WINDSHIELD MESSAGE FROM A CHILD

natchie wrote:

> >One rainy afternoon I was driving along one of the

> >

> >main streets of town, taking those extra precautions

> >

> >necessary when the roads are wet and slick. Suddenly,

> >

> >my daughter, Aspen, spoke up from her relaxed position

> >

> >in her seat. "Dad, I'm thinking of something." This

> >

> >announcement usually meant she had been pondering some

> >

> >fact for a while, and was now ready to expound all

> >

> >that her six-year-old mind had discovered. I was eager to hear.

> >"What are you thinking?" I asked.

> >

> >"The rain;" she began, "is like sin, and the

> >

> >windshield wipers are like God wiping our sins away."

> >

> >After the chill bumps raced up my arms I was able to

> >

> >respond. "That's really good, Aspen."

> >

> >Then my curiosity broke in. How far would this little

> >

> >girl take this revelation? So I asked... "Do you

> >

> >notice how the rain keeps on coming? What does that

> >

> >tell you?"

> >

> >Aspen didn't hesitate one moment with her answer: "We

> >

> >keep on sinning, and God just keeps on forgiving us."

> >

> >I will always remember this whenever I turn my wipers

> >

> >on. Isn't it distressing to know that when you forward

> >

> >this message you will not send it to many on your

> >

> >address list because you're not sure what they

> >

> >believe, or what they will think of you for sending it

> >

> >to them. Funny how I can be more worried about what

> >

> >other people think of me than what God thinks of me.

> >

> >Are you thinking? Are you going to send it to two

> >

> >people?

> >

> >Are you going to send it at all? Or, are you just

> >

> >going to delete this very profound message?

> >

> >If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it.

Kirstenmumof3 replied: That is so sweet! Thank You for sharing it!

natjasem replied: That is a great story! THanks!

Schnoogly replied: Um, I have to say that I am a little disappointed by the strong religious content here...I don't agree that humans are inherently sinful and think it's a horrible thing to teach to a child. And I don't push my atheism on anyone here...plus this is a secular parenting board. I didn't mind the Judge Moore debate because it was timely and debatable but this isn't.

I know to many this is a "nice story" but it isn't for me.

Sorry to offend.

kimberley replied: thanks for sharing that sweet story Natchie

schnoogly: while i can appreciate where u are coming from that this is not something u agree with, what i always thought was great about this board is that we accept each others differences. there have been a few posts i don't exactly agree with, but i just move on or don't read them. JMHO, definitely not trying to offend.

Schnoogly replied: I guess the thing is that I feel that more conservative viewpoints are more accepted here. And I couldn't tell from the title of this that I was about to be preached to, or else I wouldn't have read it.

I just feel in the minority much of the time and it makes me feel uncomfortable and afraid to say what I really think.

kimberley replied:

I am so sorry you feel that way I enjoy reading your posts and i think you are a very passionate person and would hate to see that change for any reason. we are always here for you!

A&A'smommy replied: wow that is a VERY smart kid!

kit_kats_mom replied:
Nope, you arent' in the minority. I just read stuff like this, think "well I hope it helps/inspires someone" and leave it at that.

TLCDad replied: I am not offended and hope no one gets offended here. DW and I are both Christian. But we are never bias. This website is open to all "friendly" Religions and views. However, as with most Parenting websites we are linked from several Christian related websites which I hope does not offend anyone.

MommyToAshley replied: Schnoogly,
I started to PM you, but I thought that there might be others that felt the same way.
I am sorry you felt offended or uncomfortable, I am sure that was not the intention. As TLCDad said, we are Christians, but we welcome everyone here and we are not judgemental. The one thing I like about this board is that we can all learn from each other... even if we do not agree with each other. It's just like a real family, we don't always see eye to eye on every issue, but we still care for one another. I really enjoy reading your posts and hearing about Iain, as well as some of your opinions on the off-topic posts. And, I respect your right to say how you feel. Thanks for being part of the family here!

Kaitlin'smom replied:
I agree with you....


I dont mind people posting things with religon but some warning about the content cause its not for everyone would be nice, so that way if we can read or not read it.

jen replied: I believe in God and I feel sorry for those who don't have him in their life or never had the opportunity to learn about him and his forgiving grace it isn't meant to be ugly or make us out to be ugly awful people. I don't believe there needs to be a warning label for you to read something like that unless you are uncomfortable with your beliefs in the first place. It wasn't offensive at all in any way I can look at, it is something you may need to realize with in yourself if you are so Defensive over a simple email. Those of you that are christian should help her believe in God instead of accepting that she doesn't, I am not trying to judge anyone i know religion is a controversial issue and it makes many of us feel uncomfortable but it shouldn't. Sorry but that is my opinion and I wouldn't feel right not expressing it. Opinions were expressed here, this is just mine. I just encourage someone who doesn't believe in God to research the facts and Grace he DOES have before turning against him completely, there will come a time in your life where you will need him.

jcc64 replied: OK, I may regret jumping into this, but I have to respond to some of Jen's comments. First of all, it is impossible to "research the facts about God." God is a spirit, and by it's very definition, faith is unprovable. Faith is a gift, but it is not a fact. God may be very real to you, and I'm glad that he gives you strength and comfort. But just as you would not appreciate an attempt by myself or Schnoogly or anyone else to convince you that God does not exist, we do not need to be "saved" or pitied or talked into your belief system. My whole objection to organized religion is the presumption that there can only be one true path to enlightenment. It is why we had 9/11, the Crusades, the Inquisition, World War 2, the Palestinian conflict, and so on and so on. One group, more often than not the dominant group, feels the need to eradicate the "nonbelievers". Obviously, not all pious people are determined to inflict harm on people of other faiths, and there are lovely acts commited in the name of God every minute. But morality is not wholly dependent on religion. It is possible to be a good, moral person and not practice religion in the conventional sense.

Schnoogly replied: Thank you Jeanne. This is exactly the kind of thing I was trying to avoid here. Wow, I'm being pitied. Seriously, I have other more useful things to be pitied about (like lack of sleep LOL)...but this kind of condescending attitude is why I don't have many Christian friends. I do have some, very liberal, Christian friends, and we debate these kinds of theological questions all the time, like how could a good god sacrifice his only son so painfully? Wasn't there another way? Why do Christianity (and other monotheisms) and imperialism go so well together?. I just can't see how they can subscribe to a tradition that holds such guilt-ridden exclusionary tenets (and is wholly unfeminist). Many of them have altered their interpretations of scripture, changed their rituals, ordained women, but still...I can't live in the master's house even if it has been redecorated.

And I'm sorry, but there is no such thing as "the facts" not just for the reason Jeanne described, but because people have interpreted Christianity in so many different ways. What are "facts" for you aren't for other people. I am in fact getting a PhD in the history of Christianity so this is actually what I study--the different "christianities" that have existed since the beginning. I was raised a Christian (RLDS), but at some point in my teens began to be a skeptic. My life since then has only reinforced this skepticism. Perhaps I think too much. Well, that can't really be avoided, it's who I am.

And I agree with Jeanne because it is about faith. You can't force that on anyone. And I think I am a highly moral person. I don't have the fear of god but respect for others to guide my actions. But you may wonder why I'm getting my degree. It's because Christians fascinate me (well, the dead ones mostly. I don't study contemporary religion). Why do people believe and go to such extremes? How does religion work in society? These questions are very interesting to me, so much so that I'm making it my life's work.

And why exactly do you feel sorry for me? What am I missing? When my son had his surgeries many people would have prayed. I trusted the surgeon because I believe in the worth, value, and skill of human beings, not a capricious outside power. As far as I can tell bad stuff happens no matter how much praying people do. Doesn't that feel disappointing after a while?

I was not defensive but just felt marginalized by this original post. I was not uncomfortable--I read stuff like this all the time (but written in the seventeenth century LOL) but I was actually angry. I thought this was the one place I might not have to be preached to. I am very confident in my beliefs but if you lived in a society that was shoving god down your throat at every opportunity you would feel the same way.

So convert away, but be prepared for a debate about it. I can talk theology until I'm blue.

jen replied: I am truly sorry, I read my post and did not mean for it to sound the way it was read. I didn't mean or intend to throw my beliefs at anyone, I don't know why I came off as defensive! I am sorry, really.

Schnoogly replied: It's OK. You just pushed all my buttons with that post.

kit_kats_mom replied: I was raised methodist but we never went to church much or read the bible. We were just "good folks". My DH however was raised in a strict church and unfortunatlly it has turned him off of religion. He was convinced he was going to he** as a child (which must have been awful) because when he closed his eyes, he saw the back of his eyeballs...not Jesus or anything else. He was never taken over by the spirit and he never spoke tounges like everyone else in his church and Jesus never spoke to him. I'm guessing it must have just scared the crud out of him and probably messed with his mind a bit. I would like to take K to the methodist church when she gets a little older. I figure I can expose her to it (I always enjoyed sunday school when we went) but I will let her make the decision if she sticks with it. I always lose when religion comes up as a jeopardy topic. I wish I knew a little bit more. At least the Methodist god isn't mean. He seems like a nice fella. LOL

A&A'smommy replied: I believe in God also but as a christian im not where i should be which is sad to me and sometimes makes me quite miserable...but like kit_kats_mom i was MADE to go to church and in the end my youth group fell apart and broke my heart and also made me hate that youth group. I believe that God is wonderful being and Jesus had a choice he also sacraficed himself because he loved us so much...I dont believe there are "facts" about God but i do believe there are real things that you can see everyday if you allow yourself. God would NEVER force himself on anyone its a choice you have to make, you either believe or you dont and you cant make anyone believe its something they have to feel themselves. But that is just me its what i have been taught and what i have seen...i hope i dont offend anyone i just wanted to share my opinion. I dont like to argue with ya'll either i love you guys WAY too much!!!