Stemming from Karen's Post - about Kylie
moped wrote: So, I have a question..........I don't know much about what a "spirited child" is but my sister has one and she says it is horrible..........she is now 11 and very very very hard to reason with.
How did you know you had a spirited child?
What were the symptoms or behavior traits?
I am just very curious.........all I found on the internet was that they are active???
At what age did this all start to show?
mckayleesmom replied: OMG....I think Mckaylee is a spirited child plus some.....I went to the library a couple weeks back to find books on it, but I couldn't find any. I remember someone mentioning books before about it, but can't remember the names....Maybe it was Kit Kat'smom.
Maddie&EthansMom replied: I knew Maddie was spirited from the moment she was born. She was defiant and hot headed even as an infant. She didn't want to breastfeed and the harder I tried, the more she pulled away and turned red in the face. She can be down right I-M-P-O-S-S-I-B-L-E to deal with. Scotty has better luck than I do when it comes to dealing with her. I just don't have a lot of patience.  When she was a little older it was bedtime battles. Trying to get her to bed at a certain time and making her stay there.  Nothing worked. She eventually outgrew it.
I can't really explain it. She is bright, intelligent, cuddly, loving, sensitive, but STRONG WILLED to the core. It is HER way or the highway and you aren't going to make her do anything she doesn't want to do and she will go down fighting you the entire way. She just never gives up. The more demanding and firm you are with her, the more she resists. She takes after my mother. (seriously) Normally what works for us now that she is older is just being in a relaxing atmosphere with not a lot going on. She loves one on one time and she is a big time snuggler...she loves to be held close to you. She will act out more if she knows she doesnt' have your undivided attention, but she does surprisingly well with her brother. She loves to laugh and is very light hearted. She doesn't like when things are real serious, but she isn't passive. Now, Scotty would argue that Ethan is the one who is strong willed, but he has more of a passive behaviour. While he does scream more than she does He isn't strong willed. He just wants what he wants when he wants it.  Not the same at all. I guess he is more like me...he's not very patient. 
Each 'spirited' child is different so some others may have more examples of behavior.
mysweetpeasWil&Wes replied: As a matter of fact, I recently checked out "Raising your spirited child" audio tapes from the library and listening to them in the car. So far, I think it's really interesting. I don't want to go into detail, because the definition is pretty extensive, but I recommend reading (or listening) to the book if you get a chance!
Maddie&EthansMom replied:
Yes, I agree. And I have that book, too. I was pretty uncertain until I read that book.
TANNER'S MOM replied: I wonder what position birth order plays? I can remember Brittany being BRATTANY.. and thinking I wasn't going to make it..
Of all the kids she is still the most selfish.. and impossible one.. it's all about her.. and her only.
She is smart, popular, pretty but still Brattany..lol
I have a frieds who oldest is 18.. is that way also.. and also the oldest..
Humm
coasterqueen replied: Here's a list from Mary Sheedy Kurcinka's book "Raising Your Spirited Child":
The "Spirited Child" main characteristics are :
INTENSITY (loud and dramatic-focused outward, quiet and intently observant - focused inward),
PERSISTENCE ("lock in" to important ideas, love to debate, goal oriented),
SENSITIVITY (easily overstimulated by their environment, low sensory thresholds to any of the five senses),
PERCEPTIVENESS (easily distracted, notice everything going on all the time),
ADAPTIBILITY (don't transition/shift from one activity to another easily), with
REGULARITY natural schedules for eating or sleeping),
ENERGY (physically active, busy exploring all the time),
FIRST REACTION (quick withdrawl when first encountering anything new), and
MOOD (as in moody) as "bonus" characteristics.
In other words, spirited children are "more" of each characteristic.
Now each spirited child does not have to have ALL the characterisitics. Kylie is VERY intense, persistent but perceptive, needs regularity, energitic, and moody. She has MORE of each characteristic for sure.
Megan is also a spirited child as her occupational therapist has described to us but in a totally different way..so far. So far she has the super sensitivity. We don't notice any other characteristics just yet.
Kylie has always from the time she was a baby needed MORE MORE MORE than most children. People make us aware of this all the time. We are constantly being told how much "different" our child is. Lots of people say we don't parent our child properly and that's the only reason she is the way she is. They don't believe in the whole "spiritedness"/that's just her personality bit. Which is funny because I was/am intense, extremely persistent (no, I'm sure you would have never guessed that one. ), need regularity and like it, have the "first reaction", and extremely moody.
The good thing that has come from this is that my husband is understanding this more and more and now sees why I am the way I am. Before he thought I was just being impossible, but now he sees it's just me.
Kylie and I both also have extremely sensitivity to smells and sounds. But I think Kylie actually has a more hightened sense of these two than I do, which makes me feel very sorry for her. It's not a good thing IMO to have this, I'll tell you that. 
moped replied:
I don't know...............I am the middle of 3 sisters and I was apparently the difficult one..........my oldest sister was the nicest, best and all around great person and still is at 39 years old..................interesting question
coasterqueen replied:
Hmmmm, that is VERY interesting Mel. I'd be curious to know that too. I am the oldest and so is Kylie. Although Megan (so far) has the heightened sensitivity which the OT says could lead to other spirited features. We will soon find out.
I always thought my actions during pregnancy had to do with how the girls are, especially Kylie. I swore all the loud rap/dance music made her the way she is.  As well as riding on the lawnmower.
Maddie&EthansMom replied:
Thanks Karen!
And I have a heightened sense of sound. No, it isn't fun at all. Scotty thinks I'm crazy!
I don't think Ethan is spirited at all after reading that again, but Maddie definetly is "more" of everything as I stated in my post. 
moped replied:
So the therapist can already tell if Megan is spirited???? That is incredible. I am sure the odler generation do not believe in all this but I truly do.....my sister struggled for a long long time and then she went to a seminar on this and they described her daughter to a T.............they went thru all sorts of personality types etc...................it really is quite interesting.
Thanks for the info guys
DO you guys think Jack is "spirited"?????
Not that it is a bad thing, because I think these people will go soooo far in life and busines, but it seems like something I wouldn't handle very well..............
coasterqueen replied: One other thing I have noticed/felt is that it's so darn extremely hard to raise a spirited child and keep them in "check". Gosh, if I only told you all the things I did as a child/teen and why most of it is because my parents couldn't understand me....UGH!  That's why I am constantly trying to figure out how to parent her the best way possible. Some days I remember her spiritedness plays a role in things and other days I just want her to be like every other kid and not deal with parenting her "different" as most would say you have to do with spirited children.
coasterqueen replied: Here's Dr. Sears take on spiritedness:
The "High-Need" characteristics are:
INTENSE (cry more, demand immediate responses, feed/nurse voraciously),
HYPERACTIVE (high energy level-not the disorder),
DRAINING (use up lots of parents' energy, exhausting to parent),
FEEDS FREQUENTLY (especially applicable to babies and nursing),
DEMANDING (of parents and their energy),
AWAKENS FREQUENTLY (needs less sleep, especially during the day),
UNSATISFIED (no matter what you do, it doesn't improve their fussiness),
UNPREDICTABLE (including extreme mood swings),
SUPERSENSITIVE (keenly aware of their environment, quickly overstimulated),
UNABLE TO PUT DOWN (especially when babies),
UNCUDDLY (touch is overstimulating, or hates to be confined, but is cuddly),
NOT A SELF-SOOTHER (bonds to people, not objects),
SEPARATION-SENSITIVE ("velcro baby", doesn't like new people/places).
I like his descriptions MUCH better and all of them are Kylie! Draining is the KEY. She literally drains the life right out of you and makes it hard to parent in a way that you don't lose your temper. kwim?
coasterqueen replied: Jen,
Megan's extreme super sensitivity makes her a "candidate" for spiritedness. Her OT said that could make her spirited, especially since her sister is this. So not sure if they actually 'diagnose' it but she warned me.
I couldn't tell you if Jack is spirited or not. Do you think he is?
moped replied:
I think you and my sister should talk - sometimes she feels she is the only person in the whole world that has a child like this...........
Does it seem it is more prevalent is girls??????
moped replied:
No I really don't think Jack is, but I guess when I orginally read the word "active" a few times it got me thinking, but really no I do not........none of these seem to be in Jack really.
Now my neice - OH YEAH BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maddie&EthansMom replied:
Yes, I kwym. Both sets of descriptions have bits of Maddie in them.
coasterqueen replied: Not sure if it is more prevelant in girls. Interested to find out though.
Here's a link with more interesting descriptions you can pass on to your sister as well Spirited Children - descriptions
What I find common and have researched this enough to now I know what to look for is that a lot of ADD?ADHD kids have been diagnosed wrongly. That some are in fact JUST spirited. Now some spirited kids can truly be ADD/ADHD so it's not to be dismissed but just going to your doctor and telling him the signs and him saying yep, he's ADHD is the wrong course of action. If one is ever told their child is ADHD they should SERIOUSLY look into a speicialist because there are actual brain wave activity tests that can be done to determine ADD/ADHD.
My coworker's DD was diagnosed with ADHD and she told her doc, doc said YEP and gave her a script for drugs. She decided that it was the right course of action and never looked back. I just don't think I could do that. I WILL go further w/it if Kylie is ever diagnosed with it.
MyLuvBugs replied: Oh Jen!  Let me just say that you are so lucky you have not experienced a spirited child. I like Lorelei's picture should be in the dictionary next to the work spirited. lol But to answer your questions. . . .
"How did you know you had a spirited child?" When she started having temper tantrums as 8 months old, and shaking her head NO when she wanted something done her way, and when she started growling (yes! Growling) at me when I told her NO. )
"What were the symptoms or behavior traits? " I think this all depends on your definition of "spirited" to me it's a child that is EXTREMELY independant and energetic. So, in Lorelei's case, she doesn't want help with ANYTHING. ugh. When she walks, God forbid I should hold her hand to help her. Very independant, and she gets that from me (my mothers curse on me I guess.). And her energy. OH BOY. She only takes 1 nap a day for about 2-3 hours, and only sleeps 8-9 hours a night. When she's awake, she's running around poking her little nose into everything, screaming "DADDY" all through the house, and destroying her toys. (ahh what joys there are to come. )
"all I found on the internet was that they are active???" Yep me too. But I think that's the "Medical" definition and "Spirited" is a more common place or personal definition.
At what age did this all start to show? 6-8 months for me. But my huz says she came out ready to kick butt and take names. I prefer not to remember it like that. lol 
MyLuvBugs replied:
That is a VERY interesting analysis Mel. I think you might be on to something with it. Especially if you start looking at family trees and family traits. At least in my family, most of the first borns are EXTREMELY strong willed and independant....Hmmmmmm....
TANNER'S MOM replied: Well, 15 years ago.. your kids where just bad. Or needed a spanking.
I always blamed Brittany's on being the only child for 5 years and being very spoiled..... and when Justin came along she had a hard thing to handle..
But I think I made more excuses than I needed too.. don't we all..
MyLuvBugs replied:
Yep....  The question is.....How to stop blaming or making excuses, and how to start fixing the problem? Too bad life doesn't have an instruction book, huh? lol
mom21kid2dogs replied:
Jen~
Like in all things kid related there are varying degrees of high needs. Olivia fits some categories to a T (intensity, hyper,draining,demanding, poor sleeper) and others (mostly the sensory ones) not so much. She can be draining but not as much as kids who are extreme. For this I am extremely thankful!!  O's best friend meets all of them. I had her this afternoon for 4 hours and all I can say is "Wow"! I love that child like my own but man am I more ready than usual for bedtime!!
mom21kid2dogs replied:
Who me? Strong willed and independent?
Actually, in our family it's pretty evenly split. 3 of the first borns fot the "typical" mode and 3 are the most laid back, easy going kids on the planet.
mysweetpeasWil&Wes replied: I think what I like most so far about listening to the audio tapes of "Raising Your Spirited Child" is the fact that the author has taught me that the word spirited is actually a positive one and by using words to describe your child, like the ones listed above, instead of the more common negative terms like "wild child", "out of control" ,"spoiled" can teach all of us to actually appreciate these unique behaviors and help our children to not feel ashamed or feel like "bad" kids. And like anyone knows, positive reinforcement builds better self esteem. And it may just help parents feel less helpless when we know that people (friends, grandparents, teachers) have learned to stop judging and placing negative labels on both our kids and our parenting skills. If only everyone knew about this "spirited" word years ago!
Now I don't think I have a spirited child, but I can certainly say it has nothing to do with the way I parent. I would like to believe so, but I really do think that a lot of this is inherited personality traits. And let me just tell you, Wil's easy and relaxed temperament comes all from DH! I'm sure the next one will be more like me!
coasterqueen replied: Rae,
I like that they talk about using words as positive too (spirited, etc) but sometimes being a mother of a spirited child....it can be so difficult some days to think of their actions in a positive light.
moped replied: I totally agree Karen, I am always trying to put a happy spin on things for my sister.............
mysweetpeasWil&Wes replied:
I imagine it would be. Hang in there Karen! Kylie sounds like a great kid, but you know that! Do you think it could just be her age? I'm hoping 4 or 5 gets better for you! 
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