Statewide Smoking Ban - Opionions please

TANNER'S MOM wrote: Smoking ban

It seems the State of Arkansas has passed some more smoking bans. While I think it's good for me..cause I don't smoke anymore. I am not sure it's good for democracy.

The laws state that we can't smoke in any public place unless they have less than 3 employee's. Or unless it's a bar or a gaming place. Which to me says unless it's something the government has also heavily taxed.

The law states that no one can smoke in a car with a child younger than 6 years old or 6 lbs.

Which I do think is a nice law in a way..but then I think If I work and buy a car then I have paid taxes on both money..then who is the government to tell me what I can do in my vehicle, home etc.

I am on the fence. love the no smoking..but the rights we loose is what scares me.

PrairieMom replied: No question where I stand on this issue! Woo Hoo! Healthy Lungs Rock!

3_call_me_mama replied: Ditto to prariemom!!! That' where I stand too:) WAHOO healhier lungs and kids!!!

EvesMom replied: New Jersey is doing it too, I think.

jcc64 replied:

Well, if the gov't is footing the bill for the health repurcussions of the hypothetical child in a smoke filled car (whose parents may or may not have health insurance for him), then I believe they have every right to intercede. Ditto with employees in smoke filled work places.
For people who want to destroy their own health, that is their right. Just take it outside, away from me and anyone else who doesn't, especially kids.
And btw, we here in NY haven't had the right to smoke inside of any bar or restaurant for quite awhile. And guess what, we all survived, jobs and businesses in tact.

punkeemunkee'smom replied: I have said this once before about this subject and I will say it again, I am TOTALLY opposed to the government Local, State, or Federal, passing laws governing what I do in my private life. I am not going to debate the merits of NOT smoking because that is not the real issue here. At issue is the ever growing allowance of the legislatures in this country to begin to remove small seemingly inconsiquental freedoms from one group of people or another. IT is a dangerous and slippery slope! I pay for my car and I pay taxes to drive it-I don't agree with how everyone parents but if I so choose to smoke in my car with my child in the vehicle then that is a choice I will have to deal with. I don't want Taylor around drinking but there is nobody making the resturant industry to set up drinking or non-drinking sections. Or whole towns passing non-drinking laws(I know some counties are dry but you can still drink in resturants with a alocohol card-more $$$ for the local government) I am not debating the merits of any one behavior against the other here BUT what I am saying is I am,by the grace of God, an American citizen and by that stroke of luck I have certain INALIENABLE rights to govern my own life sans interference from the government. This board is based on just that principal-we DO NOT all agree with or even like everyone's opinions BUT we learn to respect the choices we all make. I challenge everyone to think of one thing you do differently from someone you know...Now I ask you to think of your small freedom being removed to pacify another group of people. Pretty soon NONE of us would be able to do much of anything at all and THAT is the real danger here.

Bee_Kay replied:
Abbie-
That is an incredible and powerful post!

TANNER'S MOM replied: Abbie you said it alot better than I could! I agree

My2Beauties replied: I wish they would stop selling cigarettes period! I can't even stand to be walking down the street and have someone in front of me puffing on one, their smoke blows back in my face. I have to walk 2 blocks to work every morning from a parking garage so I encounter it all the time. BUT...I have a hard time telling people no - not to smoke around me because it's just not in my nature to say hey I don't like what you're doing stop that. Ask Brianne, my sister in law smoked in my car the day we all went to the mall and about choked us to death. So what I guess I'm saying is that most people who don't smoke will not speak up about it and all that second hand smoke affects my health. But because I don't feel like I should be the one to say something about it, because theya re doing something perfectly legal - I think the law should put limits on it. I respect everyone's opinions on here though as far as for or against any non-smoking ordinance. They have a smoking ban here in Louisville, but it's not that strict. They never have put restrictions on what you can and cannot do in your own car and what not. I think if a child is in your car though - it is very harmful to their health to be in such close proximities with cigarette smoke going everywhere. In Louisville, if 50% of your sales come from alcohol then you can smoke in that establishment. So it's really not strict here at all. Even Bingo Halls here have started selling liquor so that people can smoke in there

BAC'sMom replied: Dang girl this is twice in one day that “we” agree on something.

mckayleesmom replied:
I was there.... . Im like LeaAnn...I don't ever speak my mind and tell someone what to do. I hate that dh smokes, but I finally told him to stop doing it around me.

ilovemybaby replied:
ITA! But then so many are addicted to it. It wouldn't be an easy thing to do... to just ban it altogether and stop selling the cigarettes. Then we'd have lots of people suffering withdrawals and cranky!

I am all for human rights and if someone wants to smoke then that's their choice if they want to kill themselves slowly... but I have rights too and I don't want to go to a Christmas in the park and sit next to people that are smoking with their smoke blowing in my face and my daughters. And I don't want to have to sit in a staffroom and be the only non smoker with smoke all around me while I'm pregnant for 8 months. Which is what I had to do.
I think they should make it illegal to smoke anywhere in public. So they can smoke at home and in their car but not around me. JMO
I don't even like going outside to smell cigarette smoke from our neighbours house from the guy who sits on the window sill and smokes and blows it outside. Then he drops his da*n cigarettes all over our driveway and section.

punkeemunkee'smom replied:

If this is your mentality then we also MUST ban alcohol. It kills thousands every year many who are killed instanly or have their lives shattered by some one else who took a drink crossed 3 lanes of traffic and took their choices away. And then cars because they cause pollution and pollution causes upper respritory problems in kids and elderly and people with asthma and asthma kills people too....the list could keep getting pretty ridiculous. The fact of the matter is it is NOT the right or the place of the government in a democracy to govern the personal *health or other* choices of the people....

luvbug00 replied: Abbie I agree with you on all your posts 100%!!! we are one fired up bunch today ehh!! LOL!! I love you guys!

punkeemunkee'smom replied:
Girl I was just reading your May 1st post....PLEASE don't get me going on that one today! It must be a full moon with planets aligning or something!

kimberley replied: we haven't had smoking in public for years (buildings, buses,planes etc) and are slowly phasing it out of bars/restaurants. i know they proposed having people be at least 10 feet from any public building but that didn't go through. they also proposed the car ban but i can't see that one getting through either. hard to regulate and people won't comply when they pay $30G for something then get told how to use it. smoke free is all good

TLCDad replied: I wish Ohio would get a no public smoking law. And this is coming from an ex-smoker. I want smoking banned in bars, restraunts... basically anywhere besides your own home. It is really bugs me that one of our favorite restraunts allows smoking everywhere. Theres many times we walk in and have to leave. Theres plenty of research that states second hand smoke is just as bad if not worse then smoking yourself. Obviously your not going to be around it as much as the smoker but still very unhealthy for everyone around you.

At first I was going say, however; the government has no right what you do in your own car. Then I thought about the child has no say about it. They have to be protected somehow. Honestly, I think a mother should be fined if they smoke or heavily drink while pregnant and of course even more punishment if they do illegal drugs while pregnant.

And what about the familys who are on welfare and smoke. Look at all the money they would save if they quit. I accept no excuse from anyone who says they can't quit smoking. I was addicted for many years and quit. It is quite easy to do actually. You just really want to do it.

AlexsPajamaMama replied: Maine has a no public smoking law

punkeemunkee'smom replied:
While I completly understand the arguement against smoking in public , resturants, etc in the intrest of your child's of your own exposures... I also must ask again where does the final line get drawn?If you wish to have a glass of wine with dinner what makes your desire to indulge (in a clear public health concern) any more valid than the table across the room's desire to smoke? A freedom surrendered is a freedom, that history has taught us will never be regained. As far as the welfare concerns I would imagine that just as many if not more of our chronic welfare recipients and many of our homeless' citizens lives have been destroyed by alcohol just as much as the purchase of a package of cigs. So what will be the next acceptable action? Do we return to the days of prohibition? I have just as many valid concerns about the guy driving home form the bar hitting me and my family as the effects of second hand smoke on our health! My point is that it is our freedom that is being slowly chipped away at....this time the cards have fallen on the side of the topic that suits your views. What happens when the next freedom they take away is one you treasure???

Bee_Kay replied:

Excellent point!!

My3LilMonkeys replied: ITA with Abbie on this one. The issue at hand really isn't smoking - it's government control. And though I despise smoking and would be more than happy to see it gone entirely, I'm not willing to give up my freedom for that to happen.

BAC'sMom replied:

You go girl

ilovemybaby replied:
That's fine by me. I can live without alcohol.

My point is that it is my health and my childs that smokers (that don't respect others) are putting at risk as well as their own. I have nothing against them smoking at their own house. As long as they are not dropping their cigs on my section.
This is not about what will be next... this is about my human rights as well as smokers. I'm not saying that they should ban smoking... I'm saying they should ban it in public. It honestly cannot be that hard for a smoker to go without a cigarette for an hour or two. I mean come on, I'm sure that if you work full-time 8 or more hours a day that you aren't in the toilets every half hour smoking right? Where I worked, we got one break every three and a half hours.
If they provide a staffroom for just the smokers (so the non smokers don't have to breathe in the second hand smoke) then everything would be fine. Most places in NZ do now. However, where I worked did not because the business is privately owned and the owner could do whatever he wanted. So we only had one room.

Now for one other example of something they could ban that might peeve a few of us off... breastfeeding. Why would they right? It isn't hurting anyones health to see it. And I am sure many of us would be in uproar if they did ban it.
The difference is that breastfeeding in public does not hurt anyone else. Smoking does.

I can't really see how you can relate cars and transport to smoking. The health affects on us from those are tiny compared to smoking. Second hand smoke can kill. And if you are constantly working somewhere where everyone is smoking around you then you are more at risk. What about all the people that work in bars and pubs or restaurants? Should they have to be exposed to cigarette smoke because they work there and you want to smoke there?

redchief replied: NJ just passed a public places smoking ban, too, except in the Atlantic City casinos where the owners bought an exemption from our corrupt politicians.

The following dangerous things should also be banned immediately:

The refinement of crude oil (by-products cause cancer, acid rain and depletion of ozone contributing to global warming)
-That means a ban on plastics
-That means a ban on computers; sorry guys, the manufacture of these things is deadly
-That means no more tires (which would be a moot point because)
-That means no more gasoline (which gets it's own ban because it's so nasty)
The sale of gasoline (vapors cause cancer)
The mining and refinement of coal (nasty stuff that should stay under ground where it belongs)
The sale of electricity (energy plants pollute the atmosphere and create a nuclear waste problem)
The sale of yo-yos (strings could get around a child's neck and strangle him/her)
The manufacture and sale of high-heeled shoes (ever seen a woman who didn't have foot problems after wearing THOSE things for 30 years?)
The burning of wood (increased CO2 from the smoke contributes to global warming)

Who's going to enforce this nonsense? Aww, the heck with it, I'm going to go find me a slot machine.

punkeemunkee'smom replied: Everyone has a line that they draw for themselves as to what is offensive many of our lines are parallel many are not. The danger in allowing one group to be singled out by the government lies in the fact that your group could be next!

A&A'smommy replied: After having this conversation with some locals (on our local forum) here is my opinion its good, for children, pregnant woman and people who are not smokers. But as far as making it a law where are they going to go next they are slowly taking away rights and I just wonder how far it will go JMO

luvmykids replied: I understand not wanting your kids exposed to it and supporting a ban in certain public places but to say we should just stop selling cigarettes is like saying we should stop selling formula because it's not as good as BF, who the heck is anyone else to decide that for ME?

BAC'sMom replied:

Yet another excellent point

kimberley replied:
while i agree with your point of "where is the line drawn" i do have to respectfully argue that we do not spend billions of dollars reversing the harmful effects of formula to our health smoking related diseases and illnesses chew up a huge chunk of our health care money that comes from MY tax dollars. but i guess it is different for me being canadian.

moped replied: I smoke but I also understand the laws that are being passed - it has been like that here for a long time.......I still go out and smoke in the backyard or the garage. SO I get both sides, being a bad bad smoker!!!!!

CosmetologyMommy replied: I do not smoke but dh smokes and so do most of our friends and family. If we go out, they should be able to be able to do as they please so I do not know what side to take.....

jcc64 replied:

Great debate, here, ladies, but it's also kind of all over the map. I think the main discussion here concerns government interference in our consenting adult lives. The bf in public thing to me has nothing to do with this argument- you can't equate the ability to nurture and sustain a child with the right to indulge in a potentially life threatening vice. A person who might be offended by the sight of my exposed breast in public cannot legitimately claim that they are irreparably damaged by the experience- not so with a person who is exposed to 2nd hand smoke. And our gov't has the obligation to protect the BASIC rights of all of its citizens, the most basic of which is access to clean, breathable air. I've said this here before: A person's right to live his life as he sees fit, including smoking, is fine unless and until it interferes with a person's right to breathe and be healthy. Breathing supercedes smoking, and if the two interests collide, I believe the gov't has the right and obligation to protect the unquestionably more important interest.
As far as the drinking thing goes- there are already laws to protect us against the horrifically irresponsible behavior of drinking and driving. When I was a kid, there was no MADD, no roadblocks, no DUI's. We drove drunk all the time as teenagers, it was culturally acceptable at the time. Parents served alcohol to minors all the time- that was also culturally acceptable, incredible as it now sounds. Times have changed, for the better, and so have our laws, and most importantly, so has the behavior of a majority of people around this issue. When you know better, you do better. Are people still victimized by the few selfish idiots who haven't heeded the call- of course. But we've done the prohibition thing- if people want to get high, they're gonna get high, legal or not. So, the gov't regulates it as best they can, which is what is now being attempted with these relatively modest anti-smoking proposals.
And finally, I admire the passions of those who are clinging to and concerned about our dwindling freedoms. I might remind you that they are being eroded and assaulted on a daily basis by the current administration. I find it appalling that very few people seem even remotely disturbed by the warrantless wire-tapping policy, which either is or was ILLEGAL until the Bush administration had the laws rewritten after the fact to protect their interests. So, when you're tempted to feel indignant about gov't intrusions into our private lives, remember that at any time, your conversations, on the phone or online, as well as your entire private life, can be intruded upon, without a search warrant, if the gov't so chooses. That is far scarier than being told when and where you can smoke a cigarette.

jcc64 replied:

It's no different here in the states, Kimberly. We do have publicly funded health care, for our seniors, our poor, and for most uninsured children (depending on the state). The rest is covered by private insurance, which is a complete mess here- 1 in 4 American dollars is spent on health care. Insurance is becoming unaffordable for employers and employees alike. So, yes, your decision to destroy your health becomes everyone else's problem in the end (which is kind of what I said in my first post).

luvmykids replied:
ITA with you on that I just meant it in the way that it's a personal choice. Yes, it has effect on others by means of second hand smoke, health care cost, etc. but I get touchy because I am a "respectful" smoker, don't smoke around others if it bothers them, don't complain about not being able to smoke in certain places, etc I just thought saying cigs shouldn't be sold at all was a little overboard.

redchief replied:
So, when will the government ban obesity, which, arguably, is a more serious health crisis in the US than smoking cigarettes? Don't get me wrong, I'm not even the least bit upset with the public places smoking ban. What I am opposed to is the government constantly sticking it's long, evil nose into my home and private life. It is the "no smoking in cars," the telling me how I may or may not discipline my children. When did the simple freedom to live my life and be left alone get stolen? Unfortunately it didn't happen overnight. It's been happening, little by little, since I was a child.

I didn't hire or vote for our government to come into my house and tell me how I may or may not live. Frankly I think all of them have a lot of nerve telling me how I should live. Their corruption and greed slap us in the face everyday, but they purport to know what's best for me. BS!!! They don't have the right under the Constitution to "protect me from myself", but they have found ways in which to do it (including the wiretaps Jeanne mentioned). Big Brother isn't just a fictional character in Orwell's 1984; he's alive and well and working himself more and more into my life; and I resent every second of it.

jcc64 replied:

Oh, they're working on it- don't you remember Nichole's incident with her ds's school?
I hear what you're saying Ed, buy c'mon, doesn't it boil your blood to see kids in cars with smoking parents? Who's gonna look out for their interests, if their parents clearly aren't? And doesn't it then become our problem when those kids wind up in the ER with uncontrolled asthma b/c they don't have health insurance? Been through this argument already, you know where I stand.
Diet is alot harder to control- we all have to eat, but smoking, well, that's an easy thing to regulate. And besides, I'm not advocating a complete smoking ban- choose your poison- but do it where it's not gonna mess up my lungs (or those of innocent kids, who as usual, don't get to choose their fate).

redchief replied:
I do indeed remember that incident and others. It's appalling, and that was the reason I chose to respond with that example. You're right! Eating is harder to control than smoking (but please don't pooh-pooh the efforts of the nicotine addicts that have quit; any addiction is difficult to beat, and I haven't beaten it yet myself).

My main point continues to be that the government doesn't belong in our lives everyday. I guarantee that, if things keep up as they are, in ten years child abuse will include allowing a child to be fat. I don't agree with it. I don't ever want it to happen, but it will, because they think they know what is best for us.

JAYMESMOM replied: I am an ex-smoker who chose to quit on my own accord. The government has no right to come in and say what can be done in the privacy of my home/car, etc.

Public places as far as busineeses I can see but a bar or restauratns are ridiculous to me. Each bar or restaurant can decide for themselves if they want to allow smoking. I personally never freqented non-smoking places when I smoked. I took my business elsewhwere.

What is next for the government? IF they can say we shouldnt do it shoudl we let them?

It is a fine line between community health and control.

These laws are all about control. They are limiting something that they are saying is completely legal except wherever they deem you are not allowed to do it.

It makes no sense.

And personally I think 1 drink is too much to drive or have around kids. I dont drink in front of my kids and dont like others to. But I would never get up and move in a restaurant because someone was drinking or smoking it is their right.

Crystalina replied:
I agree with many things here. I can understand people not wanting the goverment to tell them when and where they can smoke but I do think you should not smoke in public places because I just go nuts when I smell cig smoke. I definately do not want my kiddies to inhale it. That is my right. They should pass a law specifying not to do it in your car if a child is with you. That I would understand and I would have to agree with. The child shouldn't have to pay because an adult smoker wants to puff away on a cancer stick.

I am an ex-smoker. I smoked for about 12 yrs and before I had children I wanted to quit all the time and I tried and tried and it never happend. Finally, I got pregnant with Izabella and had to quit. I've never picked up a cigarrette again. It is very hard and the cravings have not left but I have two very good reasons to never do it again. I think that if your love for your children is strong enough you can sacrifice anything. I did it for my health, their health and so they wouldn't grow up with the image of a cig hanging out of mommys mouth all the time. Not to mention that most smokers have parents that smoke (which mine did) and I'd like to break that cycle.

But back to the gov. I think that yes, if a child is involved you should be told not to do it in a vehicle. Why would someone want to do that anyway?

My2Beauties replied: I had to come back to this topic because I knew what I said would cause up some stir. Never in a million years would the gov't completely ban smoking and I know this, I was just re-iterating that I cannot STAND smoke. If I go to a restuarant, Joe Blow having a drink is not affecting my health one bit, as long as he is responsible and lets someone else drive or doesn't have over his limit. But when he lights up that cig and puffs away, it's getting into my lungs. That is my point. My mentality is not to ban cigarettes, that was just being sarcastic. If anyone chooses to smoke, that is their business, but do it far far away from me and my child. I battle this everyday with DH's family. It's nothing for them to light up a cigarette in front of Hanna and they are totally ignorant to what it can do to a child's health. She already has allergies, what's next are they gonna give her asthma too? It's a proven fact that children that are around second hand smoke have way more health problems then that of a child not exposed to it. It's proven and I don't care what anyone else says. Which is the reason I am getting my child away from that environment. And whomever thinks it's ok and that it's their right to smoke in their car with their child or anyone else's child in the car for that matter is the most absurd thing. Where is the child's rights?????? Please someone tell me!!!

Oh and Jeanne, are you sure we weren't twins seperated at birth. I swear in probably 98% of your posts, you read my mind and say exactly what I am thinking.

holley79 replied: Well in the state of Florida you can not smoke in an establishment that serves food and not within 50 feet of a public building. I use to smoke and was all for the no smoking in resturants. As for bars or anything like that.... I had to have a smoke in one hand and drink in the other... It doesn't bother me to be around smoke but I do request that everyone smoke outside and not around Annika.

luvmykids replied:
Ditto.