Dog questions - a little long

coasterqueen wrote: We are going to get a dog next spring. I know it's awhile off, but we have a lot of property to fence in so we are thinking about that issue now as well as all the other issues that go along with the responsibility of a dog. So I was hoping those dog owners on the board could give me insight before we even get one.

Right now we have about an acre and a half that is not wooded and 2 acres that are. The wooded areas lead down to the river. Have of the acreage that is not wooded is in front of the home and half of it is in back of the home. We are thinking of keeping the dog in the back part of our land (non-wooded area) and so that would be the area that needs to be fenced in somehow. We really want to go with a chain link fence or a wood fence since we need it to go up about 6 feet because there are lots of positives. It will keep other dogs/animals out of that area of our land so our dog would be safer from attacks. It would keep the deer out of our garden as well. The negatives is that the fence would be right up against the wooded areas so weeds would be a MAJOR problem with the fence. The other negative is our cousin's property is right next to ours and he uses part ours/part his to drive on to get his farm equipment out of storage which is in the back of our property. He also is going in and out of there and so are many of our family to take stuff to the "burn pile" with either trucks or back hoes (sp?). So even if we put a huge gate on that one side for them to go through, it's possible with the farm equipment and stuff that it won't be wide enough or that it will get damaged while trying to move through there. SO, we are thinking of going with the underground radio fence. That has negatives too because it doesn't keep other animals out of our yard, which means attacking our garden and the safety of our dog. Also I've heard that if a dog gets out of those type of "fences" they are afraid of coming back in of fear of getting shocked again. I also don't like the idea of shocking a dog, kwim?

The only other negative is the dog will have access to the garden.....so who knows what it would do with that.

So how do you keep your dog on your property? Especially for those who have quite a bit of acreage? We grew up with the policy that dogs should be able to roam free and what happens, happens. The problem is we've had major safety issues with a few neighbor dogs (attacking us viciously) and so we've complained to the neighbors that if they didn't keep their dogs in their yard we'd have to pursue the matter further. If their dogs weren't so mean and I wasn't afraid they'd attack our children I'd let their dogs roam free and not complain.

The other question is what kind of dog do you have? And how is that dog around children, etc? Any insight here would be helpful. A picture, even, if you have one available. I have a major fear of dogs because I was almost viciously attacked once and so it is important for me that we get a dog that LOOKS friendly. I know that sounds silly, but if a dog looks scary to me I go into major anxiety attack mode. We are tossing up the idea of a labrador or a saint bernard. We were worried about a dog with longer hair because of the access to the river (getting muddy, etc) but if they are going to be kept on our non-wooded acreage, I think we'll be fine either way.

TIA for your help and if you got through this long post.

ETA: our dog will be an outside dog. No dogs in house. I've never owned one that we kept inside. We'll take measures to keep the dog warm in the garage in the winter.

DVFlyer replied: Sounds to me like a fence is the best option and install a gate that can handle the traffic. E-fences work but the disadvantages you mention outweigh the conveniences of not having a fence.

Could you fence a smaller portion leaving the area your cousin needs to access?

I love my Aussie (who doesn't look mean at all. ), but any dog - correct that- any animal will bite given the right circumstance.

I'm not a fan of leaving dogs to roam but I'm sure there are plenty of seemingly happy dogs who never step foot into a house. My biggest issue with it is why have a dog that doesn't interact with their humans more than an occasional outing in the back yard.

Lots of good dog breeds out there. My opinion would be to find one that doesn't have a tendency to roam. i.e. Huskies LOVE to roam, so that would be a bad choice.

Best of luck.

coasterqueen replied:
We could fence a smaller portion, but then it would make the property seem "closed in" and closed off from other areas. We live in the country so we can feel like we have space - not closed in. So it would defeat the purpose. Although that is one of the issues i have with going with a fence - is feeling "closed in".

And as far as having a dog outside and occasionally visiting with them. Since we have quite a bit of land and we have to take care of it we are outside a LOT in spring, summer and fall. When we are not at work, we are outside until dark, if not later than that. So the only time the dog is not getting with us is after dark or while we sleep. Definitely would not be an "occasional" thing. Even when I lived in town as a kid, we were ALWAYS outside and our dog got a ton of attention. Winter will be the adjustment and who knows - I might be able to talk DH into having the dog inside more at that time....although if we went with a saint bernard the answer would definitely be a big fat no to that from him.

jcc64 replied: I guess I'm also a little perplexed by the fact that you don't plan to let the dog inside. Dogs are pack animals, and every aspect of their behavior spins out of that 1 simple fact. I don't know how happy a life the dog will have if he spends the majority of it in isolation, especially in the winter months. When you add up how much time you spend outdoors in the dead of winter, I don't imagine your dog would have much company for long stretches of time. The way to ameliorate that is to get two dogs, so they'll have each other, but I don't know if that's an option for you guys.
I've had dogs my whole life--lots of different kinds, but primarily larger dogs. I don't think the breed is nearly as significant as your leadership skills--any dog can behave as you want them to if you know how to successfully assume the position of pack leader. I currently have a pit bull and a lab, and both dogs would likely intimidate people who are not used to dogs, simply by virtue of their appearance. But they are both incredibly docile and submissive--I got to know their temperaments before we brought them into our home (as adult dogs), and then we trained them to be calm and submissive to us. Even Corey knows how to command respect from them. The pit bull is by nature a very energetic dog, and requires a lot of exercise, while the lab is a big lazy bones. Labs and goldens are very needy, Karen, and I don't think they're a good choice if you're planning on separating the dog from the family for long stretches of time. I would pick a more independent breed--what that is, I don't know, b/c we keep our dogs in the house and prefer more social breeds. I'm also a HUGE advocate for rescuing shelter animals--I don't see the reason in paying big money for a purebred when you can save a life for practically nothing. And if you're really dead set on a purebred, there are rescue organizations that adopt out specific breeds--I'm sure a quick search on petfinder would lead you to those people.
Good luck.

coasterqueen replied:
Thanks for your thoughts, Jeanne.

I have owned dogs all the way up until I went off to college. They were ALWAYS outside dogs, even in the winter. I am not opposed to bringing a dog inside for the winter, but it will depend. The dogs I grew up with just had a dog house in winter. Ours will have the warmth of a heated garage, for sure. I know this may sound like I am mean, but it's how I grew up and I always loved my dogs and they always seemed happy and loved me. I only had one dog fenced in, the rest roamed free. I have owned a lab before, as well - so I know how they are. We always gave our dogs all the attention we could and never felt like we weren't. Our dogs went camping, went on trips with us. We didn't leave them at home or in boarding places.

I appreciate all the feedback from everyone, but I didn't want this to be a discussion of why I should or shouldn't keep my dog from being inside. I wanted to know how you keep your dog on your property when they are outside. What kind of dog you have, insight on raising a dog, per se, not my choices for keeping my dog outside. I grew up with dogs all my life and never had ONE issue of my dogs living outside. You can tell when an animal is unhappy or not and mine never were.

mom21kid2dogs replied: You might consider a dog who is already acclamated to being an outside dog through craigslist. I see dogs on there occasionally who are advertised as "outdoor" dogs (meaning they've always been kept outdoors). Also, by getting a dog who is out of his puppyhood, you would have a much better idea of that dogs temperment and energy level. Puppies are akin to babies in the amount of time and energy they take up which to me is so not worth it. So much so that I doubt I'll ever own a puppy again.
Although we've never had an outdoor dog, we had a Briard as a child. She was a very boundry oriented dog and never left the yard. Although never trained to do so, we always walked her off lead. She was very energetic and loved to romp & play. She was very attached to us, though and was an indoor dog. Not sure how she would have fared as an outside dog. Also, basic rule of thumb for me is "the bigger the dog the more important the training". Although all dogs profit from basic obedience, bigger dogs, merely by their size can do more "damage" than smaller ones. They dig bigger holes, knock your kids down in play, etc. They need a leader.

ETA: You might want to consider fencing in your garden if you aren't interested in fencing the entire yard. Seems like they all love that soft earth to dig in!

coasterqueen replied: BTW, I didn't mean to sound mean (I'm always taken in the wrong context it seems ) by my last paragraph about not wanting to discuss the inside/outside issue. It's just that I've dealt with that issue my whole life, so I feel comfortable with that in how we would raise a dog. It's something my sitter (who has a ton of dogs, is a breeder) and I talk about since she's so different on how does should be raised than me.

I appreciate everyone's advice, because that is what I came to this thread for...was advice. So please don't take offense to that last para. and thank you for posting.

coasterqueen replied:
THanks. Yeah, I definitely need to think about my garden and how a dog will have fun with it . We thought about putting the underground radio fencing around it. We are also go to definitely do dog training with whatever kind of dog we get. We've done that with our past two dogs I had as a teenager. Three of our dogs growing up were puppies when we got them and they were outside dogs. We never had a problem with them being outdoors and knowing their boundaries after training them. Our other dog we had was a smaller dog (the other three were much bigger (labs and such) and she was in a fenced yard.

coasterqueen replied: nevermind.

coasterqueen replied: I'm curious, for those of you who keep your dogs inside...do you keep them locked up all day while you are gone? Mine always roamed free to run and hunt.

mom21kid2dogs replied:
I've never crated a dog, not because of any objection to it, just never fit our "style". We did use puppy gates to cordon them off to a specific room when they were babies and would destroy the house if we were gone. After they were house safe (1 or 2 years old, depending on the dog) they have free reign of the house~meaning they can go anywhere inside the house when we are not here~that usually means our bed .

cameragirl21 replied: I would get more than one dog if you keep them outside. I too am more inclined to keep animals inside but that is a personal preference.
I would pick a golden but like Jeanne said, they are very family oriented and won't be happy outside.
Maybe get a Scottie? There are Scottie rescues where you can get one that needs a home. They are never mean and are very dignified, I don't think they'd dig up your garden but they are smaller dogs and may not fare well all by themselves outside on a lot of land.
Another good option is a beagle.
If you have a very big space and want the dog outside all the time then you really almost would need two dogs or one may feel lost on all that land...is having 2 dogs an option for you?

Momof3inMe replied: We have a golden retriever he is 1. He is a great family dog. He loves the kids and he really does love to be outside. He does great to stay in our yard when we are out with him. He does go out on a run when we are not home and the weather is nice. I have to say he is really a lazy dog when we are gone he sleeps most of the time.

mckayleesmom replied: I would definantly go with a fence. Nowadays people will call the pound on your dog if you let it roam and you can get fined.

When I was growing up our dogs were also outdoor dogs...I never had a dog that lived indoors or was even allowed in growing up, but that was California where it isn't too cold. If Gunner wasn't such a baby he would be an outdoor dog.. Our dogs also got tons of attention because we were very outdoor kids. Kids were expected to play outside when I was growing up..

Gunner is an English Springer Spaniel..http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=hp-psdt&va=english+springer+spaniel

He is great with kids, loves to run around outside with them and is very protective of them. We have a chain link fence and sometimes the kids will climb over to visit the neighbors and help them Garden...It drives Gunner nuts when his babies are not in his yard. He will usually come back in the house and tell me if they climbed the fence. He has never bitten or even attempted too.

His only flaw is his seperation anxiety, but he usually calms a while after we leave, but will cry again when he hears us come home. He also doesn't like to be seperated from the family. If the kids go in a door and close it blocking him off, it upsets him because he can't protect them. He loves his kids.

Usually I let him and Lucy ouside to potty right before we go anywhere and usually I put them in my bedroom or the Garage when we leave the house.


Lucy is just a diva...

DVFlyer replied: Ginger is allowed in the house while I'm at work, but we limit her wandering. We go outside to play when I get home from work.

I'm sure you could train your dog to stay within the boundaries established without a fence, but it would be a lot of work. Although given that you work outside, I think the dog would get used to being around you and in the end you would probably not need a fence.

Honestly, if you work outside that much and the dog is running around with you (pulling a cart maybe?) that would be enough "outside" time. The dog could be left in a crate when you come in and then be let out in the morning.

For dogs living outside in that large of an area, I'd get two dogs if only so they would have each other to rely on in case of a threat from outside your property.

I would not worry about the dog and the garden. I've heard rumors where a dog mimics it's owner's digging by digging so perhaps you'd want to not let the dog see you digging in the garden but otherwise they seem to have plenty of other areas.

I guess a small fence around your garden would help keep them out, but so would training. :0

jcc64 replied: First off, I would definitely NOT get a beagle--they are big time wanderers. (and their bark is incredibly annoying, imo)
In response to your question about indoor dogs, during the warmer months, I leave my screen door open--my dogs know how to open it from both sides--so they can come and go as they please. I have one small section of my yard (about .3 acre) fenced in for them, so they can't annoy the neighbors. I used to just let them roam until a dog hater moved in next door, who threatened to report us to whomever it is you report neighbors to for violating leash laws. So now they don't go anywhere beyond the yard unless we're with them.
I don't crate them--one is 14, the other one is 3--when we're not here, they just sleep. The only reason I'd feel the need to crate a dog is if they weren't housebroken or are in the destructive puppy phase, and we never get puppies, so it's a non-issue for us.

coasterqueen replied:
I've had a golden (retriever?) before, too. They are great dogs. We have always only had one dog at a time out in the country w/never any problems. I take that back, there was one time when we had two dogs (mom and daughter), but they never spent time together. Seriously. Mom liked to stay close to home and lounge around. Daughter liked to roam and explore the country.

Small dogs? Well, I'd love a small dog, but I'm afraid they are just no match for most of the dogs out here. I know this all sounds silly, maybe even terrible to most of you that read this, but we grew up letting our dogs roam free, letting them defend themselves and cohabitate (sp?) with all the other dogs in the area. Again, sounds harsh, but that's how I grew up - a bit "country" I guess. Although for those others on the board that live in the country, that is not how they may have grown up. I mean for me, keeping a dog in the house all day seems more harsh because they have no where to go, except the square footage of your home. They can't hunt, roam, do what they want. In that sense, I'm glad I'm not a dog. So some may not see my side, and the same goes for me.

coasterqueen replied:
Awww, that looked just like my Princess, but she had just a hint more of red in her. ETA: Thank you for sharing!

coasterqueen replied:
That's funny. Wish I could figure out how to get one to help us do yard work. We aren't always doing yard work outside - well on the weekends most definitely we are. But we are just outside, sitting out on the deck/patio, kids in the pool or out on the playground on the swingset or bounce house. Or we are playing ball, riding bikes, etc, etc. Working in the garden and such. You know, doing all those things we can't do in the winter. We are inside to eat dinner, and Ryan and I will be inside after the girls go to bed and we have finished outside - when we'll watch a show before bed. So yes, we are outside a LOT.

Ryan and I aren't opposed to letting the dog come inside some, just not all day while we are gone. Although, like I said if we get a saint bernard it's not coming inside if it drools a lot.

We do plan to have someone come out and train our dog with the underground fence if we go that direction. My SIL did that for her itty bitty yard in a subdivision and it worked out well. Then we'll take classes as well.

I dunno, when we were growing up and had outside dogs....it wasn't this hard. They'd stay in the garage at night as puppies, roam during the day and there was no worries about training them to do this or that. Although we did take 2 of them to training school.

ETA: I don't know that we are opposed to getting 2 dogs, either, but I know it's been difficult to convince Ryan to go with one and for good reasons.

Calimama replied: Well my dog wouldn't not be the right fit. She's a dachshund, terrier, chihuahua mix. We got her right before her owners dumped her at the pound because they didn't want to potty train her. She's an indoor dog obviously, or she'd be coyote food. But she's never crated. She roams free and we usually find her sleeping inside Bella's pillow case. She doesn't look scary though! This is her when we got her a few months ago.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Lucy is a Puggle (1/2 beagle, 1/2 pug). She is an inside dog, but she does love to be outside when the sun is out and it's warm. She is outside a lot in the summer by her own choice. She likes to lay on the deck in the sun. Having my dog indoors means a lot to me, but I know not everyone feels the same way. I grew up with dogs too and they were all indoors, so it probably has to do with what you've been accustomed to your whole life. I like the way Lucy curls up with us at night and I like the constant companionship. She's always at my feet, and even though sometimes it's annoying , it's also heartwarming in the relationship it creates. Lucy is also an indoor dog mainly because we live in the city. We have a little less than a half acre of land without a fence. Lucy usually goes outside on a tie-out (20-30 feet long). We recently started letting her off her tie-out if we are around to watch her. We will play fetch with a ball, etc. We have to be right there though, because her beagle nose will get the best of her and she'll take off at the slightest scent she picks up. I wish we did have a fence. Perhaps in the future.

My sister and brother in-law have outdoor dogs. They live on a few acres and in the country. The dogs they have are hunting dogs, even though they aren't used a lot for hunting. They are German Shorthairs. Ike, who passed away awhile ago was SUCH a good dog. He was so gentle and obedient, a great family dog, but also tolerated the outdoors well. They have a large dog kennel for them and a dog house. In the winter they bring them indoors when the temp is too cold to be outside.

Due to Troy and I working opposite shifts Lucy is generally not home alone regularly. When she is, depending on the amount of time we are gone, she will be crated or roam the house. We started with the crate when we had potty training issues. Using the crate helped correct that (knock on wood). I would like to slowly gain trust in letting her roam the house though, because all the dogs I had growing up never had a crate so I've never been a crate loving person. If I'm gone for an hour or less I'll let her roam the house as long as I know she shouldn't have to go potty. If it's for a few hours or more we will crate her. But, like I said, it's not regularly because there is usually someone home, especially during the work week.

I don't let her outside when nobody is home because we've had dog theft around here and Lucy is classified as a "designer" dog. I'm also afraid she'll get free and take off...because her nose works before her brain.

DVFlyer replied: Dogs adapt... they will be fine. When we bought Ginger, the breeder kept all of her "show" dogs outside. I asked about how they slept in the cold (cold for us would be 30's) and she said she's given them blankets, dog houses etc and many times she'd come out to find them laying on the hard concrete sound asleep in the cold.

I think there is lot of pressure for people to assimilate dogs into their "pack". Who knows if that is right or wrong (I use those principles). It doesn't sound like that is a goal of yours so I wouldn't worry about it... no offense intended.

Totally understand about the drool.... my wife HATES drooling dogs. It took all I could to convince her to let Ginger in the house (on the tile) because a drop of saliva might fall from her mouth... but, of course, when the kids grind peanut butter and jelly into the carpet, I don't see them being crated...

Lots of good dogs.... for me, Goldens are too "normal". Not to mention two of the three Labs I know are very aggressive... one had to be put down because of it.

What about an Alaskan Malamute? I wanted one of those SO bad.. until I found out they can pull 3,000lbs! Try holding that guy on a leash.

DVFlyer replied:
Dogs can be trained to do almost anything. My trainer has a harness and cart for her Aussies. When she goes to buy food, the food is loaded into the cart and the dog pulls it to the cash register and then out to her truck... works for it's food.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Aww, beagles are my favorite! I always had beagles...and I LOVE their howl.

In your case Karen though, I agree with Jeanne. If you want a dog that will stay in the yard properly and not take off on you...a beagle would not be for you. Even though Lucy is only 1/2 beagle...she certainly has 100% of the beagle nose.

coasterqueen replied:
OMG, that dog is seriously cute! I told Dh that when the kids are grown and gone I'll have a teeny tiny indoor dog for myself. Right now the house is cramped enough w/just the 4 of us.

Calimama replied:
Thanks! I love her... DH wasn't a fan. People ask if we have a dog and he says, "no but we have a hairy rodent my wife keeps as a pet.". He loves her now though.. and has even stopped calling her a purse puppy.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I LOVE Malamutes too. They are so pretty and really are gentle giants. I don't know much about their territorial behaviors, but a friend of mine has one and it's a great family dog and is very obedient.

When Troy and I were looking for a dog he wanted a pug, and I said no because of the drooling factor. Ick!!!! I hate drooly dogs. So, that is when we saw Lucy and compromised...I wanted a beagle and he wanted a pug. Thank GOD she doesn't drool! She does however get foam around her nose when she gets super excited.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Here's our Lu-Lu.

coasterqueen replied:
Ooh, if I remember what those dogs look like, they look scary to me. I'll have to check it out.

We've always had golden labs, golden retrievers and we had to peekapoo mixes as well. We do want something "different" which is why we thought about the saint bernard. Ryan's mom had one when he was younger and when he'd visit he said that was the best dog ever. Personally, I think it's because he likes the visual thought of the saint bernard with a whisky barrel around it's neck. Of course he'd never do it, but he would think that was awesome!

Calimama replied:
Ohhhh her face is soooooo sweet. That makes me want to get Lexi a buddy.. but DH would never go for it.

coasterqueen replied:
I LOVE our neighbors beagle. She is so sweet. Unfortunately our cousin doesn't believe in the roaming free theory and puts her in a small dog kennel 24/7 Finally this year he let her out on a long leash/tie-out. Poor dog. She is VERY hyper, but I think if she got the attention she deserved she wouldn't be as bad. Now her howling....she wakes me up EVERY TIME she barks in the middle of the night. It used to annoy me, but I've gotten used to it now.

coasterqueen replied:
Dh thinks little dogs look like hairy rodents too!

coasterqueen replied:
She's beautiful!!!

Now since she's 1/2 pug do you have to be concerned about the breathing issue? I don't see her nose caved in as much. I know my sitter's pug (I LOVED that dog!) died recently and I believe she just couldn't breath anymore. They had a machine for her, etc for her breathing problems (nose issue)

Boo&BugsMom replied:
They are still slightly prone to breathing issues (although not as much due to her "normal" nose and mixed breed) so that is something we have to watch. She does have a slight case of asthma (only had 2 small attacks though), but beagles are also known for asthma as well. Her nose and face aren't caved in (thank God )....that is one thing I told Troy...no pug or puggle with a smooshed face! I just can't get over that flat face feature.

DVFlyer replied:
Vicious!!!!! (don't mean to downplay your fear. ).

cameragirl21 replied:
You don't have that white dog anymore...called Kasha, or something to that effect?

cameragirl21 replied: I should add, I am a big fan of German Shepherds but if you don't want a dog that looks scary, scratch those off your list.
I also like Rottweilers, but they too, look scary.
I love huskies and golden retrievers.
Ohhh, maybe you could get a Great Pyrenees? Here is what they look like, they adapt well to Northern climates, it is too hot for them here.
disclaimer--this is not a picture I took:
http://www.mypets.net.au/upload/flex_img/1...08112710_01.jpg

coasterqueen replied:
Those look scary to me for some reason too. So do the others you mentioned, except the retrievers. I have major dog fear issues, that I know I'll have to overcome when we get one.

It was a chow mix that had me running faster than I thought I ever could one time and it viciously attacked my cat

coasterqueen replied:
They remind me of a husky that my cousins had.....they scared me.

luvmykids replied: I didn't read all the replies

We tried the 3-fence, it takes some training, it's not just the jolt alone that teaches them to stay away....otherwise, if they really want to, they jump it and suck up the shock

I don't know how you teach dogs to stay home, ours just do. With the exception of Bogie, who maybe once a week likes to go explore if he can without getting caught (which is unusual, I usually see him head off farther than usual and holler at him to come back), but Harley and Stevie never leave the place. They seem to just "know" somehow. Bogie, we do leave him either tied up if we'll be gone a short time, or in the office longer since he's the one who might take off on us. But when we're home, they're outside, we do have fencing but it's split rail and they can get through it.

I honestly believe it has something to do with the pack mentality, I guess we're just such a tight knit pack they stay home since that's where we are Although, it wouldn't explain why they stay home even when we don't. I'm giving myself a headache

lovemy2 replied: I didn't read all the posts - my experience is this - we have a German Shepherd - very protective and mine is awesome with kids - some aren't - every breed of dog has its good and bad points - but I do agree with whoever said if you are doing an outside dog maybe consider getting 2 so they keep each other company - dogs like to be with people - if you want an outside dog get a big one - if you want an inside dog get a small one!! We have invisible fence - you can make the area as big or small as you want - it works great for us - the down side I would see from an outside dog is in the winter having to go out to feed it, etc. and even naturally outside dogs - like say a husky want to be with people at some point - not that you would just leave it out there but they do get lonely - of course - mine is a spoiled rotten beast who is the biggest baby ever - she can't handle being outside without us for nothing -

Good luck - dogs are wonderful companions for the whole family - my kids love love love our dog - she is 10 now and I am getting worried about the day she goes...it will be horrible...

Have fun picking it out and ya for you being responsible and thinking it through

DVFlyer replied: Here's a question that totally doesn't pertain to this thread's purpose...

Why do you want a dog?

coasterqueen replied:
Good question. Not sure if I'll give you the answer you would think I should. The girls have been asking for a dog for at least 2 years now. We've always said no because we had our cat, Smokey, who is now deceased. Even before Smokey died we told them we'd consider a dog next Spring. So one reason is they want one and I don't want to deny them of that -- I always had a dog growing up. The second reason, and it might not be a good one to some, but is we want a dog to keep away moles, etc, out of our yard. Our cat was always great at doing that and now she's gone. If we don't have something to control them.....well we have acreage and those things take over, believe me. Yes, there are other means to control them but none that were very successful for us. The third reason isn't so much as for protection, but to alarm us of potential problems on our property - such as the vicious dog across the street whom because of that dog we can't let our children play out in the front acreage by themselves and most times can't let them out in the backyard for the same reason. I don't want our dog to attack that dog, just let us know, as well as let us know if strangers are on our property. That issue usually doesn't happen, though. And most of all we'd like to add another member to our family, just not anymore children. Ryan and I have always had animals of some sort since dating as well, so we both have ALWAYS had a pet. So we will love our dog just as much as we've loved all of our other pets.

I guess I wonder why you ask that question. Isn't it the same for a lot of people? Are you asking because I will choose to keep my dog outside versus inside and therefore it seems to be more of a disconnect from the family? If so that is totally not true. Again, as someone who has always had a dog (until she got married, lol) -- outside dogs no less -- there has never been a disconnect from the rest of the family and our dogs were always part of our family and well loved.

Ryan and I discussed it a bit more in length and we will keep an open mind to having 2 dogs. Thanks everyone for your replies. You gave us a lot to think about and that's good. I also enjoyed all the dog pics.

My2Beauties replied:
Well scratch out my suggestion I was going to say Great Pyrenees too because my dad has one, they arei n the St Bernard family and actually look just like them with white hair. They are gorgeous dogs. My dad has one and my mom had one for a while inside and he was too big to be inside the house, so she had to give him to a guy who owned a farm and could let him roam. Pyrenees LOVE outdoors and they LOVE cold weather. Like St Bernards they are mountain dogs and rescue dogs so the cold weather is no problem for them. Toby (Dad's Pyrenees) doesn't want to come in when asked half the time He'd rather lounge around outside. He is extremely gentle, loving, affectionate, he does not jump up on people, he was very easy to train, and he LOOOOOOOVES kids. His girlfriend's brother raises them, he has 3 or 4 that are outside all the time and they all have that same temperment. Very easy-going, laid back, fun-loving, and loves the outdoors. Karen if you can seriously get past their looks (they really do look like St Bernards) they are extremely loving dogs and perfect for outdoors. Toby looks like a big ol' teddy bear I think.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
You were scared for a good reason....that is the kind of dog that bit me when I was 11 and gave me 75 stitches to the side of my face. My face was literally ripped off. Thank God it has healed nicely and it only resembles something like the one Tina Fay has...only on the opposite side. I can still remember every second of that attack. I'm surprised I even like dogs still as much as I do. If it wasn't for growing up with good ones I'd probably have a different perspective.

coasterqueen replied:
I am so sorry that happened to you. My aunt was attacked by a vicious dog when she was little and she was not as lucky -- the scars on her face are still prominent.



This chow attacked me as an adult, luckily I got away, but barely. A few days later he attacked and almost killed my cat. Ever since that time I've been deadly afraid of dogs

coasterqueen replied:
I guess they are not really that scary looking. They are somewhat cute, I guess.

What I worry about with them and with saint bernards is heat. While we have cold winter months we also have HOT summer months. Not sure if these two breeds can withstand that? There is shade in the backyard for them, but still...it gets hot.

jcc64 replied: Hey Karen, if you like St Bernards you might want to also check out Burmese Mountain dogs. Not quite as big and slobbery, but similar in a lot of ways.
Ita that dogs should be allowed to roam or be outside exploring as much as possible, btw. When I'm not home, my dogs are out unless it's really cold. I don't think being inside all the time is the best life for a dog, either. My mom lives in the suburbs and treats her dogs like children, and they are awful dogs as a result. So, I don't think people are being as judgmental as you may think about your indoor/outdoor thing. Just a lot of food for thought, which is always a good thing before you get a dog. To me, it sounds like you're being very deliberate and careful about this move, and I'm sure as a result you'll wind up with the right dog(s) for your situation. Good luck.

coasterqueen replied:
Thanks, Jeanne. I will look at that breed as well. And yes, we are really taking a lot of time to think about this because once we get a dog, it's ours. We aren't taking it back no matter what. I can't take back the kids when they are bad, so.... So if we try to pick the best possible fit for our family now, the better for later. I am a little fearful about the treating like children thing, because we have always treated our animals like family, like they are just like us and I know a lot of breeds can't handle that. They have to know who is master and I'm not sure we can do that. So maybe we'll need to be trained as well.

moped replied:
Totally LOVE this dog DVFlyer!!!!!!! I had 2 once (with an ex bf) and they are WONDERFUL!

I love the big dog!

coasterqueen replied: Jeanne, did you notice the Bernese Mountain dog only has a life expectancy of 6 to 8 years? Of course the Great Pyrnees and Saint Benard only have a life expectancy of 8 to 10 S.B. is our first choice and what we really want, but the life expectancy is an issue for us, so we'll see.

My2Beauties replied:
My dad and his GF's brother live in Alabama and it gets unbelievably hot there and he does just fine outside even in the heat, and their winter months are nothing like Illinois I'm sure and he is still just fine, but he LOVES when it gets cold there, my dad said when they got a little bit of snow this year he couldn't get Toby to come inside, he rolled around in the snow all day . Just make sure they have some shade, plenty of water, and you may want to let them romp and play in a sprinkler or hose I think that's so cute when dogs play in water

cameragirl21 replied: The bigger the dog, the shorter the life expectancy.
Our German Shepherd lived to be 12, almost 12.5. That is about normal for a GSD.
Great Danes only live to be 8 or so.
If you want a dog that lives a really long life, you'd need to get a yappy little thing, like a Pom or a Yorkie...of course those have been overbred and that can cause congenital defects...you just can't win, get a medium sized mutt and then you'll have a better chance of a long life.

DVFlyer replied: I asked why you wanted a dog because I wanted to know if YOU knew why you wanted a dog. ... and I was interested.

Yes, people have many of the same reasons. Keeping your dog outside or inside is your business. I've tried to be cordial in my opinion on that subject (i.e. "I'm not a fan"), so there was no hidden "you keep your dog outside and you suck" agenda behind my question....

Keeping a dog for an alarm is a good idea, but you have pack structure all wrong (or I do) if you expect your dog to warn you about the aggressive dog but not fight it. If your dog is not willing to fight that other dog to protect your family, you don't want that dog. Otherwise, it will step in line behind the aggressive dog and let it do what it wants.

All of this, of course, is very grey. None of us know what will happen until it happens. We only know our opinion. There are dog forums where you could pose your question (leerburg.com) and get an answer by people who have not only had dogs for years, but have trained them and know their personalities.

IMO- get the dog you want and be happy. There are more opinions than there are right answers and you'll get whole lot more of the former than the latter so do what you want and be happy.

And post pictures...

coasterqueen replied:
Oh no DvFlyer, I think my post came out in a totally different tone than I felt it when I wrote it. I'm fine with you asking me about why I'd want one and I'm truly fine with you giving your opinion on inside or outside. I only commented on that originally because I didn't want it to be where everyone was posting I should go with inside, kwim? I didn't want it to turn south. I did, however, wonder as I stated if that is why you asked the question and I only wondered because I've gotten the comments before (not here) about wanting an outside dog for terrible reasons (as protection was one of them). I appreciate the questions and the opinions/answers to all my questions or I wouldn't have brought this to the board. So thank you for your honesty and discussion on this topic.

Neither one of us has the pack thing wrong. I know that more than likely our dog would alarm us to another dog and more than likely try to fight it. I know that will happen and hopefully it would turn out ok. I remember my father telling us to never get attached to pets because they don't live long out there.....sometimes he was right, and sometimes he was wrong...and we always got attached anyways...even him. But as Ryan has explained to the girls (like when smokey died) it is the circle of life and animals are going to get attacked and die and even though it makes us sad to lose a part of our family, we still have to accept it. Sounds harsh, I know. Of course he said it in a more kind, gentler way to the girls.

DVFlyer replied: Cool.

Speaking getting attached.... Chloe's kitten just got out.... watch for my post.