugsMom replied:
But they would find out. Sooner or later they'll realize you all live under the same roof, file seperately, and then they will start to ask questions...I'm pretty sure after awhile they will put two and two together.

CantWait replied: KARMA!!!!!

I wouldn't do lie. Not only because of Karma, but it's just plain wrong. Me lieing is just preventing someone who needs it, and has all the qualifications.

CantWait replied:
WOW can you tell I'm sleep deprived and absulotely exhausted

My3LilMonkeys replied: I would not.

moped replied: So if you don't lie she can't go to this school at all? Or you just have to pay for her to go?

A&A'smommy replied: Absolutely not, for me I would be thinking what am teaching my child PLUS what money am I taking away from someone who truly needs it.

Nina J replied: I wouldn't do it.

I would assume that if you did lie, and they found out, there would be repercussions, such as you having to pay back the money, etc.

Plus, I wouldn't feel good about myself if I knew I had knowingly deceived them.

Cece00 replied: In this sort of situation, no I wouldnt lie.

They probably check into that sort of thing- its very easy for them to run your SS# through your state's DOL.

lisar replied:
Correct I would have to pay $956.00 a month for her to go this school. Thats ALOT of money. And the higher the grade the higher the cost.

lisar replied:
They can run all that if they want to. It wont come back to where dh lives with the kids. KWIM?

lisar replied:
I wouldnt be teaching her that, she wouldnt know at all. As far as she would know I was paying for it. And if I ever got caught she would never know why, I would just tell her I couldnt afford it anymore. So there would be no embarasment for her at all.

cameragirl21 replied: Well, Lisa, if you feel they can't find out and feel strongly about sending her there then do it. At the end of the day, we all look out primarily for our own interests and obviously even more so for the interests of children. It doesn't sound like anyone will be directly hurt by this and like I said, if you feel strongly they won't find out then go for it.
Lexi is a smart girl and deserves the best education possible and that is unlikely to happen in any Duval County public school as far as I have heard.

lisar replied:
Very true. Duval county public schools are HORRIBLE!!!!!! She is in one of the best as far as public schools but next year they are swapping them because they changed the boundaries and she will be going to a bad one then, that I dont want to send her to.

mom21kid2dogs replied:
So it's only wrong to lie if you get caught? It's OK to be decietful if you have a "good enough" reason? (It's deciet by omission, not comission) Those are the lessons here if you do it, whether it gets known this time or the next. What it really comes down to is a blurring of your personal moral line. I think you felt that strongly when you made the original post and were just looking for justification to cross it. If you didn't have a personal moral issue with it, I doubt there would be any reason for your post. The problem with blurring the line and/or crossing it is the next time you want to do it, it's way easier. That's why we come down so strongly on our children when they lie. Many times their lies are harmless and even silly but they need to learn that it's wrong to lie, period. We know if we let them tell lies, it becomes a habit. The biggest reinforcer to this habit is when someone "gets away with it"~what a great payoff. What defines a person's true character or integrity is how they act when no one's looking, when there's no earthly payoff to do the right thing. That would be the lesson I'd like to leave my child with.

Are their only 2 options in your county for education~public or "the top rated private school in the area"? Options that are more affordable, yet better educationally than the public school. Some schools also let you trade skills for tuition. They do that quite a bit at our school. The PE teacher's children go at a drastically reduced rate as a trade off for his service. The person who maintains the school website gets a 25% tuition break. Have you seen what bartering they might allow as a trade off for tuition?

A&A'smommy replied:
I completly and 100% agree with this!!!

lisar replied:
My options for school here are public or private. All the private schools here are so overly priced the only people that can afford them are top business people. The cheapest private school around here is atleast $700.00 a month. I cant afford that. I have a mortgage, 2 cars, lights, food, phone, etc.... I have tried to figure every way possible to cut back to afford it, but with my hours at work being cut and the economy the way it is, I just cant afford it. So why not go after a scholorship

I was not asking for anyones approval on this, it was an option that was presented to me and I was thinking about it. I know 2 other people who have this scholorship, yes they meet the guidlines, barley but they meet them. Not for long though cause one of the kids are being kicked out after this year cause they cant hold the B average.

And alot of the comments you made are hurtful, you dont know me and my situation and what I have went thru with Lexi's education. Lexi is a gifted child and I think she deserves the chance at a better education than the ones the public schools will give her. I live where the public schools are some of the worst in the country. Literally. Our schools are graded A-F every year. 90% of the schools in Duval county are a D or F school. I just happen to have her in one right now that is an A school. One of the very few. Our distrcits change next school year and she will be going to an F school. How am I supposed to feel about that. What if it were your child loosing out on an education all because of your moral values? You would think twice about it, if you couldnt afford to pay for it.

And I never said it was "OKAY" to lie about it. I just wanted some opinions on it, not for everyone to jump down my throat about it and question my moral values. I never asked for anyones approval or disapproval, I was really just curious on what everyone else would do.

Bottom line is I will do what I feel is right to do.

And if this offends you then I apologize, but your reply offended me alot.

lisar replied:
Thanks Crystal you and one other person who PM'd me are the only people that would even consider it, which is what I am doing. I am just considering it.

coasterqueen replied: I didn't read all replies, but I think at least the majority was just saying what they would do and why they would do it, which is what you asked opinions for.

I think about these types of things, because it could happen in our area at any time. It has in certain areas of our district anyways. We have a very small town school and it happens all the time that small town schools combine, which I don't like. This has been a heated debate among my friends and I for, well, ever since Kylie was born.

I do know, for me personally, I've told my husband that if we get redistricted into the city public school system I will either 1) pay the higher tuition to go to another school whether it be public or private or 2) move. I know we couldn't afford out of district tuition or private, but I'm willing to sell everything in my house if need be to do so - that's just me. That would all be easier for me than the second option which is move, because our land has been in our family for generations and DH and I built our home with our blood, sweat and tears.

NOW, I am not saying you should do everything you had to (selling everything) to pay tuition. I am simply telling you what *I* would do, because of all the soul searching I've done on this issue in our district. I am not saying that is what you should do, that you are less of a person for not doing so, or that you are less of a person for telling lies.

Only YOU, only you can live with your decisions. Yes, others can tell you what they can live with and what they can't, but you are the only one who looks at yourself in the mirror every day. No one else. So no matter what others say they would do and how those opinions might hurt you, remember it really doesn't matter in the end because you have to live with your decisions, not them.

lisar replied:
Thank you. And I really dont have anything I could "sell" to pay tuition I could sell all of my 4-wheelers and that wouldnt pay but some of the tution cost and I couldnt pay for the rest. dh works 2 jobs now as it is to pay the bills. My mortgage payment jumped almost $400.00 this year so that came unexpectedly as well. (dont ask long story, my mistake that I didnt know about till they told me) So I am barley making ends meet at this point.

And thank you for the reply

Crystalina replied:
Lisa, do it. People do this stuff all the time. Does it make it right? No. But it's your child and her education. She isn't a goof-off. She wants to go to school to learn. With her grades thats very obvious. I do not make it a habit of doing things like this but if I were in your shoes your darn straight I would. If the schools are as bad as you say then do it. If you get caught then deal with that bridge when you cross it. It's your daughters education! It's not like your stealing clothes to make her look good. It's really sad that to get a better education in this country you have to pay crazy $.

We have a very, very good pre-school in our district (part of Izabella's elementary school) and to get in there is a very long list. When kids get in there there is no getting or hoping to get a spot. They don't budge. Evan has been on the list for 3 yrs and never made it in. Now he's ready for Kindergarten. That's how long the list is. Your kid will be in Kindergarten before their name comes up on the pre-school list. Anyway, I was told by many, many parents to say that he had a learning problem, or had seperation issues, there was a list of "problems" your kid could have to move up onto the list but I didn't do it because I didn't want my son to be "labeled" just to get him into the class. But there were other moms I knew who did lie to get their kids in sooner. I didn't hate them for doing it or for making it harder for my son to get in. They had jobs to go to and basically needed their kids to be there. I'm a SAHM and I just drove Evan to a different school in another town. What they did is really no different then what your wanting to do. Your daughter "needs" this for her education and they "needed" to know their kids were in a good school while they worked (the preschool is all day everyday).

If you do get caught you may have to pay something back,have a "meeting" with the Admin. and put her back into a regular school. They aren't going to brand either of you or announce over the loud speaker or put it in the paper. I'm sure you aren't the first to do this. Whether it's right or wrong, I believe that sometimes (for your kids) you have to do what you have to do. You can still look her in the eye and tell her it's wrong to lie. She doesn't have to know. And if she finds out tell her the truth and why you did it. There's a difference in being hateful/hurtful in a lie and doing something like this.

MommyToAshley replied: I know it sucks to be middle class -- if you are in the higher income brackets, then private school is easily affordable. If you are at the poverty level, then low income scholarships are available. But, if you are middle class, then you have to decide how much of a priority education is to your family, and then you have to suck it up and make sacrifices to be able to afford it. That's what we do. We give up a lot in order to be able to send Ashley to private school. In my opinion, it is worth every sacrifice we make. We do without a lot of the extras. However, in answer to your question, no I would not lie in order to get the scholarship.

Crystalina replied: I just realized that in my last post (first sentence) I sounded like the devil on your shoulder while poking you with my hot pointer.

lisar replied:


Funny. lol

coasterqueen replied:
Ouch! That hot pointer hurts.

boyohboyohboy replied: Lisa, as you know I agree it does sound like a lot of fingers pointing at you here.. I think a lot of us want to believe that we would take the high ground here, but most of us would do just about anything for our kids. I know you are a good person and you want what is best for lexi so she can get a good start in life. you have considered other avenues, there just arent any.
I know we all have to live with the decisions we make at the end of the day we are all going to be held accountable for them..but making lisa feel like she is just the worst decietful person in the world for considering it is just horrible.

there are plenty of ways of stating no you wouldnt consider it, without attacking her for even thinking of it.

whether its right or wrong isnt really my issue its how mean this post turned on lisa.
I am so thankful that a lot of you are not put in these positions of make decisions like this..what happened to the loving friendly understanding board I was so used to.

the OP was would you do it...not do you think I am a horrible person for thinking about it...

cameragirl21 replied: one thing to bear in mind is that moral values are personal and not transferrable...for instance, I think it's immoral to eat meat but many disagree with me on that...doesn't mean either of us is necessarily lacking in morals but rather that our moral compasses differ.
That being said, I just want to point out that for some, lying about this or not telling the whole truth is crossing a moral boundary while for others, not making every possible effort to secure their children the best education ever is crossing a moral boundary. Just something to keep in mind before we judge others.
Another thing to remember is that while we all "know" each other, we, for the most part don't really know each other and we should also keep that in mind before passing judgments...an important lesson I learned on this forum.
As for lying, do you tell your kids there is a Santa Claus and a tooth fairy? If so then you are lying and when they get older, they'll know you lied to them. A harmless lie but still a lie, right? How do we know that Lisa's plan is any less harmless? It's not as if she is knowingly taking the spot from someone else. 250 scholarship spots...how do we know there are 250 kids that are academically viable for this school AND lower income? We don't know that. Also, she is just 2k over the limit, I'd say she's good to go, personally.
JMO of course.

cameragirl21 replied:
well said, Stacy, thanks...my sentiments exactly.

MommyToAshley replied:
I didn't read all the posts, but I don't think anyone meant to make Lisa feel horrible. She asked what others would do, and people stated what they would do and why or why not. When you ask for an opinion you can't expect to get only the opinion you want to hear, but I don't think anyone was judging Lisa. I certainly wasn't. I was just simply stating what I would do or not be willing to do.

Sure, there are lots of people that lie about income to get ahead a lot of different ways, but what I don't think people realize is that there are other ways to make it affordable. The little things add up -- eating out, cell phones, cable, buying walmart clothes versus name brand clothes, driving an old car versus a new car, etc. It's a matter of examining those things and deciding if paying for private school is more important than those things.

lisar replied: I just wanted to say Thank you to Stacy, Jennifer and Crystal.


And for the record, yes people on here were judging me on this thread, and I never expected for everyone to think I would be right in what I was asking.

my2girls replied: Another option ( which no one mentioned) is homeschooling/distance learning.
Most homeschooling programs are free and she could even do independent learning through the school she attended.

I know you work, but you said it was for family, I think? Maybe Lexi could do her work along side of you in your office?
I did that when my kids were in 2nd and 4th grade ( we owned a business) and they worked in one of the offices. I only had to be there from 8:30 am-2 pm, but it worked great for us.

Also have you even been to her new school yet ? Talk to the teachers, she where she might be at. It could be a F school but have caring teachers that will help her.
Smart/gifted children will succeed no matter where they are at, as long as they want to succeed and their parents help them do that.

My2Beauties replied: I think it's easy for me to sit here and say it may not be the absolute "right" thing to do since it's a small white lie but I can't sit here and say I wouldn't do it if it were my children because it was a small white lie. It's not like you're lying to get on gov't assistance and will be living off of it. This is your child's education for pete's sake. Honestly, I think I would do it if it were me. DH and I file our taxes together though so I would have no chance at being able to do it but...you catch my drift If I were in your shoes...I think I'd go ahead and do it.

mom21kid2dogs replied: I didn't find your reply to be offensive nor do I see my reponse to you as being so. A suggestion, though. If you are truly only interested in a yes or no answer with no embellishment a better format to go with might be to form your question under the format of a "poll" with no response as an option. Then you will only get the information you desire to get. Just an idea that might be less personalized than an open ended "WWYD" question.