OMG, there will definitely be voter fraud - Ohio

MommyToAshley wrote: A federal judge in Ohio has ruled that counties must allow homeless voters to list park benches and other locations that aren’t buildings as their addresses. They also don't have to present any sort of ID.

I can understand that every citizen should be allowed to vote. But, there has to be some accountability. Everyone should have to carry some sort of I.D. (if they can't afford to pay the registration fees, the state should pay for it), and the homeless should have to register at a shelter or some physical place. What's to keep any average Joe from walking into several different polling places and saying he sleeps on a park bench? This is insane!

There are so many ways to fraud the election system now, does it really matter if we vote? And, Ohio is one of the important swing states.

my2monkeyboys replied: I know how you feel. I don't want to take the right of voting away from anyone who legally has it, but there has to be some rules that will make sure fraud doesn't occur.
With those that are homeless I'm not sure exactly what the best solution would be, but something should be done to protect everyone.

jcc64 replied:

Yes I'm always concerned about voting problems, which have been well-documented in your home state, Dee Dee. Many people believe the 2004 presidential vote was stolen in Ohio. I'm sure you can google it and find out what I'm referring to.
In many poor, mainly minority areas, there is a long history of harassment, impediments, and deliberate acts of sabotage in an effort to discourage people from casting their votes, which traditionally skew Democratic. Things like party operatives showing up outside polling places with clipboards, redirecting or confusing voters, telling them their paperwork is inadequate when it isn't, requiring picture drivers' licenses when many poor people don't own cars, throwing out votes on minor technicalities like having one document with "James" and another with "Jim".
I think the system needs to be tightened up and well-regulated, b/c A LOT of people, myself included, do not trust it. Aren't you all sick of hearing about Bush stealing the election in 2000? If we want to hold ourselves up as a beacon of freedom to say, oh I don't know, Iraq, for example, we better clean house. It's not rocket science.

MommyToAshley replied: I agree that there is a history of fraud, not just in Ohio but all over the country. There is just more of a focus on states like Ohio, Florida, and other states that tend to be the swing states. I just think this is one MORE step in the wrong direction. As I said, EVERYONE should be permitted to vote, but there has to be some way to track who is voting. I also don't agree with the previous Ohio ruling that once a vote has been cast, it can not be contested. WTH? If we find out about fraud, those votes still count?

This is one thing we agree on, after the last presidential election, you would have thought that there would have been some reform on the voting process. It's only gotten worse!

mammag replied: There is aredy voter fraud going on thanks to organizations like Acorn. This is ridiculous to me. They can get a state id can't they? Otherwise it would be so easy for anyone to go in numerous voting sites and say they are homeless and want to vote. If I show up at my voting location they will turn me away without proper id so how is that fair?

The whole early voting thing, especially with being able to register and vote the same day was just asking for fraud and that is what we are getting.

lisar replied: omg I cant believe a judge is allowing that. Next election VOTE his butt out of office. Here in Florida they have already caught people doing it. It doesnt suprise me.

punkeemunkee'smom replied: I was going to bring up Acorn too...what a debacle that all is. They already know for sure that at least 39% of the voters they registered in Houston alone are ineligible to vote...a VAST majority of them because they are DEAD!!!!!

jcc64 replied: Look, there are accusations of voter fraud coming from both sides- the paranoia has been going on since the 2000 election, and as far as I can see, very little has been done. Google current voter suppression accusations in New Mexico and Florida. I can't comment with any intelligence on Acorn because I know next to nothing about them or the people who are criticizing them, for that matter. But if you're homeless, I don't think it would be "no big deal" to get an ID card. For one thing, most people can't just hop in their car and cruise down to the local voting office with all of their "paperwork"- b/c most of them don't have cars or money. Also, idk how it works in other states, but if you don't have originals of this form or that form, you will be turned away. My ds couldn't get a learner's permit b/c we only had a copy of his original birth certificate, despite the fact that I had a pile of other documents. Red tape is a pita, even if you're not homeless. I doubt homeless people have the opportunity to keep scrupulous records of their necessary legal documents, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be aloud to vote. I don't know what the solution is, but there should be a fair and practical one, imo.
And in the end, how many homeless people are we talking about, anyway?? Are homeless people a well-organized, politically active group as a whole? I think most of them are worried about where their next meal or drink is coming from, or how to stay warm. I can't discount that some homeless person somewhere in Ohio wasn't approached by some overzealous political group, but it's nice to know someone cares about protecting their rights, b/c nobody else really does.

A&A'smommy replied: ohhh what a mess!!

MommyToAshley replied:
I'm not worried about the true homeless people.. I'm glad they are voting, they should have a voice. I'm worried about the 39% of the voters in Abbey's state that were once dead but are now going to be homeless and living at a park bench so the can get another 39% of the vote.

redchief replied: The partisan opinions here are easy to figure out.

Most people that vote Republican are already registered to vote, and therefore you don't see big election year pushes to sign up new Republican voters. Citizens who are disenfranchised are the people that you will find unregistered typically. Those people can almost certainly be counted on to vote Dem. Enter canvassers such as ACORN, which has long ties to Barack Obama. One piece of misinformation though that should be cleared up is this - ACORN isn't truly committing voter fraud as a firm. Their employees are temps, often less than savory, paid at minimum wage with instructions to sign up a certain amount of new voters. The filled out papers count whether they're legitimate or not, and therein the problem lies. It's easier and takes much less work to invent names, or use the names from the obituary columns, to make the quotas than it is to actually go out and sign up voters. If ACORN is guilty of anything, it's guilty of not supervising it's operation well.

In what country did this occur? I don't recall it. I worked as a challenger in a presidential election many moons ago, and it's true that challengers often ask people to show proof of their identity. In the last election, my best friend, who was voting Republican by the way, was challenged for his home address which had changed since the previous election and the information never got into the voter record. He had to submit an appeal with a sealed ballot to be counted after his appeal was heard. He never heard whether or not his vote was counted and the county election board never contacted him.

An election is no easy task, especially with such a polarized society. I feel for the folks that have to do all in their power to ensure a fair election. It isn't rocket science, but it certainly isn't simple either.

AlexsPajamaMama replied: Are the homeless people educated on who they are voting for? I guess they can read the newspaper...but how much info do they have on the candidates? Do they see tv or internet to get facts and make an educated decision before they vote?

MommyToAshley replied: For me, it has nothing to do with partisan lines and who will vote democratic and who will vote republican. I think everyone SHOULD vote, everyone should have their voice heard regardless of who you vote for. But, this ruling allows for no way to track people. I doubt that many homeless will go to vote, but I can almost guarantee there will be many posing as homeless since there is no way to track them or hold them accountable.

I forgot to add, this may not affect this election much unless there was an anticipation of this ruling as you must be pre-registered in order to vote.

Crystalina replied: Voter fraud occurs EVERYWHERE. The sad thing is even in nursing homes. Nobody ever really thinks about that but most of the people there are still registered to vote. Most of them do not but a nurse or activity person will still take them, roll them or come to them to get their vote. I've seen people "vote" while never even being woken to do so. I've seen Alzhiemers patients vote and they have no idea what their being asked to do.

AlexsPajamaMama replied:
This is the issue I have. Yes everyone should vote, but dont vote just because you can. A real true honest educated vote is more important than saying yes I voted.

jcc64 replied:

In Florida. I'll dig up a link. It's not from some radical fringe blog, Ed. I've seen and heard these stories many times- on shows like 60 Minutes. I'll poke around and find a legitimate source, fwiw.
In the meanwhile check this out:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/31/us/polit...ssyahoo&emc=rss

redchief replied:
Provisional ballots are indeed problematic for the country since there's no standard to go along with the requirement that they be granted. The states are left to create the rules even in general elections which have national consequences. The new congress should develop a fair and universal set of rules for provisional balloting applicable to all states.

I couldn't find any hard evidence of purposeful voter suppression anywhere but on the crybaby websites (both left and right leaning). I know people who work on election boards in four counties in NJ and all of them are very concerned with running a fair election, regardless of which party has a majority constituency. I know that voter fraud happens in this country, and every instance of it should be prosecuted and rules adopted to prevent recurrence. I can't imagine an election board anywhere sitting idly by while voters are purposefully misinformed.

Crystalina replied:
The point I was trying to make (and apparently didn't ) is that these people were not voting. The people "assisting" them were putting in their own votes.

jcc64 replied: This from the 2004 election- in the NY Times- hardly a “fringe” organization, though I know there are people out there who feel it is:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...75BC0A9629C8B63

This is what I was talking about in Florida with the “No match, no vote” thing, which will affect this year's election:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/0...ons2008.florida

redchief replied:
Let me get this straight. Of the 10,740,000 voters in FL and 537,000 new voters registered, 5,324 challenged registrations were unresolved as of October 1? That's less than 1% of the new registrants, and hardly seems like mass voter suppression to me. My guess is that most of the remaining challenges have been cleared up in one way or another.

The first editorial is simply absurd. It's a whiner looking for a reason to whine. It would appear that the Florida State Police are investigating alleged voter fraud in a single Orlando district that happens to be an African-American neighborhood. The whiner makes certain that his readers are well aware that state police officers in FL are armed, and some work in plain clothes. Hmmm... how odd. He also makes great play about the FL state police being less than forthcoming with details regarding their investigation. Wow, an investigation with no arrests that lacks details. We never see police work like that anywhere else.

I'm sorry. I don't see any smoking guns or voter suppression evident in either story.

jcc64 replied:

Like they were in 2000?? Because if they were so adept at handling voting anomalies in Florida, the presidency wouldn't have had to be decided by the Supreme Court.