Questions for piercers... - How do you feel about circumcision?

bravofrenchie wrote: Now, this is all very interesting. I'll admit that I've been a little sneaky, and that there was a reason that I made the piercing poll. I really hope that I won't start a huge fight, but I have a question for the 62.5% (right now) of people who said that they would let their daughters decide if they want to pierce their ears: Do you feel the same about circumcising your sons? If you did it for medical reasons, that I can understand. But if you did it simple to "make him look like daddy/brothers", isn't that a cosmetic surgery? Wouldn't that be like saying, "I have pierced ears, and I want my daughter's ears to be pierced so she'll look like me." Just a thought...

moped replied: Well this will be interesting - I had my son circumsiced because of all the things you hear about infection later in life, so we did..........my husband father had to get done at 21 because of infection, so that was my reasoning.

Ears, I think when they are old enought o know that it will hurt at first - LOL......my neice got hers done when she passed grade 4, I think I got mine done when I passed Grade 2!!!!!!

gr33n3y3z replied: I'll Bite lol
sneaky? yes you are Do I care how you feel about either no not at all because to each its own for anyones reasoning which they decided to get it done or not, ears or a penis Its up to them and it makes no ones decissions wrong I just dont understand why you should try and trap people like that and that pisses me off to no end Sorry for cussing but that is low.
I would say ears are alot diffrent than a penis.

moped replied: Agreed - ears are no comparison to penis

jcc64 replied: I actually think you have a valid point.
See my post(s) on the last circumcision thread we had regarding ears and penises.

loveydad replied: Okay, this pisses me off, honestly;. I get this a lot. Piercing ears is a- not must have. I know people who lived their whole lives very comfortably without them.
however, a know a little boy who was two years old and never had the procedure done. He would leak his diaper out everytime he peed from the time he was tiny. It was a really bad thing not having it. I think it's a neccesity, it has some really good benifits down the road.

I hate these controversial posts. LMAO

bravofrenchie replied: I'm sorry if I've made anybody mad, I'm just trying to find the connection. It just seems to me that there is no definate, scientifically proven, every doctor recommends it reason to do it. Go to one pediatrician, and he'll say that it's necessary and will prevent infections, but the next pediatrician will say no, there are no medical benifits, and he personally will refuse to do them. Doctors with the same schooling, experience, and credentials will say two totally opposite things, so what to do?
To me, it just seems like an extreme procedure that prevents possible infections. Well, appendecitis (sp?) is an infection & inflammation of the appendix that is very painful & life threatening if it is not treated, but I don't see people automatically sending their infants into surgery to remove their appendix. I personally have lived my whole life without so much as a peep from my appendix. And I personally know of about 10 men who have lived their whole lives with absolutly no problems with their foreskin. "I know someone who's son/father/brother/husband/boyfriend had to have it done as an adult becuase of infections" seems to be an unstable reason to circumcise to me.
As for infections, infections happen all the time with girls/women. It's par for the course. I'll bet that every woman here (me included) has had a UTI or yeast infection, or if they haven't, they will sometime in their lives. A woman's infections are treated with antibiotics and any number of medications, but if an intact boy/man gets an infection, it has to be cut off? It just seems unfair to me.
Again, I'm sorry if I've offended/annoyed anyone, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the whole thing.

moped replied: To each their own!!!!!

TeagansMom609 replied: Well have you ever heard of a woman not wanting to be intimate with a man because he doesn't have his ears pierced? No... But have you heard of women not wanting to be intimate with a man because he isn't circumcised? Yes! That's all I have to say... and yes the chances of an uncircumcised man getting an infection is higher. Why do you think female's get infection's easier then men? Simple...we have more skin, nooks and cranny's down there. Therefor a man with more skin down south will also get infections easier and more frequently then a man who has less.

Oh, and by the way, it seems your trying to start an argument on this board. If thats the case, I would suggest going into the AOL's "18 and loving it room."

LovingmyBoriqua replied: Whatever reasons you may dislike the operation is fine. But, some people have their reason on proceeding the operation. I had both of my boys circumsized and what decision i made was up to me and nobody could and could've changed my mind. But my husband wish his mother did circumsized him and now hes 24 yrs old the procedure cant be done you think a 24 yr old will have a procedure done on his penis now that he can feel the operation i dont think so.. I mean if this was made up to children i think most of them wouldnt want the procedure now that they are older and able to feel the pain afterwards. JMO

LovingmyBoriqua replied:
LOL @ AOLS ROOM HA HA HA SORRY HAD TO LAUGH

moped replied: WHAT FUN ON A FRIDAY NIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MomToMany replied: I have no comment to this.

bravofrenchie replied: Sorry. I didn't realize that debates weren't allowed on this board.

loveydad replied: Actually, yeah, most women get them - my daughter just did. Men get them too sometimes-

but men also get a lot of the same things that women do and they don't cut anything off. the simply trim the skin. Trust me its been done for ages. It doesn't really compare at all with piercing a child's ears.

Anyhow, if you believe it's pointless don't do it. I realize you weren't trying to offend or piss anyone off but I believe some people felt like you were trying to trap them. THis board just doesn't do well with contrevorsy, we all like each other too much.

jolene555 replied: I have not had the pleasure of having a son, yet, but I am having a really hard time with the grasp of comparing circumcision to ear piercing. Give me a break! All of these folks make very valid arguements, and I agree with most of what's been said. I would be very interested in finding out how many men decide to circumsize themselves when given the choice, and how many of them wished their parents had circumcized them as infants. Or maybe how many circumsized men are out there who are upset that they were circumcized, or traumatized by the procedure???

And by the way, if piercing my daughter's ears, which is a very simple procedure, in any way prevented infections (that have the potential of hurting her future sex life or her abilty to bear children) I would go out there today and get her ears pierced - absulutely no question.

Obviously I am for circumcision personally, but I do not understand why this is even an issue. If you have a problem with me circumcizing my son (who doesn't even exist, by the way) then you can blow it out your a**. This, to me, is like argueing religion. No one will change their mind, and you'll just offend a lot of people by bringing it up.

Mommy2BAK replied: HAHA... this is crazy!

We all get along too well here and it makes me sad to see us have these debates!

Honestly piercing my daughters ears as opposed to circumsizing my son.... THEY ARE NOTHING ALIKE!!!!
To me circumsizim is a health risk, ears are a vanity issue.

Ok there is my (2 cents)

MommyToAshley replied:
Debates, differing opinions, and discussions are encouraged. However, we are all adults and ask that the members here treat each other with respect. We just ask that when a member states their opinion, they discuss the topic and not use personal attacks or insult one another.

Josie83 replied:
me either. these sort of conversations always end up with ppl being upset - there's not really any need to start things off for the sake of it. xx

Maddie&EthansMom replied: There is nothing wrong with a healhty debate. Just go into it voicing your knowlegde and opinions without being offensive or trying to get one to change their mind on the subject.

I think circumcision is there for those who wish to have it done and if they don't that is fine too. We are all entitled to our opinions. I don't judge one on whether or not they have their child's ears pierced or have their son circumcised. My friends give me the same respect I give them. They tell me their reasoning (if I ask) and I give them my reasonings if they ask for it. There is no need to try to force someone into seeing your point of view. Diversity is what makes the world go round.

This is a very close board here. We have healthy debates at times and we are able to do that out of respect for one another. You are more than welcome to participate in some of the other topics as well. We welcome new members. I think some of us only saw that you have a few posts and you aren't an active member on this board. It seemed as though instead of you asking for opinions or advice/knowledge on the subject of circumcision you tricked everyone and told them they were wrong for what they have chosen to do with their own child. No one is wrong, btw. Differing in opinions, yes, but not wrong. I hope you stick around so we can get to know you better.

MommyToAshley replied:
Very well said, Aimee. I think this is what I was trying to say, only you did it better. And, I agree with Aimee, I hope you stick around so that we can get to know you better.

loveydad replied:
LMAO I have to laugh at that being tramatized thing. "Oh yeah my parents circumcised me when I was 2 days old and I've just never gotten over it! EVERYTHING THATS WRONG WITH MY LIFE IS BECAUSE OF THAT!!" lmao.

bravofrenchie replied: Okay, here goes...
I do not have any children yet, but am thinking about it in the near future. I've been reading pregnancy & baby books since high school, learning all I can and squirreling it away for future reference. (Worried the small-town librarian, who personally knew me. "Are you SURE your not pregnant?" after I checked out some baby book for like the 5th time.) Since I don't personally know many women with small babies (most mothers I know had their kids 20 or 30 years ago, so their memories are fuzzy and/or their parenting info is very out-dated.)
Now, I have never called anyone here a bad mother. I'm truly trying to be civil and not scream "CHILD MUTILATION" or anything like that, because I know that when people hear that, their mind just shuts. But talking about pro-circ, even online, actually makes me have a physical reaction. My chest constricts, I get hot, and my eyes tear up. I actually burst into tears while I argued with my DH about this recently. I just can't physically wrap my brain around it.

As for the debate at hand:

Quotes from another board that addressed this very question-

"He said he always wondered what sex would be like intact, that he heard it was like color vs. black and white. He felt that his parents should have asked him because it was his personal body part, and he felt violated that someone handled his penis and did that to him when he was vulnerable and helpless."

"When I was about 7 years old, I saw one of my friends who was intact and instantly knew there was something wrong with me, not him. I finally learned what had happened when I was about 12 or 13 and was very upset about it."

"As a typical Scandinavian, I didn't know that something that horrible existed. And I knew that most jews/muslims here do not circ. Then 2 things happened. First, I used to work with international projects in aid organisation. I met older jewish man who was in the project and we ended up talking about children's rights. Long story short - I found out he was circumcised according to his religion and it had gone wrong. He had never been able to have normal sexlife due to that (he and his wife had children..done with other methods). Naturally his children were intact and he was very much against circumcision, religious or not.

The second thing that happened was me moving to USA. My (American) spouse showed me family pictures and there was an old picture of cousins, aged 3-5, in bathtub. Both circumcised. It was the first time ever I saw a circumcised penis. And on a child, to see that exposed glans made me sick, I almost threw up. It looked so horrible for me. From my cultural background, an exposed glans means aroused adult penis so my brain went totally crazy.

Those two things together made me realise that it is indeed a human rights issue and cruely done to innocent babies. The medical 'excuse' has no validation to me since I come from intact culture and know the truth about so called medical benefits."

TeagansMom609 replied: Oh brother....

Some people have way too much time on their hands...

bucky replied: That above quote is based on someone from another country, background, and culture than 99.999% of Americans, obviously people in other countries are raised differently. I don't think that can really be used.

From a mans point of view, I couldn't have imagined not getting my son circumsized (sp). The end.

loveydad replied: IF you don't have any kids, havent' been in this situation, what right do you have to preach to us. You're welcome to stay if you have constructive stuff to add to the situation. Otherwise, grow up. Try having a kid. It'll change your mind in a lot of ways.

By the way, you can call me a bad mother all you want! LOL

amynicole21 replied: Flame me if you will, but I wouldn't circumcise a baby boy for the exact same reason I wouldn't pierce my daughter's ears. But, that's just me.

loveydad replied: and thats perfectly okay!! i believe parents do what they believe is best - and for the most part they're right.

jcc64 replied: Everyone who's been on this board for awhile knows where I stand on this issue. And while some people claim to be tolerant and respectful about other people's opinions here, every time this subject comes up I find myself feeling very offended by some of the comments made about intact males. Teagansmom, I'm sorry, but as the wife and mom of 3 intact males, your assertion that intimacy with them is repulsive is well, repulsive in itself. I don't shy away from debate, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions on the subject. Other than the surrepticious manner in which she brought the topic up, I frankly fail to find anything overly offensive in Bravofrenchie's post. It's her opinion, and the very fact that you may disagree with it shouldn't render it offensive in and of itself. But when someone accuses intact males of being offensive, that to me strays from the etiquette of a healthy debate.
And for the gazillionth time, 50% of baby boys born in the United States are NOT circumsized. So while you may not have run across any of them, by the time your children are teenagers, they surely will. And hopefully by then, people's minds will be a little more open on this subject.

mammag replied: I am one that thinks it is up to each person.

My husband is not circumcised but we had all three boys done because he always felt insecure about it and wanted the boys to not have to worry about it. I'm not sure about hygiene, my husband has no problems and I don't have a problem being with him.

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
I agree. We need to keep it civil. We can all have differing opinions without name calling. Jeanne's facts are correct. We need to remember there is no right or wrong here. It is 50/50. This is a legal procedure and everyone makes their own personal decisions regarding this issue. As long as it is legal, people will be having it done. It has been in practice for many, many years and I doubt anything will change no matter how strongly some may feel about it.

Personally, I've seen intact males and non intact males. To me, the penis is not the prettiest body part regardless if it is intact or not. Same goes for the vagina. So, who really cares what it 'looks like' doesn't it work the same?? Furthermore, an erect uncirc'd penis looks the same as a circumcised penis. JMHO here.

To each it's own, ya know? I refuse to say whether I'm for or against it....I see both points of view and I personally let my DH decide.

loveydad replied: It's a heated topic and it just seems that this person, who doesn't even have any kids at all, is trying to tel lus it's so horrible - like abortion or any other thing. Whether you're for it or not, what makes me mad is Circumsicion has NOTHING to do with ear piercing. They're not really like in any way. Ever heard a doctor reccomend someone get their ears pierced? Ones medical ones vanity- at least for me. That may be different for some.

It seemed like we were being trapped- since we'd already said we'd pierce ears... you know,. it's happened to me before and it seems kinda slimey.

Just my opinion okay? I don't want to amke anyone mad

for me its an issue because i've got kid i think I want to be like me, it's easit this way. I know how to care of them. And for the medical reasons I've stated before - like an abundance of diapers!

redchief replied: I'm neither a fan of or against circumcision. I am circumsized and have no regrets or anger that I was "cut." I know several other men that are not circumcised, and their equipment seems to work fine too. In fact most of the people I know, both ways, are happily married and have the same problems everyone else does... none of which involve whether or not their mate likes their equipment.

This debate was run on this board in the past and I found that many people have very strong feelings one way and the other. Most people on this board prefer circumcision, mostly for percieved social acceptance. Were most of the members of this board European, I suspect the opinions would be starkly different since in Europe, circumcision is only performed for religeous and medical reasons. For most people, social "normality" is important.

There are several medical benefits to circumcision, primary being the reduction in the occurance of urinary tract infections. There are also several circumstances which make the procedure necessary to prevent deformation of the penis due to the foreskin not being able to fully retract over the glans. I know of at least one religion that requires that boys be circumcised.

There is no evidence that STD's are less common in circumcised males than in males who are not circumcised. In fact, recent studies show just the opposite. The foreskin allows the glans to remain in a natural moist state, thereby allowing for better resistance to infection, especially bacterial infections such as chlamydia and herpes. I personally think that we need to teach our children, both male and female, as they come into their adolescent years, to protect themselves during any sexual activity, thereby making this argument somewhat moot.

Both of my sons are circumcised, and this was done to make the boys "like dad."
Given the information I have on the subject now, as opposed to what I knew then, I can't be certain that I would have the procedure done today. My DW has already weighed in on the subject and I think that, if we were to discuss circumcision today, we would have a colorful argument.

Finally, as I said, we on this board have had a similar thread in the past and I found that everyone handled the subject maturely. While I didn't weigh in on the piercing poll, I have watched even the most passionate of my fellow members have mature debate on nearly every subject. I feel that simply beginning an opinion thread regarding circumcision would have produced the honest, heartfelt opinions that were sought.

As usual... I type too much. But that's my PEACE

jcc64 replied: Very well said, Ed. Same to you, Aimee.

TeagansMom609 replied: Well this girl got what she wanted. She wanted drama, and here it is. 30 some posts. Well, im not going to write a book about where I stand, and how I feel. Lets not lose sleep over it, im surely not. Let it go!