Need Advice... am I being unreasonable?? - about father-in-law

Maddy'sMommy wrote: So first I think I need to give you a little back ground. My fil is not a good person in general. He has done unspeakable things to my husband, continualy disrepecting me and hurting my feelings, even his wife has had major issues with him... they are on again off again all the time, he is judgemental of everyone, he cheats peoples, and the list goes on and on. In general this guy is just not a good person, yet he is my fil. We have never gotten along, b/c he is mean to me. I am a pretty laid back person and to tell you the truth have never had anyone dislike me... that I know of. I am easy to get along with. Anyways... Satuday we went to my husbands cousin's baby's 1st Birthday. Well my husbands family are drinkers.... so there was drinking going on... esspecially by my fil. I in my 5 years of knowing him have never seen him drink anything besides beer or wine exspect at my daughters party because we did not serve alcohol. Anyways... as the party is going on he makes small comments all the time that are annoying and rude... like "I wonder where Maddy gets her appetite from?" (meaning me... this guy is esspecially judgemental to anyone slightly overweight) ...etc. Well then he passes out in his car for a hour or so... wakes up and throws ice on me for no apparent reason. Well I finally had enough... I have been quiet all this time.... for 5 years... and I finally said " You really are an asshole" and walked out with my dd.

Well when me and my husband left the party, we got in an agruement b/c I want him to stand up for me and stand beside me. He says he will.... everything is fine with me and my husband. Well as of today he has not talked to his dad. He thinks I am unresonable b/c I want an apology... and for us to start over. I will forget everything and we can start fresh. I also want No drinking around us anymore. Well my husband says (although he has not talked to him yet) that he will not apologize... he is too stubborn. I said no apology no seeing or talking to us. On a side not... he lives in CLeveland and his wife or soon to be ex-wife lives here in fl so it would not affect our relaionship with her too much. I don't think apologizing is unreasonable. I know he will apologize he cares about his son and granddaughter and if he doesn't he will be the one miserable for ruining his relationship with them. ANyways am I being unreasonable? Thanks for reading... I needed to get this off my chest. This whole situation has my stomach in knots. Thanks for your responses. I just need to know if I am wrong in some way.

mom2my2cuties replied: Nope - I would have done something a lot sooner. That guy needs to learn some serious self control and consideration for other's feelings.

amynicole21 replied: Ugh! He sounds like a nightmare. The only thing I would caution you on is that YOU are the one who is angry with him, not your daughter. I would avoid using his visitation of her as a punishment. I really hope you get your apology

cameragirl21 replied: personally, I'm not big on forcing someone to apologize because if you have to force them then they're not truly sorry and are just saying it to get it over with.
What I would say to him (with your DH at your side so he has to be on board) is that if this behavior continues he will not be welcome in your home and will not see any of you, including his grandchild.
So if he wants to see his grandchild and be a part of her life, he'll have to control his behavior at least while he's around your family.
And then leave that choice up to him.

CantWait replied: Well the circumstance IMHO behind this paticular argument seems a little minimal. Comments will always be made and it's how we handle them that makes us, as for the ice, it could have been all in fun. I guess it would depend on how much etc. My dh and I have a corky side, and when he plays around with me it's usually something that's going to hurt.....

There are some things that I don't expect an apoligy for, especially when it comes from my mom, brother etc..it's just the way things are, they're always going to say something that pisses me off. I just think of how much they love my kids. By holding grandkids back, you're not only punishing him, but your own children as well.

Maddy'sMommy replied: cameragirl I agree... that is why I say to start fresh.... forget it happened.

amynicole...I only say he shouldn't see all of us because him disrepecting me ... is the same as disrespecting my family. Me and my family are one unit.... its all of us or none of us. But I do see your point.. thank you.

mom2my2cuties replied: Amy - I agree with you to an extent - but she really does have to look out for what is best for Maddy and protect her from behaviors she doesn't want her to learn. And sometimes this means staying away from people who encourage bad behaviors.


We had to do something similar with my Father In Law. His step son was about 6 and kept punching Andrea and when they wouldn't do anything about it - we did. And over there she was also exposed to MANY behaviors that were things we didn't want her to think were ok. It was months before they saw Andrea again. Because we had to protect her from getting confused about rules. (At that time she was only 1 - so the hitting was my biggest concern)

I think from the way it sounds in the original post - he has some some pretty rotten things in the direction of Maddy in regards to her appetite. And no matter your age - things like that shatter your self esteem and make you overly self concious.


Also - I wouldn't allow him around my children for the simple fact that he drinks non stop. That is a behavior I have always believed is nothing but destructive. Drinking a glass of wine or a margarita or whatever here and there is one thing. But a lifestyle of drinking and passing out because of it - you will NOT be around my child like that.

skinkybaby replied: Normally I would say not to use your child as punishment since it's not fair to her. But this guy sounds verbally abusive. If thats the case I wouldn't blame you in the least for not wanting your child around her.
Your husband needs to make it clear that it is unacceptable for him to treat you that way. Its his father, he needs to be the one to set boundaries.

Maddy'sMommy replied: can'twait... I understand what you are saying but you do not know the extent of this man behavior. I will give you the worst thing he has done... that makes me cry everytime I think of it. It was not to me but my husband... he was 17 and lived with his g-mother b/c of his dad. Well his g-ma passed in her sleep and the ambulance get there but can not take the body away until an adult releases the body. His dad had to finish his golf game and left his son.... his own son... with his dead g-ma body for 4 hours. Whe I think of this .... i feel I am not punishing my dd... I am protecting her... if he can do that to his own son.... what could he do to his granddaugther.

cameragirl21 replied: I personally think you've given this guy more chances than he deserves. I'd give him one last chance to shape up or lose contact with your family.
Anyone who leave his son with a dead body to finish a golf game is just a freak, and that's putting it nicely.

Cece00 replied:
I agree with this.

Forcing an apology on someone doesnt work. I should know. My MIL is a real piece of work and she's gone above & beyond being insulting & annoying & downright rude to not only me, but my husband, and our children. We had gotten to the point that we did not speak to her. DH wanted to see her occasionally (which, I readily admit, I do not understand. She has been a crappy parent to him for his whole life...) and so we saw her briefly when our son was born (twice, actually, for about 30 min each time...) and she keeps asking to come around. My Dh told her we needed to have a discussion about some incidents between us, all her fault, and that she needed to apologize to me for something she did.

So this week she sends me this letter with just about the fakest apology ever. Not to mention that DH had to tell her to do it...it meant NOTHING to me. I do not feel she is sorry, and I am sure she actually is NOT sorry, but said something so we would have something to do with her...

So it did her no good to apologize, as she isnt sorry and most likely will continue to do what offends us, and it did ME no good, as I could never see her again and that would be fine, and it will do DH no good, as she will continue to be who she is, and I still am not satisfied.

At this point, we will see her VERY rarely, we will keep a distance from her, if she messes up again, she'll be back out of our lives and the lives of our children as well....we need to have a discussion about boundaries and appropriate behavior and where we stand on some situations and then we will leave it up to her to act accordingly.

If not...then she made her choice.

cameragirl21 replied: Cece00, not that you asked for any advice but I think your situation is kind of interesting, not to mention unfortunate for your DH and by extension, you and your kids.
Sounds like your MIL is willing to try to do anything just to stay in your life.
If I were in your place, I'd write her a long letter detailing exactly how you feel, with specifics regarding incidents and things that were said and leading into how you are a mom now and you have to be responsible for your children's safety/future, etc and firmly and calmly state your expectations of her if she is to stay in your lives.
From what I've noticed here, you express yourself with a great deal of candor, tact, and thoughtfulness and I think you'd find out based on MIL's response what to expect from her in the future.
Just fyi, that's not to say that anyone else here is a bad communicator or without candor, tact, or thoughtfulness, it's just that her MIL seems to want to make this work, even though she doesn't seem like a bad person and her situation is such that this can be easily resolved by laying out the rules and then seeing what the next person's move is.
Think of it as a chess game and your MIL is one twisted queen....

redchief replied: There are members of my family that your FIL so reminds me of. Here's my advice, knowing the personality type you're up against.

1. He won't apologize. I'd be very surprised if he ever did that.
2. He wont expect there to be a great change in your relationship in the future. He'd be surprised if there was.
3. One thing that IS possible, and it would be up to your DH to do this. He should tell him that you were publicly embarrassed and hurt that he disrespected you by mentioning your appetite and by throwing ice on you. Usually family bullies will find a new target if they're called on their actions.

As far as whether to hold this grudge goes, I advise against it, but you have to follow your own heart.

luvmykids replied: ITA with Ed, people who treat others like that generally lack the amount of respect for others required to make amends....If it were a one time deal where the guy had too many beers, I could over look it. But if this is consistent behavior, which is what it sounds like, he doesn't care enough about himself to care about others, kwim?

I hate having to draw a line in the sand, especially when it comes to kids/grandparents, but I would let your DH deal with him and tell him the "standards" you expect him to maintain in the presence of you guys if he wants to maintain the relationship. I hate to say it but wouldn't be suprised if he said "Oh please, I can't believe she's so upset over that" and you have to be prepared to make good on whatever boundaries you've laid out for him.

I don't blame you a bit. I'm a very forgiving person, probably too forgiving, but I do think you only hurt yourself by holding a grudge. Having said that, it doesn't mean you have to tolerate people who make you or your child feel bad.

Maddy'sMommy replied: Thanks for all of your responses and advice. Here is a little update: My dh talked to him. Apparently he thought me calling him an a-hole was b/c of the ice, but my dh explained that it is everything he has done and said to me over five years... and me finally saying something. My dh told him that next time he is in town which is in 2 weeks that all of us... me, my dh, his mom, and his dad will sit down and figure it all out. I already know a lot of what me and my dh need to tell him. I am going to tell him first off no disrespecting me , dh or dd. No drinking around any of us, No parenting advice or comments unless asked. I am going to tell him to respect our family. I told my dh that it could get ugly if he questions why I called him an a-hole, b/c I am sure I will go off with the reasons many of which no one has ever called him on and I am sure would hurt his feelings, but you know what... someone should have called him on all this a long time ago.

A couple of months ago he was making fun of my dh's cousins wife ... and saying how big she is. Well i went off on him then too and told him that he has to make fun of people to make himself feel better, etc. Anyways.... that incident was not nearly as bad... but it just seems like noone has the guts to say anything to him but me. I mean that girl he was picking on, is my friend and is very sweet. It just makes me so mad. He made fun of me when I was 130lbs... not overweight at all. He just likes to hurt other people. Again thanks!

holley79 replied: Nope not unreasonable at all. Also DH needs to stand by your "new rules'.

Cece00 replied:
Honestly, I dont believe she REALLY wants it to work, its a great deal about control for her. Also for "bragging rights", so she can act like she is this great parent & grandparent & that could not be farther from the truth, but of course she likes to tell people that.

I've learned to just let what she does go, as much as I can. I realize its just who she is. She has never been a stable person, she never has been concerned with the well-being of her family, she will always put herself and her wants first, no matter the damage is does to anyone else. She doesnt respect boundaries in the LEAST. I believe she even "gets off" on causing drama with her actions. She also has a bit of a drug issue, and most definetly some mental defects, which is why we will never leave our children alone with her.

But, its fine, to an extent. I still get angry about it, but I know I can not control her and that she is unlikely to change. A big conversation (or a letter, also a good idea...thanks!) is coming, where we plan to lay it ALL out for her. Then she will get to choose from there.

The good thing is that I've made it clear to DH that things are now on MY/OUR terms, instead of on hers (I spent a great deal of time trying to please her when we first married, up until about August of 2005, a waste of time to say the least) and that if I feel like opting out of being in her presence, I will do so. I wont stop HIM from having a relationship with her, if that is what he really wants, but I will control how much time I spend around her, and I will control the amt of contact she will have with my children, because I believe her to be a bad influence. Her actions from about Aug 2005-Aug 2006 almost cause us to cut her off completely, and actually we did for awhile. DH has this need to try and have a relationship with her, which I've said, I completely do not understand, but respect at this time, because I respect HIM. My mother is an angel who would never treat me, my husband, or my children even remotely bad, so I guess because I did not grow up with a dysfunctional mother who tries her hardest at times to hurt me or screw with my life, I do not understand his need for a relationship with her. But I do know that if, after we've cleared the air, she continues her bad behavior, DH is likely to cut her off forever.

So I guess for his sake, she watches herself & her actions.

Sorry for hijacking this thread.