My turn to vent :( - BF, Sleep, im at a loss

KatieLeigh79 wrote: Well DH told me when J.R. was first born he wanted me to nurse at least the first year - which I fought tooth and nail because I didn't want to at all - needless to say from past posts, many problems and over 3000 in consultants im still at it - but as of 6 months (hes now 8 months) he wanted me to wean him?! Said he thinks he had enough boobie - John had always taken a bottle 1x a day with EBM so that I could keep the option of a once in a while sitter open but after trying it that day in the morning instead of at night like we had done for 6 months he freaked and will not take a sippy cup, bottle or anything unless its attached and under my shirt. We have tried 17 different bottles now, nipples and yes even the "boob" bottle which he just threw acrossed the room - im at such a loss, he and his mom both think i need to just starve the poor boy until he eats from a bottle?!? There was a woman I talked to once that did that and her son went 48 hours without anything, to me it sounds like child abuse but hes now mind set on wanting this to be over... Whenever his mom calls here her first question is "he take a bottle yet?" I guess seeing i've made it this far why cant I let him decide when HE wants to be done, I know im the parent but I just can't stand seeing his little body shake and him cry when he gets really upset. Im the one that has to deal with him biting until I bleed and the not being able to leave his side ever anymore but people just make me so mad... They all want to give me advice on what I should do but no one has offered to come take him over for a month which is what im about ready to tell them to do if its felt I do it so wrong. The other problem we are having is with sleep - I lay him down still 2x a day, sometimes he sleeps other times he lays in bed and plays for a half hour and then I get him back up.. I just want to keep him on the idea that he needs to be "in bed" but now thats not good enough anymore either DH thinks he needs 3+ hours of sleep a day still but hes to the point now he sleeps decent at night, (with the occasional bad night) and never even really cries when its time to get up he will normally just lay there and kick at things until I go in at 6 am to get him... What am I doing so wrong :'(? Do I really have no idea how to raise him right - hes at 18lbs 7 ounces at 8 months so I know im still giving him what he needs in BM (at least i think so) and he doesnt seem to be so over tired he cant stay awake... I don't want to starve him, and i dont want to be the one that has to listen to him cry 3 hours a day from bed if he doesnt want to be asleep..... any ideas?

...sorry this is so long and rambling.... its just been really on my mind nowdays because that is the only conversation we even seem to have in this household nowdays.

jen replied: (((((((((((HUGS)))))))))) I'm so sorry that you are going through that. I really don't have advice for you as an experienced mother because I haven't even had my baby yet! LOL! HOWEVER I can tell you that I have had problems with the unsolicated advice ALREADY and I know it is going to get worse! I would first off make sure your MIL knows her boundaries and that you are FULLY capable of raising your son. I would give him what YOU think he needs. I agree with you that it is pretty close to abuse to starve him until he gives in to a bottle, it is natural for him to want to breast feed. You have the instincts specially formulated for YOUR baby, no one else can tell you what to do. As for your DH, maybe tell him that you want to keep it simple and give your baby want he needs and trust in your own instincts. I don't think there is a majic formula for sleep or feeding or weaning to a bottle. I would trust in yourself, you will know what is right.

~CrazieMama~ replied: I am so sorry you have been going through this. Many hugs to you

DansMom replied: I can't tell where your DH is coming from---is he having his own ideas that are changing, or is he being strongly influenced by his mom's opinion right now? From your description you've got a healthy, happy and well-adjusted baby who is thriving! I would only change things if it's not working for you and/or for the baby. If you are now committed to BF, it's good for the baby to go as long as he/she wants and you want. Daniel's demand did not go down until about 10 or 11 months. He still BFs about 4 times a day at 14 months. At some point one of us will decide we've had enough. We've only done one nap during the day for the longest time---about 2 hours average. Daniel would be up until 1 am if we gave him more sleep during the day. I think every baby's needs are different. Hugs to you!

amynicole21 replied: Hugs to you! You are in a difficult position. First off, your MIL doesn't have the right to tell you how to raise your son. One issue solved. DH is a different story, but like Dansmom said, I think he may be being influenced by his mother rather than by what is best for his child. What is his reasoning for wanting JR to wean and take a bottle so badly? He'll still need to drink bmilk or formula for another 4 months AT LEAST, so why quit now? Just seems odd to me. In my opinion, there is no reason to torture a baby by withholding food unless there is no other option. Yes, he probably will break down at some point and take a bottle, but at what cost? When my dd went to daycare at 9weeks, she still wasn't taking a bottle (after 17 trial nipples/bottles and the boob bottle!!) and we did have to make her starve until I could get to her at lunchtime to nurse her, and again until I could pick her up at the end of the day. Eventually she took bottles, but it was a HORRIBLE couple of weeks. I do not recommend it. In this area, I think you are the one who needs to make the call... not DH. Just my though.

As for the naps, baby's tell you how much sleep they need. If he is not terribly fussy by the end of the day, he probably doesn't need the 2nd nap. That's great that he'll play by himself in the crib for 30min, though!

Good luck... it's a tough one.

jem0622 replied: ITA agree with the others and just want to offer you hugs. You are the Mom here. Remember that. And you know what your comfort level is with making decisions and parenting. We have to parent our kids. If you don't agree with the advice of others just say 'thank you' for the advice and don't tell them what you intend to do. I would not encourage you to wean at all. I'm sorry that he won't take a bottle. He is 8 mos...have you tried offering a sippy cup of something other than breastmilk? Water? Diluted juice? Just a thought to tide him over. He may like that versus EBM out of a bottle. And that is OKAY.

HUGS
Julie

kimberley replied: i am sorry you have to go through this. you have clearly said what DH and his mother want, but what is really important is what you want and what baby needs. after overcoming all the difficulty of bf'ing i can't understand why anyone would want you to stop now when it is the best thing for baby and he obviously isn't ready to wean. as for naps, each of my 3 kids were different. Jacob rarely napped ever. James had his 2 scheduled naps and Jade is on and off with her napping.

i strongly believe that babies don't cry unless they need something... love, stimulation, food or a clean diaper. it sounds to me that you are doing everything right and JR is thriving. stand up for what you believe is right. we are here if you need support.

A&A'smommy replied: im sorry your going through this right now!! I dont have any advice for you because i havent been there but i do have encouragement and hugs for you. I think your doing a great job!!!! (((BIG HUGS)))

Schnoogly replied: Yeah I do know what you're going through in the nap department. Not all babies need 3 hours of naps a day. If he's sleeping well at night he might not need many naps, especially if he is actually playing in his crib. That sounds great! I wish Iain would have done that, even if he didn't sleep.

Have you tried sippy cups? He is what, 7 months? That's old enough for a sippy. I know lots of BFed babies who never take bottles but will take a sippy for ebm and water and stuff. What you need is a break, a babysitter, something! Not stopping BFing. That is just going to cause tummy upset, cost a lot of money in formula, and cause lots of suffering for all involved, esp. JR.

Babies do know what they need and the "high need" ones really tell you what it is. So he isn't ready for a bottle, and he definitely isn't going to take it from you. You just need to hang in there for a few more months and it will begin to get better--he'll be eating a lot more solids and needing to BF less. Try the sippy though, if you haven't!

MommyToAshley replied: (((HGUS)))

It sounds to me like you are doing everything perfectly... he is sleeping well at night, he is happy and feels secure enough to play on his own, and he is growing and thriving. Why change anything?

As for the MIL, ITA with the others, she doesn't have a say in how you raise your child ... unless of course you ask her for advice. So, I would either just ignore her and not let her get to you or I would tell her how you feel about her unsolicited advice. Maybe then your DH will change his tune too.

(((HGUS)))

CantWait replied: I'm so sorry you're going through this. I don't really have any advice (sorry ). I just wanted to say that it's your decision and your body altimately. If you wanna quit bf then it's your decision, if not don't let anyone pressure you into it.

As for his sleep, Anthony doesn't sleep anywhere near 3 hours during the day, and it sounds like dad is just copping out for not wanting to take care of his baby. Sorry to sound so harsh. Why mess with a good thing??? If JR is sleeping good at night, I wouldn't mess with his routine, it's just going to be you paying the price, not your dh by the sounds of it, OR his mom. You're doing the best you can, keep up the great mommy work

jcc64 replied: I once read in one of T. Berry Brazelton's books that the baby always knows exactly what he needs, it is our job as parents to figure out his cues. It sounds like you have done just that. The problems always seem to arise when well intentioned but misguided people try to force a baby into some external artificial time schedule. I don't know why your dh or mil have decided NOW must be the time to enforce all these changes, but they are completely arbitrary and have nothing to do with what is best for you and your baby right now. In these situations, I always arm myself with evidence from the "experts" (Kellysmom is always a great site), although in the end, the best expert is always you. Good luck, and don't give up.

coasterqueen replied: You've already got great advice, so I will just give you GREAT BIG HUGS!!!


BTW, T. Brazelton makes me cringe! Ewww. He gets discussed on a BF board I frequent as someone to NEVER listen to,

jcc64 replied: [QUOTE]TW, T. Brazelton makes me cringe! Ewww. He gets discussed on a BF board I frequent as someone to NEVER listen to,

Really?! Why is that? I don't particularly enjoy LOOKING at him, but I've always found his advice to be right on the money. I'd be very curious to know what it is about him you don't like. I promise not to turn this into a big debate, I'm just really curious.

coasterqueen replied: Oh no problem, I guess my comment kinda left things open for debate Not my intentions, honestly, lol.

And what I'm about to say, I don't want to cause debate, especially for those who use formula or BF. So I just want to say that up front for anyone who reads this.

He's been on numerous talk shows etc downplaying the importance of Bf and how it is just like formula, which I do not agree with. There are many things that irk me about this guy like his suggestions that you should give 2 year old vitamins if they don't like veggies, just don't offer them veggies anymore. It's my understanding years ago he advocated that it's ok for children to be in diapers til age 4 or 5, but basically because he was "sort of" a rep for Pampers. Not that it's not ok if a child is still in diapers there but his main drive is money in pocket from Pampers! He states how pumping is just too difficult for working moms so just give formula. I could go on.

To be honest I didn't know a lot about him until recently when he was talked about on a BF board I frequent. So I decided to research him further and I just don't believe a lot of what he says and I think he is definately uneducated on BF, or maybe that's just the tad bit of attachment parenting making me think that way of him.

jcc64 replied: Wow Karen, that's pretty interesting info. If you are at all familiar with my posts, you know I am very AP.
Most of my experience with him was formed some 11 yrs ago when I was a "new" mom. I read a lot of parenting books at that time, and his advice always seemed to work the best for us. Admittedly, I have not read anything he's written recently, nor do I watch a lot of TV, so it's possible his message has changed over time.
I always understood him to be very pro BF. But I do recall that he made an effort to assuage the guilt of some mothers who either couldn't or weren't successful with BF. I believe his message was that BF was obviously the best choice, but that if you weren't able to make that choice for whatever reason, not to beat yourself up about it. I think he was trying to alleviate the pain many women feel when they fail at BF.
Similarly, about the vitamin thing. I do remember that discussion, b/c I think of it often with my ongoing feeding struggles with Corey. I believe his intentions were to get parents to understand that toddlers actually need very little food to remain healthy. That it is virtually impossible to get some kids to eat a "balanced" diet, and to continually pursue that with a picky eater is probably more damaging in the long road to healthy eating habits. I don't think he was suggesting that vitamins are a BETTER alernative to actual food, just a solution for those that refuse to eat their veggies.
And finally, about the pampers. I agree that being a paid spokesman appears to be a conflict of interest. But the "no pressure to toilet train" theory is very consistent with his overall philosophy of child led learning. IMO though, the idea of changing diapers till the age of 4 or 5 is very unappealing!
Anyway, sorry to ramble.

KatieLeigh79 replied: Thanks for all the encouragement, have tried a sippy cup the past 2 months now, he still thinks its a "toy" and either sits and tries to peel the lid off or throws it and watching is bounce acrossed the floor and laughs... im thinking he will let me know when he's ready to try again with everything I just can't keep putting him through the tears and the fear when I try and give him something he doesn't want and I know he won't get anything out of anyhow... He will eat some jar food, normally not more then a jar a day but I guess as long as his diapers are fine and he's happy any other time I will just let it be at that and he will say when he's ready - granted it would be nice to go out once in a while *lol* so how selfish does that sound.

Schnoogly replied: It's not selfish at all! You've been through a lot--raising a high needs baby is REALLY HARD WORK! You deserve a break and I think you should do whatever you can to get it. Even if it's going in another room while DH or MIL babysits and putting on headphones so you can't hear the ruckus.