McCain VP Choice - Watching?

mammag wrote: It's Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska!!!!!!!

Crystalina replied: Just heard.

lisar replied: I have no idea who she is. It is a she right. Just checking.

mammag replied: Yes she is....

Pro Life
Pro gun rights
etc.


Mother of 5 including 1 special needs child. And not that this makes a difference on her qualifications but she is quite beautiful as well.

msoulz replied: Interesting - So how do those staunch republicans among us feel about this choice?

mammag replied: I'm loving it! I don't know soooo much about her but she sounds like a really cool woman and falls in line with my views. Especially with the prolife issue. She knew her newborn was going to have down syndrome and had it anyway. She also sounds like a tough cookie from what they are saying about her now on the news. I'm excited to learn more about her.

cameragirl21 replied: Well, I won't vote for anyone who is pro life...I was undecided but I think Obama just got my vote.

Crystalina replied: I just heard she's being investigated in Alaska. Anyone know why?

MommyToAshley replied: I don't know much about her. I am looking forward to learning more though. This will be an interesting race. And, either way, our country is about to make history.

lisar replied: she has my vote:


SOCIAL ISSUES – “I am pro-life and I believe that marriage should only be between and man and a woman.”

GUNS AND HUNTING - “I am a lifetime member of the NRA, I support our Constitutional right to bear arms and am a proponent of gun safety programs for Alaska's youth….I have always strongly supported the personal use of fish and game by Alaskans. I grew up hunting and fishing in Alaska, and I am proud to raise my children with this same uniquely Alaskan heritage. … Anti-hunting groups who oppose hunting and fishing rights will be the winners if we allow them to pit us against ourselves….As an Alaskan with strong beliefs on this issue, I am confident in my ability to build consensus among diverse user groups and reconcile the many competing interests in a manner.”

“I believe in protecting Alaska's environment through fair enforcement of our environmental laws. Having a clean record on environmental regulation is critical to getting ANWR open and maintaining our fisheries mining, timber, and tourism industries.”

lisar replied:
They really cant change the laws on this, so to base your vote strictly on that really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. They can say what they want but they wont ever change the laws on it. The people would vote on it first. And it wouldn't ever happen.

Kaitlin'smom replied: I just heard very interesting......should make for an interesting election.

cameragirl21 replied:
Technically they can...presidents appoint US Supreme Justices and they can overturn Roe v Wade...McCain is an old man and anything can happen to him which would put her in the president's chair, enabling her to appoint judges who overturn Roe v Wade.
I would never vote for someone who would infringe on my rights as a female, even though I personally would never have an abortion, it's the whole idea of it, misogyny if you ask me.

mammag replied:
It looks like it was for firing Alaska's Public Safety Commisioner and whether it was because he would not fire her ex brother-in-law.....


Sarah Palin, 44, Governor of Alaska, has some controversies attached. There is a controversy over her ex brother-in-law, Mike Wooten. Mike Wooten and Sarah Palin’s sister divorced. Mike Wooten worked as a state trooper.


The legislative panel have a $100,000 budget to investigate if Sarah Palin fired Alaska’s Public Safety Commissioner because he refused to fire Mike Wooten. Sarah Palin has denied her involvement. Palin denied having her hand in her husband, Todd Palin, dialing Wooten’s bosses. Palin’s administrative staff also made many calls to Wooten’s superiors. When questioned,

The Palins alleged that Mike Wooton drank beer in his patrol car, and fired a Taser at his step son, age 11. Mike Wooton was accused of threatening the safety of the Sarah Palin’s father.

mammag replied:
How so? That is a bit of a stretch... being against murder of unborn children translates to hatred of women???

cameragirl21 replied:
I'm not going to get into this debate, I've been here long enough to know better. All I'm going to say is that it's got nothing to do with murder and everything to do with my rights to my own body and no politician has the right to make that choice for me.

if she is so against killing, she shouldn't be so eager to put guns in people's hands, jmo of course.

mammag replied:
Good idea because with that last statement I can see that it would get really heated, really quick.

BAC'sMom replied: GIRL POWER

MyBlueEyedBabies replied: I am definitely interested to learn more about her. I would never single issue vote thou a womans right to choose is something I feel passionately about.
Dee Dee was right in saying this will be an interesting election.

lisar replied:
But you have to really think about it. They wont do it. No one has the balls to do it. Look at the history. It repeats itself.

Just a stupid question but is that what you base your whole choice on? I know people who base their choice only on one issue. I look at all of them overall.

cameragirl21 replied:
No, I don't base my vote on just one thing, I have a handful of issues I'm very passionate about--the right to choose, Israel (this is the one issue on which I lean pretty far to the right), the environment, drilling in Alaska (I am totally against this) and I would say that I could never vote for someone who goes totally against what I belive in on those issues.
Secondary issues for me that are also very important but not number one are--the rights of gay people to be equal to the rest of us (I admit I don't totally understand gay people, although I believe they are born that way but I do think they deserve every right that we heteros have, including marriage), and the second ammendment, which I am not a fan of but not totally against either. Btw, Lisa, just because I'm not fond of guns does not mean I have anything against you or anyone who owns one, my father owns a gun and while I don't like it, I would never hold it against him. Also, of course, animal rights is a huge issue for me but it is not something that politicians really focus on, in either direction.
As for McCain, I think he just lost the state of Florida which is very important to the election. I've been surprised before but I can't see the vast majority of South Floridians finding any commonality with Sarah Palin and traditionally, the S Florida tri county area speaks for Florida when it comes to total votes.
I was uneasy about Obama and still am because some of what he said made it abundantly clear to me that he has no idea how to handle the mess he's walking into but I think Biden is an excellent choice and I'll certainly take him as first choice out of the entire foursome involved here.

Nina J replied: She sounds like a mixed bag, for me at least. But, I wouldn't vote for her because of her pro-gun. I live in a country that has very strict gun laws...I just don't like guns that aren't had for a specific purpose, to own a gun in my country you have to have a specific purpose and that does not include protection.

I am not voting though, so it's not like I really mind that much lol.

Crystalina replied:
You're so right Lisa. I knew Obama would get the vote before Hillary d/t history. Black men were allowed to vote before women so I've been telling dh this whole time that (unfortunately) he would go further before she will in this race. I'm one of those Hillary supporters who are in complete limbo right now.

cameragirl21 replied:
Don't get me started, I SO wanted her to get the nomination and be pres. Like I said, I'm not a fan of Obama but no way will I vote for McCain with that VP.

luvmykids replied: I'm thinking out loud because I've only caught glimpses of her speech on msnbc, so no flaming for anything I might say, because I don't know much about her but am intrigued.

Initially, my reaction is that I like her, so far. I like her record as governor, I think she and McCain would work well together, and I agree with her on most issues.

For some odd reason though, and this is the part I may get flamed for, I'm stuck on the fact that she has a pretty new baby and the thought of what her campaign and potential position would mean for him bothers me . I'm assuming the dad, with her so involved in politics, is their primary caregiver, so it may not be this big trauma to the kids, but as much as I like what I know of her so far, I feel bad for her younger children. I'm not in any way saying a mom shouldn't be a prominent political figure or that it wouldn't work for their particular family, I just know my kids would be devastated if I had a job so demanding.

However, I am definitely very interested to find out more about her and, I'm sure, we'll see a bit more inside their family and then it might not bother me. It doesn't even bother me to the point I wouldn't vote for them, it's just a nagging kind of thing.

So, in a nutshell , I think she sounds pretty good but I need to know more before I can commit. I am not a fan of Obama/Biden though, so it probably wouldn't take much to reaffirm my original vote

lisar replied:
I agree with you on alot of the issues. I base my main votes on alot of different things like

The second amendment: I am all for guns. I do agree they need some stricter laws on them though. But I don't want them taken away.

Pro-life, or Pro choice: I could really care less about what they think. Its a mute subject anyways. Nothing will ever change on this, the only reason its considered an issue is because alot of religious groups make it that way. Personally I think it should be pro-choice for the right reasons, and not just because some girl doesn't want a kid right now. Rape, and things like that should be the only reason for an abortion that's just my opinion on it.

Israel: I don't know anything about this issue. Can you educate me on this so I can know something about it please. And research it. I really didn't know it was considered an issue.

Education: I read alot about what they have to say about education. I wanna know what changes they are planning and how they plan on changing them. I know the public schools SUCK here where I am, and I would love to see a change in them. That whole "no kid left behind" thing is a bunch of crap.

Iraq: I wont get into details on my opinion on this cause I don't want everyone here arguing.

Health care: I DO NOT want a government controlled health care system. They have enough control as I see it. The last thing they need is to be able to dictate my health care. I know it works for Canada and all but apparently your gov. is better than ours cause they would screw it all up here.

Fair Tax: If one of them were for fair tax it would be even better.

Immigration laws: Its America speak English or go home. Need I say more. (sorry if that offends anyone)


Those are just the main things for me. Please educate me on the Israel thing though.

mammag replied:
I think it's safe to say that the majority of people who have a gun, do so for a specific reason. Whether it's hunting or in my case to protect myself and my family.

lisar replied:
I personally dont think it would be that bad on the kids. The new baby she can still see and spend plenty of time with the baby. He can travel with them. And there is some down time for her still be a mother. But I do understand your concerns. I already thought of that same thing.

Crystalina replied: I listened to the VP talk and I know that McCain only picked her to win over women and jilted Hillary supporters but I'm not sure this lady has the same "umph" that Hillary has. I'm just going off this first speech though because I never heard of her before this.

cameragirl21 replied:
omg, are you serious? This woman is the opposite of Hillary...reminds me of Marilyn Quayle....

lisar replied:
I have guns for more reasons than that.

Protection, I have ALOT of snakes where I live. And some wild animals. Heck that bobcat looks mean. And the raccoons dont always run off when you open the door. And just in case someone was to break in.

Hunting: I like to hunt, dh LOVES to hunt. If you shoot it though you should eat it. Dont shoot it unless you plan on eating it. Thats what I believe.

Sports: Clay shooting is considered a sport. I have enough land where I live that I am allowed to clay shoot. Its a blast.

luvmykids replied:
I had that thought initially, and I'm sure it played some part, but I don't believe that is the only reason he chose her. There are other more qualified, better known women that he could have picked if that was all he was after imho.

lisar replied:
I agree I think his "main" reason for picking her was for the woman affect. And he will get alot of womens vote just for that reason.

lisar replied:
He is gona pull a bill clinton but this time it will be with the vp. LOL. Sorry I had to say it

Crystalina replied:
What I mean is just from listening to her speech she seems mild in attitude compared to Hillary. Maybe it's because she's much younger and has all the kids.

luvmykids replied:
A big reason I can like her Sorry, couldn't help it

Crystalina replied:
I don't personally know why he made the decision he made. I'm just going by the newscasters speaking. I heard that his campaign wanted to wait and announce their VP after Obama made his choice. What I read into that and from their idle chit-chat was he would pick a woman compared to who O picked and there has been talk for a while about him picking a woman to get the womans votes.

Crystalina replied:
Yes, but at the same time a woman in politics has to have attitude to run with the big dogs. You can't be timid and nice. I'm not saying this woman is, like I said I know nothing about her but just by listening to her today.....I don't know. Looks and first impressions can be deceiving though.

mammag replied:
I think that is exactly what is great about her. She has the right kind of attitude mixed with a history of fighting hard. She fights really hard and gets things done.

msoulz replied:
Yep, that is my initial reaction as well, fishing for the Hillary democrats. Additionally, she is quite young, so that helps with those that think he is too old for the job. Opposite of Obama, who picked an older man to balance his relative youth.

JMHO

holley79 replied: I think it's too early to tell what she is going to be like. I'm not a Hillary fan so I wouldn't have voted if she were going to be VP. I was already for McCain before he brought a woman on board.

Crystalina replied:
What scares me though is that she's pretty green from what I hear so far. If something happens to McCain then she's our main man. We all know he's up there in age and if I'm not mistaken has had health issues a couple times just since announcing he was running.

my2monkeyboys replied: I think this was a great pick, all around -- in her ability to get things done, to not just go along with every money-sucking idea that the govt has, that she is a woman, a mom, a wife, that she has a very personal stake in the war..... I hope if (when ) she gets in the White House that her and McCain kick butt and takes names. McCain's choosing of her for VP actually made me feel better about my vote.

Danalana replied: YES YES YES!! I didn't even know because I have been running errands all day. My husband came in all excited and turned the television to Headline News so I could see. Richard said, "she has high ethical standards and doesn't take any crap" He has had me watching since he got home about 20 minutes ago So we are all excited about things now.

TANNER'S MOM replied: Well I am interested in her to say the least. I am actually shocked about this. I didn't figure he would do this. I will say that if she is from Alaska she is one tough cookie. I mean she got the vote of a state that is mostly male in the first place and I am sure that wasn't a vote that was easily won.

1) I am more of a pro-choice person. What's right for me is for me to decide. It's my body and though it's not morally what I would want to do that is still my decesion to make. Though I get very disgusted when it is used as birth control over and over. But I don't think it will change. I don't think they would do anything about it. I mean if anyone was going to do it it would've happened along time ago. I mean look how many repub we've had in the White House and that was even before the women really had any respect or standing. They could've changed it then but didn't.

2) 2nd Amedment is very important to me. I mean yes there does need to be some control but you don't see people in the South using a 30/30 which is a hunting rifle, to go shoot their co-workers because they got pee'd off one day. The only time you see something like that happen is when the husband comes home to early one night. I mean I am sure there are a few good ole boys who do bad. But I think in the most case people who legally obtain guns have respect from them, for the laws and for the death they can cause whether a person or an animal. I know in my house there is alot of respect. You know it's not me I worry about it's the other idiot who happens to be a meth head, who broke into a house down the road and stole a gun, now he is hearing strange voices that tell him to come to my house. And when you live so far away from someone if I had to call 911, my whole family would be dead before they got here. I love that she mentined gun safety programs for young people. I know that most people would not like that. But my sons are avid hunters and avid shooters. Tanner has competed in competition shooting already. He is waiting for the 4-H club to start it's shooting club up this year. Now, some my think I am a bad parent. But you have to realize there is alot of difference living in the boondocks in Arkansas then living in New York City. Here guns are a tool we use often, just like someone uses a kitchen knife. Here Daddy's take their boys hunting as soon as they can walk. They bound and they learn respect for wildlife, for forest and habitat and they learn respect for animals and life. You may not think they do but I promise they do. Any true and honest hunter hates to see an animal suffer. They hate to see it when someone hunts or shoots illegally and they hate the people who hunt only for trophy's and not food. I mean yes a big rack is nice, but they will for sure eat the deer. They realize that over population leads to more suffering for the animal. Poor habitat, inbreeding, sickness etc. Our kids learn the life cycle and the food chain and so much more. I have never heard of anyone trying to get programs started for the youth like this. Everyone else would be to scared.

Nothing upsets me more than the thought of outlawing ALL guns. I mean stronger brady laws maybe. But I don't think I could ever turn in my guns.

3) I am interested in her being a mother. I think it could be a very good thing for the mothers of America. I mean who else knows how hard it is to have to leave your children to work. Hope for the best in daycare and pray they don't get sick b/c you don't want to take off. Now granted I am sure her children will be with her and she will have a nanny or secret service manny. But at least she is a mother. With that many children it's obvious that family is important to her. And I think it's been too long since family was important in the white house.


One concern I do have the economy in Alaska. I mean they have a huge unemployment rate. I am sure the weather has to do with that. Plus look how much gas and the cost of living is there. I hope she can understand the needs of the America people and realize that we need a major change in America and we can't continue to live like this.

Obama never had my vote and never will. Frankly he scares the crap out of me for many many reason that I won't name here. I am not a fan of McCain but I am going for the lessor of the 2 evils and I hope this gives McCain some kind of advantage. I was beginning to get very scared.

stella6979 replied:
I absolutely agree!!!

Danalana replied:
Oooooooh, very well said!

Maddie&EthansMom replied: I'm impressed. I'm actually hopeful now. I obviously need to research a bit more, but so far....so good.

jcc64 replied: Well, here's what I've unearthed, which I will follow with my opinion, fwiw:
She is 18 months into her first term as Alaska's governor. Prior to that, she was the mayor of a small town of 6500 people.
She is staunchly pro-drilling, anti-choice, pro-creationism, anti-environment.
She is currently embroiled in a scandal which could ultimately lead to her impeachment, which you can read about here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080829/ap_on_...BE0n.evph5h24cA


My opinion:
I think McCain's choice of this particular woman is cloying and incredibly patronizing to women. It's clear his handlers think that we women are a mindless lot desperate to elect a woman, ANY woman. There are so many more competent, independent, and accomplished Republican women he could have chosen- Olympia Snow, Condi Rice, Christie Todd Whitman--why this woman who has virtually no record and is currently embroiled in a scandal?? As Jennifer pointed out, her anti-choice stance will and should be enough to discourage any legitimate Democratic fence sitters. I think Hillary will eat her alive, frankly.
What I find astonishing is her lack of experience, particularly in light of the fact that Obama's lack of experience is the centerpiece of the McCain camp's strategy. It would be less of an issue if McCain weren't so old and a two-time cancer survivor. Personally, I don't think Washington experience is such an asset in this election cycle, but the Republicans are too far in to back pedal on this issue now. It's a curious strategy, and I'm anxious to see where they're going with it.
To me it seems they were trying to kill two birds with one stone: appeal to the Christian conservatives who apparently are less than thrilled with McCain, and grab as many Hillary supporters as possible. The first part of the plan may work, but I'll be shocked if anyone that supported Hillary will find Palin palatable.
And to all you gun people, Obama addressed the issue clearly in his speech last night. He gave no indication that he intends to take your guns away from you.

jem0622 replied:
[/QUOTE][QUOTE]

I couldn't have said it better myself, Jeanne. Well put.

Crystalina replied:



Very well said. I've never heard of her until she was announced today (as I'm sure most of us didn't) but I've heard them talk about her being a hockey mom, a former beauty contestant and her basketball career just as much as they've talked about her political qualifications. I think politics should outweigh her extracurricular activities as far as what's being talked about. I know more about her personal life (she married her high school sweetheart ) then anything else. I'm still waiting to see what tomorrow will bring but you would think they would have shown us the best today of all days.

cameragirl21 replied:
seriously, I think I'm about to vomit just from reading that.
Jeanne, I couldn't have said it better myself. I too wondered how they're going to sell this woman to the public when her experience is less than that of Obama and they've been going on and on about Obama's lack of experience. And seriously, why this woman? I'm all for a woman in power but that woman is to me, in a word, detestable.
I think McCain just handed Obama his victory. And I think the USA will be better for it.
Looking forward to watching Hillary spar with this woman too.
And Lisa, I am trying to find you a good reference link about the issue with Israel, one that's not from a biased source so you can read about the whole story and form your own opinions. I don't think we'll ever see an anti-Israel candidate that would have a chance at a nomination, at least not anytime soon but still, it's a very important issue to me. Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I'm not ignoring your request for info on the subject.

mammag replied:
You mean in 2016 when the incumbent VP is running for Pres against Hillary??

mammag replied:
What difference does it make how many people were in the town? She was still the Mayor and liked enough to become Governor of the State. BTW, everything I've heard was 9000 but that's neither here nor there. As Megyn Kelly said.... "how many people were in the town Barrack was the Mayor of???? Oh yeah, he wasn't Mayor". She has 16 years of experience. Let us not forget Dems are concerned about electing an inexperienced person that culd become president if something happened to McCain, yet they are willing to elect an actual president with no experience.

"She is staunchly pro-drilling, anti-choice, pro-creationism, anti-environment."

Interpretation - A spiritual, down to earth woman who will fight for the smallest among us and their right to life, who will help to bring gas prices down and bring much needed ethics reform to Washington.

Crystalina replied:

Crystalina replied: My house is not pleasant these days. DH is all for McCain and I'm more for Obama. We were both for Hillary....go figure.

luvmykids replied:
That is your right, but for the record, keep in mind that there are a few of us who want to at the other side of that spectrum

msoulz replied:

And isn't every African American going to vote for Obama?? Talk about incredibly patronizing and understimating a population of people.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Coming in late...but I like her so far. Her stances are pretty similar to mine.

jem0622 replied:

Isn't it sad that it's 2008 and we are still making this an issue? Race, gender, etc.

cameragirl21 replied:
Truly, I don't believe all blacks are going to vote for Obama and I don't think that was ever the basis of his campaign, nor was he chosen by the democratic party as a nominee for that reason. I can't speak for Jeanne but I think the point she was trying to make is that McCain purposely chose her to try to get women voters, perhaps the ones who wanted Hillary, like myself. And she is right, those of us who were on the fence would NEVER consider voting for McCain with this woman on board. Seriously, I mean McCain no disrespect but I have to truly wonder if this is a sign of early stage senility on his part. Not only is she not likely to draw in any women that wouldn't have otherwise voted for him anyway but also, she is less experienced than Obama which was McCain's entire platform of why people should vote for him instead of Obama. Sorry, but this is just not the type of woman that would do anything to move our country forward, rather, her thinking is more backward than anything else.
I'm also amused that this is McCain's God's honest answer to Hillary...they are nothing alike! I agree with Jeanne, there are SO many more suitable repub women he could have chosen, this one is trouble with a capital T. I never thought I'd see the day I'd be all excited about Obama, I figured I'd vote for one or the other, with little enthusiasm as I don't care much for either but now I'm ready to work on Obama's campaign!

Bamamom replied: !

Maybe that is the whole point. I think many people are taking for granted that he is trying to draw in the female vote. Maybe he's just a maverick with convictions choosing a running mate that is also a maverick with convictions. JMO.

mammag replied:
When all else fails, bring out the personal insults, eh? That's like saying "no offense, but you stink". Anytime someone says, no offense or no disrespect, it's inevitably followed by an offensive or disrespectful statement.

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
I love you.

Have I mentioned how glad I am that you are back?

HuskerMom replied: I am very happy with McCain's choice and so is Dh.

cameragirl21 replied:
this has nothing to do with personal insults, I spoke entirely in earnest...I can't imagine a sane McCain would make a decision like this, it defies logic and all good sense. So yes, I truly wonder if perhaps he is not entirely well upstairs if you kwim. I certainly wish him no harm and mean him no disrespect whatsoever. I'm willing to bet I'm not the only person on earth who is questioning McCain's mental well being tonight.
Btw, as of tonight, McCain's numbers are down and Obama's are up, go figure....

luvmykids replied:
Of course you aren't, and everyone who doesn't want him in office is probably cheering his decision in the hopes that it has dashed his chance at the white house.

Fact of the matter is, just like any other debatable topic, those who are strongly against him will remain so regardless. Would you honestly have voted for McCain if Condeleeza was his VP?

cameragirl21 replied:
honestly, Monica believe it or not, I was leaning toward McCain. He's not pro life, he's very pro Israel, he adopted an orphan from Bangladesh(this is imo very admirable ) and didn't seem too conservative.
I was never too fond of Obama.
But if McCain can pick this VP then he definitely is no more up to the job than Obama, but Biden is and Palin isn't. So it's an easy decision now.

luvmykids replied:
I can respect your opinion on that, I won't argue that Biden is a capable politician but in my case, no matter who Obamas vp is, I couldn't have voted for him

cameragirl21 replied:
I can respect that too and I'm not telling you that you should vote for Obama. The point I was trying to make is that you were always for McCain, as you readily admitted and therefore McCain always had your vote and getting this woman as VP didn't win him your vote but it did lose him mine and many others, I'm sure. I doubt very much it gained him any votes as most of his female voters are like you--with him before he chose Palin as VP.
So what did he gain by bringing her aboard? absolutely nothing. What did he lose? Enough votes to potentially hand the victory over to Obama. When you see a candidate win not by his own brilliance but rather due to the bad decision of the other candidate, isn't it fair to question the mental well being of the latter candidate? If you and I are competing for a prize and I have the upper hand but then make a bad decision that essentially hands you victory, I'd expect people to think I'm a little and I wouldn't take it as a personal insult if they did.

mammag replied:
They always get a bump int the polls after the convention. The highest was Clinton at 16%, 2nd was Jimmy Carter on his 2nd run at 10% and we all know how that went. In fact Reagan had less of a bounce after his convention. Incidentally, Democrats typically have a larger bounce after the DNC than Republicans do after the RNC. Maybe because Republicans realize that it's all a carefully planned propaganda event. We aren't as caught up in the emotion of it all.

BTW, I am having a hard time fathoming how it was that you were ever for McCain considering your very liberal leanings... here is his opinion on abortion...

McCain supports the following statements:
Abortions should be legal only when the pregnancy resulted from incest, rape, or when the life of the woman is endangered.
Prohibit the late-term abortion procedure known as “partial-birth” abortion.
Prohibit public funding of abortions and public funding of organizations that advocate or perform abortions.

luvmykids replied:
I still think thats a stretch...If bad decisions equal mental instability we'd all be considered lunatics

Crystalina replied: I don't know why anyone on here takes personally what anyone else says about any of the nominees or their VPs. It only causes friction. Let a person post and say what they want and if you have a question then ask it but why pick everything apart and why drag it out? Especially when what your posting is your opinion on a person and inputting your beliefs? We are not going to change anyone's mind about how they will vote and our minds will not be changed. We've been down this road before and we're all hard headed like that.

Yes, McCain's older then dirt.
Yes, Obama talks better then anyone out there.
Yes, McCain picked a woman because he wanted the woman's vote.
Yes, Obama is part African American and many African Americans may vote for him (although there are many who also won't). We can't say that he all will vote for him.


It's not going to change anything but it will get us at each others throats don't you think?

And I really wish this smiley -----> were deleted. It's never used nicely.

Alright, I had one of those mornings if you haven't noticed. Love you all.

I shall dethrone now.

Kentuckychick replied: I had been on the fence about my choice for president... but I think this has sealed the deal for me in that I'm voting for Obama.

I have very little respect for a woman who highly publicizes the fact that she gave birth to a child with down syndrome back in May (it was all over the news then -- I knew the name sounded familiar when I heard it) and then decides to run for VP 3 months later -- I don't care who is staying home to raise the baby.

I also have little respect for constantly hearing "She found out her baby had downs and she still had him" -- I've heard it a lot. She's no different than every other parent in the world with a child with a genetic disorder. Kudos to her, now be there for that child!

I also have to gag when I hear her refered to as "gorgeous" or "beautiful"... those have no political bearing at all and in fact, I find it amusing that McCain choose a woman very similar to his wife... even though he'd only met her once and didn't know her well at all.

I personally think he's shooting himself in the foot on this one.

luvmykids replied: Crystal, whether you were referring to me or not, I'm not taking anyones thoughts on Palin personally. What does offend me though is anyone confusing their opinion with fact, it would be embarrassingly arrogant to assume that because I think something, everyone else should and they must be ignorant if they don't, so yes, I will reply if I disagree with something said because it's NOT personal, it's just a difference in opinion.

Crystalina replied:
No, I'm not pointing you out. I've been right in there with everyone else so I would have no right. I'm just saying that we've all been down this road before when it comes to us and politic/religion and a number of other topics. People can turn facts into opinions or just view the fact from a different angle. All I'm saying is we've been here and done this before.

Either way anyone can post what they want. I'm just saying to keep in mind how things usually end up with these topics and I don't mean you. I'm just addressing you because you addressed me. I know you say it's "NOT personal, it's just opinion" but I also know how it always becomes or is taken personally.

I'm just a lowly member making a statement.

msoulz replied:

Yes, it is horribly sad. But I really think the media has a lot to do more to do with that than most of us, white or black, man or woman, as we vote for the person, not the sex or color of his/her skin. JMHO - and my hope!

Bamamom replied:
So every parent who has a special needs child should just quit their job and stay home with that child? Why can't she continue in her line of work and raise this little boy? Sure her hours will be long - so are a lot of mom's and dad's who have special needs children. I don't see where she is doing her child a disservice by running with McCain.

Crystalina replied:
I agree with you but I think they are trying to make her a saint though by saying that over and over. There are many women out there who have a chance of having a child with DS (my test came back high for the baby I'm carrying now as a matter of fact). I'm 100% pro-choice but my choice has never been to terminate the pregnancy. I think women make that choice as a mother and because she gave birth to a DS child "they" are making it seem like her wings and halo are glowing so brightly that she should rise up above the rest. I'm not saying this is how she thinks but the media/her camp is surely beating it into us.

cameragirl21 replied: Monica, a simple bad decision does not make one unstable, but this is so not a simple bad decision. A simple bad decision is when you dress your kids in white for a bday party and they come home covered in ice cream and cake stains. This is nothing like that.
Let's just take this one apart for a moment, ok? First, this is McCain's only shot--he's old and not in the best of health. If he loses this, his entire political career is pretty much over. Many Christian conservatives were not thrilled with him BUT they would NEVER vote for Obama so he really didn't need to appease them. He may have done so by choosing Palin but like I said, he doesn't need to worry, they won't be voting for his opponent.
There were plenty of traditional democrats, like myself, who are fence sitters, particularly those of us who are pro Israel and may be uneasy about Obama, not so much because his middle name is Hussein but also because of his former pastor's views, etc. But Obama was smart, he chose Biden as his running mate...I think Biden is probably the most pro Israel democrat in the senate...he also appeals not only to liberals but to many right wing moderates as well.
Remember that due to the electoral college, it's not about the popular vote and big cities typically speak for various states. For example, LA and SF speak for California, NYC speaks for NY, South Fllorida's tri county--Miami, Ft. Lauderdale and the Palm Beaches speaks for FL. These large cities typically have a populace that is forward thinking and will find nothing in common with Palin. On top of all that, he chose an unkown from a state that is by and large, completely removed from the rest of the US...she likely has no idea what goes on in the continental US. Now, if McCain had chosen the governor of FL as his VP, he'd be a shoe in. He can't win without FL and I doubt very much most of us in S FLorida will find anything appealing in Palin. The only traditional major republican voting block in S Florida is the Cuban population and they're likely to see her as someone who has no idea what the Cuban/Latin American plight is like all the way up in caribou country.
Anything can still happen, I'm not going to say it's completely over but I can tell you that to call McCain's choice a bad one is a mild understatement. I agree with Kentuckychick (sorry, can't remember your name) that he essentially shot himself in the foot. And tbh, I'm rather disappointed because I wanted to vote for McCain, I found him palatable as a repub and if he'd chosen someone decent like Joe Lieberman as his VP, I'd be happy as a clam. What I'm wondering is if McCain can still change his mind once reality finally hits him. Or is this decision final and binding and there's no going back?

Kentuckychick replied:
Exactly! It's the fact that people are trying to make her a saint because she kept the child.

It's also about the things she said in interviews about how important it is to be there for that child and to take time off for the family and now, only three months later she's taking on a MAJOR commitment that will keep her away from her family for long periods of time?

I'm not saying that parents should quit their jobs and stay home 24/7 with their children who have disabilities... I'm saying that she could have kept the job she had and been there for him more.

luvmykids replied:
FWIW, I wasn't taking your statement personally just addressing it since I felt it applied to me as well as others

I think we all know this is probably the mildest this topic will be between now and November <-----See, that smilie can be used nicely

cameragirl21 replied:
ITA with this and have to add that sometime back I shot a wedding at a church where the lady who was in charge of special events at the church had a daughter who had DS...she brought the daughter with her, as well as her other daughter who had no problems that I was aware of. I too am 100% pro choice but not for one moment did I think this lady was a saint for not having an abortion. However, she told me that her DS daughter who was 14 was also a cancer survivor. Outside of the obvious facial features, I'd never have known the daughter had DS, she was talking to me the entire time and then dancing at the wedding just as any 14 year old would.
Like I said, I didn't find the mother to be a saint for not aborting but I DID find her to be a saint for taking the time to work with her daughter so that she could otherwise lead a normal life, from what I could see anyway.

Crystalina replied:
There is still a chance my baby could have DS. I refused all the tests that would tell me. I just went by my doctors assurance that it could be a false positive and him looking at his old-fashioned 2D u/s pics and measuring the head and distance of the eyes. This is all the assurance I have that my child will not have DS but if she does I will not expect special treatment, I will not tell everyone I meet, I will not wear a t-shirt announcing it (since I don't have a team of people speaking for me). My child will be treated no different then the other two I already have except for the obvious patience I'll have to use but that isn't saying much because I pray for patience everyday with Evan.

If I were Palin I would insist people stop using my child's DS as a lever for sympathy (what else could it really be) or to show how "brave" I am. It cheapens her child IMO and it's kind of a cheap shot all together.

Bamamom replied:
I guess my point was that in the post that I quoted it seemed as though Palin would be doing her son a disservice by running for VP. I agree that she shouldn't be given any special "kudos" for lack of a better word - lots of people have DS kids and lots of them work. BUT I don't think she should be looked down upon for choosing this life path because she has a son with DS either.

Crystalina replied:
I agree. I'm not one to look down on any mother for working (even if they really don't have to). She has every right to do what she's doing. If, for some reason, it causes "damage" to her child then that's something she'll have to deal with. I'm sure she'll have time though. It's not like politicians really work that hard.

holley79 replied: Like what I read. So far from what I had read on her I like her. How much more "American" can you get. I think he made a wise choice. She has gone against some very heavy hitters, she doesn't play the good ole boy game, her husband is a union worker, her son is in the military and will be heading to Iraq this coming month, yes she had a baby who has Down's Syndrome. She wasn't the one making a big deal about it the ones around her were. With all the "Specials" who are airing women speaking out about how they are sueing their OB's because they should have been told their child had a genetic defect and they should have been giving the option to abort no matter how far long their pregnancy was, well kudos to her. So what she's pro- life many of us are in one sense or another. She is pro- death penalty, so are many of us. She really seems like someone majority of regular middle class people can relate to. She has a lot of the same values as I do. I'm not saying I'm pro- life or pro- choice but I will say that I like her and a lot. Majority of the people I have spoken with at work are for her as well.

Danalana replied:
*hi-5*

ZandersMama replied: I really have nothing to add, that i can add anyway

I just wanted to throw something out to Crystal.
that was very well said about your little one and i admire you.

jcc64 replied:
yeah, we Democrats are far less capable of critical thought and analysis. We go all mushy and mindless when people talk to us....C'mon, you were right when you said conventions are propaganda for the faithful, but be real, it goes on in both parties. I think you're mistaking passion for mindlessness.

My2Beauties replied: I don't have much to add that Cameragirl and Jeanne haven't already said and KentuckyChick for that matter except I am going to say that I, for one, was very offended when he announced his VP because I felt that it was a hit to all the Hillary supporters out there. I seriously believes that he thinks the Hillary supporters that were on the fence will come over to his camp now because he has a female running mate. This coming from a man who voted no to equal pay for women! HA! I also question where his mind is at and I think that he just handed the title Pres of the US over to Obama. Frankly, I'm glad he made this mistake.