The Pledge of Allegiance - What do you think?

mckayleesmom wrote: What do you think about taking the Pledge of Allegiance taken out of the schools? I just want your opinion, this isn't started to cause anybody to fight. Just state your opinion if you want to and don't question others please. I say that cause people expressed to much of their opinion on a military board I go to. But I think we are a little more grown up then them anyways. I personally feel it should stay and I feel this little poem I found makes a great point.

http://www.september-11th.us/Just-Wondering.html

DansMom replied:
As I understand the debate, the argument is not that the pledge should be taken out of schools, but that the words "under God", which were added to the pledge in the 1950's to make it more religious, should be taken back out of the pledge, so that atheists and agnostics and others can also express their patriotism without being "forced" to say something religious.

Anyway, I think all citizens should be encouraged to honor this democracy we are lucky to live, and the pledge is one way to teach that honor; but I don't think they should have slipped religion into the pledge and then forced people to either participate or else be accused of being unpatriotic. It was pretty good the way it was originally written and more inclusive of all participants in this democracy, not just the Judeo-Christian majority.

Then again, this isn't a big issue for me---if God stays in, I'm not too perturbed, and I don't mind my child reciting the pledge. We should all make sure we are the principal influence on our children and teach them our own values anyway, and discuss with them anything out in the mainstream that doesn't fit the values or beliefs of the individual family.

mckayleesmom replied: I know what they are trying to do with the "under god " thing....sorry,,just worded it wrong...forgot to put that.

Maddie&EthansMom replied: From what I understand, they took it out a long time ago. We stopped saying the pledge when I was in Elementary. Personally, I think it should stay in schools. But, DD and baby bean will go to a private school where they will be able to say the pledge and have prayer...everyday.

5littleladies replied: I believe they started saying it again after 9/11 and people are getting upset about it (again). My daughter is homeschooled and we say the pledge and pray everyday so I would not have a problem with her saying it if she went to public school. So I guess I personally would hope they keep saying it.

mckayleesmom replied: I remember saying it in California till I was out of junior high school.

jcc64 replied: I agree 100% with Dan's mom. Well said!

ediep replied: I said it all through elementry and high school. I teach in a middle school and we do it everyday as well as sing God Bless America. My school is in a Hindu and Muslim area and some of the students, I have noticed, don't recite the pledge. I don't force them, but they must stand and be quiet during the pledge. I believe that the pledge and "under God" should be said everyday in schools

A&A'smommy replied: I believe that it should be said in schools, maybe it would make children think a little harder, and show a little more patrism. I went to a private christian school and i remember that everytime i heard it i thought about what i meant. Also things like that might help some children figure out what they believe. My children will be raised in church and will be made to go (to a certain point) that is they was i was raised and my husband too and it has made us better people and has taught us both a lot! I hope that they do put it back in ALL schools they dont have to be made to say it i just think that the few students who would like to should have the choice and the choice to pray. I hope what i said made sense and doesnt affend anyone!

MomofTay&Sam replied: In New York we say it every morning, even before 9/11. I will insist that this stays and never changes. My school does it every morning before class starts. Everyday through out the yr a class is selected (5-6students) and they start it with the principal over the intercom. The whole school takes part before the year is over.

supermom replied: Yes, here, too, they say the Pledge every morning, and also at special events, like school band concerts. It still, to this day, amazes me the number of people who don't even bother to stand at attention when the American Flag walks past.

One thing about people of other backgrounds not saying it - my DH doesn't say it because he is not an American citizen, and he won't ever be - he won't give up his Swedish citizenship, and the reason he moved here was because of me and that I couldn't move there (XH wouldn't let me move kids out-of-country, and we owned business to boot). But he does respect our right and duty to say the pledge and stands quietly at "attention" while it is being said or the National Anthem sung. I expect that of him, and I expect Anders to learn to pay respect to our flag when he sees it in a parade or football game or something.

Anyways, I don't think it makes that much difference to me one way or another if they leave the "under God" in the pledge or not - after all, we were founded on a nation of immigrants who came here to flee religious persecusion (at least SOME of them were here for that, others just to escape serving jail time - teehee)....and I think by leaving it out, it would be more all-inclusive of the true "melting pot" of a nation that we really are. And don't get me wrong, I am just as patriotic as the next person, if not more so. I have had a father, grandfather and XH all serve at one time or another, all during wars......so, I do understand the sacrifice, and I do agree with what we stand for "united we stand" - but if we left the "God" out, we would be more truly expressing the face of the nation as a whole.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: I personally think that anyone who is NOT an American Citizen should not have to say the pledge. But, they SHOULD respect the fact that they ARE in America, and that they SHOULD respect the fact that AMERICANS say the pledge.

If Americans were in THEIR country, they would be expected to shut up during their *jamma lamma shamma* song, now wouldn't they?

That's the thing with Canada - there are different types of schools. You can't even get IN a Catholic school if you haven't been baptized. Public schools are FULL of immigrants - no lie, whites are the minority. I'm not racist...BUT...stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. There are Private schools, all girls schools, all boys schools, there are schools from FRANCE, where every morning, they SING THE ANTHEM FROM FRANCE.

I say if people want to make a holy big stink from 2 darn words... then maybe there should be a division among schools - Catholics should stay in catholic schools, where they can have their *2 words*, and non-catholics should stay in non-catholic schools, where they can take OUT the *under God*.

Maybe there should be schools for different ethnicities as well? I mean - it's not like the country is stopping immigrants from coming in - next everyone who's new to the country will DEMAND they have a school in their language, DEMAND that there be some crap aboutu their religion in the Pledge, even if they can't stand the religion that's ALREADY THERE.

Next thing you know they will take the jobs of the people who've been here all their lives, worked hard for their education, and are on the streets because some Joe Schmo took their job, just because Joe Schmo was an immigrant, who also happened to be a minority, and the employers don't want to be sued for racial discrimination, even though the person is CLEARLY not suited to the job. For example, the receptionist where I work has MAJOR TROUBLE speaking English - has an accent so thick you can't understand her French, and has NO grammar skills whatsoever. Oh wait - isn't that what they're already doing?

I'm sorry - I have this unbelievable anger about people who trump all over my space. Such as the middle age to old (50s maybe?)woman who PUSHED me out of her way to sit down where I was OBVIOUSLY just ABOUT to sit. In the designated section, no less, for 1) pregnant women 2) parents with small children 3) blind people 4) people with a walking disability.

Some people make me want to slap them.

amynicole21 replied:

I agree with Supermom. We were not forced to say it in school, but when it was said, the "under God" part was left in. I believe the Pledge is for expressing patriotism to our country, not to any religion in particular. I am all for expressing my love for my country, I just don't think anyone should be forced to feel the same way I do about things. I think it would be a lot easier if the "Under God" part was taken out of the main Pledge, but children would still be able to state that part on thier own if they wish. Just like prayer in school - as long as it isn't led by the school, and is the students expressing themselves, I am all for it!

MommyToAshley replied:
I was just going to say the same thing. I think it should be recited but no one should be forced to say it. IMHO, I think it is sad what is happening with The Pledge, The Ten Commandments, and any other reference to God being removed from public buildings. What's next, change the constitution? There is already talk about changing our currency!

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a prayer time either. Each person can say a prayer appropriate to their own religion, and if the child is raised atheist, he/she can take the time to think about something positive for the day. I don't think religion should be forced upon anyone, but I don't think it should be denied because the word God offends a few people.

5littleladies replied:
My thoughts exactly!!!

jcc64 replied: Religion, and faith, in their purest forms, are true gifts to man. Unfortunately, people often lose sight of the basic tenets of their faiths and instead use religion as a form of exclusion or as a barometer of a person's worthiness. Every major war or catastrophy instigated by man was in some way linked to a nation's belief in its own moral supremacy. The separation of church and state was an ingenious attempt by our founding fathers to avoid the very persecution they themselves had fled and insure a safe harbor for those who want to worship, or NOT, as they please. The present political climate is slowly eroding those intentions. The pledge of allegiance did not originally contain a reference to God, and were that part to be removed, the focus could shift back where it belongs, on the recitation of what we as a nation, not a congregation, believe.

CantWait replied: In Robbie's school they don't sing the national anthem because they've gotten to many complaints from immagrants that it doesn't represent their homeland. How frigged up is that??????

That totally p's me off cause we live on a military base with a school run by the edmonton school system, if anything we should be singing our anthem more then anyone out of respect for our soliders.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
That's exactly what I mean. Usually...immigrants come to America (Canada and USA) to escape whatever warfare is going on in their own country, to have a better chance a life, to get a better education, to escape their homeland. So why is it that there is so much hate and disrespect on their part when they come here? They want to get away from their homeland...but want US to acknowledge it. Hello?!?!

I can understand that refugees miss their homeland....but they came to America knowing it WASN'T their homeland...so accept it already. This is AMERICA. Canada has the CANADIAN anthem... USA has their anthem.

It was their choice to come here...deal with it.

PS: I lived on a military base all of my childhood... we ALWAYS sang the anthem. (Lahr, Petawawa and Borden. Same with DH - he was all over the place.)