Responsibility poll

cameragirl21 wrote: It should be obvious what inspired this poll. As always, feel free to comment or not.

my2monkeyboys replied: I think if everyone focused on personal responsibility, then the need for so much help would dwindle dramatically, and those that still needed help would receive it from others freely, not because it's taken through our taxes. I think people have a basic goodness, a generous spirit for those around them, but not when it seems those "in need" are there by choice as much or more so than by circumstances.
Everyone hits hard patches in life and needs assistance, but if you aren't taking responsibility for your own self, how can you/why should you expect others to continuously help?

My2Beauties replied:
I think you are right but you also have to understand that unfortunately it's just not going to work this way. People come from different backgrounds, upbringings, countries, financial status, etc....so I think this is something that honestly will never happen I think social responsibility is more important because you're looking out for the greater good, helping your neighbors along the way and maybe even your children down the road. I like your last sentence though and I understand where you are coming from, but here's my thing, I have no pity for those that choose to not help themselves I really don't despite what others may think on this board. I can't stand people who work the system, collect welfare and disability when they are completely able-bodied...that being said if they have children, I think as a society we have to try our hardest not to let their children fall through the cracks as well. if they don't want to help themselves then so be it, but their children cannot suffer along with them. It's sad we have to think this way, but we do unfortunately.

DVFlyer replied: Who's "greater good"?

coasterqueen replied:
ITA

coasterqueen replied:
I'd like to know that as well.

Nina J replied: I think I would almost place equal value on both. But I would say personal responsibility.

If you are responsible for your money, you lifestyle, etc, and you do a good job of it, then that's good. Like, monitor what you spend, don't go above your means, make sure you are secure. Monitor what you eat, your lifestyle behaviours, take care of yourself. And your home, cleaning, laundry, etc. And hopefully everything works out well for you, hopefully you are financially secure, you're healthy, etc, etc.

I think if you manage your personal affairs properly, that puts you in a better position to be socially responsible. If you get what I am trying to say. Because if you're not personally responsible, how can you be socially responsible? I don't think you can. If you don't take care of your own finances, how can you help a friend or family member in need? I know I have had friends who have needed to borrow some money for whatever reason. And I don't mind, with certain people. So if they come to me I can say, I am able to give you $200 (or whatever) at the moment. Because I am responsible for my finances and I know that $200 isn't going to be missed by us. And when I am being socially responsible and helping out a friend, I also remain personally responsible. Like, I would factor in my personal affairs when dealing with this situation and because I am personally responsible I am not going to lend them more money than I am able to.

And at the same time, if a friend asks me for money, if I know they are personally responsible and take good care of themselves, I have no problems lending them some money, because I know they will give it back when they are able to.

And even the most personally responsible people have some troubles sometimes. No one is perfect. One of my closest friends is unable to work because of health reasons, and gets assistance from the government. But they're still personally responsible, they live within their means. And before, they were personally responsible as well, they took care of themselves, financially and physically. It wasn't their fault what happened to them and now they need assistance to live, they still remain responsible. I don't like to see people who recieve help from the government when they don't deserve it, they don't look for a job, or whatever. They give a bad name to the people who worked for years and years and were responsible and one unfortunate incident meant that they needed help themselves.

my2monkeyboys replied: Exactly, Nina!

My2Beauties replied: The greater good is society as a whole

jcc64 replied: I've said this before on this board, and got slammed for it, but tbh, I've never had anyone respond in a way that put it to rest for me, so I'm just going to say it again.
With regard to religion and spirituality, I am on an ongoing quest to figure out what I can believe and hang onto, and probably will be until the day I die. I was, however, raised a Catholic (even went to Catholic school for a few years, believe it or not), and simply by virtue of living in a predominantly Christian culture, I think I have a pretty good handle on the tenets of Jesus' teachings. I cannot for the life of me reconcile the fact that so many people in this country claim to be practicing Christians while simultaneously having such punishing attitudes toward people who are struggling. Is this what Jesus would have done, to quote a popular phrase? Did Jesus say to the prostitutes, beggars, and lepers he encountered, "You should have been more responsible--look at the mess you've made of your lives. It's all your fault, you made your bed, now lie in it." I think if he had, we wouldn't all be following his word to this day, kwim?

DVFlyer replied:
This back and forth is evidence of what I'm saying.

You and I can't agree on what is better between personal and social responsibility yet somehow you think we would agree on what is good for a society?

I don't know which one is better than the other, but I find it hard to believe two people- let alone a whole world- could agree on the same thing when it comes to what's good.

It is nice to see that you think in terms of society as a whole and the greater good....

My2Beauties replied:
I think you're over analyzing what I'm trying to say here. As I've mentioned before I have no sympathy for people who live off the system and mooch off those who work and do what they're supposed to do, I'm not saying they are the greater good - but to me, and maybe a lot of you don't think this way but I do, their children are the greater good to me, they are our future, why not give them a chance at making some sort of decent life for themselves and being good members of society. I don't think it's fair for someone's child to be homeless because of their bad mistakes - no I don't! Now if they are single, no kids, no job, living off the gov't etc....they made their bed like many of you have said. I understand this gets into a huge can of worms, well then people are just going to have kids because then they'll get more help with children, blah blah blah.....you can look at it from every angle and no angle is right....the only thing that matters is that child get a fighting chance regardless! I can see everyone's argument but "the greater good" is our future. I guess I should have been more specific.

My2Beauties replied: Oh and I hope your wasn't meant sarcastically, I sort of felt belittled when you did that...maybe I am overanalyzing that

MommyToAshley replied:
I have heard you make this statement before and I am not sure what you perceive as a punishing attitude. I think it is quite possible to have empathy for people while at the same time believe that one is responsible for their own actions. I am assuming this is going back to the debate about the economic crisis and people losing their houses and who is to blame. I do empathize with people who may lose their homes, and it is sad situation and I would not want to see anyone be in that situation. However, I don't think that other people should pay for this person's home because they spent beyond their means. I don't know if the legislation passed or not, but congress was trying to force banks to renegotiate loans lowering the value of loan, but why not just renegotiate the terms and still hold the homeowner responsible for their own debt. Maybe the person has to sell the home and buy a smaller home, pay on their house a few years longer, or go without cable, give up their cell phone, and give up the name brand clothes, give up the RVs and extravagant vacations and start to live within their means. I do empathize with those hardworking individuals that lost their jobs, their savings, and possibly their homes through no fault of their own. It's those people I think we need better programs in place to help. I believe in programs for the poor, homeless, and underprivileged, but I think these programs should include training and education to give these people fundamental skills to be self-sufficient. I believe most people don't want a handout but would rather support themselves and I believe in helping and giving them the tools to do so.

Since you brought up the question or religion, and wonder how one can have empathy and expect personal responsibility, I will share my views...

We are all sinners, my sins are no worse or better than those of the prostitute you mentioned. And, I would not pass judgement (you know, he who casts the first stone...) The reason Jesus came to this earth was to call sinners to repentance. Jesus soundly declared the message in His day: "repent ye, and believe the gospel." Those who did not see themselves as sinners were not candidates for God's salvation. The only way a sinner will come to reject his own righteousness is by coming face to face with his own sins. Repentance is not only for sin, but also from sin. (This is the part where the idea of personal responsibility comes in) We must forsake what we would have God forgive. Jesus thought repentance was important enough that He preached it, so I tend to think it is pretty important too.

my2monkeyboys replied: I could not have said it better myself, Dee Dee.
You can love someone and help them, but the best help includes teaching them and giving them the proper tools to help themselves as well.

DVFlyer replied:
Totally meant the sincerely....

Just wanted you to know that I think the fact you think about society as a whole and the greater good was an honorable thing.

Cece00 replied: Personal responsibility, of course. The need for social responsibilty lowers as personal responsibility rises. Unfortunetly, there are a lot of people who just dont believe in personal responbility, or dont have enough.

Social responsibility is important, to an extent, but its not most important.

My2Beauties replied:
Ok thank you. It's so hard to "hear" how something is being said over the net.