The Duggars

lovemy2 wrote: Were just on the Today show and I tell ya - not one of the NINETEEN kids misbehaved If it was me and my TWO kids - Dylan would be eating the microphone and Olivia well she would be running the show

A&A'smommy replied: I have one child and she would be climbing on something and whining that she was bored!!! I would like to know her secret!!

lisar replied:
Me tooooo!!!!!!

MoonMama replied:
Same here.

My2Beauties replied: They'd turn the cameras off over how bad my kid would wreak havoc! The little one would just sit there, but I don't give her too much longer, she'll be just like her big sister.

Calimama replied: Impressive!!

Kentuckychick replied:

I personally think it's kinda of sad. Yes they are EXTREMELY well behaved...
But i've watched all of their shows and haven't once really seen any of those children having real genuine fun...

I personally think it's because they are forced to grow up too quickly. They are given a load of responsibilities and chores at a very early age and are forced to become independent very quickly. They don't complain and they say they love that lifestyle because they know no different. I really think it's a sad life when you're raising your brothers and sisters.

The mother has said before that the older kids are responsible for their younger siblings and that as she weans each baby that baby is assigned to an older sibling and that sibling is essentially then that toddlers caretaker until they are old enough to then take on a newly weaned baby... think of how quickly that responsibility would make you grow up.

They may be well behaved, but I can tell you that while I may have been a rambunctious fun-loving tot in my early years, by age 5-6 I knew how to behave in public and I was just as polite by the time I was 8 or 9 as their children and it didn't come at the expense of not having a childhood.

If that's her secret then it's one I don't want to share...

kimberley replied: kentucky chick... u got me thinking. is it so wrong to teach kids to be responsible and polite? years ago, yes, there were more expectations put on children to be respectful, hard-working and responsible... and maybe they didn't have as much "fun", but they were good, honest people for the most part. i have 4 and the older ones do help with the younger ones but they have their play time and they enjoy helping their siblings. it makes me wonder if we have gone too far off the other end... a lot of kids today completely lack respect, appreciation or have a clue what work means. just something that makes me go... hmmmmmmmmmm.

gr33n3y3z replied:
exactly well said

5littleladies replied:
Well said. I agree wholeheartedly.

Calimama replied:
Just because you didn't see it during an hour segment doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

stella6979 replied:
I couldn't agree more.

Anthony275 replied:
bingo
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-l3mq6Cceds

PrairieMom replied: aahhhh the joys of editing.

Kentuckychick replied:
not at all... and I even stated in my post that at the age of many of the duggar children I knew well how to behave and how to be respectful and polite. I do think there's a lack of that this day in age, but I also think there's a good middle ground.

Kentuckychick replied:
Yes, they look happy. But that looks like my family reunions... doesn't really show them being children...

And again. To have your children "helping" out with the younger children is one thing. She has said that they are "GIVEN" a younger child to be "IN CHARGE" of... that means that essentially she hands down the bulk of the responsibility once the babies are weaned. That is NOT good parenting.

Calimama replied:
LOL that was cute.

Anthony275 replied: they've even stated in their show that they have their own interests, their own freedom, but love their family enough to spend their time with them.

kimberley replied: this is just my opinion, but i really think we shouldn't pass judgement until we live a day in their shoes. they seem happy to me from the shows i've seen. my grandmother came from a family of 10. grandfather a family of 13. they don't have regrets in their childhood. they don't feel "robbed" and DO feel children today lack the structure and discipline that they were given. giving a child every video game or toy and letting them run wild isn't great parenting either.
calling someone a bad parent when you have never experienced parenthood is a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

i am sorry, i am not trying to offend. just offering my opinion and a different light to view this in.

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
ITA....

I think the world has it all backwards and that's why there are so many mothers going off the deep end, b/c they do everything themselves. They are afraid of telling their kids to help out, etc.

I happen to think the Duggars are fabulous parents. They do a better job with 16 than some people do with ONE!! None of their children will be a burden to society...I'm willing to bet on that one. And who CARES if they are given chores at a young age? It's not hurting them!! Since when are children NOT supposed to contribute to their family? So what, do we have children now so we can sit around and look at their cute little faces? Are they trophies? No. We have children to carry on the work ethic...to keep the world turning, not to be burdens to society and when do you start teaching them this if not from an early age??? My FIL worked in the cotton fields from the time he could walk and he had more respect for his parents and himself than the children of these days who are essentially given no responsibilites for anything and are lazy, to be quite honest. Work is not toxic...it's very healthy. We are made to do things our entire life. I think the Duggars encourage their children in a loving manner to do these things. They aren't cracking a whip over their bare bottoms or making them stand on bottles for hours if it isn't done properly. But I also think these children want to please their parents. I see nothing wrong with the way they do things. They have managed to make it work and I'm envious if anything. I'd love to pick her brain.

Brias3 replied: Though its definitely NMS parenting, kudos to them if they can tackle raising that big a family with such grace. Hopefully the kids won't grow to feel they were missing something as adults, but either way I think its impressive to be able to instill those types of morals and behaviors into one child, let alone nineteen, in this society.

Cece00 replied:
Says who?

There is no ONE way to be a parent. Families come in all shapes, sizes, and function in different ways.

I would bet she spends more time with her children than you think. She homeschools & teaches those kids to play instruments and spends time with them and puts her in fair share of keeping up with what must be a VERY hectic household, and she's constantly got a new baby strapped to her.

& as far as the kids having to help- Her kids have learned responsibility and how to function well in a group setting, and how to help out other people. I make my kids do chores, I make them help each other. I dont think I'm a bad parent, and my kids are very responsible boys. The Duggars are all well behaved and polite, which is a lot more than you can say about a lot of people's children.

I think those kids DO seem happy. Your version of what "childhood" should be like isnt the same as everyone else's. They have parents who love them, many siblings/playmates/friends, and they enjoy being religious. I can think of FAR worse scenarios for childhood than to be born into that type of situation.

Sam & Abby's Mom replied: Not quite the same as 19,,,,,,,,but I am number 6 out of 9 children and wouldnt change it for the world.

jcc64 replied: The Duggars are an endless source of curiousity, aren't they? I agree with Aimee that kids contributions should be an integral part of the functioning of a family. My kids have more jobs than most of their peers- and I STILL think they get off too easy. They do their own laundry, cook for themselves (not dinner), vacuum, cut the grass, wash windows, dig ditches, etc... I know so many moms who act like maids and short order cooks for their kids. I don't see why a 14 yo kid can't fix their own breakfast???!!!!
Having said that, I am keenly aware that my kids only have a short time to be.... a kid. If there is something going on socially for one of my boys- a party, a game, whatever, I would not ask them to stay home and babysit my daughter. I believe that sometimes, their need to establish autonomy and engage in their own lives beyond the front door trumps my need for the extra help. I personally think that the older Duggar children are missing that piece. They don't seem to be able to engage with the outside world on their own. Are they well behaved, intelligent, responsible kids- it certainly seems like it. But they do seem to be missing their own unique identities - maybe they don't even realize they're missing anything- but idk, it seems kind of claustrophobic to me.

Kentuckychick replied:
I whole heartedly agree... and looking back that was not the best thing to say.

However I will stick by my assertion that having each of your older children be solely responsible for one of their younger children (she said they have to know where that child is at all times, help them with their chores, baths, toileting, etc...) is not best parenting. My uncles brother and wife have 7 kids (the older kids have already sworn they only want 1 or 2) and have many of the same philosophies as the Duggars. They also know a family with 10 kids. That family recently lost their 3 year old daughter because like the Duggars their younger kids are left under the charge of their older children. She walked outside when the sister had gone to the bathroom (the mom and other siblings were all in the house) and the father didn't see her when he backed up the car. They all thought she was with the "responsible" 10 year old sister. That child who now blames herself for her sister's death should NEVER have to live with that responsibility.

There's a middle ground and as a preschool teacher I've seen individuals on either end as well as in the middle and neither end is best.

Boo&BugsMom replied: I am not sure I believe that the older children are SOLELY responsible 24/7 for the younger children. Seriously...if that was completely true then I don't think their household would run as well as it does. I can understand being paired up in partners which kind of sounds like it may be...even schools do that, and as a preschool teacher myself would pair up an older one to help the younger one. I don't see an issue with helping with bathing, toileting, and chores. I highly doubt those older children are responsible for every move the younger ones make. I wouldn't compare it to meer babysitting at most.

Aimee pretty much summed up what I feel as well. What we see on tv is nothing compared to what goes on 24/7 in their home. We see how much of it on tv? Versus how many more hours of real life there really are? And real life is not edited either. I think when people speculate about how they "think" they run their home, is how invalid opinions (meaning opinions not based on true facts) are formed, IMO.

I would LOVE to meet them, I think they are intruiging. I bet if I had the chance to spend just one week with Michelle Duggar I could gain a LOT of useful parenting tips, considering how much more experience she has than any of us!

Anthony275 replied: http://youtube.com/watch?v=pELSr2tMqHo
jennifer danielle at the doctor

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
OMG.

You watch kids for a living, right? Have you never asked one of the older kids to get you something you needed to tend to the younger ones?

I have 6 kids in my home. 3 are mine, 3 are 1 year old. When I say it's diaper changing time, each of MY children have their own things to do if they're around. Even my TWO YEAR OLD will help - she gets me the container of wipes. My other kids get me the actual diapers, and the diaper cream.

That is my childrens' chore. To get me the things I need when I'm tending to the little ones.

You will not see my kids, at 8 years old, talking back to me and doing whatever the heck they want just because I let them be chlidren. There is a time and a place for being a child... and ust playing... but there's a time and a place for responsibility, and I strongly pity the parents who let their child do what they want to do at their own pace... because they will likely not adapt very well to the real world of Dog Eat Dog. Not everyone's going to wait for the child to be ready...it's unfair to the kids to let them go at their own pace. They need to keep up with the rest of society.


(just to clarify - i'm not talking about stuff like potty training, sleeping, talking etc... I"m talking about the parents who say that their kids will learn to always repeat thank you and you're welcome, the kids who eat like sloppy pigs even at 6, because they can, the 7 year olds who pitch a fit in a store because they can't have a candy, the kids who don't do the work in class because they know their parents will tell the teacher off if their child got pushed too hard, god forbid.... etc...)

Kentuckychick replied:
Please read my clarification in the later post.

I really may be misunderstanding. I'll admit I never have spent the day with them, but all it took for me was watching the shows and hearing her attitude to turn me off of that parenting style. It was her QUOTE -- straight from her mouth that said that she does the bulk of the responsibility with the babies until they're weaned and then she hands that off to another child. Then they do bathing, potty, help the children with their schoolwork and keep track of them. She even refered to the older girls as little mommies.

Yes, I've taken care of children for many years and yes I do ask for help. However, when it comes to bathtime, potty time, diaper time, those are MY responsibilities. I would never in a million years forgive myself if something happened because I placed the responsibility on a sibling, never. The little girl I nanny for fell backwards in the tub last year and couldn't get up. She's 6 (5 at the time). Her 8 year old brother was there (not my choice, that is what they do in their family). Had I not been right there I'm quite certain she would have drowned. He, a relatively level headed young man had NO idea what to do, he panicked.

Simply put, I totally understand sharing some of the responsibilities amongst the family. But I saw with my own eyes, the older children (and I'm not talking about just the 15/16 year olds) giving baths and taking potty training kids to the potty. I'm just not for that.

As for respect, I believe I've made myself pretty clear that I TOTALLY agree that there is a time and a place for responsibility and respect should be expected always... but I also believe that children should have fun (and not just laughing fun... they should PLAY!). All I said is that in all of the hour - two hour shows (and there have been quite a few now) I've seen of this family all I've seen these children doing is chores and school work. It seems to be the bulk of their day. Heck I know when I'm doing my job taking children to the bathroom, changing diapers, making sure they wash their hands, fixing lunches and helping them with their school work takes up a good portion of the day... I don't know where'd they find the time to play with just a few of the responsibilities they have, not to mention their chores.

But I want to make myself VERY clear that I am NOT saying that children should have NO responsibility... I just think that they should FUN to!!!

Kentuckychick replied: Here;
This is from the personal site of the Duggar family. It is their "daily schedule"

http://www.duggarfamily.com/faq.html

First. I don't see where the mother does more than care for the infant and some of the teaching (it looks like she passes even that off to the older children). And she "helps" to do some of the cleaning.

The only free time the children get during their day is right before bedtime and that is ONLY if they have finished their music lessons. Even children in school get recess.

I'm sorry if I sound overly judgemental but honestly;
WHERE'S THE FUN!?!

skinkybaby replied: I really don't think that is their minute to minute schedule. At least, i don't read it that way. That looks more like when their activities are.

mom2patrick&jalin replied:

I agree this does not seem like a strict minute to minute scheudule. I also read on this page where she said they inturupt normal days for fun days with daddy. The picture shows the children on thier Bicycles. I do not think we can know, just from the media what the truth is!

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Yep. Even managing a childcare center we had schedules but it didn't mean we 100% followed it every day. It was used as more of an example of "approximate" times. I am pretty sure that schedule is not followed 100% and certainly not every single day. I don't know a single homeschool family (and I know a lot) that schools Sunday through Saturday...AND if anyone watches their television show you'd see that Michelle Duggar is the sole teacher when they do their schooling. I also don't think it's a bad thing to expect them to finish music lessons either. It's no different than a student being required to take choir or music in public school...which is a requirement here.

Kentuckychick replied:
Actually I've watched the show and I just read an article from their same site in which she says;

Michelle Duggar notes, "The older child gets to become a teacher. And it seems like you learn so much more when you're the teacher than when you're just the student."

Now I will say that I don't have a problem with that at all but I think it shows pretty clearly that she doesn't do 100% of the teaching. In fact I think it would be pretty impossible for her to do 100% of the teaching for that many children.

My main problem with the family as I've pretty much stated all along and as she states in one of the other articles is that each of the other children are "assigned a buddy or two that they are responsible for from morning until night." That is a lot of responsibility. When you add that the child also has to help them with their studies AND do their chores + help their buddy with his/her chores AND their own studies... it just seems an awful lot of responsibility for ANY child. That is all I'm saying.

Yes I'm sure they have certain days that they shy from the schedule but in other interviews she's said they have a "pretty rigid schedule for studies throughout the week." So which is it?

And I don't have a problem with the children finishing their music lessons... what I have a problem with is the small amount of free time they have in their day.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I don't think any teacher does 100% of the teaching. Even Tanner's Kindergarten teacher has 6th grade helpers in her classroom during certain periods of the day.

But she is the SOLE teacher...I highly doubt those older children would even know WHAT to teach the younger ones without her direction. I don't think we should assume anything that extreme. In the show you also see the older girls helping with making dinner and meals...the younger ones are not around...so how could they be solely responsible for those younger ones if that is the case?

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I look at it more for safety measures than looking at it like responsibility. JMO.

mummy2girls replied:
I agree... my dad was the second oldest of 10 kids. When he was 9 he had to quit school and he then helped his parents with the farm and taking care of his younger kids. He loved every aspect of it. He is an awesome guy and has respect for everyone and he doesnt take anything for granted.And you see the kids nowadays( not all but some) are so spolied and expect everything to be handed to them on a silver plater! they disrespect the elders. So i agree we can not pass judgement until we actually lived in thier shoes.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: In any case... I'd wayyyy prefer my children to be as well behaved, polite, well educated, respectful of others as the Duggar children are, rather than being the self-obsessed trampish looking 8 year olds with cell phones and thongs with no respect that seem to be the main type of child to roam the streets these days.

Kentuckychick replied: This could go back and forth forever. I think we all need to agree to disagree. I don't agree with her parenting style. Simple as that.

I don't argue with the fact that her children seem very well behaved.
I'm not arguing that the children shouldn't help with their younger siblings during the day.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be study buddies.
I just think that they have a heck of a lot of responsibility. And the fact that they get to shirk their childcare responsibility for a few minutes while they cook the family meals (btw the children can be alone at times -- that doesn't mean they aren't still responsible, just like when I'm doing my nanny job) doesn't do anything for me in regards to the fact that the children have too many responsibilities.

I've spent 60-70 hours/week (8 am-7/8 pm 5-6 days/week) with three children for the past several years and YES they have responsibilities and YES they help out and YES they are taught respect and YES they are well behaved most of the time. However, they have more time during the day to be children -- to play outside, to enjoy life, to have fun and to be their own unique individuals than to have to perform the responsibilities that I as the adult in the household should be performing. They grow up too quickly as it is... they need to enjoy their childhoods.

Just because I don't agree with the parenting style doesn't mean I don't believe children should have structure and discipline either.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Rachel, I apologize if it seemed I or anyone else was ganging up on you. I respect your opinion, which you are very entitled to have. I am sure there are others out there who agree with you as well.

coasterqueen replied: Rachel,

I tend to agree with you. I see all points on this. I do think it's horrible that a child has to HELP parent their siblings. I think to have nineteen children those kids are helping out more than normal. What I mean by normal is how we ask our older kids to help out with this or that - I think these kids are asked to help out more than they should. I say this only because of the impression they have given me from t.v. I do not know this family in person so I can only go by what they say on t.v. So I don't want to really pass judgement, but I guess I am in a way.

My father grew up in a family of 13 kids - 2 were stillborn - so 11 of them survived birth. My grandmother died when the youngest was 5 years old. My dad was the third oldest at 18. My grandfather unexpectedly got hurt on the job several years later. As soon as my grandmother died, the boys were expected to help out by making some form of living. The girls were all expected to be the "mothers" in the home. It was very sad. Very very sad. While none of them would say they regret anything that happened - they will tell you this - they had NO childhood. Some of the older ones did to an extent but even before my grandmother died they all had to help out. They could go to a function, but had to take one or two of the siblings along with them, etc.

IMO my dad, aunts and uncles had their childhoods stolen from them because my grandparents chose to have a huge family. See now, I can pass judgment on my own and will do some gladly because I have seen first hand what the big family has done to them. None of my aunts and uncles have had huge families themselves and they'll tell you it's because we can't parent our children, be there for them, etc like we should be able to if we have that many children.

I don't know about the rest of society, but I do well to be there every second for two children. I make Kylie do things to help out and help with her sister, but I'd never ask what I appear to see in magazines and on tv about the Duggar family.

So Rachel I totally see your point. We have all been asked by our parents or have asked our children to help out with siblings -but I don't think there are too many people here that can say they have been asked to help out the way these kids are and can say they didn't have their childhood stolen from them a bit. I'm sure I'm wrong but first hand in my family there isn't one in mine that would say they got their childhood. Heck my father has had to be a parent to all his siblings since my grandfather died - since he died when some were still in highschool. I have problems with having so many children and being there when they are older (age issues) but that's a whole other topic.

Kentuckychick replied:
no problem... and I really probably needn't be so defensive either. We are all entitled to our opinions

Anthony275 replied: duggars on tlc 9pm tonight

luvmykids replied: I think there's a lot we don't see, on both sides of the coin. Of course she needs help during the day, including schooling, she has how many under the age of 6 which is typical school age?

I don't agree with everything they say or do, but it's their choice and I think they make it work well....there is the argument that it's the kids who suffer for the parents choices but I honestly don't believe any of them are truly suffering. Maybe they have more responsibility than normal, maybe when they're out on their own they'll be awed by their newfound freedoms...but isn't that most kids too?

Maybe they're the exception to the rule, maybe they love their lives (I'm talking about the kids) and maybe they're a really neat family who experiences some things the rest of us are too busy for these days. I don't know that though, and it doesn't really matter what I or anyone else thinks, so I'll wrap it up with what I've said before....my hat is off to any woman who bears that many children, they're self sufficient, and the kids do seem happy and well adjusted even if they are more responsible and grown up than others their age.

She also says they're learning to be more flexible, I think at the heart of it they are like most parents who are winging it and learning as they go...just on a much bigger scale I also applaud them for wanting to teach their kids to be selfless and think of others first, which in this day and age is pretty rare.