I am seriously livid right now!

Boys r us wrote: Tanner stayed home from school today b/c he had an upset stomach. Anyways, we're just hanging out and I happened to ask him a question that I DON'T like the answer to...AT ALL!


He goes with his dad every other weekend, sometimes more..I kind of let the 2 of them work it between them..Tanner plays a lot of sports and his dad works and also plays softball..so a conventional schedule for visitation doesn't always work and I don't ever want to get in the way of their relationship..so I'm very open and flexible about it...even though I despise his dad with a PASSION! It has nothing to do with my past relationship with him or anything like that, he;s just a truly sorry excuse for a person, though at first glance appears wayyyy normal. He's lazy, doesn't work half the time, doesn't pay child support, when child support enforcement figures out where he's working, he quits so that his paycheck won't be garnished. He doesn't have anything..seriously, he's total loserville, but always has a sad sob story about why his life has been so rough and can't pay or can't do this or can't do that..and he's a complete and total con artist, he could make you believe that something red is really gray!!!! I was 19 when I met him and soooo gullible. I have no use for him..he's a pathetic excuse for a person..but I've never once said one bad thing about him to Tanner..and I NEVER bring up money to him b/c I don't want the fight. We're perfectly fine without his money each month and I could NEVER count on his payment, so therefore I have never even factored that money into my monthly budget. Well, because when Tanner was born I turned it over to the Department of Child Support Enforcement to handle b/c I knew my son had a right to the money...even if he doesn't get it until he's 45...he deserves that other half of support his father should be supplying him..so I always looked at it sort of as money in the bank for him. Maybe not today, but one month he'd get it. therefore I wanted to make it legal and have them handle it.

Well, he's never paid on any sort of regular basis..always sparadically and usually only when he's faced with the state taking him to court for failure to pay. Then he'll make a few payments. but all along, I never make mention of it or bring it up to him, it's not worth making my blood pressure rise to even think about it.

Okay..well about 3 months ago, I got a letter from DCSE(dept child support enforcement). They had his driver's license suspended b/c he's so far behind in support to me. I sat Tanner down and told him that when he goes with his dad, he's not allowed to go anywhere when his dad is driving, only when his step mom is. He asked why and I gave him a tiny bit of info, just saying that the court had taken away his DL and therefore he's not allowed to be driven around by someone who doesn't have a DL, b/c it's against the law and as his mom, it's my job to look out for him and if I knowingly let him in the car with someone who doesn't have a DL, then I'm just as wrong as that person for driving him around.

So...the next time Tanner was on the phone with his dad and asking me if he could go over there for the day, I said "yes, but I need to talk to him." so I got on the phone and walked outside and said, "Hey..look, I got the same letter you did about your driver's license...I have no issues at all with Tan spending the day with you anytime..but you can't be the one to come get him and bring him home and you can't be driving him anywhere while he's with you." I never made a tadoo over why his DL was suspended or anything. I said exactly that and nothing more..he said, "that's cool, I understand" I handed the phone back to Tanner. Ever since Tanner's step mom has been coming to get him and bring him home.

Well, Sunday his dad was playing softball at the sports complex that is literally 200 ft down the road from my house and Tanner asked if I could drive him up there an drop him off so he could watch his dad play baseball and then go over to his house. I don't know why I didn't think of it, but it never occurred to me that his wife wasn't there too and that I needed to see who was driving.

well today while I was making Tanner & allie lunch, I asked him flat out..did Sara(his step mom) go to the softball game sunday? and he said, No, but ronnie and I(his dad) rode home with someone else.

I looked at him and knew instantly he was lying to me. he was soooo nervous.
I gave him my disappointed eyes stare and said calmly, "Tanner..this is your last chance to tell me the truth, I'm not mad at you..but you need to tell me the truth and keep in mind that I could have seen you Tanner, we live beside the field"

He got really sad looking and said, "Ronnie drove, but he told me I had to tell you that we rode with a friend!"

I am SERIOUSLY about to lose my mind I'm so furious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did manage to stay cool in front of Tanner and I explained I wasn't mad at him..that I was mad at his dad for doing something illegal with my son in the car and for his dad not only advocating that he lie to me, but putting him in a situation where he was forced to lie to me to protect his dad.

I am so mad! I want to piuck up the phone and call that jerk right now, but I know I have got to calm down before I do!

Any advice?

I feel like I can't trust him to take Tanner anymore. I did make the comment to tanner that I probably shouldn't have but I didn't know what else to say and I was so mad, I said, "don't make anymore plans with your dad, he needs to talk to me to make plans from now on!" I hate to make Tanner feel like he did something to get his dad in trouble by telling me the truth. I told Tanner that I would not tell his dad he told me, but that I would just say I saw them driving. But I can't do that b/c I need to address the fact that he forced Tanner to lie to me..THAT INFURIATES ME MORE THAN any other part of this!

I'm going to call my attorney to see what my rights are as far as withholding visitation until his license is reinstated.
I am so frickin mad right now!

luvmykids replied: Oh wow, what a you know what to put his kid in a position to feel he had to lie for him I don't have any advice, just try to reinforce that Tanner didn't get his dad in trouble, that his dad is an adult who knows right and wrong and that every part of the situation was his dad making bad choices. I think you should tell Tanner than anyone who does something wrong and then wants you to cover for them is the only person to blame.

Good luck, I'd be livid too

Boys r us replied: Thanks Monica!! Any advice for how to handle dealing with his dad?

lisar replied: He told him to lie to you That shocks me. I cant believe a grown man would ask a child to lie to you like that. I would call him. But thats just me.

luvmykids replied: I think it's a smart move to talk to your attorney, just so you don't tell his dad anything that can't be backed up legally, kwim? But I'd definitely tell his dad that you know he drove, that it's nothing personal but you made it clear that you wouldn't allow that and since he chose to ignore it, you'll be talking to the attorney. He'll probably try to make you feel bad but I'd say hey, if it's so important to you then get your license back and until then, since I obviously can't trust you, you'll just have to wait to see him. I'd also have a hard time not letting loose on him about what a dud he is for asking his son to lie for him....that is awful on soooo many levels and I'd tell him he owes Tanner an apology.

eta: I don't know about the laws there, but here if they catch you driving without a license they can technically tow your car....ask him how cool it would be to have Tanner brought home to you in a police car or standing on the side of the road waiting for a ride

cameragirl21 replied: wow, what a mess! Personally, I see the biggest problem here being that his dad asked Tanner to lie for him...to his mother. That is unacceptable. I would probably tell Tanner that while you're not mad and totally understand why he said what he said, it is NEVER ok to lie to you or your DH (whom I'm assuming is probably more of a father figure to Tanner than his own dad anyway) no matter what anyone tells him. And that if an adult tells him to lie then that means the adult knows he is doing something wrong and that Tanner should be wary of any grownup telling him to lie under any circumstances.
As for the dad, Idk, is it possible to tell him that until his license is reinstated, the only way he can see Tanner is at a public place where you drop him off and pick him up, like at a restaurant for lunch or at a baseball game, etc. I know it's more hassle for you but at least you'll have peace of mind. I would tell the dad the truth, that you figured out that he must have driven him so you asked Tanner and while he tried to lie, he's a good kid and therefore not a good liar and you figured him out. I would also make it clear that putting his kid up to lying for him is not exactly stellar parenting. I would not be afraid to tell the truth, both to the dad and to Tanner about the seriousness of lying for a grownup. And like I said, I'd have them meet at public places where I drop off and pick up, that way he still gets time with his dad but you won't have to worry about his dad driving him. Who knows, maybe the dad will actually make an effort to get his DL back...?

stella6979 replied: Wow, what a great guy to makes his child lie to his own Mother. I would definitely call him and let him know that it's one thing for him to lie to you, but to ask your child lie to you is unacceptable. I would also tell him that until he talks to Tanner HIMSELF and explains that it was HE who was wrong to ask him to lie that his visits will be on hold. I would also threaten to call the police and report him for driving without a license. Heck, I'd probably do that anyways, but that's just me.

Danalana replied: Oh, I can imagine how angry you are!
I feel sad for Tanner...he just wants to spend time with his dad, and he shouldn't be put in that situation by him. Do Tanner and your DH have a good relationship?

DVFlyer replied: It seems to me that since the ex can't be trusted with following the rules when watching Tanner, he loses the opportunity to see him at all.

Seriously. It's just like a child. If a child can't obey the rules, freedoms are taken away.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: I'm going to be blunt here... at least the license wasn't suspended for something like drinking or drugs.

YES, it is illegal... and he shouldn't have done it... and he definitely should NOT have asked Tanner to lie. I just personally don't feel that it is enough of an issue to get lawyers involved... but what do I know. I think that maybe it would be enough for you to ensure it doesn't happen again... that's just my 2c.

DVFlyer replied:
I'm guessing it's a culmination of a lot of things that led to the "lawyer" comment and this was just this latest issue was the tipping point.

Boys r us replied: You know what, to me it doesn't matter WHY his DL is invalid. It is. and that means if he's pulled over for something as simple as a turn signal being out..my son is gonna be in a BAD situation if he's in the car with him b/c they WILL NOT allow him to drive anywhere..the car will be towed and he'll likely be carted to jail and where's that leave Tanner? I'm sorry that may not be traumatic to some people..but my son lives in a normal, happy world..not a trashy one where things like this are just everyday parts of life. I'm not okay with that!
Second of all, in my opinion the fact that he's such a loser his DL is suspended b/c he can't even make an effort to even pay $10 a month towards taking care of his son..I mean fine, if he can't pay the full $500/month..then pay $10 or $15..whatever you can pay and show an effort that you do care and are trying. So, in my opinion..the fact that his DL is suspended for that and in over 3 months he's not made any effort to pay any part of any of the curent or back payments owed so that he CAN get his DL back makes him pretty much scum in my book, whether it's him or any other man we're discussing, it's not personal to me. I mean people with alcohol or drug addictions often don't have the physical ability to stop themselves from partaking in the bad behavior..he doesn't have an addiction to blame..he's just lazy! But just to remind you, I did say that the most infuriating part of any of this isn't about him driving without a DL..I'm not stupid, I know that whether he's driving legally or not doesn't alter his ability to drive..it's the fact that he's teaching my son to lie..it's that he did something to break the rules and had my 11 yr old son cover his butt for him.. THAT IS WRONG TO THE CORE! He's deminishing the things I am trying to teach him in order to raise a good person and I won't stand for that. I don't live in a world where it's okay for kids to be used that way! That is the key issue in all of this, the situation he put Tanner in. Danalana said it perfectly, poor tanner, all he wanted to do was to see his dad.But his dad is a real jerk and put him in an awful situation and I'm mad about it. So, if revamping visitation until he can get his bearings about himself will teach him something..then that's what I'll do! Right now..I'm leaning towards having him apologize to Tanner for what he had him do and explain that it's wrong. Also Rocky, not sure if you considered this, but as his legal gaurdian if I allow him to get in the car with someone that I KNOW doesn't have a driver's license and then something happens..I'm just as guilty as his dad for driving b/c I let him get int he car with him! Either way, it's negligent parenting to expose your child to activities that are illegal and then ask them to cover up for you! It doesn't matter what the activity is..wrong is wrong and isnt' that what we try everyday to teach our kids? I know I do! There's no such thing as a little bit wrong..Tanner KNEW he didn't have a DL and therefore Tanner knew he was doing something illegal when he was driving and his dad was teaching him that it was alright..the law didn't matter!

A&A'smommy replied: YIKES I would be ticked too!!!! I don't even know what to say except that sucks!!!

My2Beauties replied: I'd be beyond livid too and you're completely right in everything you have said Nichole. What an idiot for having his child cover his own butt!

punkeemunkee'smom replied: WOW! I would be flippin hot right now too! I know that it is more about the fact that HE used your son's love for him to make him lie to you and in doing so not only broke a trust you have with Tan but also now I am sure Tanner feels like he ratted out his dad. I don't know what I would do-you already made your request to him to refrain from driving with Tanner in the car. He obviously knows that it is a valid request or he would not have abided by it for this long. It seems as though you are more than fair with him but if he can't respect your requests then I would call and see what you can do to protect Tanner in the future!

gr33n3y3z replied: Point Blank he was so wrong on many counts
Sorry I hope you can grab the bull by the horns and let him have it

Cece00 replied:
You arent going to be able to withhold visitation AT ALL without a court date. You need to take it in front of the judge to do so. You could actually be in a lot of trouble for doing so (per the law, you'd be in contempt) so I'd file to have the order amended that any time he is without a VALID drivers license, he is not to drive your son around. Then, if he does, you can file contempt charges on HIM.

I know you really hate your ex but I want to commend you on letting your son spend a lot of time with him & not restricting that. I know you want to now, but do it the LEGAL way. But I think it says a TON about your (good!) character that even though he doesnt pay support & is a sorry guy, you let your son have the relationship with his father that he deserves. AND you never drag your son into the middle, which is so great. I am that way with my ex too, and I see a LOT of women that are not, its actually pretty rare to find women like you & I as far as the situation with the kids/ex's go. It really only hurts the kids in the long run, so keep doing what youre doing, within the confines of the law, so YOU dont get into trouble.

Good luck!

MoonMama replied: OMG I would be spitting fire right now. Nicole, ITA it doesn't matter why his DL was suspended the fact is that it is. And like you said had he made some kind of effort like "hey here is $20 I know its not much but its all I have, I'll give you more when I can" etc. KWIM? I'm sorry but what a loser and deadbeat. And also like you said if he got pulled over....that presents a whole new situation to deal with and Tanner not only doesn't need to see that but also doesn't need to be placed is that kind of situation. I cannot believe he put Tanner in a place where he not only felt he needed to lie to you and cover for his dad, but that his dad flat out told him too! I would be calling my lawyer ASAP. I would calmly explain to his dad away from earshot of Tanner....that due to his lack of responsibility - can't show a hand to help at all with his son, driving on a suspended DL (with his son in the car no less), disrespect for you by telling Tanner flat out to lie to you and cover for him (when it sounds like you have given his dad more respect that he deserves) etc. That you need to reevaluate the situation. Then talk to your lawyer. Or until you do talk to your lawyer maybe just keep things busy and Tanner busy for the time being so there is "time" for visits for now. I don't know I'm not much help sorry. But I would be beyond livid, KUP.

stella6979 replied:
Ya know, I'm wondering if Tanner's stomach was upset because of the guilt he felt having to lie to you? If so, that right there shows what a great person you ARE raising. I feel so bad for him and I hope your ex grows up and realizes that eventually Tanner will understand the kind of person his Dad really is.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: I'm sorry if I offended you Nichole, it wasn't the intention. I get what you're saying, and you're 100% justified in being ticked off.. I would be too. Just trying to say that the situation that the dad is in could be a lot worse... and as much of a butt as he is, it seems like small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. As irresponsible as he seems to be, with money etc, he doesn't seem to be doing drugs in front of tanner etc... and YES, teaching him that lying is ok IS WRONG, and you have EVERY right to be upset... and yes, I'm aware that "allowing" him to drive without a license you can be in trouble too.. which is why I'd said that maybe instead of taking it to the lawyers, maybe you ensuring it doesn't happen again may be enough. Like I said, what do I know. I DO know what it's like to have a deadbeat for a father though, and to be honest I'd likely have lied in tanner's place too... kids don't understand the logic. They know: Truth = can't see dad. You know what's best for your situation, obviously!! Again, sorry if you were offended... wasn't the intent.

boyohboyohboy replied: I totally agree with you and all you have said nicole. I do think I would have that heated talk with the dead beat dad though, and I would tell him that you are now in charge of their scheduled time together, and if the step mom cant come and get him and drop him off then you will do it. I would mention to him if he has one little gripe about it, that you would be happy to call the lawyer and have it straightened out that way.
although, i do agree with calling the lawyer, I mean right now yes, in the grand scheme of things this was small compaired to what might happen in the future..but thats why you should call, to make sure he isnt left scared and watching his father be put into a cop car and put in a position where he is made to feel bad for his dad..and what confusing feelings that is going to be for him.

I totally would take charge here, and call the lawyer.

I would be interested in what happens with this if you wanted to update.