Did you know...

Crystalina wrote: This is about the Bible but I don't think it's a debateable topic unless you just want to argue about something.

Did you know there was a Gospel According to Mary Magdelin that was never in put into the bible. I think it was because it was written so many years later. I watched a show on Mary Magdelin and found this out. I thought it was very interesting to know that.

cameragirl21 replied: Isn't that what was said in The Da Vinci Code?
great book btw.

TheOaf66 replied: oh it is debatable alright...where's your source, did MM even exist?, what are the pretenses behind this?

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holley79 replied: I saw something on the History Channel about her not to long ago that was pretty interesting and I do remember a mention.

Bamamom replied: There are all sorts of gospels out there - even a gospel according to Judas wherein he claims that God told him that his (Judas's) role in history was to be the one to betray Christ.

TheOaf66 replied:
uh huh, he is a long lost decendent of Son of Sam who's dog told him to kill people

Bamamom replied:

Crystalina replied:
As Holly said I'm thinking it was The History Channel.

Here's a quick link I just found that mentions it.

That show was so very interesting. Apparently she was the "highest" apostle Jesus had but the men never really accepted her due to her sex. I never knew that either until watching that. I'm sure most of us have heard that he may or may not have been married to her but it states in the Bible that he looked at her as he was dying and said "...here is your mother" (speaking of his mother and meaning now that he was gone she would be there for Mary). Apparently (from the show) the Jewish women regard their MIL's as their mother as well which would mean he would have married her at some point to make that statement. BTW, he also looked at his mother and said, "...here is your daughter". Then Mary M., Mary and Joseph lived together until all three of them eventually died.


Jennifer, I'm not sure what is in the Da Vinci Code because I've never seen it or read it.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
There were actually many other books written, as well as a gospel of Judas , but they didn't meet the criteria for the Bible which is why they are not included. One of the criteria was that they had to be written by a disciple of Christ.

5littleladies replied:
Actually Jesus said this to the disciple John. He said to His mother "Woman behold thy son" and to John he said "Behold thy mother".

Crystalina replied: Apparently she was the highest Apostle.

It also stated in the show the she was the one who carried on his work and basically lit a fire under everyone to remember his teachings.

Crystalina replied:
I haven't actually read that in the Bible but I'm sure you're right. I just have a bad memory and am not quick to find certain quotes. It takes me sometimes all day!

But...the show stated he said this to Mary M. because they were trying to prove the point that they must have married at some time. Maybe the shows wrong?

Crystalina replied: I'm going to have to read the Da Vinci Code. I didn't know Mary M. was in the painting of the last supper!

holley79 replied:
I didn't know that either. I have the Da Vinici Code but I have yet to read it.

Crystalina replied:
Well I read a bit more and it never really mentions her I guess. Another speculation I guess but it's clearly a woman sitting to his right. Who else would it be?

link

PrairieMom replied:
I agree it looks like a woman, but really, it isn't a snapshot of an event, its an artists interpretation of the event. Its not like Devinci was really there or anything, so how would he know?

holley79 replied: Your right, who else could the woman be?

kit_kats_mom replied:
Great book. I really enjoyed it. Of course I read it over Christmas break at my in-laws house (it was an electronic copy so they had no idea what I was reading), but I felt like such a rebel to be reading it in their house. I'm so wicked.

5littleladies replied:
Exactly. I'm sorry, but a painting by da Vinci is not something I'd choose to rely on for who was at the last supper-I'll stick with the Bible for that. And if you would like another explanation for the "feminine" look of the person sitting next to Jesus I found this interesting- http://arthistory.about.com/od/renaissance...eyoungdudes.htm.

Crystalina replied:
You are 100% correct. I guess it's something that will never be solved. I mean really, how can it be? I think it's like so many other things in the Bible. Read and learn and believe what you would like to.
I like to think it's Mary.

Here's another very interesting link to the last supper painting.

~Roo'sMama~ replied:
ITA.

Besides, there are a couple others in the painting that looks feminine... he even makes Jesus look like a girl! That's just the way art was then. But even if he meant for it to be Mary Magdalene and not John, that doesn't make it true.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Also remember that the Divinci Code was protested by many Christians because it gives a false interpretation. If God wanted those books in the Bible, they would have gotten there somehow...but they didn't. I haven't seen it...the movie that is. Not for any specific reasons, just didn't look great to me I suppose. I have heard it's a good movie though.

cameragirl21 replied:
ok, i'm going to steal a page from the other jennifer's (4littleladies) playbook and preface this by saying--no debating here--but how do you know God didn't purposely give Dan Brown the idea to write that book (The Da Vinci Code) and make it wildly successful so as to create a movie and thereby put the information out there because it was suppressed in the first place? I can't presume to know what God has in mind but that is an option too if you're going to assume that God puts out there what God wants.
Also, the Da Vinci Code was protested by Christians not because it gives a false interpretation but rather because Christians did not like his interpretation. There is no such thing as a false interpretation because an interpretation is merely someone's outlook and cannot be right or wrong, it's just another idea.
I read the book and saw the movie and thought both were brilliant. I don't agree with everything Dan Brown suggests but I've always suspected much of what he wrote, that I won't get into here so as not to offend but you should not discount his interpretation simply because you don't like it, he offers many good points and much food for thought, which I'm sure was his intention when he wrote the book.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Sorry, but I have to just strongly disagree. Like you said, no debating, but I strongly disagree. You have to be very careful of false teachings, and Satan is very clever in disguising them as a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Crystalina replied:
ITA. I'm a Christian and from what I've scanned online I doubt I would protest it. It's an idea. As I said before, we really can't argue any of this. Not one of us will find a way to make what we say true. It's all in what you like to believe. I was merely pointing out certain points that the show made about Mary M. and her importance (they believe) to Christ. She was more then just a prostitute who found her way IMO. I think she was very close to Christ, close enough to have married him and have his child. That can be debated until the end of time though.

cameragirl21 replied:
ok, no debating but how do you know what is false teachings and what isn't? you trust a pastor or bible study teacher or whom ever but maybe Dan Brown is God's personal messenger on Earth for all we know.
you've been taught a certain thing and so have billions of other individuals so of course you are going to protest when someone pokes holes in the theory and offers up new ideas.
the best test and testament of your faith, imo, is exposing yourself to new ideas, even if they seem bothersome and then knowing in your heart what is right and wrong. i didn't want to watch Mel Gibson's The Passion because i didn't think i'd like it (and i didn't like it) but i watched it with an open mind because i believe in exposing myself to other ideas instead of dismissing them just because they don't jive with my own.

jem0622 replied: Um....er.....okay. Never heard of that!

Celestrina replied: One thing that I find hard to believe about Mary M. being represented in The Last Supper is that all 12 apostles were at the last supper. Count the heads - there are 12 people not including Jesus. Here is a link that shows who is who and an explanation why one is appears to be a girl: Last Supper

holley79 replied:
Well I plan on reading it sooner or later. It's just collecting dust actually at this time. I may have to read it just to see.

maestra replied: I was watching a special on this today on the National Geographic Channel. I was raised Catholic, but have since left, so some of my religious ed classes have muddled in my brain. Perhaps Catholics on the board can enlighten me- aren't there more books in the Catholic Bible than in the Protestant Bible? I thought I remember there being something about the books not being accepted by all (such as the Mary Magdeline one) and are therefore not in the Protestant Bible. Does anyone know?

5littleladies replied:
Yep-it's called the Apocrypha. I'm not sure which books specifically are included, but that is what they are called as a whole.

maestra replied:
Are the books in the old testament only, or in the new testament as well? Or is it completely separate....I told you, it's been a looooong time!

Boo&BugsMom replied:
If you don't want to debate, then why do you keep coming back and repeating yourself instead of letting someone just have their opinion? Just because you say "no debating" doesn't mean it comes across any differently. In answer to your question...because God's Word is never-changing. I don't think you'd understand this whole thing, being you're not a Christian. No offense. It's not about interpretation of the Bible, it's about ONLY believing in what the Bible says, period. Interpreting things IN the Bible differently is one thing (all denominations have their own interpretation), but taking things from other sources that have nothing to do with the Bible in order to twist the TRUTH from the Bible is clearly another. In that case, YES it is a false interpretation, and both non-Christians and Christians alike fall for it, which makes me sad. No different than stupid Oprah's "New Earth" crap. It's a false spin on Christianity. It's not about a "theory", it's about what is truth, and any hard-core TRUE Christian is going to believe what they read in the Bible over anything else...and use it for reference and refer back to it for the true answers. If it contradicts what is in the Bible, then it's considered false by the Christian faith. Period.

After this I am not going to reply like this anymore because I am really tired of the "no debating". Puleeze. At least I will TRY really hard not to.

Crystalina replied: Well I'm a Catholic and even though Sister Mary Carol (God rest her soul) tried to literally drill God's word into me I still didn't get it all. As an adult I read the Bible one way and someone else reads it different. Even though Mary M. (which is really what this thread is about) had smaller parts in the actual Good Book itself I have to believe that she had a bigger purpose in Christ's life. I see nothing wrong with thinking that. These "theories" are pretty good ones. I see nothing wrong with wondering what else happened after this or that. I'm sure Jesus came into contact with many prostitutes in his quest to help others but why did only one latch on to his skirt tail and follow him until his death? I see nothing wrong with people and their "theories". They hurt no one. My theories will not change what is already written in the Bible nor should they change the way someone looks at their faith. What does theory or studying them hurt?

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Oh Crystal, I am not saying that it hurts or is wrong, I am just saying when it contradicts what the Bible says it is. Totally different, IMO. I also think that there are many questions though that are not meant for us to know the answer to. I didn't mean to offend you or come across as a "better Christian"...not one bit, I'm truly sorry if it came across that way. I just don't want people to get a distorted picture, is all.

Crystalina replied: It made me think that if the Bible says it that's that and there is no in between. Take if as it reads. That's what I thought you were saying. (And you may have been.) I was just trying to say that no matter how much Catholic religion runs through my veins I don't automatically understand the Bible all the time. I've even seen fellow Catholics go at each others throat because they think one thing means something and the other thinks it could mean something else. Then they have to bring the Father in the middle of it and he tries to make them both happy.

Also that I may be unlike other Catholics because I think there's more to the Bible then what was written.

Hey, if you're gonna offend me you're gonna have to do better then that!

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Ok, then I'll try harder next time. Just kidding.

I guess that is possibly where we disgree then, and that is fine, I still love ya. I believe the Bible to be the true and only Word of God. It is what it is, and if something else contradicts it then it's not holy. The Bible warns us of false profits and unholy teachers, etc. all throughout. I truly believe if something was suppose to be in the Bible, then it would have been when it was put together. Where we do agree though is that I think theories are interesting. I like learning about a lot of other theories and religions even outside of Christianity, but I wont "believe" something unless it aligns with what the Bible says, I guess is what I'm saying. Again...I still love ya.

ETA: I should also add that I am not saying you can't think outside the box. For example...God created the world, but he didn't say "HOW" he created it...so...that leaves a whole other door open for how he may have done it, some many possible "theories". Example....does some parts of the Big Bang Theory align with how God may have created the Earth??? Hum....want to discuss that?

Not sure if I'm making sense or not. In all, I think thinking outside the box is fine. But when it completely contradicts God's Word, then it's not. Make sense?

luvmykids replied:
The best testament to my faith is believing it and maintaining it, regardless of what "new" ideas someone tries to throw into it

redchief replied: The Da Vinci "painting" portrayed in the first link is a "cleaned up," version, done by people intrigued by the novel (yes, NOVEL... Dan Brown didn't defend the book as factual until people started to believe the story and it became more profitable for him to do so. I know this because I saw an interview the man gave right after the release of the book - of course, maybe that was simply someone pretending to be Dan Brown....). It's the people who read the NOVEL and thought how brilliant it was that started retouching history to make the novel seem more historically correct.

Here are some historical facts that can't be overlooked when delving into known history.

Da Vinci painted the Last Supper between 1495 and 1498. He wasn't at the Last Supper, nor was he working off a photograph of the event. The young man at Jesus' right is believed by most to be St. John.

It is believed by most historians that St. Joseph, the foster father of Jesus, must have died before Jesus was crucified. There is little mention of him beyond Jesus' childhood and he wasn't present before, during or after Jesus' death and resurrection. Since his mother was there, it would have been socially totally unacceptable for a woman to travel away from her husband for such a long time. This is not considered to be possible because St. Joseph and Mary did everything according to Jewish tradition in Jesus' childhood. It is senseless to think that would change as the family aged, especially since Jesus continued to celebrate all of the Jewish holy days.

The gnostic gospels are not ignored by the Church. They are, in fact, considered sacred documentation of the early church, but possessive of probable inaccuracies which could give leave to heresy. These include the text attributed to Mary of Magdela. The Church does not recognize the gnostic texts because they were written long after Jesus and long after the events described in them supposedly occurred, and were not written by the listed authors. It is almost certain that Mary of Magdela (aka Mary Magdelene) was unable to read or write. These skills weren't taught to most men unless they were to be scribes, and no women were permitted scholastic leave to learn to read or write.

ETA: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...(1495-1498).jpg --> An unretouched picture of "The Last Supper."

Second edit because the embedded picture made the thread explode.

Crystalina replied:
Ed, would you please stop pooping all over my Mary M. parade!

I still think that John/Mary looks very ladylike but on looking closer the person second from the left and fourth from the right also have feminine faces.


Ok....riddle me this....who is holding the knife??? I know this has nothing to do with the Mary M. but I'm curious.

holley79 replied:
I had to totally freaking laugh!!!

holley79 replied: So is that really actually a woman at the table because according to the Gospel of Mark there were 12 people to include Jesus. I just counted them in the Di Vinci picture and there are only 12 people and Jesus depicted in the picture.

redchief replied:
I see no one holding a knife.

Crystalina replied:
Here is a link I just found. I'm going to read it to see what it says.

redchief replied:
John 14:17 says, "When it was evening, he came with the Twelve." That's all twelve disciples and Jesus, or 13 people. It is believed that Da Vinci's depiction occurred after Jesus revealed that he knew who would betray him and that he was with them. There is no account of a woman being present at the Last Supper.