Were there alot of non English speaking - kids at your childs school?

mckayleesmom wrote: Does your school offer programs for them to learn?

I was really suprised at the number of non speaking english students at Mckaylee's school registration.

There were about 8 or 9 out of 15 kids that didn't speak english. There were some spanish and there were a pair of twin girls from Africa that spoke some language I can't even remember, but it wasn't anything I've heard of before...neither spoke any english and couldn't understand it either. The dad spoke some.

Im wondering if they offer a program for them. I remember when I was in elementary the kids were in with regular classrooms and then for a couple hours a day they went to another classroom together to work on learning english. Does your schools offer this?

I know the teachers advised the parents to start letting the kids watch American television to learn a little....but no mention of a class to help.

TANNER'S MOM replied: Yes, they have ESL.. English as a second language that helps them learn English.

maestra replied: In many areas, most teachers are certified in teaching English as a Second Language, or ELD (English Language Development) which is the new popular term. (I am certified in both ESL and Bilingual Education) This is usually done within the classroom, rather than as a pull-out program. Some states still allow a pull-out program, if the number of ELL (English Language Learner) students is low over an entire school, but it's honestly not the best way to teach kids to speak English.

The methods used in ELD are not that different than used in regular kindergarten classrooms- they focus on getting the children to practice using the words in English and expressing their thoughts, feelings and ideas in English. Which, given the nature of 5-6 year olds and speech, is really good for all children (for example, learning to speak in complete sentences, rather than phrases). The contexts are social situations, in addition to what they are learning in class (stories the teacher reads, science experiences, etc). One thing that I do when my students are discussing something they did in a science experiment is I repeat back what the child has tried to say in correct English, in a complete sentence, to make sure that I understand their point. This models the correct way of speaking for everyone.

Jaci was in a classroom that had 20 children, 15 of which were ELL students. She did very well, and her teacher was really able to help her overcome some of her shyness and explain her thoughts in a cohesive way which made sense. She also picked up quite a bit of Spanish, but that was because we encouraged it not only in talking with her, but encouraged her teacher (who I know speaks Spanish) to teach her some basic vocabulary and phrases when appropriate. She became and excellent writer in her class, and is on grade level in math, and still very high in reading like she always was.

Hope that helps!

boyohboyohboy replied: I was on the other end of this issue this year with caleb once we moved. we came to a smaller town, where the work here is seasonal, so most of the kids came from spanish speaking homes, out of 13 kids, 10 spoke spanish. caleb fell way behind in what he should have known at his age, because the teacher had to go so much slower for the other kids. they also spent lots more time on things that he already knew because the other kids just couldnt understand..
we were really unhappy with the school and the teacher..
we have since moved caleb for his first grade to a new school

mckayleesmom replied:
I have to admit that I'm kind of worried about this scenerio. I guess I just have to wait and see how it pans out. Hopefully the kids have learned some basics in the last couple months.

The 2 twin girls from Africa were so timid and shy and I'm afraid alot had to do with the fact that they didn't know how to communicate with the teachers as well as understand them. The father left the room to go fill out some paperwork and they completely fell to pieces without him translating for them.

boyohboyohboy replied:
we really kept a close eye on what he was bringing home and what he was being taught and i emailed the teacher a lot and talked to her..thats how we knew what was going on in the class..she spent most of the day with the kids in front of a leap frog video (yes TV!) that he learned when he was three..
so we moved him into another school, but keep an eye on it..
i do feel bad for the other kids, but I cant let calebs education fail because of them.
There should be another class just for kids who cant speak the language to help them adjust and feel less scared. i mean school is scarey enough without not knowing what anyone is saying..how do you even ask for help?

AlexsPajamaMama replied: We have a large amount of samalians in our area. They have moved here in the past 5yrs. I know the adults do not speak very much english if any at all. And Im sure there will be samalian kids at school with alex. I know schools here have ESL. When I was in elementary there were alot of spanish kids whos parents worked at the local egg farm where I grew up.

maestra replied:
I'm sorry you had such a bad experience- it seems like that teacher really didn't know how to teach the ESL kids either. Sticking kids in front of a video is never good, and drilling them on vocabulary isn't going to help. They need real opportunities to practice using language.

As for putting them in another class- they'll never learn the language if they never have a chance to practice it with kids that speak English. Plus, young children are much different than adults. Play is a universal language, and kids quickly learn how to express some basic needs to each other in different languages. Also, kids who have older brothers and sisters who have already been to school have often picked up more English than those who do not, and some have parents who speak more English and have taught them some (as well as tv- there aren't really any good cartoons in Spanish). Those students are helpful in helping students with very limited English acclimate.

A good, quality, teacher will not sacrifice the needs of some students to meet the needs of others. This is one thing to watch for. This is not the fault of the ESL students, or the program, but the teacher. We are taught from college on to differentiate instruction to meet the needs of all (which is really just a fancy way of saying giving kids different projects or assignments to meet their needs, or creating activities that allow for a range of abilities and help all students progress).

My advice would be to keep an eye on her and her learning, and ask the teacher if you see anything that concerns you. Put the focus on your child, not on the 'other kids'. I hope that makes sense.

mckayleesmom replied:
I would never blame the children...they deserve an education. I was just wondering if they do one on one help with them seperately too.

maestra replied:
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you would- I wondered if what I wrote would make total sense, being that my kids are running around screaming after having been sick for two days!

I just meant that if you end up having any problems of that nature, approaching the teacher from that viewpoint will help you to make sure that her needs get met. That way, if the teacher is focusing only on the ESL students, that would bring his/her attention back to your child. Hope that made more sense!

Oh! And in Az, it's not one on one help, unless there are so few ELL students within a school that only one or two teachers per school were warranted (ie only 12 students within an entire school). That's the standard for most of the country, so it depends on your area and how many ELL students you have at the school and at each grade level.

luvmykids replied: There were a few, for the first few months of school there was an ESL teacher in the class along with their regular teacher to help, the ESL kids picked it up pretty quickly and she wasn't needed after that. I was suprised, kids I couldn't say more than hello to on the first day of school were quite the conversationalists by Christmas break

cameragirl21 replied: when I started school here I didn't speak English and I went to a school where they taught in both English and Hebrew and I didn't speak either. There were no special programs and I was the only one in my class who couldn't communicate. I don't recall it being particularly traumatic...I learned both English and Hebrew within a month and was the loudest one in the class by the time the first month passed. Initially, the teacher told my mom she was concerned that I was so quiet and "shy" till one month passed and she couldn't get me to shut up.
I wouldn't worry, the other kids will catch on, I sure did.

sunrosejenn replied: Not sure how it is in the schools here. But we do have allot of spanish speaking children in this area. No clue if they offer classes for ESL for them or not. At least I have not heard of any classes or programs for ESL for this type of situation.

But I do have a vent about this. I was 5 when we moved from Germany to the US (moved here in 1980). I spoke very little english. I was held back a year in school because I didn't speak allot of English. And now a days they just put kids in the proper grade and advance them with all the other kids whether they can speak English properly or not. I'm sorry but this irks me to pieces.

Boo&BugsMom replied: We have about approx. 18 elementary schools in our city district alone. Out of those schools a small(er) percentage have ESL classes and Spanish speaking only classes. Like Jennifer explained above, we also have those situations where there are not any classes such as that and the kids are pretty much forced into learning English...and they do within a pretty small amount of time. The Spanish speaking only classes have lower test scores and the ones that do not offer it have higher test scores, even for the kids who didn't know English right away. You'd think they'd realize what is better for the kids and look at the higher test scores. Dar! I am really touchy about this subject so I will try to keep it short, but IMO, if a child doesn't learn the language early on then they will fall further behind. "Coddling" them into learning English at a slow pace doesn't do anything from what I have seen first hand. Having a ESL assistant or something of the like is fine and needed I can see, but Spanish-speaking only classes where they aren't even being transitioned into English classes??? Ridiculous, IMO, and really provides the children a disservice. I am actually pretty happy with Tanner's school. They do not have any Spanish only speaking classes and the kids that come in without any English are pretty much forced and learn it within a few months. By the end of the year they are on track with everyone else in the class. Heck, they even get ahead of some kids who only speak English. If other kids from other countries (like Germany, Italy, France, etc.) can come over and learn English right away, why can't the others? Makes no sense to me. Again, JMO.

grapfruit replied: Honestly the only kids in my school that didn't speak English as a first language were the exchange students (in HS) and they all spoke English pretty well. A couple of them still live in the US.

Now that I moved closer to the IN border I am a little culture shocked actually. The 35 mile move and this town has a fairly large population of Mexicans (from Mexico). There's a town about 15 miles away that I would say is a good 35-40% Mexican. A lot of my customers have to bring in translators. And seriously, the town just 25-30 min away has almost none.

I think it has to do w/the Ethanol plants they're building (2 w/in 30 miles) and there's a couple large tomato farms around here. I guess it's just a little strange b/c this is your typical "midwestern" farm land area. Corn corn corn and some soybeans as far as you can see.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
ITA. Also, with or without a language barrier, kids will always be on different levels. Tanner knew how to read at a point when he started school. Some kids didn't even know their alphabet. It's the job of the teacher to make sure ALL levels are being met. Tanner's teacher did this, and he was challanged, while other kids who were at a lower level were learning what they needed to learn. Sounds like the teacher wasn't doing this.

jcc64 replied: It is required by law that non-English speaking children be given a free and appropriate education. What form that takes varies from school to school. As Michelle mentioned, it is becoming increasingly common to educate as many children as possible within mainstream classrooms, and that includes children with all kinds of disabilities, not just those with language deficits. It sounds like some of the unfortunate experiences of native English speaking students mentioned in this thread were the responsibility of a teacher, perhaps educated before this became the trend or perhaps just wasn't a very good teacher. It's not easy to differentiate instruction to meet the demands of such a wide range of learning abilities, but that's the task of teachers today. Michelle's right- it's not the fault of the other students- and the only way to ensure that your own child's needs get met is to stay on top of the teacher and/or the school. If the teacher doesn't respond, go higher up.

MommyToAshley replied: There was one child in Ashley's class last year that Ashley instantly became friends with. It was a little oriental girl that spoke excellent English. The problem came when I tried to talk to the parents -- the parents didn't speak English at all. I had to ask the child to translate to ask the child over for a playdate. I found it amazing how well the little girl picked up on English but the parents barely spoke it. I do know that the little girl went to a class after Kindergarten (which was half-day) to help with her English, but I didn't think she needed it at all. If I hadn't met her parents then I wouldn't have had a clue that this was her second language.

jcc64 replied: This was undoubtedly the case with dh's family as well. He came here in 2nd grade, and in 3 months, he was speaking English fluently. His parents, who remained insulated in a large Korean community in NYC, never really picked up the language all that well (even to this day- 30+ yrs later). There is a cognitive as well as social reason that children pick up language quicker than adults. Every time we learn something new, neurons get connected inside the brain. But beyond a certain point, we actually lose the capacity to form them as completely. This is pretty scientific stuff, and I am sure I am garbling it somewhat, but the point is, the younger a child is, the easier it is to acquire new language skills. That's why the old model of waiting to introduce a second language until middle school makes no sense. Progressive models start kids right away, which makes much more sense, given this information.
And, as Michelle said, kids are different animals. They don't have the self-consciousness that adults do- I've seen my kids play with other kids with whom they can't speak, and it's true, play is the universal language. In no time, the kids are learning from one another. They also don't have the option of insulating themselves like their parents might. They have to attend school with English speakers. That's why segregating kids in a separate classroom really isn't a great idea, as was mentioned earlier in the thread.

lisar replied: Only certain schools here offer that. And if the child doesnt speak english then they have to go to one of those schools, they have to learn english as part of their curriculum.

punkeemunkee'smom replied: It is a rather large issue in our schools here.....

maestra replied:
You've got it! That's why there are many 'dual language' or 'dual immersion' programs across the country now. I used to teach one for second grade. I spoke only Spanish for half of the day, and only English for the other half. The students learned how to read and write in both languages, and the students in my class where half Spanish speakers and half English speakers. Some of the English speakers had better grammar and pronunciation than I did! I wish we had these programs so that I can put Jaci in- I really didn't speak much Spanish to her when she was younger.

As for Spanish only classes, that should never happen. In fact, it's a form of segregation. I taught at a school that called that 'bilingual education'. It's not the same thing. It finally took an Office of Civil Rights Complaint to force the school to stop. If there are no English speaking students in the class, they will never become bilingual, and will thus have lower test scores (although I do not judge the worth of a school or program on test scores alone- in fact, they are the last indicator I will look at- you wouldn't believe some of the things I have seen!).

In Maricopa County, the department of Ed, in it's divine wisdom has decided that we should segregate ELL students based on their language level. It's idiotic. So this fall, I will have a class of 20 students, all of whom are ELL, and at the lowest levels. No one, besides me, will speak English. And I'm supposed to help them exit the ELL program by the end of first grade (even though studies show it takes at least 5 years to become academically literate in a second language). Several parents, including myself, are considering filing a discrimination complain with the Office of Civil rights. In the ELL classrooms, students of the lowest levels cannot have any more than 22 students. Intermediate levels of speaking can have no more than 25. However, this leaves huge amounts of students in the mainstream classes (Jaci's will have 31). Plus, all of the best teachers are being used to teach this program, and brand new teachers are teaching the mainstream students. I don't want my daughter segregated. I don't know if anything will come of it, but if the county doesn't stop this stupidity, we have decided to move out of state in a year.