Question for you all - Watada
paradisemommy wrote: Not sure if this is headline news or just over here but there is a gentleman who joined the army reserves (i think) because he felt it was his duty, blah blah blah. Come time for his assignment, he was ordered to active duty and being sent to Iraq. Now this gentleman just happens to be a 2nd Lieutenant and in charge of quite a few men. To make this short, he refused to deploy, didn't show up for his active duty assignment and has decided that the war in Iraq is illegal and that's why he won't go. Now it seems like hundreds maybe even thousands have backed him up and are making him out to be this hero for standing up. Personally, he totally disgusts me (being in the military) and I think he is a total coward. He just so happens to be from here (born and raised I believe) and his trial is this week.
Anyone care to share their opinions? Hero? or Coward?
And if found guilty, what do you think would be a fair punishment?
Boys r us replied: Coward!
He signed up to be in the military..that measn you support your "chief's" decision and do your job whether you agree with the decision or not.
So many people sign up to be in the military b/c of the good benefits etc..but everyone knows the risk of being deployed to go to a foreign land for war exists, in my opinion, you want the fringe benefits of being military then you need to do the job too and the job entails more than just "training" for the day of war..it includes going to war if you are called upon to do so!
sparkys2boys replied: coward... he knew when he inlisted what may or may not happen. He needs to accept what he chose ..IMO
TheOaf66 replied: coward and the punishment obviously dishonorable discharge and possible some jail time it is the same if not worse then draft dodgers of the 60's and look what happened to them, but this guy was already enlisted so I am not sure how you would really punish that deportation 
CantWait replied: Coward. It's his job, he knew when he signed up that there was a big possibility that he would be deployed some day. Soldiers aren't given the choice whether or not they want to go and they know that from day 1.
Our headlines have shown that quite a few U.S. soldiers trying to escape going to Iraq are fleeing over to our side of the country and hiding. Disgusting I say. 
paradisemommy replied: EXACTLY..my dh and i have both been totally disgusted by him because what kind of an example is he making for all the guys under him and i'm even more disgusted at the people that are standing behind him and encouraging him. i think they are making a big deal out of it because he is saying the war is illegal and immoral (like standing up to the president is going to make a big difference).
but dh and i both agree that's its just as bad as treason..
obviously jail time - i said 10 yrs, dh says 20 yrs - dishonorable discharge and i think he should have to pay back every last cent he got from the army.
mom2my2cuties replied: Definate Coward.
It isn't as if he wasn't aware of the war before joining....Also, something else, once you join the US Military in any branch including the reserves, you in essece become US Government Property, and they can do as they wish for you.
coasterqueen replied:
You took ALL the words right out of my mouth. I couldn't agree with you more.
luvbug00 replied: What an idiot. yeah deffinate coward.
grapfruit replied: I agree w/everyone else.
You know my really good friend joined the Air Force RIGHT before 9/11. She of course NEVER thought we'd go to war then. She was in boot camp when the towers were hit. I think about her, do you think she wants us to go to war? No, but would she? Of course, that's her JOB. In fact she's going to OSU right now majoring in Arabic so she can be a better help if needed.
You make a commitment you stick to it. If you didn't want to stand up for your country you shouldn't have stood up.
MyBrownEyedBoy replied: Okay, I will be the first to admit that I hate this war. I believe it was started under false pretenses and is costing way too many of our soldiers lives and limbs. However, our military is a voluntary one. This man made the decision to sign up, he wasn't drafted in against his will. And I do not find it heroic at all for him to desert now. In fact, I find it kind of cowardly.
Boo&BugsMom replied: I'm with the majority...coward! When you enlist you are signing up to serve your country. How the heck is he doing that by pulling this trick?! It's the chance you take when you enlist. If you feel at all against anything in the military then you shouldn't enlist to begin with. And what kind of example is he setting for those men below him then? Not a good one. What a moron!
C&K*s Mommie replied:
 fully!
cameragirl21 replied: i am not a big fan of this war BUT if you enlist in the military, especially during war time then you should expect to be deployed and you can't back out all of a sudden and cause a whole uproar, especially when there are men under you who can be influenced.
my understanding is that when you're in the military you follow orders, not cause mutiny.
idk about the word, coward, a-hole is more like it IMO....
boyohboyohboy replied: PLEASE DONT ATTACK ME!
I have not been one to play devils advocate here on this board...but I was just sitting here thinking..as a mom of a son, what if my son, wanted to do the right thing and enlisted, (now keep in mind I do not know anyone in the service so I dont know much about training and what not).. but lets say once he was deployed he became terrified of death.. its one thing to intend to do the right thing but what if faced with the actual situation, he was scared to death and couldnt do it...
I still agree with a punishment, but is it really that bad?
and also how about this situation, if you were a soldier in iraq would you want this man who doesnt want to be there, who doesnt believe in the war, standing next to you, hoping he has your back???
again i was just thinking as a mom of boys, how would i feel if this were my son..
i am not a confrontational woman 
cameragirl21 replied:
but Stacy, this guy is a reservist, not a young kid and he's also a lieutenant, not just a soldier.
i see where you're coming from, just noting that he wasn't that young and should have known what he was doing.
when you join the army reserves during times of war you have to know that you can be deployed and can never come home.
that's why many people don't enlist at all. 
PrairieMom replied:
I don't have time to get into it now, but I'm with you on this one.
He's no hero. I don't know about coward either.
Hillbilly Housewife replied: I don't agree that he's a coward. You all know that although I support the soldiers, I don't support the war.... and how many people publicly make protests? Protests are rarely on the news... and kudos for him for standing up sooo publicly - at least this is getting the media attention it deserves.
Yes, what he did was dumb and deserves to have military punishment... but geez, i'm tired of hearing bush blabber on the so called 'war on terror'. It's nice to hear someone say "stupid war" for a change....
So while I don't htink he's a hero, I admire his courage to make such a statment in the public eye and bringing the media attention this deserves... but at the same time, he's such an idiot. 
PrairieMom replied:
now that I finally have time to comment...  Thanks Rocky, you said it for me. 
msoulz replied: I think once you sign up for the military you accept that you no longer think for yourself. Your duty is to follow orders or lives are put at risk. At least, that is my understanding, as a non military person. That being said, he had the duty to do what he was told to do.
As a non military person, if my boss told me to go to Iraq I'd tell him that he will have to fire me because I will not go. That is my right as a civilian.
I don't necessarily think he is a coward but he is in the wrong job. Nor is he a hero by any stretch.
I am grateful to those folks who are in the military. It's certainly not for the weak-stomached like myself.
And I hope my son (and daughter) have the choice and choose not to join the military because of the risk. If they do enlist or become drafted I will support them 100% no matter what they are assigned to do. But I am guessing most mothers feel this way.
Maddie&EthansMom replied: He's a coward. No two ways about it.
Please keep us posted on what happens to him. I've not heard anything about it.
PrairieMom replied:
Okay. Lets just say... for arguments sake you start a job (or join the military) um... 8 years ago, when your boss was not an idiot. Then about 6 years ago, you get a NEW boss, who IS an idiot. (for arguments sake ) would you still blindly follow orders given to you that you don't agree with that may get you KILLED or force you to kill innocent people, which is something that you would have to live with for the rest of your life?
don't get me wrong, he was definitely in the wrong line of work if he couldn't belly up to his responsibilities. I think he should go to jail for treason or what ever it is they do to deserters. I can't say I blame him tho, or that I personally would be brave enough to put my life on the line and do the things that our soldiers do for us.
C&K*s Mommie replied: Maybe since I am on the opposing side of opinions as you, Rocky, I take notice but there are plenty of people saying "stupid war". Just as you are tired of hearing President Bush talk of the war on terror, I am tired just the same but from the other side of opinions.
skinkybaby replied:
Then you don't reenlist. Pretty simple.
boyohboyohboy replied: I have to say also that I didnt read the article, I had heard of this man briefly some time ago, but i was strictly thinking as a mom on this one.
paradisemommy replied: http://www.thankyoult.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehren_Watada
if you want to read about him
eta that second link which is much better than the first one
MomToJade&Jordan replied: This is what I know about this story. He actually enlisted right after the war in Iraq started. He said like everyone else he wanted to go because he thought that we were in the right. He doesn't believe that we are anymore and I agree...BUT he enlisted which means he has to go. I think someone said above that once you sign those papers you become property of the US government. This man did not follow orders and that is a very BIG deal in the Military. One of the worst things that you can bring upon yourself is a dishonorable discharge from the military. It can actually affect future employment. I'm going to say he's a coward. he should no better and is setting a very nad example for the troops below him.
lisar replied: COWARD.... Mainly cause I think once you sign up then you know what you have gotten yourself into. I think he is just a scardy cat to go over there and just wanted to reep the benifits of working for the military. I agree with the majority on this one.
mysweetpeasWil&Wes replied: Interesting...DH and I were just talking about this in bed last night. Not about this guy, but we were watching Band of Brothers and I was asking all these questions since I know little about the military. Different war in the movie of course, but I'm thinking about those guys on D-day...what if they said "no, I don't want to be dropped off on the beach...let me go on a different assignment"...and DH told me that you HAVE to follow chief orders. Scary thought, but it's part of being in the military! I also said, well why can't you just run like HE(double hockey sticks) out of there and just go hide somewhere? That's what I would do! And again, he told me that you are taught to follow orders and punished if you don't.
Anyhow, enough about my thoughts last night. I suppose I believe coward is a strong word...but I DEFINATELY agree with the majority here and say that he is doing the wrong thing. I support the war efforts...and since he signed-up voluntarily, he should too. He is showing a bad example IMO.
For a mom with two boys, I would support my boys if they "voluntarily" signed-up to be in the military. If they were drafted and didn't want to go, well that would be a whole different story.
Maddie&EthansMom replied:
Sort of off topic, but this reminds me of the movie a Few Good Men when those men followed their orders and were still given a dishonorable discharge.  They kept saying "But we were given orders and we just did as we were told." It's so true...they HAVE to follow orders. That's a huge part of it.
JadensMama05 replied: Wow you all have very good points.. I dunno what to think here. I mean I'm kinda torn. I don't agree with the war, first of all but I do think that once you enlist (especially if it's not during peacetime), you should continue with your term or whatever it's called. I think it's great that this man is saying what he thinks and all but he has an obligation as a soldier also. I'm sure lotsa soldiers don't agree with everything but still follow through. But then I also think like Stacy (calebsmom) and Rocky (PrairieMom)..
I don't think he's a hero by any sorts, and he very well may be a coward. But I'm not him, I don't know his situation at all as all I know is what I've read here. Maybe he has a good reason that he's just not sharing.
Maybe I just like to think people are genuinely good.. LOL. Either way, I dunno where I stand here.
Hillbilly Housewife replied:
I hear you Nicole.... I get the feeling I offende dyou though, that wasn't intended, I apologize.
i'm just sick of the whole situation (iraq) and wish it would just stop.
jcc64 replied: [/QUOTE]Different war in the movie of course, but I'm thinking about those guys on D-day...what if they said "no, I don't want to be dropped off on the beach...let me go on a different assignment"[QUOTE]
I hear what you're saying, Rae, but I don't think it's a fair comparison. The reasons we went to war during WW2 were very very different than the "reasons" we went to war in Iraq. I understand the culture of the military, I understand the necessity for absolute compliance and respect for the chain of command. However, I also understand the voices of dissent. This war was instigated based on half truths (to be kind), fabrications, manipulation of intelligence, the insatiable greed of the military industrial complex, a son's revenge on behalf of his father, and on and on. To ask a man to not only lay his own life on the line but to kill countless others for something he doesn't believe in is in some circumstances too much to ask. Yes, he signed a contract, but the terms changed significantly along the way. He is certainly not alone in his feelings of "bait and switch".
I don't believe he's a hero, and I certainly don't think the anti war movement should embrace him as such. He should face jail time, as dictated by the terms of his contract. But I do believe he's a man trying to follow his conscience in a very bad situation. This is what happens when rich men in suits play games with other people's lives. To me, sometimes war is inevitable and justifiable, but this is not one of those times.
coasterqueen replied:
You know, every military person I've encountered has never questioned why we have gone to war or what is being done. When they signed up they knew the consequences, they knew they could be going to war, they never pondered the question "what if we go to war for the wrong reason" - they did it because they believe in their country. So I honestly believe this man IS a coward in every sense of the word.
I have two cousins who have gone over there twice now and will more than likely go back. Both signed up after 9/11 and their reasons where they believed in their country and wanted to help. Both of them have VERY differing views than I do about politics, but I'm glad there is one thing we do agree on.
jem0622 replied: My issue is that he signed himself up, and then he is changing his mind. He is no hero. He is a coward. JMHO.
mysweetpeasWil&Wes replied:
Yes, I suppose you're right, not a fair comparison. Different war, like I said...and I certainly don't know enough about the two to make a fair comparison. But I was really just babbling about my simple conversation with DH and not "trying" to compare the two, kwim? Sorry if it seemed that way.
I hear what you're saying, but I still believe that when you volunteer, you should go. Simple as that. Again, different war, but my dad was in Vietnam (drafted of course) and he went, did his JOB and luckily came home...my FIL who grew up in Holland dodged the draft in his country (all Dutch boys are supposed to enlist in the military I think at age 18, for two years). I personally am a bit "dissapointed" (for lack of a better word) that my FIL did this, but I am proud that my father did what he did. So again, sorry to use a completely different situation as an example, but I suppose my point is that we as Americans have somewhat of a moral obligation when it comes to joining the military. It's all about following through with your promise. JMHO.
C&K*s Mommie replied: I am not easily offended and no offense was taken. 
ZandersMama replied: Please dont flame me, this probably wont be a popular opinion, but I think the world would be a better place if more refused to fight over there. I understand that he joined and that was his decision and he knew what he was getting into. But, possibly, he didnt realize the full extent of what was going on over there. There is so much controversy over this war, I wouldnt call him a hero, but in no way a coward.
Cece00 replied:
Coward. And an idiot.
If you do not want to run the risk of dying due to your job in the military, you DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY. He ran the risk of going to war at ANY TIME or being deployed somewhere that he couldve been hurt or killed. If you dont want to have to kill people because its your job as being part of the military, you AGAIN do not join the military.
Simple.
Not to mention I'm sure he's reinlisted somewhere along the lines which was his choice to do.
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