For Those of You Who Think - 8 Weeks is too little to CIO to sleep

lovemy2 wrote: When did you start "teaching" your kids to go to sleep on their own and how did you get your 8 week old to go to sleep???????

I am interested now - seems to me that even at 8 weeks Dylan had me wrapped around his finger when it came to going to sleep, etc........

stella6979 replied: Avery is 10 months, and we're still trying to get her to sleep through the night. She was a very colicky baby, so sleep was rare during the first couple of months. Also, my DH works nights, so I never minded having her in bed with me and in the beginning that's the only way she would sleep, was on me.

mummy2girls replied: well i coslept so for my dd because i was in the same bed she slept just fine. But because i started to put her in her crib at 8 months due to feet in my mouth she didnt like it. I just CIO and after a week she slept on her own.

coasterqueen replied: Mine just started sleeping when they were ready. One well past 2 years and the other has been off and on since 12-15 months of age.

Calimama replied: I would put Bella in her crib at 5 months and she would babble for about 5 minutes and then fall asleep. If we had sleep issues I wouldn't let her CIO until past 7-8 months.

MyLuvBugs replied: We started Lorelei at 12-14 wks....3 months basically. And she did fine. If you think your child is read at 8 wks then go for it!

Lexi was more difficult, and we waited until 4 1/2 months with her.

Boo&BugsMom replied: I think Tanner was about 3-4 months, but I could be wrong. It's been awhile so I don't remember. He was pretty easy to get to sleep himself though after his colic went away. We have more issues with his "stalling" tactics now at age 4 than we did as an infant. Another side of me wants to say he was younger though. I'm a tough mommy and don't put up with much, so I'm not positive, but that is what comes to me off the top of my head.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Oh, and I also want to say every child is different. If he is only crying for 10 minutes and falling asleep I think you are doing something right, IMHO. If he was wailing and not falling asleep, then I'd say not do the CIO yet. But if he's falling asleep then obviously he's tired and can do it himself.

CantWait replied: Anthony was 10 months. After awhile we fell into old habits again and we had to start over with a simplified CIO.

Bamamom replied: I nursed Tripp to sleep at that age. It was only after we'd given up the night nursing (around 7 months) that we CIO.

hoosier momma replied: My son always fell asleep with the routine of bath, bottle and bed and slept through the night like this from about 6 weeks until about 6 months when he starting cutting teeth. At that point he would go to sleep the same, but wouldn't sleep all night. So we either coslept the rest of the night or rocked him back to sleep. At 13 months he still goes to sleep with a bottle or paci. I know it's probably not best, but I just think he is still too little to CIO. I feel like he still needs comfort or he wouldn't be crying. I hope I didn't offend you saying I thought he was too little and apologize if I did. TBH I am not a big CIO fan at any age. Everyone has to have their own parenting style though.

kimberley replied: after 4 kids, i have learned there is only one constant.. every kid is different.

i agree 8 weeks is far too young for CIO. they don't have the capacity to manipulate at that age, as much as it seems they do, there is almost always a reason a baby that young cries.. hungy, needs changing or feeding, gassy, sick, lonely, growth spurt, beginning teething, constipation.. the list goes on. they also feed off our tension so if you or your SO are tense, he will cry too.

none of my kids responded to CIO (tho i didn't put much effort into it because it broke my heart) before 1yo. i co-slept and that allowed me the comfort of rolling over to feed in the night instead of getting up. my youngest is the only one who used the crib and will cry sometimes when i put her down but fall back asleep within a few minutes. she started at about 11mos. but i will nurse or rock her to sleep, then put her to bed. i don't go in unless she is full on wailing for 5min.

luvmykids replied: I didn't ever necessarily do CIO but I did use the Babywise book as a guide and I have to say it worked for all three of mine. Of course you have to use your best judgement and it has to be modified for your child but it was a good starting point for us.

boyohboyohboy replied: there is actually a book I am working thru called
lullababy slep plan by dr catheryn tobin, that talks about starting a baby off to sleep alone at 8 weeks. I have had a terrible time with my last son, and wanted to a new approach. its something interesting to read. its is not like the ferber method or just plain CIO its more gentle.

DansMom replied: We coslept until he was two, and I always nursed him to sleep until he was three. I still stay with him in his room until he's asleep, which doesn't take long. My philosophy is very different---it never seemed necessary or useful to feed into anxiety and drama over going to sleep. I didn't feel manipulated, I felt responsive. It seemed biologically natural to comfort my child to sleep, and they do naturally transition away from that need some point. I'm not dissing anyone else's approach---and I'm not a permissive parent. I just set my limits and boundaries on completely different issues.

redplaydoh replied:
Same here... I could've written the quoted statement. We co-slept both our boys for the first two years, and with them being so close in age that meant we had both in our bed for a while. That is what worked for us and absolutely isn't for everyone. We still wake up with both in our bed. They go to sleep in their bed but I'm sure they sleepwalk into our bed in the wee hours of the morning. Sleeping on their own for us wasn't a big issue. I think we enjoyed them as much as they liked being in our bed. Transitioning them to their bed wasn't so bad either, about a week into it and a few tears they were fine.

mysweetpeasWil&Wes replied: My kids were still in their bassinettes in our room at that age, so I woke everytime they woke and I fed them. I believe at that age (or even later age) they are crying for a reason, most likely because they are hungry or uncomfortable. I probably didn't start CIO until Wil was in a twin bed, and even then, I would always go in and check on him after 5 minutes. He slept through the night starting at 4 months. Wesley started sleeping through the night at 6 months. All kids are different. I followed the Baby Whisperer schedule. Eat, play, nap, eat, play, nap...I think that's how it went! I don't even remember anymore! Anyhow, that helped me get them on a schedule and they both just sorta went to bed when ready. It helped to swaddle them, soothe with music, put them down and walk out. Listen, go back in, say "goodnight", repeat if necessary. Just follow their cues. My kids never really cried all that much once put down, but I think what's important is to not wait to put your kid down based on your own schedule, kwim? Look for tiredness and GO FOR IT!

luvmykids replied: I just wanted to add for clarification, I don't think you're meaning CIO in the sense of not letting him eat or trying to force him to sleep through the night, I think you mean sleeping in general, right? I remember you posting that he wouldn't even nap if I'm correct and you're just having trouble getting him to go to sleep period, is that right?

Boo&BugsMom replied:
That is how I took it as well.

lovemy2 replied: THANK YOU MONICA AND TANNERBUGS MOM.....I was about to start a new post to clarify this some - I am DEFINATELY not just plopping this 8 week old baby into his crib and letting him wail until he is out while I go to sleep.....there is a definate routine we are working on and he is definately held and rocked prior to being put to bed.....and I definately do not just walk out and leave him....as I have said he has terrible reflux so I am outside his door listening carefully so I can hear when he pukes, etc. and I am in and out constantly during the 10 minutes or less it takes him to quiet down and fall asleep....I don't always interact with him unless he gets really wailing, for the most part he is either yes crying or doing that half hearted cry but I am not letting him full out wail....I guess I need to clarify that....maybe CIO isn't really what I am doing - and my purpose in posting any of this was to look for some ideas to make it easier on him to learn to fall asleep on his own...

Co-sleeping isn't for us and he isn't a pacifier baby - he is searching for his thumb and I imagine once he finds it he will put himself to sleep with no problems - as did my DD.....

He was sleeping through the nite before I started trying to put him down drowsy to fall asleep on his own but he was not napping for more than 20 minutes at a time - I suspect because he would fall asleep on me, I would put him down in his pack and play or crib and he woke in 20 minutes wailing because I think he was scared and didn't know where he was....now he may cry a bit before falling asleep but is getting great 2-3 hour naps in and is a MUCH MUCH MUCH happier baby for it....

And if he wakes during the nite and is just in need of comforting, he is picked up and rocked and if he is hungry - he is fed.....

Although I am sure most people weren't meaning to "judge" me some of these responses felt that way and I just wanted to clarify....

Dylan was a VERY fussy baby again I have figured out and suspect a majority of it had to do with the little sleep he was getting - now he is 100% better, happy and smiling and getting much more sleep.........

coasterqueen replied: I don't think anyone was judging you. You asked a simple question, therefore getting answers to that question. You asked what others did, that's what they told you.

On that note if your child has severe reflux that could be a part of why he's crying and not wanting to sleep. My 2nd DD had severe reflux and screamed 24/7 and sleeping was next to nil unless she was being held. His reflux is probably causing him pain when he's laid down. Are you propping him? Have you tried some of the wedges they have out there? We couldn't get anything to work and so we had to go w/the last resort...the Amby bed. It's expensive and it took a few good nights for Megan to get used to it but after that she slept so well in there. At about 9 months we were able to transition her to her crib, but even to this day she still has to be propped up.

I would never recommend CIO to someone dealing w/reflux. My daughter has choked, puked, gagged, turned blue and stopped breathing numerous times just when I'm holding her and she's crying. It's too too dangerous for them to be alone when they are crying. Which I understand you aren't doing, but I would also be careful about leaving the room and listening through the door. Megan always scared me and still does to this day. She had a reflux event the other day sitting at the kitchen table. We were all eating and I happened to look over at her and she's blue, kicking the table trying to get someone's attention because she was choking on her food. It was so scary. So even right there, right beside her I didn't even know at that second she was choking until she kicked the table.

Anyways, please understand that his reflux could be causing the problem. It's painful for them and when he's crying it's probably because he's in pain and needs you to help him the best you can. For me and Megan that meant a lot of time sleeping sitting up in a chair holding her so she was upright....until we got the amby bed and I got over my fear of her choking (that still hasn't happened, lol).

GL.

lovemy2 replied: Thanks for the info Karen, but I guess after reading about your DD, I would have to say that Dylan's reflux is not severe at all...he has never choked or gagged until he turns blue, etc. and his crying and wimpering is DEFINATELY not in pain when I lay him down - believe me, I went through a good 4 weeks of that crying before we got to this point and also before we found the right combination of medicine to give him some relief....if his cry seems at all painful or uncomfortable he is immediately picked up. I am no stranger to the pain and discomfort of reflux, I went through it with my DD as well....Dylan sleeps on his tummy as did DD so the choking factor while still a factor is not near as bad as it would be on his back.....and I know the tummy sleeping thing is a WHOLE other controversy but you have to do what you have to do and it works for us....

In fact we have been doing this for four nites now and each nite the crying, wimpering has gotten less and last nite there was a couple of little wimpers and off he went to sleepy land....and just now for his nap - not a peep, he laid there awake and watched his musical aqaurim, closed his eyes and went to sleep - so that tells me this was more a not wanting to go to sleep alone issue rather than him being uncomfortable, etc.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Christine, you are very lucky! I hope our next one is as easy as that!! My son was colicky. However, I guess I can't complain too much. He was never a rock me to sleep kind of kid. After his colic went away he preferred to just be left alone to sleep on his own. Maybe I didn't have it so bad. I was just that darn colic...blah!

lovemy2 replied: Jennie, keep the faith - believe me when they say every kid is different they mean it - in my case this one was worse than the first - while my DD struggled with the reflux at first, once it was under control she was very independent and a good sleeper all on her own - this little guy is definately a momma's boy and needs some more help in getting things figured out - which is fine too....I am glad he is figuring it out and it hasn't been too painful for either of us!!!

Either way they are all a joy as hard as we struggle with them....

Thanks again for all your support and help with this - sorry you had to get beaten up along the way with me!!!!!

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Oh, I don't feel beaten up so don't feel bad. I am happy I have a child who is well adjusted and doesn't need to sleep with me or be rocked to fall asleep. Some people don't mind it, and that's cool, but that's just not my style. And in my opinion, whatever a parent chooses, their child ultimately gets use to whatever method they choose and becomes comfortable with it. So, in all, whatever method chosen, it will work out either way and there is no right or wrong way, it's just a personal preference. Glad I could help a bit. I'm not shy or feel bad about saying that I am a total CIO fan.

stella6979 replied:
I appreciate the advice you've given me as well, and I plan to stick to it. I certainly don't want to end up like my SIL and still have my 6 year old sleeping with me every night.

lovemy2 replied: Great job everyone on this one - it was a touchy subject and while the other post relating to this got out of hand, I am glad this one stayed useful to everyone!!!

ps, Jennie - tannerbugsmom brought up a good point on the other post about routine and having to take your children to someone else to be cared for - whether its family or a daycare provider, etc. it is important to have consistency and being that Dylan will go to others to be cared for part time when I go back to work that was my reasoning for starting to really work on a routine for him at 8 weeks....

To all who work on the routines, etc. of sleep and eat and play - hang in there - whatever route we chose it has to work for you and if it does and our kids are happy and healthy then we have done our job (or part of it at least)!!!! For those who struggle, keep the faith - it will get better!!!

coasterqueen replied: I have to politely say something on the daycare issue. For me, personally when I pick a daycare it's someone that will do things the way I do them, I do not feel the need to conform to their ways of doing things. So it was never a factor in how I got my girls to sleep. I'm thankful I have a sitter that will do things my way, as the parent. If I wanted them to sleep a certain way, she did it, and that included holding them til they fell asleep.

So not everyone needs to think about the daycare, unless you choose a daycare center. You can choose someone that will adhere to your parenting, not theirs.

DansMom replied: Oh, I wasn't judging---like Karen said, I was just trying to answer the question of "how" and "when" we did things in our family, and why.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I agree Karen there are people out there that will. But, realistically, there are very few when you are talking about group and home centers. When I have 8 kids by myself to get to sleep, it's not something I can physically do. Other people who are more the "private sitter" type, it's easier for them because they don't have a lot of kids.

holley79 replied: Annika didn't sleep on her own. She slept on me/ with me when she was 8 weeks old. I was too exhausted to deal.

Boo&BugsMom replied: I will admit I loved it when Tanner would fall asleep on me. I loved feeling that closeness. He loved taking naps on us when he was first born up until his colic went away. I wasn't exhausted, I just didn't want to put him down, I always wanted to snuggle.

punkeemunkee'smom replied:
ITA with your statement!

I know not all parents like the idea of co-sleeping-to each their own but I def. feel that 8 weeks old is too young to cry/whine/whimper themselves to sleep alone in a bed. I know that as a new mom you are tired and in need of rest too You said co-sleeping is not for you but you may be surprised at the amount of sleep you and the baby actually gain if you tried it maybe even for daytime naps...With the reflux issue-I don't know about you but heartburn (even the mild cases I have ever been through) is enough to make me want to cry/scream/demand relief as a grown-up...I hate the thought of how bad it must hurt a baby My 6 foot 200 lb husband gets woken from a deep sleep with reflux and has to sit up to help get rid of it-If your son is going through any of that laying down may be the least comfortable thing for him.

lovemy2 replied: I posted more about his reflux, etc. on the other post that got taken off because it got out of hand...believe me, my son is not being left to scream, cry and wimper in pain due to relux...he is very loved and is held quite a bit - before, sometimes during and sometimes after he is asleep...and is a much much happier baby for what I am doing to help him go to sleep on his own...all of this was done after many conversations with his Ped about his overall health and well being....which by the way is always first and foremost in my mind - I am not concerned at all about whether or not I am sleeping enough, etc., in fact that has nothing to do with any of this.......he was sleeping through the nite before I started any of this...

Its too bad this too became a bit judgmental....

Calimama replied: I don't think any of what was said was judgmental. It's just other people's opinions.

coasterqueen replied: Again Christine, I do not think anyone is being judgmental. You asked a very tricky question IMO asking for info from those who don't think CIO is right at 8 weeks or whatever age. You HAD to have known you weren't going to get pats on the back for your methods in a thread like this. You simply asked what others did and that is what they told you. If it seemed judgmental, my thought is it's because it's not along the lines of what you believe, therefore you think people are judging you. If you are comfortable in your parenting styles, then what those in this post have said should not make you feel like you are being judged.

I simply offered my thoughts on reflux as to help you. You hadn't mentioned in the beginning that your baby had reflux or what the severity of it was. Actually I think you said it was severe, that is why I explained what I know my DD has gone through with sleeping and pain from reflux. Also, it's very hard to read babies cries and before we even had Megan's reflux diagnosed I had no idea all the screaming she did was from reflux, even after she was on the meds it was hard to tell. I think this is why others have said that maybe, just maybe it might be reflux.

I don't believe people are being judgemental, they are only offering you help, help and info you requested. You have to understand when you ask for advice, you are going to get advice you may not like. You then have to weed through it and decide what advice works best for you.

mysweetpeasWil&Wes replied:
I have to agree with Karen here. My post was not judging you, it was truly just offering my opinion about CIO and how I did it with my kids. I'm not saying that what I did works for everyone, nor saying what you do is bad. CIO is a very sensitive topic and it should be expected that we all would give differerent points of view.

Like Karen said, weed through the advice and decide what works best for you. You sound like an awesome mom! Don't let other's opinions get you down, k? It's usually nothing about you as an individual, just the topic (CIO) in general.

jem0622 replied: My oldest did not sleep through until he was 1 yr. But overall, I couldn't complain...he only woke every 4-6 hrs (that is sleeping through the night for a little one, btw).

My youngest DS was a horrible sleeper. He went to his own room when he hit about 6 mos. But I still went to him until he hit about 8 mos.

My twin daughters were a challenge. I put them in separate beds, in their own room, at 7 mos.

Everyone handles it differently. Everyone has their own comfort zone. I think that by at least 12 mos they should be sleeping through, or they should be figuring out how to do it. JMHO.

lovemy2 replied: I think I didn't do a very good job of explaining what I was doing with Dylan and used the term CIO very loosely....and while I know most people were truly posting their opinion, to me some seemed a bit judgmental, but again, that is my opinion. I am ok with what I am doing with Dylan and it is working and he is doing VERY well with it, and in the end that is what matters most to me.....

Thanks everyone for your advice....

luvmykids replied:
You're right, you are the best judge of what works for you guys.

My2Beauties replied:
OK, I have to say I agree w/ Karen. I know you say his reflux isn't as bad BUT....reflux is reflux. My DD had reflux nowhere near as bad as Megan but she, too, could not lay down flat in any crib or bassinette until she was nearly 6 months old. She had to be propped up all the time. So, when you say you know it's not his reflux, how can you honestly know, because nomatter how bad or not bad reflux is, that is the one thing babies w/ reflux cannot handle is laying down flat. Please don't think I'm being rude, b/c I'm not even talking about the CIO deal or any of that, I'm just saying that reflux is terribly painful to them. My DH has reflux episodes, I mean he very rarely gets them, so he doesn't have it bad but OMG when he does, you'd think he was dying. He turns pale, he has to double over, I mean he is in some horrible pain! REflux is no joke, regardless of how bad it is hon. I just wanted to let you know, it could seriously be reflux even if he isn't puking and all of that. Good luck and I hope he starts sleeping better for you