Moment of serious parental doubt - looking for advice

jcc64 wrote: Usually, my parental insecurities are attached to my dealings with my 16 yo, but this time it's Corey. She's 6, as most of you already know, and I'm struggling with an emerging neurotic feature of her personality. It's manifested in different ways, but this time, it's tied into her gymnastics team. This may sound like an obnoxious mommy brag, but it's germaine to the story: by all accounts, she shows a preternatural talent--she can throw multiple back handsprings, a front handspring, etc...the coaches are perpetually gushing about her natural talent. The problem is, she has some pretty serious performance anxiety. Several times now, when it's her turn to do her routine by herself in practice, she freezes and won't go out on the floor. If she can't muster up the courage to do it in practice, how the heck is she going to do it at a meet next month, with dozens of strangers and judges watching? In the end, I could care less if she EVER competes in a meet, except that I know this is not really about gymnastics, it's about her fear of failure or something along those lines. I don't want her to get into the habit of bailing out when she gets nervous, which is what I'm starting to see. At school, when she's faced with a difficult problem, she kind of plays dumb rather than having to struggle through something that's a little tough for her. So, what do I do? I lost my patience with her tonight, because we've already had a few discussions about this behavior, and yet it surfaced again. Both the coaches and I have repeatedly told her we don't care how many mistakes she makes, as long as she gets out there and gives it her best. I'm thinking if the only thing that propels her through this is her fear of disappointing me, I'll use it to help her get to the other side so she can experience the satisfaction of facing down her fears. Is this expecting too much? I don't want to reinforce negative behavior, but neither do I want to traumatize her. Wahhhhhhhh, help me!

luvmykids replied: Oh gosh, that one is tough! Colt does the "play dumb" thing and it drives me NUTS but it's usually easy to deal with because I KNOW he is playing dumb. If it showed up more as a true fear or anxiety I don't know what I'd do, I see the double edged sword of not wanting to allow her to get away with it but at the same time, recognizing it as a true fear (or whatever the technical term is).

I'm assuming you've tried talking to her about it, what does she say? Is she afraid of messing up, hurting herself, etc? Maybe it's extreme, but what if it came down to "Let's take a break from gymnastics until we get this figured out"? Not in the sense she is being punished, but maybe if you can make it clear to her that this is something that has to be dealt with if she wants to pursue gymnastics, or anything really.

I'm just guessing, we've run into mild cases of not wanting to push through something, but not quite like you've got.

jcc64 replied: It's definitely not a fear of hurting herself--she can do all moves in her sleep. I think it's just straight up anxiety, which of course, she's inherited from me. I desperately want to help her through what is essentially an irrational phobia, but there's a limit to how much reasoning you can do with a 6 yr old. I'm saying everything she needs to hear--mistakes are good, effort is all that matters, etc...but I'm thinking all she really wants to hear is that she doesn't have to get out there. Should I let her pull out of the meet? My biggest fear is that we're all gonna get to this meet, she's gonna freak out and have a bad experience, and ruin her genuine love of the sport. Maybe she's ready to compete physically, but not emotionally? Or am I just letting her cop out, which she'll then learn to carry over into other parts of her life where participation is NOT optional, like school.

luvmykids replied: I will tell you this, when I was a cheerleader in HS it was mandatory for us to take gymnastics, they wanted everyone to have their back handsprings and tucks for state competition. I could do it every single time in practice, but not on the gym floor. My coach got fed up and screamed at me to do it or I was off the squad so I panicked but went for it, freaked out in the middle of the back handspring and landed on my head (wasn't hurt, just horrified), in the middle of the gym floor, during the half time performance. My point is, I got shoved into it, and my worst fear happened, regardless of the fact I was perfectly capable and had done it countless times, and that was tough to recover from. As goofy as a little HS cheerleading flub sounds, for years later anytime I was afraid, I immediately went back to that moment and my first thought was "I was right! I had every reason to be afraid!" I don't use that example for any reason other than I sort of identify

IMHO, at six, you have time to give her some time to sort it out without it affecting her drastically in the long run....I can see that for a six year old, even with such a talent and passion, it could feel like an awful lot of pressure and there is still plenty of time to teach her about working through her fears. Personally, I'd rather err on the side of caution while you feel it out a little more. I think you can safely do that but stand your ground when it comes to school and not let her off the hook in the non-negotiable areas ...six is a tough age to reason with but they also know where the line is drawn.

One of my biggest fears with the kids is pushing when I shouldn't and causing damage, then allowing that fear to cause me to not push when I should and doing damage that way Good luck, I'd be driving myself nuts with this dilemma.

MommyToAshley replied: That's a tough one, and I agree, it's hard to know when to push and when to back off.

When you first described the situation, I thought it might just be stage fright. Ashley gets that. She gets nervous before every recital and her anxiety even showed it's face before her ceremony for girl scouts in which there were only 10 girls and their parents there. She said her tummy was rumbling and her knees felt like jelly... you could even see the fear on her face. I volunteeer in her class and she is really social and outgoing until she has to speak in front of the entire class. (She gets that from me. ) In Kindergarten, we gave her a special rock to hold onto for reassurance, but now she just closes her eyes, takes a deep breath and blows the fear away. Once she is out there, she is fine. So, if it is a similar fear...maybe you can give her a good luck pin or hairpiece, something she can take with her on the gym floor that will give her that little extra reassurance she needs. It may sound silly, but sometimes all they need is some extra reassurance to get them to try. It's sort of like making a monster deflector for kids who think there's a monster in their closet at bedtime.... eventually they learn they don't need it but it helps them get through the situation.

When you talked about school, it reminded me of Ashley before she went to Kindergarten. She was such a perfectionist and afraid to get something wrong that she'd rather not try it than to get it wrong. In that case, I had to keep saying the same things... it's ok to make a mistake, it's important that you try, etc. I just had to be careful how I approached correcting her as she'd just shut down. By the time she got to kindergarten, she was fine with trying new things but she still gets upset if she makes a mistake. Het teacher corrected her handwriting and it was the end of the world.

I am not sure what I would do in your situation. I wouldn't take gymnastis away from her in a recreational sense, but I think I'd take her to a competition and let her decide if she wants to do it or not. Sometimes just having the option on the table that she doesn't have to compete if she doesn't want to will make a difference. I know you'd never force her to compete, but maybe she gets the sense from her teachers that she is expected to compete since she is so advanced and has so much talent.

I'm sorry I am not much help. Things like this are so hard to work through because you never really know how their little minds work.

jcc64 replied: Thank you so much for your kind words and reassurance, Dee Dee and Monica. I do think Ashley and Corey (and you during your cheerleading days, Monica!) sound similar in their quest for perfection-- it will undoubtedly create a fabulous work ethic in the future but their own high standards for themselves are gonna sometimes get in the way of having fun and enjoying what they love to do right now.
I guess I'm just wrestling with what I know to be a troubling feature of her personality that goes much deeper than gymnastics or grades, and I want to help her manage her fears now so I can minimize the impact they may have later on. As with most parenting dilemmas, I don't think there are really any easy answers, but I certainly appreciate your support.

luvbug00 replied: Well from the kids perspective, i remeber doing my dance compitions and standing in the wings of the stage hyperventalating from nurves. my parents tried everything from a note tucked into my costume to after preformance treats as insentive. In my case it wasn't preforming for other people that made me anxious it was the fear of messing up and dissapointing them. Now my parents were in no way shape or form "stage parents" they did thease compitions because i wanted to. In the end i figured out that not having them there reduced my anxiety. SO from then on my mom had to watch on a montior from outside the theater.
There is nothing worse then a fear of dissapointing the rents.

MommyToAshley replied:
I think that is the thing we struggle with is that we want to manage their fears for them when in the end, I think it is something that they will have to work through on their own. It's hard -- especially to know how much to interfere. I surely haven't figured it out yet.

Let us know what you decide and if she goes to the meet, be sure to update us.

coasterqueen replied: Kylie is much like how Dee Dee described Ashley. Kylie fears so much and doing it wrong - I think I've created the perfectionist in her unfortunately. I'm not sure how I would handle it. When Kylie has fears about gymnastics (and she does) I just tell her if you don't want to do it anymore then we finish out the month and you can stop. She usually responds with no, she wants to keep doing it. When Kylie had a lot of fears in baseball, Ryan pushed her through it. He helped her see that her fears were ok and how to handle them. He's so much better with this age than I am.

I tend to feel that pushing them when they fear it is not a good idea. Only because I fear they will then do it because of you, not for them. That only leads to resentment some day. When I've pushed Kylie to do face certain fears she usually comes back to say that she only did it because of me and that's not what I want. I want her to WANT to do it for her. If that means quitting something, even for a little bit, until she decides it's right for her then that is what it means.

Hey, I'm going through this parenting thing for the first time so I really have no clue myself.

Danalana replied: I didn't read the other responses, but it sounds to me like fear of letting you down, as well as her coaches. It's nothing any of you have done wrong. I think it's all the praise she is receiving for being a natural. Maybe she is afraid of "failing" and that you all won't feel the same way anymore.
OR...could it just be the age/phase of her life right now? It could just be a natural shyness/performance anxiety that is making it hard for her to do it in front of people. I experienced the same thing when I was 7 or 8. I was trying out for cheerleader. I could do all the stunts and knew all the cheers. However, when i got in front of the judges (people who I knew would criticize me), I absolutely froze. I did the stunts because I could do them in my sleep too, but I wouldn't open my mouth to do the cheer. I was frozen.
Just some things to consider, and you might have already thought of those.

My2Beauties replied: Jeanne, while I don't have a lot of advice, Hanna isn't at the competitive level of gymnastics yet so I am not sure how she is going to react but I think Hanna is sort of the same way as Corey. She starts taking 2 classes per week next month, one which will still be beginner but the other the coach wants her in intermediate which is a step up and then she'll move up to two intermediate classes or 3rd level next year, so she is really good already at gymnastics, even though she's been in it just a short while. Now my fear, when we had her in t-ball, it didn't come to her as naturally, she wasn't good at hitting he ball, so the coaches worked and worked with her and we all said the same things, do your best, just try, but she completely broke down on the field one day during a live game and cried her eyes out, the coach swung the ball with her and she hit it and ran to first base making her feel better, but it was at that moment that I realized she was also afraid of failure. I'm worried this will come across when she starts to go to meets. I think Corey is old enough to decide herself whether or not she thinks she is ready for the meet. I would by no means push her to do something she doesn't want to do (in this case, school is different), if she wants to sit this one out I'd let her, it's probably a combination of her age and just being that personality type. Either way, I'm sure this will pass and she'll be competing before you know it, but I'd let her make the decisions on this one. Push her harder each time to do it because she does initally need to get over this if she wants to pursue gymnastics/cheerleading in h.s. etc..but at this age I wouldn't push it on her too hard. That's hard for me to say because I'm sort of a "mean" mommy when it comes to things, I'm notorious for suck it up kid...but I think from what you describe this goes far beyond just a little stage fright, you don't want her at the meet vomiting and gasping for air and causing a scene, it would be embarrassing for her. Just let her decide. Hope you get this all figured out, and let me know how it turns out b/c I'm sure I'll be in your shoes in the next couple of years when Hanna begins to compete.

Kaitlin'smom replied: I will admit I did push Kaitlin a little when it came time for her to compete with her cheerleading squad. She was unsure and afriad of making mistakes. I told her its not about how well you do it, its that you do it, give it your best, just go out and have fun. She was nervous but very thankful that I signed her up to do it. She even said thank you mama I had fun and it was not as scary as I thought.

I do totaly understand your delema, where do you push and where dont you push? I struggle with that, she has things she loves but does not always feel like doing it. When I have talked to her about why she does not want to do something mostly its beacuse she is worried about messing up. I tell her just have fun, and try. You know what she sometimes says to me? She will tell me thats right cause practice makes you better. I said thats right, you cant always get it right the first time.

jcc64 replied: I forgot to add part 2 of last night's trauma. It was snowing pretty hard when we left the gym. I had started the car, but had to get out to help Corey with a tangled car seat strap, so I pulled up the emergency brake (it's a 5 speed) While I was in the backseat with her, the car starts rolling, quickly, toward cars on the opposite side of the sloping parking lot. Mind you, there is no one in the driver's seat. I had to jump out of the back, and literally dive, from a slippery, snow-covered surface, back into the driver's seat to pull up the emergency brake. You have no idea what goes through your mind when your car is moving with your child in the back seat, and no one behind the wheel! What a night!

Kaitlin'smom replied:
okay now that is scary!

stella6979 replied:
Oh my gosh, how scary Jeanne! Thankfully, you were able to get it under control without anyone being hurt.

mom21kid2dogs replied: First of all, congrats to Corey on her success in the sport. I think abnormal ability in a sport (or anything) can certainly bring on the anxiety you describe. It's not just letting you down, but also coaches and a team. Enormous pressure for a 6 year old. At ths age, they are not only more self aware, but also aware more of how they factor into a bigger picture. Gifted kids can start feeling very anxious right about this age. I was wondering if you (or your coaches) know of any sports psychcologists in your area? Someone who is skilled in dealing with it can probably provide a really good neutral support for Corey and you. I doubt it would require much more than a few sessions at her age but it might help her gain a different perspective or help you as her more support her in the best possible way.

Part 2 of your drama is honestly my worst nightmare. All our cars are 5 speeds by choice but that scenerio has played in my mind several times. It's a big fear of mine!

DVFlyer replied: You sound like you are very analytical and I wonder if you are over analyzing this.

Why do you want her to get over her fear of performing? (asked in a psychological manner... )

jcc64 replied:
You're right, I am an overly analytical person, but the reason I'm concerned is because I see a pattern emerging, one that I believe will get in the way of enjoying her life and her gifts. It's not about gymnastics, it's about self-esteem and confidence and plowing through fears rather than caving in to them. It's not so much a fear of performing as a fear of failure. And, if you spend your whole life trying to avoid failure, you're not gonna accomplish much, and you're certainly gonna miss out on a whole lot of fun.
So, that's the simplest answer this overly analytical person can render!

Kaitlin'smom replied: when you talk to corey what does she say about it?

MommyToAshley replied:
Oh my gosh, how scary. Glad to you know that no one got hurt -- you must have been very quick to react. What a night you had.

MommyToAshley replied:
Dads are wired so differently than Moms. I think there a lot of things that we as Moms think about while Dads seem to be able to live a carefree life. That's probably a good thing because then together we provide a little balance.

jcc64 replied: I actually thought the same thing, Dee Dee!

Danalana replied: I agree with that too. There are things that I think about and get emotional about that never even enter Richard's mind. We are definitely wired differently, and that's a good thing.

DVFlyer replied:
My question was not posed from me being a father... but I understand how you might think that.

I am very analytical too and have a keen (but totally uneducated) interest in psychology and human behavior.

fwiw- In general, I definitely do not live a carefree life. My wife, on the other hand, has no worries.

To Jcc:

I wonder where you get this belief that if you try to avoid failure you're not going to accomplish much. Another equally valid belief is that if you avoid failure you won't fail.

Please understand that I am honestly not trying to argue, but instead, get to the root of why you are trying to change your daughter's behavior. I know you think it will make her a better person, and your heart is in the right place, but if she grows up doing things the way YOU want her to do them, she will never truly become her own person. She HAS to fail to learn.

Also, mine is just one person's opinion and I'm completely open to being wrong. In the end, you need to do what you think is best.

(and that is the simplest answer this "Sigmund Fraud" can give. )

DVFlyer replied:
Got back too late to edit this... (see edited part)

jcc64 replied: OK, Sigmund Fraud is totally hilarious, never heard that before!

I guess I just don't believe that's a great way to move through life. You may "succeed" at not failing if you never put yourself out there, but you will also live a very limited life and will miss out on A LOT. People who sit on their couches all day in front of the television may feel that they are not failing at anything, but what do they have to show for that at the end of the day? Any sense of accomplishment, any pride in themselves, any growth? I feel life is all about trying and failing, trying and failing, and every once in awhile, getting that home run or even just getting on 1st base. This isn't about gymnastics in the end, it's about developing healthy coping mechanisms. That's why it may appear that I've whipped myself into a frenzy over a stupid gymnastics competition.

DVFlyer replied: Of course this isn't about gymnastics and, as mentioned, you heart is where it should be... looking for the best out of your child.

Understand, avoiding the risk of failure does not mean you don't try things. In this case, it means your daughter should decide what risk she is willing to take... and then learn from the result.

Warren Buffet, arguably one of the most successful investors in the history of the world, avoids risk. He avoids... failing. Of course investing billions is a risk, but given the nature of our discussion, he doesn't take risks.

I imagine he sits on the couch quite a bit.

If you really want your daughter to take more risks (and I still am not convinced we have come to an understanding why YOU want this for her), show her or, even better, have her friends show her what happens when she succeeds....

If she fails because YOU pushed her, it's YOUR fault and will push her farther into her shell... "See mom... I TOLD you I couldn't do it".

If you can find a way for her to do it on her own (see note above about her friends) and she fails, YOU can say, "I'm so proud of your for trying... I'll bet NEXT time you'll get even closer to sticking that round-off back handspring double -hollow body, of course- layout".

jcc64 replied: Having a husband in the investment business, I'd venture to say that Warren Buffet has failed PLENTY. Everyone in that business has--it's the nature of the beast. The trick is to fail less than you succeed, but if Warren Buffet let fear be his guide, he would not be where he is now.
I think I understand what you're getting at. You think this is more important to ME than it is to my dd. I think you think I'm being a stage mother.
She asked to be enrolled in gymnastics, this was not my idea. The sport is expensive, time-consuming, and imo, unhealthy for adolescent girls' body image acceptance (thankfully that is not an issue yet). When you watch those girls in the Olympics, they all look like miserable little freaks. It also has a higher incidence of injuries than varsity football. I personally prefer team sports like soccer or t-ball, I think they're much healthier on many levels. But this is what SHE wants to be doing, what she loves, and I am willing to support her all the way. However, she needs to remember that being a gymnast involves performing in front of other people, that is the nature of this sport that she has chosen. She needs to come to terms with that, or find another activity.

DVFlyer replied: Warren Buffet has failed plenty?? Define plenty...

I don't know him personally, but from everything I've read, he is a "safe" investor. i.e. He avoids high risk investments due to their very "risky" nature. In other words, he gives himself the best chance of success. Doesn't mean he doesn't fail. Big difference.

Nope... don't think you're being a stage mother... I think you're trying to make your daughter do something she doesn't want to do. (said in a totally non-mean way). Let's face it, we've all made our children do things they didn't want to do.

Stage mothers want to be on-stage through their daughters. In this case, your daughter chose this sport and is now not happy with some of the requirements. You are trying to figure out a way to make her understand that "she" chose this so she needs to face the music... or get out out of the sport.

I agree with you that she has to understand what's involved with this sport if this is what she chooses to do. My point is she has to figure it out on her own. If she doesn't want to compete in front of people, then she runs the risk of not being able to participate in the sport. You making her compete is not the best way for her to learn this lesson.

Can she participate in gymnastics without competing? If not, then she needs to understand the rules are the rules. No compete... not gymnastics...

I'm trying to find a way to make this not YOU telling her what is going to happen, but HER figuring it out on her own since I think that will make her a better person.

IMO... of course.

MommyToAshley replied:
I don't think she is trying to force her to do anything she doesn't want to do, but I think she is looking for a way to guide her in making better choices as this seems to be becoming a pattern of behavior. I understand that she wants Corey just to try so she won't be afraid to experience different opportunities for fear of failing -- how many times have you said, "Just do your best!" At least that is what I got out of her post.

We guide our children every day in hopes that they will make better choices in life. However, I think the problem is with using gymnastics as the example. Not all children are the same... some need a nudge and with others the nudge will have the opposite affect. In Corey's eyes, it may become all about the gymnastics and the pressure to perform even if that is not the case -- and the lesson that is trying to be taught could get lost in the performance anxiety.

The other problem that I see is that I am not so sure this is an aspect of our children's personality that we can influence. We could encourage them, but in the end, I think it is ingrained into their personality and something they may just have to work through and that's hard to sit back and watch. I have a friend that is very outgoing and her child is very shy. My friend tries to encourage her daughter to be more social, continuously puts her daughter in social situations, but yet her daughter continues to be shy. It's not that her daughter is insecure, I think it is just part of her personality or temperament that is ingrained in her genetic make-up. I believe that we as parents can adopt certain strategies for guiding our children, but in the end, it is our child's personality that determines the success of those strategies.

jcc64 replied:

I think you're right on the money, Dee Dee. With 3 kids, I've had to perpetually readjust my parenting strategies to fit their own unique dispositions. What worked brilliantly with one, was a colossal failure with the others. It's all very humbling.

luvmykids replied:
I think that sums it up pretty well, have you put it to her that way?

cameragirl21 replied: Idk, I wanted to stay out of this because I'm sure I'll get flak for what I'm about to say but bear in mind that while I was practically and for all practical purposes born here (I was a toddler when we came to the US from the former USSR) and my parents are very Americanized and I speak mostly in English to them, I still have a bit of Old Country left in me so the way I would handle this is very simple.
I'd tell her she doesn't have to perform if she doesn't want to BUT she is on a competitive sports team and is therefore a member of a team and by not performing she is letting down the whole team. That said, she can choose not to perform and then she'll be promptly pulled from the competitive gymnastics team OR if she wants to stay on it, she'll have to fight her demons and go out there and do it.
I have to say that really young kids model for me and I want them to have fun and I always tell them that the most important thing is to have fun but at the end of the day, they are there to do a job and if they can't do that then they are replaced with a child who can. The business is not for everyone and neither is competitive gymanstics and just about everything else in life.
I wouldn't force her against her will but I'd tell her that no performance equals no competitive team, period.
When I was a kid, I played the piano and I had to perform and no one asked me if I wanted to and I knew that not performing was not an option and as a result I have zero fear of public speaking, in fact, I love it, the bigger the crowd, the better. I know public speaking is a paralyzing fear from many but it's fun and games for me. Was I scarred for life because I was nervous and had to perform anyway? Not in the least. Did I ever screw up and get embarrassed? A couple of times. Did I get over it? Without a doubt.
Life is a struggle and I believe that struggle starts the day we're born. I was very good in music but totally sucked as a gymnast (I tried gymnastics for 2 years and was not good at it). We all, I believe, have a certain talent. If nurtured, that talent can take us a long way or at least give us a great deal of enjoyment. If not, then I believe it goes to waste.
Simply put--I don't believe in forcing kids to perform against their will but I also believe that if they're part of a team then the fact that they're not just in it for themselves has to be made clear to them and if that is not reason enough to perform in spite of nerves then perhaps they're not ready for team sports no matter how much talent and love they have for the sport.
JMO.