Just wondering how much times have changed - What are our thoughts in this
TANNER'S MOM wrote: In the local news this morning.. I heard this story.
My question is how much is too far What is breaking the law?
A man who lived around the out skirts of town. Bought a hog over the weekend for slaughter. Our temps dropped and we got our first frost. As with tradition.. he slaughtered the hog for his family to eat with the first frost.
The meat wasn't wasted. His family will eat it. It's pork chops and ham.
His neighbors saw him butcher this hog..and called the police. They now have him in jail for a serious degree of animal cruelty.
Now I know how I stand on this. How does everyone feel.
Is it any different then buying a pork chop...just because we don't see the hog. I mean hogs are huge animals and they get mean too. So, it's not a cutesty piglet..it's like 600-700lbs of hog. .
booey2 replied: Well, IMO they had no right to call til they had all the facts. Knowing where you all live, I would never jump to conclusions without first investigating it. He bought it outright, just like buying a cow for slaughter. He does not belong in jail for feeding his family. JMO
coasterqueen replied: Well, did he butcher it humanely? If so I don't see a problem with it. Where do people think meat comes from?
C&K*s Mommie replied: To each his own, if that was his family tradition to slaughter an animal at the first frost than that is his business, it was not the business of the neighbors to care.
I am for animal rights to a degree, I believe that some animals were put here for human consumption, and that is that. Excessive cruellty to animals is despicable in my book. But for human consumption is not animal cruelty at all to me. Only if the animal was treated poorly before they were slaughtered.
mom2my2cuties replied: We raised and slaughtered animals for food growing up - it was heartbreaking as a kid to see your beloved pets go for slaughter - but they sure tasted good. (Ok that was morbid but you get the idea)
I think it's perfectly fine - I get really ticked off at the so called "animal rights activists" who get so wrapped up in protecting animals they forget that farm type animals were created for our food. And if you don't like it, my thought is, don't watch.
To me it's no different that going deer hunting, boar hunting (my favorite to do ) and that sort of thing.
I don't know - I grew up in the country - and this was just a way of life for us.
Now all that being said - there is a right and wrong way to do any task. And if the animal was in unneccessary pain etc...that is wrong. I love animals and think that as living beings they should be cared for - but some animals are specifically breed to be food. And I for one AM NOT a fan of soy or it's by products.
ETA - I do know some people (friends of my parents when I was growing up) well we were visiting after my dad died - and while we were there - they slaughtered a hog - and cut it up on thier front porch (and then expected me to eat it that night for dinner) and it was just a horrific scene and they lived on the main stretch in thier town and so everyone driving by saw this going on as they lived maybe 300 feet from the street. I wish someone would have stopped him because I remember my little sister having nightmares for a long time afterwards about this.
Adrienne522 replied: Wow, they really jumped to conclusions. I cannot believe that the issue wasn't investigated more either. The man bought the pig for the purpose of feeding his family right? So, he is in jail for wanting to feed his family?
TANNER'S MOM replied: He shot him humanly.
We raise cattle to butcher for ourselves..and have raised hogs. To me the meat is more tender and taste better. I feel like I know what has been feed to them. But we usually take ours to the butcher b/c I like my meat cured. It's less traumatizing for the kids and Randy..(he is worse than then the kids) if we take them off besides doing it themselves.
cameragirl21 replied: Oy, I probably should just stay out of this one. Ok, I'm a diehard animals rights activist and strict vegetarian so simply put--if you harm any animal, i don't care if it's a hog, an iguana, an octopus or a fuzzy kitten in my presence, you will live to regret it. If you want pork, go to the butcher shop, there's no shortage of meat here in the USA. The difference is that there are govt regulations regarding the humane treatment of animals in slaughterhouses and groups like PETA make sure these things are enforced, although I'm sure rules are bent and broken daily. However, if you buy your own hog and slaughter it yourself, you are not necessarily going to follow these regulations and that's where the charge of animal cruelty comes into play. I know I may ruffle some feathers in saying this but if it were up to me, people like that hog butcher would be locked up never to see the light of day again. Incidentally, I'm also against hunting and fishing too and think they should both be outlawed. JMO but you asked for opinions so I answered....
TheOaf66 replied: if it is his, and that is the purpose he bought it for than no he did nothing wrong, that would be like calling the cops on a farmer for slaughtering a cow for beef or getting milk. There has to be common sense...if someone is starving a dog or kicking it all over the place...sure cruelty. More than likely it was some vegetarian or something that doesn't eat meat because it kills animals but still has a leather jacket that they love...double standards.
amynicole21 replied: Are there laws about doing it on personal property or something? I can't imagine the police would hold him unless there was really a case for it... though I am sure stranger things have happened
mom2my2cuties replied: As long as there wasn't unneccessary harm in the slaugther and it is done privately - I believe others should simply mind thier own business.
People butting into others lives is the majority of the reason there are some of the problems there are in this country.
I agree with Troy (God it's scary how much I have been saying that lately) - Anyway - it was probably someone with a stick up thier butt about animal rights and who can't bother the thought of eating an animal but yet use all kinds of Animal tested products, leather coats, etc. And doesn't bother to think about HUMAN rights in the process - this man has the right to cut his own meat the way he and his family choose. It has been the way of life in rural America since the dawn of this country.
I really hope the justice system in your area sees through the nonsense and does what is correct.
ETA - I don't mean what I said badly because I believe that animals should be treated with dignity - but the simple fact is - some animals were breed for food. Personally I believe I would rather send the meat off to a butcher. (We did this as a kid - sorry if my earlier post was confusing - because after naming them - we just couldn't do the other ourselves.) We would buy them as babies and raise them to full grown feeding them a strict diet so as not to allow "crap" to be put into our bodies because my dad was battling cancer and had to be careful what hormones and stuff was in the food.
holley79 replied: I was brought up on "fresh meat" and I'm sorry but there is nothing wrong with buying your own hog or cow to slaughter to feed your family. I would rather have a hog/ cow that was raised and fed correctly then "beefed" up on something else. I personally think "farm raised" is better then industrial. They should never have placed him in jail. Now if they have proof he tortured the hog prior to slaughter then by all means but I seriously doubt it. ![dry.gif](http://forums.parentingclub.com/html/emoticons/dry.gif)
jennifer you are right but because the industry "beefs" up their meats I would much rather raise my own and slaughter then by from the "butcher shop" JMO though.
coasterqueen replied: We buy all of our meat from an organic farmer and wouldn't have it any other way anymore. I can't believe we didn't do it sooner. My co-worker raises cattle to butcher to feed their family.
I really don't see anything wrong with it. We get eggs from chickens, we get milk from goats/cows, why does anyone have a problem with this? I think people seriously forget where their meat comes from.
CantWait replied:
I couldn't agree more. Buying your hog is probably less exspensive then purchasing meat from a grocery store. I don't like the thought of killing animals regardless, I don't see how there could be a humane way of doing it without pumping an animal up full of chemicals, but the fact is, for the consumption of meat, it's got to be done.
TheOaf66 replied: Smart people do
holley79 replied: DH has friends who raise cattle and hogs. We save, on average each year, about 100 to 150 by purchasing meat from him. All of his cattle, hogs and chicken are feed strictly corn, hay, etc so there aren't any added steriods or anything like that. I think the meat tastes better and it's not chock full of crap.
coasterqueen replied: Marie, there are actually humane ways of killing an animal and are at least law here in our state..that I'm aware of.
cameragirl21 replied: there is no question that the meat industry pumps animals up full of steroids, hormones and other crap that no one should eat and that buy free range is smarter. And I'm not saying everyone should just go vegetarian because this is a very personal choice that each person should make on his/her own if this feels right to him/her. However, here is my issue--when you slaughter an animal in front of your family, at home, in front of children, be it humane or not, it desensitizes society (namely the children) and they lose their sense of that animal's being a living thing. This little piggy didn't want to go to slaughter, and that is something that the kids don't realize when they see daddy doing it right before their eyes. Bear in mind that I'm an extreme left winger and it seems that most people here lean to the right but the way I see it, yes, there is no question things go on that I may not like, such as the killing of animals for meat and other things but if I bring it home and do it in front of children they have no concept that mistreating an animal or any living thing is wrong. Incidentally, I don't wear leather coats or fur coats and when I went to buy my car, which is considered somewhat of a luxury car (acura) and therefore typically comes with custom leather seats, I insisted I wouldn't buy any car with leather seats. So they had to hunt down my car in another city and import it in otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. So no, I'm no hypocrite.
jcc64 replied: I think I would need to know ALL the facts before weighing in. Simply taking an animal's life for consumption is not in and of itself a punishable offense, as far as I know. I have to question the details of the slaughter- was it done inhumanely- was there something blatantly atrocious that occurred that resulted in a charge of animal cruelty and a stay in jail? I must admit, I am not well versed in the finer points of animal cruelty laws, except to say I have been aware of some pretty heinous abuse cases where the offender got off with a slap on the wrist. My impression has always been that the laws created to protect against cruelty are pretty weak, to say the least. So I have to wonder what exactly took place with that hog. If he simply shot him and he died a quick and relatively humane death, I would be at a loss as to why that would be considered a punishable offense. Maybe there was more to it than the public has been made aware.
Having said all of that, I used to be a vegetarian. I used to feel genuine hostility towards the act of sport hunting, and felt the only way to avoid total hypocrasy was to completely cut meat out of my diet. That lasted 4 or 5 yrs until I got pg with Alec, at which point I craved nothing but meat- if they made meat ice cream, I would have devoured it. I have since reformed my views about hunting and hunters, and I have to say- any and every meat eater should be obligated on some level to acknowledge the life he has taken to eat. I still have no respect for people who hunt and don't take the meat, or waste most of it. But if you are hunting for food, or raising animals for food, I respect the authenticity of your choice. Everyone should see the animal before it gets neatly packaged up and no longer recognizable as something that was once alive. Finally, I can guarantee it that the quality of any farm or wild animal's life is infinitely better than any factory raised and slaughtered animal. We need ALOT of reform in this area, not just for moral reasons, but for the safety of our food supply as well.
amynicole21 replied: Usually, animal cruelty punishments are a fine and therapy.
Kaitlin'smom replied: I have no problme if he did it right, and it was for food. I do have a problem with "showing" the world the slaughter. Heck we are tirng to talk MIL into pig/hog to raise for the meat, the cow's meat was sooo good and since I know them I know it was hand fed and no chemicals. Heck I even helped feed it.
I live in the city and when a neighbor hung the skin of a deer in his yard, yes I was appaled and was deffinalty NOT something I wanted my daughter to see, had he left it up longer I would have called someone. However it I guess was only there for a few hours, unfortunally I had to see it. NOT something I would have ever expceted to see in the neighborhood, country YES city NO.
holley79 replied: I'm sure that if it had been up longer you could have just talked to him and not had to get the authorities involved.
The person who called on the hog slaughter is probably a city transplant and will need to get use to the fact they are in the country now and things are done differently. I am still at a lose as to why they hooked and booken him though. I wonder if they know more to the story.
TANNER'S MOM replied: Well I grew up on a farm.. and I will say that I love animals. If I didn't love animals and I didn't believe in treating them right I wouldn't have as many strays from horses that were abused and not fed to chickens that are the neighbors but come to my house to eat b/c they don't feed them. Bottle feed kittens and puppies..goats have all been in my life and the life of my kids.
I think what would be desentizing to children more than raising an animal to butcher at home is them goign to the store to buy it and not having any idea where it came from. I think if my children have a right to know what they eating and where it came from. They aren't raised to think of them as pets. We have pets but they can't all be pets.
I think everyone feels differently about this and alot of it will have to do with culture and where you are from. The midwest and the south will be more used to it.. poorer states also. More people will raise meat b/c they can't afford to purchase from the store. Just think of the over head mark up. When you buy from the store.. you are paying the farmer who raised it, the trucker who hauled it, the sale barn who sold it, the butcher who killed it and then finally the store who is selling it. So, just think of the amount you save. Now for a small family that may not matter but for a family of 6 it does.
And I think a human way to die as a hog..not a little piggy a hog.. a huge animal who is agreesive at a times. And this goes for any animal really is fast and painless. No drawn out death for anything is humane. Whether it's a squirell or a hog, or horse. We have always done that the most humane way possible. Which for us, has been a quick bullet to the head. I know it sounds awful but it's what is easy.
BTW I have never lined my kids up and said today is butcher day.. go to the barn we are gonna eat Wilbur. They know where our meat comes from at times and they know what the animals are for.
Now that being said.. it all changes. We have a little bull right now.. His name is Supper..he was gonna be a Steer and be for supper. We put him up in the feed lot by the house and raised him there. Heck Tanner used to ride him. But after he got big.. which he is now a full grown breeding bull..Dh got attached to him and he couldn't eat him. He would brag about how pretty he was, he good he could buck etc. I knew then that Supper might have a life in the rodeo but not in our bellies.. and I was right. Now I say no more raised by the house..cause I can't trust Dh ..he is worse than the kids. They say we should've ate him everytime they have to go out and he chases them across the pasture.
mom2my2cuties replied: Once - with a set of our pigs (they were the first set we had) my sister and I named them Pig and Oink - and while we knew the whole time they were supposed to be for slaughter - we took care of them, bathed them, hand fed them etc....
When it came time to slaughter them - we were great with it - (We both LOVE fresh ham) guy at the slaughter house saw they had name tags on them and would come up to him to be petted and loved on. And couldn't do it. So they became his pets and we got the equal amounts of pork from less spoiled hogs
TANNER'S MOM replied: In the city limits it's illelegal to hang a deer here. Of course I live so country that we see alot of deer hanging. I don't like seeing it myself either. But I do like eating it.
They are saying on the news that they booked him due to the fact there were so many complaints. They are going thru statue's now to see if it's he can legally butcher where he lives. Not sure if he was in the city limits or not. THey said outskirts of town.. but with the the new 911 we have he may have been in the city limits.
mom2my2cuties replied: He may not have even realized that the new 911 stuff changes city limit lines - I do hope things work out for him and his family.
cameragirl21 replied: Mel, I'm not saying you don't like animals, I'm sure that you do. I remember you showing off the kitten you were bottle feeding and I've done the same thing so I know it's a lot of work and would never be attempted by someone who doesn't like animals. The thing is that I am a vegetarian so it's pretty obvious what my thoughts on something like this would be. And I guess this sort of struck a nerve with me because I am constantly hearing about cases of animal abuse and tbh I don't think the punishments for this are nearly harsh enough. Some years back two boys broke into an animal shelter after hours and beat 23 cats to death with baseball bats and they barely got a slap on the wrist! I find that appalling to put it nicely. Those boys are lucky that I wasn't the judge on that case because if I were they'd spend their entire youth in jail. And it's not just about the animals...when kids engage in these sorts of behaviors it indicates a psychosis that will eventually be turned on people. Every psychopath/serial killer has a history of abusing animals as a child...in fact, animal abuse as a child is considered a warning sign of what will grow into a serial killer. Now I realize that shooting a hog in the head to eat is a far cry from beating 23 cats to death and I'm not trying to equate the two but I have serious issues with the way animal abuse is just considered a petty crime in our society and I guess it all just came out when you posted that. I'm sure that you as a mother of 2 boys and an animal lover would agree that when a boy beats cats to death and goes so far out of his way as to break into a shelter after hours (it's not as if the cats were feral and attacked them) you agree that it's a serious problem and should be punished accordingly.
coasterqueen replied: Di,
I just wanted to clarify something for you. Even though an animal is hand-fed doesn't mean they are fed chemical free. If they are being fed grains and such that were biologically altered and grown (like corn for instance) then it's not chemical free. They would have to eat feed that is organically grown (i.e. meaning no biologically altered seeds, no chemicals, pesticides, etc used). I only say this because my co-worker's husband is a farmer, they also raise cattle for meat and she's mentioned that their beef is natural/organic, but it's not because they feed it corn grain, etc, which is what he plants and he buys biologically altered seed and uses pesticides on his crops.
It's still better than getting meat from a farmer who injects growth hormones and such into their cattle.
cameragirl21 replied: Karen, while I do buy organic and support organic farming and buy my milk and eggs organic, I also wanted to point out that organic farming is what led to the spinach e coli outbreak. Organic gardener use animal crap instead of chemical fertilizer and the crap ended up seeping into the produce. Again, not trying to disagree with you or put down organic farming but I came to realize from this spinach fiasco that there are problems with organic also. Not to mention I miss eating spinach.
TANNER'S MOM replied: Well to me one has nothing to do with another.
But as a mother of 2 boys.. I would die if my boys did that. But with their country up bringing..they are raised better than that. On our small farm.. the animals are taken care of before the people. B/c they can't take care of themselves. When my kids came home from school the first thing that is done is chores. Hay, and feed the cows and horses, and dogs. If any doctoring needs to be done it's done before we ever go in the house. My kids have learned that lesson along time ago. We have horses that we use for many different reasons..and they were taught that they respect that horse and it will respect them..some of the first lesson my farm kids every learned was how to treat an animal.
Now beating 23 cats to death.. is crazy. It should have been 23 counts of abuse I totally agree.
We had a case here where a man was trying to teach a horse to lead and it wouldn't..he dragged it death behind his pickup truck. He got 5 years in the pen. My thought were personally that I wanted to drag him behind the truck! Since thats not legal I was glad all his animals were taken away and that he was given jail time.
I guess the point I want to make is.. that even though we eat meat, raise our meat, etc..we do treat our animals with respect...they are often treated better than I am..lol They eat better some days and get more babying..but thats what they are for. THey work for me..and I work for the them is the best way to put it.
mom2my2cuties replied: I thought this too -
The kids did that out of pure meanness and a deep rooted evil
What this man did was absolutely innocent - he was feeding his family.
5littleladies replied: I am really amazed at this post. I cannot believe how much society has changed. For homeschool my girls and I are doing a unit study utilizing the Little House on the Prairie books and you know what? They hunt their own food. Pa shoots animals in the wood and they eat them. Mary and Laura (ages 6 and 8 I believe) helped with butchering and I don't think they suffered any adverse effects from it. Everyone lived that way. I don't understand how society has come to the conclusion over the past 150 years or so, that killing animals for food is so cruel and inhumane. And I don't understand shielding children from the fact that meat comes from animals. My girls know and they understand that it is a part of life.
TANNER'S MOM replied: That's kind of my point I think. I think culture and society have made these rules. Our grandparents grew their own food..a nd it's was normal..but now suddenly for our kids it is cruel.
I don't mean this to sound bad..but you take me and a country girl from Arkansas who grew up hunting and fishing. Not for trophy but to eat. We never had tons of money..always was taught not to kill what you would waste whether it was a fish or a deer. Squirel, My husband likes to eat it.. I refused to cook it so we don't hunt squirel. But we are in the country and life is slower.
We went to Missisippi recently and while driving we saw tons of cotton buy my husband noticed they were no cows. The big field we would have made pasture is cotton, raise , soybeans but no cattle.
You take someone from New York City, they have no way to grow meat, no way to really see how things are done on a farm hands on. Most people who are born and raised there have never touched a cow or calf. Never had to wean a Momma cow and see how mean she can get. Never slopped hogs before school will feel completely different then my kids who have to do this daily or have done daily.
I think culture and where are you from makes a big difference in what you think as a normal way to get food. Nothing is wrong with disaggreeing at all..as along as we are respectful. Which we have been.
cameragirl21 replied: To be fair, Tanner's mom and 4littleladies, of course a lot has changed in 150 years. I don't mean to disrespect either of you but consider that 150 years ago, blacks were segregated from whites and women weren't allowed to vote and no one thought it was wrong, cruel, or inhumane. As time goes by, we hopefully evolve and as a society, we are starting to turn more towards vegetarianism, tree hugging, etc, we are definitely becoming more liberal. Now I'm sure this isn't the case in the country but I think what happens is that major population centers vote for the entire state, per the electoral college so NYC speaks for all of NY and Chicago speaks for all of IL and as a result we start to have laws and policies that lean to the left and question the way things have always been done. I will never agree with killing an animal for food but I will never expect you or anyone to go vegetarian unless it's what you want for yourself. But as long as these sorts of debates and dissent take place, laws and traditions will be questioned and laws and societal thinking will change and evolve which is what leads people in the country to report a man for slaughtering a pig when 150 years ago everyone was probably doing it.
jcc64 replied: I agree with Mel and the others that beating 23 cats to death for "amusement" has absolutely nothing to do with slaughtering animals for consumption. It sounds as if this guy ran afoul of laws trying to contain the more gruesome parts of animal farming to the parts of town that are less populated.
5littleladies replied: Yes you are absolutely right-Many things have changed over the past 150 years for the better. However, I would personally say that many things have changed that are NOT for the better. The "evolution" of a society over time is not always a good thing IMO.
cameragirl21 replied: I agree, Jennifer (4littleladies), that change is not always for the better but the point I was trying to make is that of course things have changed in the last 150 years and this animal issue is just one of those things. For me as a vegetarian, obviously it's a change for the better, for someone who hunts as a hobby, then it's a change for the worse. But as a society, we are always evolving and that means that you can't use the fact that it was done this way on Little House on the Prairie as an excuse to get away with it today if it's against the law.
TANNER'S MOM replied: Holy Moly! Now this is crazy..because I think that hunting food is normal where I am from.. I am suddenly wanting to take us back 150 years to racial segeration, and where a woman can't vote. Please one has nothing to do with another, just as feeding your family has nothing to do with beating 23 cats..and I am sure if we look hard enough we can make this a religiousl issue too.
I think you are reaching a bit here.
cameragirl21 replied: Mel, I wasn't saying that one has anything to do with the other. It's just that 4littleladies said she can't believe how much as changed in 150 years and I was just pointing out just how much had. There is no reason for anyone to get upset or offended, the majority sided with you, I was just stating my thoughts because you asked us to state our thoughts, that's all.
coasterqueen replied: I did not hear that. Interesting. I am not trying to pretend there isn't issues with organic farming, because I'm sure there is. I just wanted to point out a fact to Di.
skinkybaby replied: I agree. Comparing this with someone killing cats is a stretch. And so is saying that its wrong because 150 years ago people also had slaves. It has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.
mom2my2cuties replied: Yeah Karen - it was the Sunnyfarms Organic place they showed on the news I have tossed everything that came from there that we had just to be sure after I saw it on the local news.
coasterqueen replied: Jennifer,
I am curious since you are against killing animals in general, for food or otherwise, what is your position on killing insects, bugs, spiders and such?
punkeemunkee'smom replied: Mel~ I think the fact that he is sitting in jail waiting to find out if city limits have been altered by 911 is INSANE! He was feeding his family for crying out loud! As some of you know my DH hauls cattle for a living. Many of the cattle we haul are going for slaughter (delivered to the packing plants) and most of the rest are going to feedlots to be slaughtered later (after they have been fed and gained weight) To say that
ITA! Don't even really get why that was brought up in the first place! Not at all what the post was about....
cameragirl21 replied: well, Karen, we do have plenty of cockroaches and mosquitos here in FL and I can't say I like them too much. I kill insects if I find them in my house but if I find a spider or a lizard or a millipede, I catch it and let it outside. Cockroaches I do kill and personally I think Noah should have kicked them off the ark. But if I see insects outside I don't kill them, ever. And I raise caterpillars to butterflies and I have my butterfly host plants by my koi pond so frogs come and try to eat the caterpillars and I try to stop them. Lol, here's a funny story though--when I was little I was visiting my grandmothers who lived in a retirement home, each in their own apartment. I would go back and forth with regard to whose apartment I'd sleep in if I stayed overnight. Anyway, one night when I was sleeping over, my other grandmother (not the one whose apartment I was sleeping in) called me and was frantic that there was a bug in her bedroom and she wanted me to catch it. So I came over and it was one HUGE black bug and when I approached it started to fly around. Anyway, I didn't want to kill it so my grandma brought me an empty cool whip container and I somehow managed to get the bug into the container...then we put the container in the garbage. I remember telling my parents the story and telling them that I hope the bug can find a way to push her way out of the container, like using her many legs to push up against the lid of the jar to open it up. I said that I hoped it was a female so she could have babies and they'd all help her push her way open and get out. LOL, I couldn't understand then why my parents were so amused by this but in retrospect....
5littleladies replied: Wow-That was a little harsh don't you think? I was simply using that as an example since it is one of the things I am using to teach my children. I'm not saying we should break the law because something was done differently a century ago and I certainly don't need the changes in society pointed out to me-I do have eyes. I will say that if the man in the original post did indeed break the law, than the law needs to be changed. Again, just my opinion!
amynicole21 replied: I actually agree that A LOT has changed in 150 years. Slaughtering was done out of necessity back then - like pooping in an outhouse and making your own candles. Doesn't make it wrong to do it now, but there really isn't much of a comparison to today...
cameragirl21 replied: Jennifer (4littleladies), I didn't mean to be harsh at all and if I came off that way and hurt your feelings or simply sounded harsh I am really sorry. I tend to be very straight forward and direct and tend to get right to the point and sometimes what I say is taken as harsh or too direct when I really didn't mean it that way. I'm very sorry if what I said upset you in any way because I didn't mean it that way at all.
mom2my2cuties replied: Awww man - You mean since I make my own candles I am 150 years out of style
And oddly enough - my mother still has an outhouse on thier farm
gr33n3y3z replied: I see nothing wrong with killing what you raise to put food on your table I could never kill a cow I would take it to a place to do it for me lol
Crystalina replied: There has to be more to this guys story then simply slaughtering a hog. Especially if he's in an area (as you say) where it is done alot. We pick out our own hogs and beef and take them to a butcher but I've seen hogs killed and it isn't pretty. It's not something you want to do where the neighbors can see you for God's sake. Yea, you can put a bullet in their head, which is very common, but a hog is hard headed and I mean that literally. If the bullet is not placed in the right spot that hog ain't dying. I've seen men walk away and let one die slowly and then they still have to shoot him again because the darn hog isn't dying. Maybe this was the case. Maybe he was inexperienced. If you don't know where or how it will seem like your torturing the animal and you pretty much are. I would say either that is what happend or he was doing it where he shouldn't be. I would not want my kids to see that and if I were his neighbor I'd probably call the cops as well. If you're going to do it then know what you're doing and know where you can do it.
KUP on this. I'm curiouse what he did.
My2Beauties replied: I really think this is going downhill towards the bottom of pg 2. I really don't think that the 150 year ago remark was meant to offend anyone, I think she was simply stating that yes we have evolved and just because it was the norm 150 years ago, it's not the norm today because we as people have evolved and have started questioning the way animals are killed for comsumption. I, too, think it really is totally different from slavery and what not but she was just trying to say that yes we have evolved and animal cruelty is looked at differently today.
I eat meat, lately very rarely. I'm leaning more and more towards a vegetarian diet pretty much everyday. I eat hamburgers every now and then and I will eat steak every now and then but other than that I really eat mostly soups and veggies and sweets, but by no means do I want to actually see the animal being killed, just thinking about it makes me sick to my stomach honestly this is why I am not eating it much lately, my best friend is a vegetarian and has told me some horrible things! LOL! I do not think there is anything wrong with a man owning his own animals to be slaughtered and actually slaughtering them but seriously this is something I would not have wanted to see - at all. Period. And had my child saw it, I would have high tailed my own butt over there and told him where he could and could not kill his animals because it personally disgusts me to see someone hacking an animal up. I think this is the reason why they probably called. Never in a million years could I fathom shooting an animal in the head, to me it's like shooting a human being. So I think these people who called on him had a right to, he needs to know that he should do that in private maybe in a barn or the back of his house where neighbors can't see it - now everyone go ahead and flame me! I'm sorry it's just the way I feel!
Boo&BugsMom replied: I would think it would be common sense that beating an animal out of malice is totally different than killing an animal humanely to survive. You don't have to agree with either one, but they are still factually different.
I have always joked about how I could totally become a vegetarian. I love my fruits and veggies and pasta and rice too much and I don't care for red meat. In fact, I could never go and pick out my own cow or pig to slaughter either because I would feel too remorseful. But, that is just me. I would never expect anyone else to feel that pathetic over eating something after they've picked it out. Hubby hunts and I support it. He is trying to help his family to survive by hunting for meat.
You have to remember, back in "the day" they didn't have grocery markets and such. Everything was hunted by each family. Man, even people have slaughtered animals in honor of God back in Biblical times.
This man was not being malicious. I do not put this in the same category, or even remotely close to the same category, as animal cruelty. Had he kicked the hog and beat him before being put to death, then he'd be in hot water with me!
ETA: the man probably shot the hog in the head because it is the fastest way to let the animal down without suffering, which in my opinion, shows more respect for that animal's life. Would it freak me out if I saw it? Heck yeah! I can't take the sight of animal's dying. But, I would have probably just asked him to forwarn me next time it happens so I wouldn't get wigged out. He's within his rights unless there are any laws that state he can't.
C&K*s Mommie replied: I did not know about hogs being hard headed, Crystal.
Crystalina replied: Yes they are Nicole, kind of like men.
I've always been known to shoot hogs with a 22-cal rifle. Use hollow point rounds because they bring the hog down quicker and without suffering to the animal. They all have hard skulls but the wild hog has a harder head and a hard shell around the front shoulders. You just have to do it the right way or the animal will suffer. I'm sure he didn't buy a wild hog but either way he should know what he's doing before doing it. Not saying this is what he was arrested for though but with the potential animal cruelty charge I can't imagine what else it would be.
luvmykids replied: LMBO we have a VERY similar story and to make it short, DH bought him in order to be a sponsor for a fundraiser. He was staying at our house until the raffle drawing. The day came that the winner came to take him to the slaughter house and I fell apart, long story short I made DH buy him back. So we had a bull we paid for twice LOL. And got no food out of it, just an escape artist that ended up costing us a lot of money in fines when he kept crossing from our land to BLM land.
TANNER'S MOM replied: Yes this has happened a few times. There are some that show some personality and some that are just cattle.. you know.
The same with a hog we had. Randy could go out and he would talk to him .. he would tell him .. It's not me that wants to eat you..,It;s her..meaning me. ANd I would go out there and feed him and say PIG PIG and he wouldn't answer..Randy was convinced he knew what I was about..lol Well he got up to like almost 800lbs which is Huge and he wanted to bite..so finally Randy said I will take him to the slaughterhouse..so off Wilbur went.. and Randy called me and he said Darn it Mel they shot him infront me.. are you happy.. I said just bring home the bacon baby. He gets alot more attached than I do..but you know how those cowboys are. Now my horses are a different story!
punkeemunkee'smom replied:
You just ain't right!
I had a bull calf once-his name was Thunder. I fed him a bottle since the day he was born. I could call him out of the herd and he would follow me around with his head on my booty like I was his momma. Thunder got big and his playful bumps turned into hits that could and did knock me flat on my butt...He got horns and was not my little baby anymore...because he was so used to me we had to sell him It broke my heart-I cried for days BUT I also understood that such is life on the farm. I know Thunder probably ended up as somebody's supper but whenever I see a hereford bull out in a pasture I pretend that it just might be him and maybe he escaped becoming a burger The fact od the matter is that just because we eat meat and just because this man slaughtered a pig (HIS pig on HIS land) does not mean we are heartless animal abusing creeps. We were given authority over the animals not the other way around......
holley79 replied: Being a "country" gal I saw plenty of farm raised animals slaughtered. It was a part of life for us growing up. It was cheaper to feed everyone this way, still is. I do remember my grandpa giving my cousins "the talk" on how to take down a hog and how hard headed it was. Unfortunately I learned about this early on. I wasn't scarred though. I have raised animals my entire life from a little ole turtle, who I thought lost his mother and needed one to a 17.3 hand Trekkaner. I have seen animals slaughtered for food and seen animals lost to illness/ injury. I am not demented or a serial killer. I think children have a right to know where their food comes from. I also feel when you turn on the TV you seem more blood and gore then you would in a slaughter house. JMO
cameragirl21 replied: oh God I really shouldn't have brought the psychology stuff into this. Holley, I never said you or anyone else is a serial killer. The animal cruelty as a sign of a serial killer is what they taught us when I was getting my degree in psychology, it has nothing to do with farm slaughter or anything like that. Mel asked for opinions and just as I stated in my first post, I probably should have just stayed out of this one because it's a topic I'm very passionate about. I never meant to say or imply that anyone here is a serial killer or an advocate of slavery or anything like that.
Cece00 replied: Unless he was TRULY torturing the animal, I think its absurd that he is in jail.
holley79 replied: I was just mainly stated that just because a child is brought up around slaughtering does not mean the child will be demented or have lasting effects from it.
As for the psycology/ animal abuse. Working for the SO and also taking psycology, yes that is a sign. But with that being said, I think a lot of this topic got off track by comparing apples and oranges.
cameragirl21 replied: I know I really should just let this go but Holley, this may seem like apples and oranges to you but to a member of PETA for example, slaughtering a farm animal to eat and beating a cat to death with a baseball bat are one and the same. Doesn't mean that you have to agree with a PETA member but the point I was trying to make is that just because animal slaughter on a farm is commonplace to you doesn't mean it is this way with everyone which is exactly why the cops were called and why that guy was hauled off to jail. It's not a black and white issue and it's not necessarily apples and oranges. If one of my neighbors started to slaughter an animal out in his yard I'd make sure his butt was in jail too.
kimberley replied: that is ridiculous imo. men can murder their wives and unborn children and get tapped on the wrist but this guy bought a pig to eat on HIS property and he is in jail??? something a little screwy with the world today imho.
i think too many people and their politically correct views somehow have forgotten that everyone has freedom of choice, whether we agree with them or not. have a bit of respect.
My3LilMonkeys replied: Personally, I think it's crazy that he's in jail. As long as he did it humanely and on his own property I don't see what the big deal is.
I watched and participated in the killing of many animals that we raised for food as a child and it had no ill effects on me. I'd rather my children know where their food comes from.
punkeemunkee'smom replied: Why??? Why would you want him in jail? Is it because you feel that the slaughter of animals is wrong? What makes your activisim any more legit than his desire to feed his family? I find it rather interesting that when lines are drawn no matter how tolerant we all claim to be-the truth still remains that in our own minds at least we are right in the end
cameragirl21 replied: well, abbie, for starters, he's breaking the law. and for finishers, he's harming the life of an innocent living thing. I used to live next door to a cop who was such an animal lover that I'd not put it past her to whip out her weapon and turn on someone slaughtering an animal in his yard. obviously you and I will never see eye to eye on this Abbie but just as you defend your right to slaughter an animal, I will defend an animal's right not to be slaugtered.
mom2my2cuties replied: I agree with Abbie on this one -
If someone is doing something on thier property that is LEGAL no one needs to stick thier nose into it. That is the problem - people just don't know when to butt out and mind thier own beeswax - because if they would - they would solve thier own issues instead of screwing up thier own life while trying to "save" the world.
ETA - And on another note - Animal Slaughtering IS NOT illegal. I have a feeling that this neighbor just wanted to raise a stink - and because he knows the traditions of this family knew what time to do so.
punkeemunkee'smom replied:
WOW!!! I do not even know where to begin on how disturbing that statement is.....we are talking an animal and you are talking a human life!!! Yeah ummmm I am just gonna leave the rest of that alone....
cameragirl21 replied: She was a cop and those were her opinions, Abbie, I don't know why it would shock you that not everyone in the world thinks like you. I used to go to a doctor whose office was out in the sticks and she was a typical country gal and a country doc. She had a bumper sticker up on her walls that said, "abuse an animal, go to jail." nuff said....
amynicole21 replied: I really don't think that slaughtering an animal on your property is necessarily legal depending on where you live. Obviously, this guy lived close enough to others that it wasn't out in the sticks. If someone came into my community and started hacking up a pig, I think there would absolutely be some laws being broken. Also, just because it's YOUR property doesn't mean you can do whatever the heck you want to on that property. In Florida it is illegal to shoot a weapon within so many feet of another residence unless you are using it for self defense. You can't just go hunting wherever you want either. I think that slaughtering a pig has got to have some regulations if these things are worthy of a law.
mom2my2cuties replied: I completely agree with some of your points...But the MAJORITY of people slaughter an animal either in thier kitchen or in a barn with tables so they have place available. (Dad used to do our deer this way and our chicken and our turkeys)
cameragirl21 replied: Thank you, Amy, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way. What if someone started beating the crap out of their kid or their maid or whatever on their property? should i just butt out just because it's on their property? You have two really cute girls btw, I would love to take their picture, too bad you don't live closer. Take care.
punkeemunkee'smom replied: NOBODY said that abuse of an animal is ok...I do not think it is and nobody else on here has said it is OK either. I am not shocked that people think differently than I do,I have been on this board for a long time I have people on here I am proud to consider friends that have very different views than I do....I was more disturbed by your assertion that a law enforcement officer would be willing to use deadly force on someone slaughtering an animal for food comsupmtion in their front yard...The OP was NOT about animal abuse it was about a man feeding his family by butchering a hog. I think many people here are equating this with your nextdoor nieghbor in a neighborhood setting doing something like this-please move this,in your mind, to a more rual area....Animal abuse is wrong-you will be hard pressed to find a farmer,rancher or cowboy who would not hotly defend their horse,cattle,or dogs. But because they also butcher an animal -many with thanks for the meat-does not make an animal abusing future sociopath.....
ashtonsmama replied: That was my thinking... I'm not into watching people kills animals in the backyard, but in that situation, I'd say he probably doesn't deserve any time!
ashtonsmama replied: Um, Jennifer? I think that we are all entitled to our own opinions, not just on this, but on any matter. That seems to be forgotten alot of the time lately. Play nice!
luvmykids replied:
I feel like I know Abbie well enough to confidently say this....it's nothing to do with her assuming everyone thinks like her but the fact that although a law enforcement officer is certainly entitled to maintain their own personal convictions it is quite another story to abuse their position to do so.
cameragirl21 replied: I never said a person who slaughters a pig to eat is a sociopath, Abbie. I simply said that this particular cop that I lived next to would have put that guy's butt in jail and she'd keep him there for as long as she could, these are her beliefs. The law is shady on this because what I consider animal abuse and what you consider animal abuse are obviously very different but the law simply states that animal abuse is illegal. From there, it's up to the cop on the scene to determine if the law was broken or not, then lawyers come in and we all know where it goes from there. I am against animal slaughter, plain and simple. It's just my opinion and you can certainly choose to disagree with it but it doesn't make me wrong and you right, or the other way around. Mel asked for opinions and I gave mine. No neighbor of mine will ever harm an animal and walk away unscathed, and I have a bunch of neighbors who feel the same way so it's not just my opinion. Maybe your neighbors will have the luxury of slaughtering in their yard but mine won't. I don't know if the guy necessarily belongs in jail but he's obviously there for a reason...these are neighbors in a rural area and a bunch complained so obviously I'm not the only one disturbed by this.
mom2my2cuties replied: Why is it I have the feeling that this thread is on it's way to be locked??
Jeez - Play Nice guys...no need in anyone getting nasty or overly worked up over this. And remember - we all have opinions and as my dad would say - they are like armpits and by the end of the day - everyone has 1 or 2 that just downright stink.
cameragirl21 replied: Amanda, Not to sound like a little kid but she started it with me and called my opinions stupid and irresponsible and I just let that one go and didn't even respond so to be fair, I think I have been playing nice. She asked me why I would want my neighbor in jail for animal slaughter and I answered. I know a lot of people who would call the cops on a neighbor who is slaughtering an animal in his yard, I'm sure I'm not the only one.
ashtonsmama replied: Amen. Thank you.
I won't say any more than that.
kimberley replied: guys.. remember that lovely post Jeanne made....
it is important we always respect each other's opinions when debating issues such as these. your opinion may be the only right one for you, but that doesn't mean someone with an opposing opinion needs to be "educated" or "enlightened" repeatedly. if you stop trying to convert people to the way you think, you might actually learn something new. i have learned so much from the numerous topics posted here.
please, let's respect each other. ![hug.gif](http://forums.parentingclub.com/html/emoticons/hug.gif)
eta: i know it is very difficult when we don't "know" some members as well as others, but try to take things posted with a grain of salt. chances are, the person was not in any way trying to offend someone. it is just hard to get a feel for how things are meant online.
mom2my2cuties replied: I didn't think anymore needed to be said.
ashtonsmama replied: Okay-but even the little bit I know Abbie, I would not call say that she called your opinions irresponsible and stupid! I think that may be a tad bit of an exaggeration. Just try to keep things in perspective. I think sometimes you (the general you, me included) just have to say your piece and move on with life.
KWIM?
ashtonsmama replied:
cameragirl21 replied: Amanda, She said as much right here, in her own words. I am not offended or whatever, I'm used to the way people express themselves here an on the net in general so I take these things with a grain of salt but if someone is going to call me as the one not playing nice then I'm just going to point out the facts, that's all.
ashtonsmama replied: Jennifer. I really don't have the time/energy or patience to respond to this over and over, but I'll just say that what Abbie was saying (at least to my ears) was that the STATEMENT you made was irresponsible in her opinion, that's all she really said! So don't turn that around and make it directed at you...
I think the thread is pretty much useless now. Why is it that nothing can be said anymore without being turned into a huge global debate?!? How about we all remember back to what the original question was...Mel was just wondering about something, if I read that correctly.
mom2my2cuties replied: I don't think that was meant as you took it. But it sounded as though she was saying that the mentality of not being able to butcher your meats without having to worry about going to jail is stupid.
Now why don't we just squish this topic and bump others above it so this one dies and it doesn't end up locked like the rest of these kinds of topics. We could show our maturity and quit fighting like Preschoolers. (I think we all get enough of that during the day)
punkeemunkee'smom replied:
You do know me well enough and you are correct!
ashtonsmama replied: *Moving On*
(Whistles as she goes to do the laundry)
cameragirl21 replied: ok, this is finished as far as my involvement goes. I've stated my opinions and I'm not here to convert anyone. If I hurt anyone's feelings I apologize as that was not my intention at all.
Crystalina replied: Back to the original post.... I think the whole animal cruelty came into play because this is what the guy was supposedly charged with. I'm not sure if there are any laws saying not to butcher in the city limits but he was obviously out of bounds if his neighbors had full veiw of him. Maybe we should all come back when we get more facts. It's pretty vague right now as to what happend. I can't see anyone getting tossed in the can and charged with animal cruelty if he was on the up and up. And btw, for anyone wanting to know why the thread goes awry it's because people nit-pick with everyone else.
A&A'smommy replied: I PERSONALLY do not think that was wrong!!! Its not like he tortured it or anything and its meat I truly believe most animals were created for us to eat, although I may not eat a lot of meats like pig or beef I don't think its wrong for anyone else too... that is just ridiculous!!
coasterqueen replied: I believe Kimberley's post got lost in the mix here so I'm going to repost this hoping that things can stay positive or this thread will be locked!
redchief replied: We have a no livestock ordinance in town, but you can have a livestock animal raised and slaughtered on one of the farms within driving distance. It is a less expensive way to put meat on the table, though we've never done this. This isn't due to any aversion, it's just that buying meat hasn't been as much of a hassle as buying, then arranging the raising and slaughtering of livestock. It's a time thing.
We do catch, kill and eat our own fish, all the time. Living near the water that is a staple of our diet and actually going to a store and buying their version of fresh fish makes me nauseous. The "fish on our table tonight" was literally "swimming this morning." Of course cleaning fish is nowhere near as messy as dressing a larger warm blooded animal after slaughter (with the possible exception of tuna), but I don't see a real big difference, so long as the all of the animal is used.
Hillbilly Housewife replied: Wow.
I am really appalled at the way that some members are jumping on each other's backs and down each other's throats about personal opinions and the difference of them.
I am also appalled at the childish games being played with quoting other posts and adding a 3rd 4th or even 5th pointless agreement.
I can't believe that some of you are STILL acting this way, even after us mods asking nicely for this type of behaviour to be toned down and/or to stop. As you all know, members have been temporarily suspended for repeating offending behaviour after numerous warnings... and one of the next steps from being temporarily suspended is being banned. Please keep this in mind.
This is ridiculous. It's like being back in 9th grade.
I apologize to all members who seem to have been targeted by others, one way or the other.
That aside... bullet to the brain, for a hog, isn't a quick painless way to die, not if you don't know what you're doing. My grandfather used to actually slit the hog's throat, and hang it upside down on the barn doors to bleed out...it was quicker, and the meat wouldn't be tough because of residual blood. And besides... what moron would buy a hog to slaughter without actually knowing what he was doing... so chances are, it wasn't his first time slaughtering a hog. The neighbour probably had more city-like values and abhorred the view. Can't say I blam the neighbour... but at the same time, it's the cycle of life.
As for vegetarians... do they think the plants don't have a life? (jk) My spider plant has babies and when they detach from their momma I "hand-feed" them too...to grow into nice big healthuy adults who have babies of their own...
CantWait replied: Rocky you never cease to amaze me. What a laugh you are......
CantWait replied: ![user posted image](http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/MarieAngela/messofftopica1.gif)
Sorry Rocky, I just had to............
Hillbilly Housewife replied: No problem... seems like anyways...
coasterqueen replied: I think there is something to the fact that it would make sense if the neighbor who called in was city-like people. I say that because at least around here we have more and more city-like people moving into our neck of the woods, building their $500,000+ homes and then act like the rest of us should upkeep our homes and land like they do. They also don't quite understand the concept of country roads; they think that we should drive in the ditch so they can have the full road so they don't mess up their pretty little cars. SO I could see how, at least in our area, the city-type people would FREAK OUT literally if we did something like that.
cameragirl21 replied: i think bottom line, what it comes down to is that attitudes regarding the treatment of animals and nature in general are changing and that is exactly what happened to this guy in the OP--he did what probably would have been perfectly acceptable 50, 20, maybe even 10 years ago but today people are less tolerant of those things. There was a time when animal rights activists and other lefty types wore love beads and looked and acted like what most people would call freaks. but i can tell you that i'm very much a tree hugger, in fact, when i was out of town my neighbor came into my yard and chopped down my beautiful Poinciana tree with its gorgeous red blooms and I cried for days (literally) for that tree. AND when i called the cops they said what he did was illegal and they were willing to take action that would possibly lead to arrest. (here it's illegal to chop down a tree without replacing it with another tree or sapling.) not to mention it was in MY yard, not his, but it was dropping leave into his precious pool, God forbid. anyway, since my parents' cat (who is an outdoor cat) was staying with me at the time b/c they were vacationing, and because he threatened to poison her, i decided to let it go b/c my parents would be heartbroken if something happened to the cat. but back to the point, you all saw my picture and i don't look like a freak (i hope) but i'm just as much of a tree hugger/ animal rights activist as what you would perceive a freak to be. nowadays, more and more people are finding these things unacceptable and that's what happened with this situation and the neighbors calling the cops. the time's they are a changin', plain and simple.
coasterqueen replied: I am locking this thread. It's DONE, it can't be discussed anymore than it already has.
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