It's a REALLY good thing I've been supplementing

Danalana wrote: I went to the lactation consultants today...the ones who worked with me in the hospital. They had me breastfeeding about 15 minutes and then giving formula because he gets SO tired shen he's nursing. He just can't do it well right now. Well, I didn't know how bad it was. Kade is 4 ounces below his birth weight and is 11 days old You've never seen such crying as I did in that office. After she weighed him, she had me nurse him for 15 minutes on one side. He looked like he was doing good, but all he got out was 1/2 ounce...AND he fell asleep because he was tired. We gave him formula and he took almost 4 ounces just fine. Today was 4 days without a bowel movement, but he had 2 HUGE ones after we got back. Poor thing wasn't getting enough, but I thought he was because he was falling asleep (I thought he was satisfied). So I'm aggressively feeding him now...every 3 hours, I'm letting him nurse for about 10 minutes and then giving him expressed breast milk and formula. I'll also be pumping every 3 hours. I am on a board where people bash formula so much, especially this one woman. I WANT to breast feed, and my lactation consultants want me to, as well. But not at the expense of my baby's physical well-being. If the baby goes 3 weeks without gaining appropriately, he is classified as failure to thrive I hate that I can't exclusively breast feed, but I can't right now. Believe me, I have spent much of the day feeling like a failure, but I can't do anything about it. The good thing is that Kade is getting stronger and better at it, and it will be a lot easier for him when I build up my milk supply. I've been so busy and out of it that I was dehydrated myself and not really eating well. Anyway, I'm so glad I was supplementing because I think he would have really been in trouble.

amymom replied: Oh Dana, I am glad you have a good support system, with the consultants and that you are going and learning all you can. You are doing well, and he will be fine. Keep breast feeding and giving the formula. Great job!!!

MoonMama replied: Oh honey! Your doing great and the best that you can. I tried and tried and tried to BF with Braedin but try as I did and everything they told me to do and then some....I just never made enough milk for Braedin, one side almost made NON at all. So I finally had to formula feed him. Take care of yourself, drink lots of water and eat healthy its very important for you to do that, for both of you. I know its hard but hang in there is sounds like things will get better and work out.

Kentuckychick replied: It does sound like you have a great support system and hey, you were doing everything you were supposed to be doing. And you should NEVER feel like a failure because you can't breastfeed exclusively (unfortunately I think the attitude of some breastfeeding advocates can make others feel like failures even though they ARE breastfeeding). Exclusive breastfeeding is great, but Cade is STILL breastfeeding, still getting those good "boobie nutrients" as one of our mom's says from you AND you know he's getting enough now and that's what matters.

You are not alone in this.

Everyone is different and no one's breasts or baby react exactly the same way. You are NOT a failure!

~Roo'sMama~ replied: (((HUGS))) Dana!! He's going to be ok. You're doing a good job! You're right... it probably is a good thing you've gone with your gut and kept supplementing him. I'm glad you went to the LC and got some good advice. There's nothing wrong with giving him formula, and like Kentuckychick said he's still getting the benefits of breast milk even though he's not exclusively breastfeeding - every little bit he gets is good for him. Maybe eventually he'll go to just breast milk, but even if he continues to get both BM and Formula until he weans he will be just fine! Keep up the good work!

mckayleesmom replied: You are doing great hun.....Try not to be hard on yourself.

ZandersMama replied: Oh Dana, you are awsome, don't let anyone tell you differant!

My3LilMonkeys replied: You are doing great! You are doing what is best for Kade and that's the important part.


But make sure you're taking care of yourself too.

luvmykids replied: Hang in there, you're doing GREAT. Don't beat yourself up about it, just take each day as it comes

Sam & Abby's Mom replied: You are in no way a failure! I'm glad you were listening to your Mommy instincts. WTG, Mom!

Teesa®© replied: Awww, I'm so sorry someone felt the need to bash you

Sometimes the things people say, well, you just have to be a duck: let things roll right off of you.

Ducks are waterproof. They have an oily layer that allows their bodies to stay dry in water even when their feathers are wet. So when they're swimming, the water "rolls right off". [in the "What made you choose the name" thread, there was a history lesson from salim_arjumand and now a lesson in the anatomy of a duck! ]

You're strong, hon, and you're doing just fine

Danalana replied: Thanks yall...
I just finished feeding him, and he looks so SWEET when he's full. And boy is he making up for all the dirty diapers he missed over the last 3 or 4 days

Insanemomof3 replied: I am glad to hear that he is eating and that you got some good advice! You are doing a great job, you are not failing him. It takes time and you have to do what is best for you and your baby. Don't let people get to you....people should not bash anyone just because they don't agree...they don't know what happens day to day and only you know your baby's needs.

lovemy2 replied: Let me post what I went through here and I bet there will be some who disagree but I never tried to BF with Olivia = she had horrible tummy problems and I thought for sure if I had BF she wouldn't have so I was determined to BF with Dylan - but it didn't work so well - he was tongue tied - I was inexpierenced, nervous and had no professional support - so I gave up and pumped - for 10 weeks - it was hard but I was determined he would get breast milk and not have the reflux tummy problems Olivia had - but guess what he still had the problems and it had nothing to do with BF - but in the end I felt good about the fact that he had 10 weeks of breast milk and gained weight (I did supplement too) and he is happy, healthy and gaining weight - both my kids are underweight but they gain weight so in the end they are fine - skinny but fine - so Dana do what works for you and Kade - if BF and then supplementing works then go with it - you and Kade know what is working so thats all that matters - my kids both almost fell off the charts but I prevented it by doing what my gut told me to do..............

A&A'smommy replied: your doing great sweetie!!!!

sparkys2boys replied: Dana, keep up the great work! And failing him would be not doing something about it.. which you are. Your are doing the best you can! And don't let other people make you feel bad for doing what works for you and Kade. Every child is so diffrent, so do what works.

amynicole21 replied: Hang in there - any amount of breastmilk is beneficial to baby. You're doing great!

Here are some resources on keeping baby awake when nursing. We had the same issue with Nora.


kellymom.com


askdrsears.com

There are a ton of us who have been through it. Feel free to ask any questions - we're here to support you!

indywndy_04 replied:
Honey - you aren't a failure in anyway shape or form. It is all trial and error with raising kids. You are doing great! Believe me! You are doing great!! He will get the hang of it, just let him get a little stronger. Don't be so hard on yourself.

kimberley replied: don't let anyone make you feel bad for supplementing. breastfeeding IS hard and the sad truth is, most people do not have support. i am sure in time this will get easier. hang in there and we are here for support!!!

Jackie012007 replied: awww don't feel like a failure, you are doing great!!!

I chose to FF because I needed to go back on my antidepressants to function and I got a lot of flack from other moms who exclusively BF. Well you know what? Carly was on soy formula until she turned about 10 months, and she is the healthiest, most perfect baby there ever was!!! Formula is NOT bad and don't you ever feel guilty for supplementing - he obviously needs it and you are being a good mama for doing whatever it takes to keep him healthy!!!

I HATE how some women feel the need to make motherhood a competition!!!

bawoodsmall replied: You are doing a good job. I wanted to add that there is an herbal supplement called Fenugreek that may help up your supply so you could maybe pump more or even have more for him if he does learn better as he gets older. Some kids are good at nursing some arent. Emily was an awesome nurser and Aiden sucked at it point blank. I kept at it though(not easy let me tell you) and sometimes I think it would have been better to have given up. YOU HAVE SOME GOOD INSTINCTS ABOUT KADE...you will do what is best for you both.

jcc64 replied: Dana- I'm going to give you my fool-proof home remedies for boosting your supply. Eat a bowl of oatmeal every morning. And drink a beer every night. I promise you- your supply will increase immediately. If you don't believe me, eat the oatmeal, wait an hour or two, then try pumping- you'll see a BIG difference. Same thing with the beer. I don't know exactly why that is, but it worked like a charm.
Corey used to fall asleep while nursing all the time. Like Amy said, alot of us here have btdt. There are alot of tricks to try- I used to undress her and feed her with just a diaper on- that used to keep her more alert. You'll figure it out. Keep up the good work- I'm sure you're doing better than you think you are.

boyohboyohboy replied: dana, it took me three months to get it right with jake, and he was my second baby! just take one day at a time.
and never let anyone make you feel bad..

msoulz replied: I had to supplement my son the whole time. I figured he was getting all I could give him so that is something to be happy about! I hope that works for you too!

Danalana replied: I will try the oatmeal...a friend actually told me about that just last night.
I don't drink so I don't have any beer, but maybe the oatmeal will do the trick. It will probably help me to not be dehydrated too

my2monkeyboys replied: Just wanted to reiterate what everyone else is telling you....
You're a great mom, doing the best you can. Please DO NOT let ANYONE make you feel like you're failing Kade. Being a mom is the toughest job in the world and other moms who would say things to make you feel like a failure is just a shame. And those who don't have kids have no place to tell you what you're doing wrong anyway. Like someone said earlier - be a duck!

MommyToAshley replied:
I was going to suggest those same resources. I've learned a lot from the BF Moms here, so I'd ask away.

Also, I found with BF that you have to feed more often, especially when they are so little. With Ashley I BF her every 2 hours, even through the night. Please don't take offense to this, I know you are doing all you can. I'm just surprised the lactation consultant didn't suggest ways to keep him awake or to nurse more often. You'll also want to make sure you are rotating breasts he if only nurses on one side before he falls asleep. It's important to try to keep him awake and completely empty the breast if you can so that he is getting the hindmilk.

Hang in there, we all have to do what is best for our babies and not worry about what everyone else says.

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
Every 3 hours is too long to go between feedings. He should be feeding every 1.5 to 2 hours. I think your supply has taken a dip because of the formula. Babies will drink more out of a bottle because it's harder for them to control the flow. It's totally different than the suckling action at the breast.

I think it was ridiculous advice to keep giving formula. If you want to nurse him, you need to JUST nurse him, not give any formula. If that sounds mean, I'm sorry. He won't starve, he's just confused as to what he needs to do. Going back & forth between the bottle & the breast can be hard for some babies.

Try undressing him, or tickling his feet if he seems to be dozing off too soon. If it's been 1.5 hours since he last fed, wake him. That old wives tale about not waking a sleeping baby is ludicrous. Sometimes you just have to.

Maddie&EthansMom replied: I think you need to do what keeps you sane, hun. You are an excellent mommy and you are doing the right thing by feeding your baby. I know you love him and want what's best for him.

I do agree with Dee Dee and Mollie...they have some great advice. It's your call, though sweetie. Nobody here wants to make you feel bad for ff'ing. I think we just want you to get the right advice so you are comfortable with your decision.

Our Lil' Family replied: Dana.....do what YOU feel is right for your baby! You had a hunch...you feel you have been doing the right thing, continue following that hunch. That is a mother's instinct....follow what you feel is best for you and Kade!

msoulz replied:

IMHO That's the best advice!

I learned something between my two. First, I had a lump removed from my right breast 4 years before I had my son. I asked the surgeon at the time if I would be able to breast feed and she said yes. So with my son I did what I was told, switched him from side to side, and when he failed to gain weight I had to supplement. What I discovered while pumping was that I could get about 8 times as much milk from my left breast than from my right - for example, easily pump 8 oz from the left and about 1/2 oz from the right. So yes, following the "Right" way to breastfeed I did have to supplement. I wasn't confident enough in my own skills as a mom to step off the path.

Along came #2 and once again, the same issue with the right not producing. For her, I fed strictly from the left despite being told by the doc I should use both so I would not get too lopsided - and I was able to exclusively breast feed her for a year just from the left breast. And yep, I was quite lopsided.

My point to the story is that I do believe there are physical reasons why some women can't breastfeed and they should not be made to feel badly if that is the case. And how do we know if there is a problem? For me it seemed pretty easy to figure out why but for others it may not be apparent.

My other point is just because someone is telling us what is "right", we have to decide if it works for us and our babies. It most certainly was not right for me to continue to switch sides. I am sure other "right" ways to do things will not work for others.

Yes, science tells us that breastfeeding is best. But it just doesn't work for everyone. Let's not beat up those who either chose not to or for whatever reason can not do it. And let's not have yet ANOTHER debate on the subject.

OK, I'm done now . . .

Bamamom replied: Dana you are doing a GREAT job. Figuring out BF is tough - you are NOT born knowing how to do it as some people will tell you. But keep at it cause it get better.

The only advice I would have would be to feed him more often. I fed mine every two hours during the day. I feed them for the last time at 10 and put them down. They had to wake me to eat at night - which both did about every 4 hours. My ped said as long as they are eating every 2-3 hours all day it is fine to let them sleep from 10pm to 6am. But make sure you are not letting him go longer than about 2 to 2 1/2 hours during the day.

PrairieMom replied: Dana, you are going great. Don't give up. Even just pumping and supplimenting is better than nothing, and if it doesn't work out, look at all those FF babies out there that are just fine.
Some moms just can't BF. I had very very low supply too. Even with taking fenugreek, and eating oatmeal, and drinking till I thought I would drown. Its fine, you are not failing anyone. keep trying, and when you are ready to quit, don't let anyone make you feel bad about it.

moped replied: You are the expert of Kade - ONLY YOU!!!

Danalana replied: I still don't think it was bad advice to give formula, in addition to breast milk. If a baby is strong enough to pull what he needs out, then yes, just breastfeed. I know some think breastfeeding is the only way, but I'm not going to sacrifice my baby for breastfeeding. Yes, I want to breastfeed. Yes, it's the way it was intended. And I still plan to breastfeed as long as I can. But when you have a baby who is essentially starving because he can't get enough out without falling to sleep (and you can NOT wake him up when he goes to sleep), you take action. And if that action means swallowing my pride (I HATE not being able to do something), I am MORE than willing to do it.
In fact, one big mistake I made was trying to breastfeed more, instead of giving both. I honestly think that's why he lost so much and wasn't thriving. I can see such a difference in him already and that means WAY more to me than being able to exclusively breastfeed. My lactation consultants are going to work with me toward that, but if it can't happen, that's ok...as long as he is healthy. And he looks great now.

Kentuckychick replied:
AMEN!

And I'll tell you now that I have a relative whose child ended up being diagnosed as "failure to thrive" because she was exclusively breastfeeding, refused to do or hear about doing anything else and her daughter was not getting what she needed. When she heard that diagnosis her tune changed dramatically and the baby plumped right up.

Having a healthy, happy, wellfed baby is what matters most.

Sam & Abby's Mom replied: Everybody's situation is different and everybody's baby is different. Keep doing what you think is right for you and your baby.

I still think the only reason Abby and I made it 13 months breastfeeding is because I DID supplement with formula for the first month. After that, I didnt need to supplement anymore. I did NOT supplement with Sammy and he would scream and get so worked up because my milk wasnt in, yet. I ended up exclusively formula feeding after about 5 days of trying to breastfeed. To this day, I think if I would have supplemented with formula those first 5 days that we could have made breastfeeding work. I plan to breastfeed my next baby - if supplementing is needed in the beginning, then you bet I'll do it.

Keep up the good work, Dana!

Hillbilly Housewife replied: The thing you have to remember, Dana, is that books / doctors / nurses give you GUIDELINES. Guidelines are just the average for what works for the majority of people. Breastfeeding is HARD, and don't let ANYONE tell you that it's easy.

3 hours between feedings is a little long, IMO. I remember with my babies they would eat for what seemed like 45 minutes out of each hour. On the one hand, it's great that Kade is taking well to formula, gaining weight on it, seems happier... but the bottom line is, that if you want to breastfeed fully, what you need to do is cut out the bottles and just keep trying.... (obviously, don't do this until Kade is doing well, weight wise.... HIS health is what matters most, here.) It will be a rough few days... but you CAN get back up there, if you want to.

Your supply is on demand... if there's less demand, it will go down. So if you keep supplementing, your supply will continue to go down... because there's not as much "demand" for it. Believe me when I say that the more you nurse / pump, the more your supply will increase. Try pumping for about 20 minutes every hour or so. I remember with Naomie, I was either breastfeeding her, or pumping, for a good 18 - 19 hours a day... lol

I agree with whomever suggested oatmeal and beer... but if you don't drink beer, try fenugreek capsules. You'll even have a lovely maple syrup smell to your sweat and urine...

Try, when you're supplementing, to pump anyways. it will not only help your supply, but you'll have some on hand if Richard would like to give a feeding. One thing, about bottle feeding, is that it is actually easier for a baby to drink from...because the movement of the tongue and the act of swallowing allows more air into the bottle... which in turn pushes more milk out... swallow... more... it's a vicous cycle... breastfeeding is harder than a bottle because the baby needs to work at it - kneading the breast with his tongue and jaw. You need to remember that the size of his stomach is the size of a grape... and so small frequent feedings is NORMAL.

Don't beat yourself up about your decision though, whatever it is in the end...

MommyToAshley replied:
I don't think anyone here was arguing that BF is best or that you made a bad decision. I'm sorry if you took it that way. I am pro BF, but it's a personal choice and no one is a better or worse parent for deciding to either BF or FF.

But, you stated that you wanted to BF, and I think that your lactation consultant should have given you better advice on how to increase your supply, increase the frequency of your feedings, latching, and techniques for keeping the baby awake. This is not a reflection on you but the lactation consultant. All the advice given in this thread are things that we had to learn as we worked our way through BF too. I know I needed a lot of support and help from the folks here as well as a whole team of LC's at the hospital. So I am sure that everyone here that offered advice was just trying to help and not argue with your decision. You stated how badly you wanted to BF, so it's only natural that those that have BTDT wanted to help any way they can. That's what we are here for, to support each other.

And, in the end, all that matters is that Kade is happy, healthy and loved.

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
I think you need to work on his latch. And I think you need different LC's. If he's nursing for 15 minutes & only getting 1/2 ounce, there's something wrong with his latch. Are your LC's certified IBCLC (International Board Certified Lactation Consultant)? Or are they they "lactation consultants" , which is basically a nurse who tooka BFing class; some don't even do that.

It's never a mistake to breastfeed more. That's the best thing you can do right now, along with trying to relax.

DillsMommy replied:
EXACTLY!

Weather it's BF or FF everybody has to do what works best for them and for thier baby. Having a healthy baby is what is most important. Your doing great, Dana. Just follow your instinct and baby Kade will be just fine!

~Roo'sMama~ replied:

Not every baby is the same. When Andrew was just days old he was going anywhere from 2 to 6 hours between nursings - I just fed him when HE wanted to eat. Allie on the other hand nursed every 2 hours around the clock, again because that's what SHE wanted to do.

Dana you're doing a great job, and you should keep doing what is right for you. I am very pro-breastfeeding, but I know that sometimes mother's have to formula feed. I know you want to breast feed, and I think you're doing a great thing by just supplementing Kade instead of just giving up on BF and switching completely to formula! Keep up the good work!

Insanemomof3 replied:
VERY well said!

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
I think that opinions given were just that - opinions given - and nobody's telling anyone that they're doing the wrong thing.

Supplementing happens to be the worst thing to do when you want to increase your supply. It is not the worst thing for mom or baby...and in this case happens to be what's best for Kade...

luvmykids replied: Dana, while you're having to supplement, just kick up the pumping to increase your supply That way supplementing doesn't hurt your supply, you'll have extra milk, and Richard or whoever else is around to help can give him a bottle while you work through this

I pumped with the twins and believe me, I had PLENTY

~Roo'sMama~ replied:
I don't think that Dana ever said that she was having a supply issue - Dana? Maybe I'm not remembering right but in her first post about this (not in this thread) she said she was pumping to help keep her supply from dropping since she was supplementing, not that she actually had a low supply. The problem isn't her supply, it's the fact that no matter how good of a supply she has, Kade just isn't able to get it out right now.

i'm not jumping on a bandwagon, I'm just saying that Dana has said what she's doing and that it's making things better, and instead of telling her that she's getting bad advice and to stop doing what's working, we should be supporting her decision.

Calimama replied: You're doing great! Hang in there.

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
Since Rocky said to lay off, this will be quite tame. This is a response to Sara - not Dana.

I never said it was wrong to supplement, just that it *may* cause more problems than it's trying to help. As for mentioning his latch, it *could* be a reason why he isn't nursing well. Yes, I don't know exactly what's going on, I wish I could be there to see for myself & help her.

I know all babies are different, and some can go longer between feedings. Since Kade is having such troubles, this is a good time to wake him to eat if it's been longer than 2 hours. This goes along with the supplementing; feeding formula can make him fuller and it takes longer to digest, so it causes a damaging cycle.

If she's getting the wrong advice, she needs to know that.

Kaitlin'smom replied: I did not read all the post so forgive me if I am repeting anything first and formmost go with your instincts, do what you need to, its not right or wrong its your decision. One thing I did notice is that your not taking care of YOU and if you dont take care of yourself no matter how much you want to BF it will not work. Hon I say this out of love you need to eat and drink more than normal to keep your supply comming. BF is NOT easy by anymeans but so worth it and while yes I would love for you to throw your bottles away Its not real for you, I say as long as your tring and he is getting some BF your doing better than most. hang in there and keep at it.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:

I don't think anyone is not supporting her decision... but the advice Dana was given by the lactation consultant WAS wrong, there are no doubts about that. There are OBVIOUSLY some issues at work here, and supplementing was the best choice for the time being.

~Roo'sMama~ replied:
I still don't see why you think that the advice her lactation consultant gave her was so obviously wrong. From what Dana has said her LC seems very supportive and wants to help her keep breastfeeding. She just also seems to realize that making sure Kade gets some nutrition is more important than exclusively BF.

mckayleesmom replied: When I was nursing Mckaylee...I had horrible latch problems with her....the lactation consultant at the hospital tried to help me numerous times and nothing helped....Mckaylee even sucked off a chunk of skin.....

One night I was trying to nurse her, she was crying, I was crying.....I decided thats it....I tried for a month and nothing was working. I had already been supplementing for a while.....so I just started pumping. I pumped for her for 4 months.

While she would eat one bottle....I would pump her next bottle.

jcc64 replied: I think it's appropriate and necessary to offer information gleaned from experience when you know someone's been given questionable advice from a "professional". I think many of us have figured out along the way that the drs and nurses who care for our kids are not omniscent or omnipotent- they have their own biases, misconceptions, etc... I can only tell you that in my experience, I have learned FAR more from other moms than I have from my pediatricians (and that includes my brother, who happens to be one).
I read through this thread very carefully, and nowhere did I see anyone coming down on Dana for bottle feeding. I think everyone has been incredibly supportive and encouraging. But, supporting someone means sharing information they need to have to make an informed decision, whatever that winds up being. I think so many of us here have been given bad advice by the medical community, or no advice at all, and wished it had been different for us.
I'm pretty sure that's what's gone on in this thread. In any event, keep up the good work Dana!

Mommy2BAK replied:

coasterqueen replied:
Jeanne said it best for me.

Jamison'smama replied: As far as the LC being wrong--who knows?...I can say that the LC in the hospital was very different than the LCs at the women's organization I went to later. The hospial LCs are great at getting you educated on how to do it, how to latch, making sure you have the supplies you need and sending you on your nursing way. The LCs I saw that were outside of the hospital were very thorough and worked with women throughout the entire nursing relationship---I saw one for a few days in a row getting Jamison to latch correctly--bleeding, raw, cracked, painful, it's like she had lips of razorblades but they taught me how to keep her awake, the best position to get her to eat more (football hold), they would weigh her daily before and after feedings, if she didn't weigh enough--they'd put her back on the breast---I felt like that's all I did for the first month--THANK GOD for the LCs, I could finally feed my baby.

I think most of us sense a desire for Dana to nurse, no one said--oh my goodness bottle feeding is horrible, on the contrary, if that's what anyone decides to do, great, but if you want to exclusively BF, many of us here have experienced a great deal---after nursing for a total of 4 years 2 months, I like to share my experiences hoping I can help someone who felt as scared as I was. Feeding your baby (especially for BF moms) is scary, we hope and pray they are eating enough and that we are doing things right since we can't actually measure the amounts, we rely on the advice of others and our own instincts. I haven't seen one bashing person on here and find the advice and comments to be just what I would have wanted. It is okay to question those taking care of of kids (be it LCs or Pediatricians), it is okay to get second opinions if a lot of people offer advice from years of experience, and it is okay to ignore advice if it is unwanted.

Sorry Dana, you aren't even commenting here and we are all talking as if you aren't in the room

HUGS HUGS HUGS

ETA--sorry Jeanne, I typed before I saw your message and yours was so much more concise and on target...

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
I think that 15 minutes isn't enough for a LC to judge how well a baby is feeding. There is so much more at play to be able to see it in 15 minutes. Yes, giving formula to help with weight gain and nutrition is important.. but was there anything else said? was there any other advice given? did the LC suggest pumping more? Did she suggest taking any supplements to aid in milk production? did she give tips on how to try to keep baby awake? Did she show Dana how to manually express? how to use a pump properly? Different ways to hold Kade while trying to breastfeed? did she check mom's diet? From what i get, no... seems that the LC just said - screw it, give him formula. Doesnt seem very helpful, in the big picture. I'm sure she said that to make sure kade gets what he needs... but it doesn't seem like overall she did a very good job of making Dana feel good about it, nor does it seem like she did a very good job of being supportive enough to give other tips / advice to help Dana and her breastfeeding. yes, every baby is different, and every mom is different.. but it seems the LC just took the easy way out and didn't try to dig deeper to see if there's some other issue. Not very typical for a LC - which made me question her knowledge. A lot of so called LC are just women who were given a small basics course... not certified. I'm positive that's the case here...


ETA- oops - wrote something here that was meant for another post... what i meant to write here is that it's obvious Dana didn't get all the support she needed from her, since thre's a post here abotu it.

moped replied: I think that it really doesn't matter if the LC was wrong or not or what we all think because supplementing is making Dana more ocnfortable and her baby happier - so really it is a win win situtaion.

Really don't need to tell her what we all think.......

Maddie&EthansMom replied: No, but I think a lot can be learned from this post. I'm glad Dana posted it and I'm grateful for all the advice, as I'm certain someone else in the future will be just as grateful.

I had one child who was very difficult to nurse and it happened to be my first child. I so wish I would have known then what I know now!!! It's HARD! It HURTS and it isn't what the pictures make it seem, nor what the LC's at the hospital make it seem...not even what my own mother told me it would be. I thought I was a failure. I was so stressed out. Had I been given the right information I wouldn't have been so stressed. I didn't even know I could get an LC to come to my home. Nobody at the hospital told me anything!! It took a couple of months of pumping, but finally Maddie and I went on to have a great nursing relationship.

Then I had Ethan who knew what to do when he came out of the womb and we had a wonderful nursing relationship from the get go.

This post is about more of us sharing our experiences than telling the OP what she is doing wrong. I by no means am going to compare my experience to hers, but maybe she can take something from it and be encouraged that we all eventually make it thru it and are okay with our decisions, whether we FF or BF.

My2Beauties replied: I will say that as someone who had problems nursing myself and I didn't do it very long, even I know that it was bad advice. Dana,don't get me wrong, you're doing what you think is right and you are Kade's mother and you know what is best for him, I applaud you for your efforts and for meeting with an LC, some women don't even do that and they just give up, but as someone who gave up herself, take it from me, if you WANT to do it, your LC was wrong in her advice. You are doing a great job hon, if you feel you need to continue to supplement that is fine and you should do it if you want to. I probably would in your shoes as well being told that by an LC, but from moms who have BTDT, that is the easiest way to dry up your supply is to supplement.

Everyone on here knows that I've been in a few squabbles regarding BF'ing and how it's not for everyone or not all can do it. So I agree that we shouldn't bash each other which is why I've been in a few squabbles on here, but honestly, in this case, I don't think anything was said that wasn't meant to be helpful to Dana. I think Mollie's response was tactful and she is extremely educated on BF'ing. She has tandem nursed and all, so she has definitely BTDT so I think her advice is good advice. I'm just saying....from someone who did give up and I'm not ashamed to say I did, I did for various reasons and I don't want to get into them because it's not a debate, I did it for 6 weeks with each of my kids, I had a hard time pumping etc...but I didn't seek anyone's advice about it either. Obviously you are very committed to BF'ing and I think you should seriously consider the advice of the "veteran BF'ers" on the board. They know, believe me.

Dana you are an awesome mom. Like I said, do what you feel is best, but you have been given good advice from these moms!

Bamamom replied: Ladies I know we all care about Dana. She's actually one of my fav. people on PC cause she's always so honest and genuine. May I just suggest that we let this drop? If Dana wants more advice I think she will solict it - either on this post or through IM. Dana has been very forthright with the fact that she's a little emotionally fragile right now and having this debate on her thread about her son probably isn't helping that - as evidenced by the fact that she hasn't posting in 2 pages.

Dana - hope you are feeling well and that everything is settling out for you - hang in there girl. It does get easier!

msoulz replied:

I second that.

~Roo'sMama~ replied:
That was exactly why I made my post asking that we please stop telling her she's been getting bad advice and so forth. It seemed like she'd made a decision that she was happy with and things were getting better, and I didn't want her to feel like she should be changing her mind again. I didn't mean for it to turn into an argument, but I honestly didn't (still don't) understand why some people are so insistent about her LC. I'm sorry it got out of hand.

Dana I'm sorry if this has made things worse for you - I hope everything's going good for you and Kade!!

My2Beauties replied: Let me apologize if my post upset you Dana, I just didn't want anyone to think that certain people weren't trying to help, that's all it was meant to be was to help. If Dana is happy, we're all happy!

MommyToAshley replied: To all those urging the conversation to stop, I don't understand your reasoning? I don't think anyone has anything to apologize for. (Except that we kind of hijacked her post now about whether or not we should continue to talk about it) Not one person has said anything that should make Dana feel bad -- in fact, everyone has been very supportive. Everyone has given great advice with the intention of being helpful. If Dana is happy with her decision and doesn't want to take the advice, that's fine she doesn't need to. She can just read the posts and know that so many people here care. But, there may be another Mom out there just lurking that reads this and it helps them. Maybe I am missing something but I don't see where the problem lies? This is a discussion forum for discussing problems, parenting issues, milestones, etc. If all that we should do is say you are doing great, when in reality we may be able to help, then what is the purpose of even having this forum?

PrairieMom replied:
I don't think that its wrong to have the conversation, but we all know that Dana is really sensitive right now, and she is stressed about this and I know if it were me, I would be looking for support and approval right now, not necessarily advice. and I know, If it were me, not speaking for Dana at all... that I would be hurt and sad about this thread, because I would be clearly trying to do the best I can, and is still being told that I am doing things wrong. (even if it is just friendly advice)

I just think that maybe its the wrong time for the conversation, or at least conversation regarding her specific situation.

MommyToAshley replied:
I guess that is why I have a different outlook on the situation. If it were me and I wanted to BF as much as Dana says she does, I would be grateful for the advice and support (not just the support). I think now is the perfect time to discuss it because now is when she would need to try to get help IF she wants to.

Everyone has stated that they had good intentions, and wanted to help, but will support her in the end... I think that is a true sign of friendship and I wouldn't want anyone to feel bad for that. Just like I wouldn't want Dana to feel bad for making a decision she feels is right.

PrairieMom replied:
Its funny how different peoples brains work, because what you see as helpful support, I would see as pressure, and think that real friends know when to drop it and just give a

FYI, I'm just saying, as a general observation in social interactions, NOT about this thread.

jcc64 replied: I've been thinking about this thread for a few hours already. I completely agree with Dee Dee. I think we all need to remember the nature of our association with one another. It IS a message board, this IS the internet, and everyone IS entitled to speak his/her piece. If you don't want to have the conversation, don't start it, kwim? It has been said ad nauseum that we support Dana and any other new mom who comes here, and we all benefit from the exchange of ideas and information. Like Dee Dee said, this is a public forum, and someone lurking here may benefit just as surely as the people directly involved in the conversation.
Dana, we love you and want you to have the best experience possible with your lovely little baby. We're here to support you, even if that support feels a little challenging at times. Being a friend isn't always about saying what the other person wants to hear. It's what they need to hear.

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
ITA with you Dee Dee! I'm sorry if my posts have come across as not very helpful, or pushy, or whatever. I thought they would be helpful. I care about Dana & Kade too. I'd just hate to see a beautiful breastfeeding relationship end because of misinformation and lack of support, like what happened to me & my boys.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Mollie your posts have not been pushy, they've been pretty helpful actually...and quite nicely written.

To quote someone else... it was never about the formula, it was about giving advice on how to continue with the supply. Nobody said anything about giving their opinion on formula... the OP said she wanted a successful relationship with breastfeeding - and advice was given on how to accomplish that, end of story. I STILL don't understand how anyone's posts here were taken so out of context as to think anyone was bashing anyone else. I suppose we all ready things differently...


Someone mentionned that a real friend knows when to drop it and just offer a hug... that's just not completely true. A true friend knows when to keep shoving the truth down your throat until you get it. A true friend has your best interests at heart.. even though that may mean ruining the friendship. A true friend goes above and beyond the "smile and nod" and "drop it and hug"....putting how they are viewed aside in order to make sure their friend is 100% ok. A true friend sticks by you...offering support the whole way...not just until the topic is getting old.

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
Thanks Rocky. I never thought someone was bashing anyone, unless people think I'm the one doing the bashing, but I'm not. You made a really good point about true friends .

msoulz replied: If you read Dana's post, she did not ask for help. She said she is glad she decided to supplement and that Kade is doing well because of it. Everyone else decided to give her lessons on supply issues and the like. Which could make a person feel like she is being told she is doing the wrong thing - when someone says "I feel good about this" and someone else says in any way "that is wrong" one can feel badly. That is how I see it being potentially taken negatively. That was my reason for suggesting the topic be dropped. Only Dana knows how it made her feel and as someone else noted, she has not weighed in on the subject in a while, hopefully because she is just too busy with that beautiful boy.

The information provided is good information - I don't see anyone debating that.

And while it is true that a good friend doesn't give up on someone, even "shoving the truth" down one's throat, the opposite is also true, that a good friend also knows when to drop it. Both statements are completely true depending on the situation and the persons involved.

That's why the so-called "bashers" get a bad rap - their strong opinions are taken as slams, when they are really just opinions. We all have them, they are all valid and as was pointed out we can learn from them instead of getting all offended by them.

JMHO

Kaitlin'smom replied: okay enough

eveyone can have there opinon

I dont care if you FF or BF as long as you feed, cloth and move of all love your child thats all that matters. if this continues I will lock the thread. I am tired of the defensive and bickering.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
Di the only reason I haven't edited and/or locked anything is because i'm involved in the conversation.

happy I'm not the only Mod on today.

sparkys2boys replied: well maybe at this point we can all just send Dana some postive thoughts for her and Kade and let it be!!! Whatever she does in the end it was done out of love

holley79 replied: Well I haven’t read everything so this is just me:

If you WANT to breastfeed then find a different LC who will help you out. If you WANT to breastfeed then you are going to have to quit supplementing so you get a good supply. If you DON’T WANT to breastfeed then don’t. It does not say anywhere you HAVE to BF. Some people chose not to.

Annika lost weight in the first couple of weeks when we came home from the hospital. I was fortunate and had a great supply and an awesome suckling. I drank teas, ate oatmeal, pumped, nursed till I thought I was going to die from exhaustion. If you want it then go for it. You are only hurting your supply though with supplementing. I will be the first to admit there was NOTHING natural about nursing for me. It was awkward, it hurt and I really didn’t enjoy it for the first 4 weeks of Annika’s being. It got better and easier. I would defiantly talk to another LC if you are serious and want to continue to nurse.

JMO though.

Danalana replied: I probably didn't make this clear, but the lactation consultants are having me pump every 2-3 hours, as well as having him nurse about 10-15 minutes at every feeding. As I see him getting stronger and my supply going up, we can go longer and longer until we are just breastfeeding. That's what we all want. So I'm not supplementing INSTEAD of pumping/nursing. I'm working my butt off every 2-3 hours, I promise. And they told me about the fenugreek when I was there too...I bought it yesterday and have been taking it since. They called me over the weekend to see how everything was going, and I know they have his best interest at heart. It's fine if you don't agree...I don't mind at all. Yes, I am emotional and having a hard time, but I know this is the internet. Most of you will never know me or my heart for my baby.
I'm going to post an update thread with a few pictures.

Mommy2BAK replied:

stella6979 replied:
I can't wait!

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
Sounds like you're doing great Dana! I hope Kade gets stronger soon, so you can just breastfeed.

I can't wait to see pictures !

lovemy2 replied: Hey there you are Dana - I wondered if you were still "in the room"

Anyway - I am glad things are going well and you are getting more aquainted with your little boy and your relationship with him is developing - keep up the good work dolly and get us some pics soon

Sam & Abby's Mom replied: Glad its going ok with you and Kade. Cant wait to see pics! Hang in there -- it does get better

holley79 replied:
Sweetie I'm sorry I didn't see the part there they are having you pump. You are doing a great job and Kade is very healthy according to his pictures! You can also look for Mother's Milk Tea. That was a huge booster for me when I went back to work and may help out a bit.