Daycare - Finding the right daycare provider

janewinston3 wrote: I am now involved in the very difficult process of picking a daycare provider. I would love any advice that any of you have to offer. My top priority, of course, is that my daughter is in a safe, nurturing environment. But the cost is a very real factor for me. I would love to send her to a place like KinderCare or ChildTime, but I don't know if I can swing it. If I go with an independent daycare I have more concerns about the employees. Can I trust them? It sounds extreme, but I think I might run background checks on the employees if I do go that route - Has anybody ever used them for background checks or anything else? Are they a good resource? Any other suggestions?) I guess my question is, is a service like KinderCare worth the overtime that I would have to work to afford it or should I go with an independent provider as lomg as I check out the staff and make sure none of them have a questionable past?

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Generally, daycare centers and daycare providers already have had a background check by local police.

I am a daycare provider, in my own home, but I work through an agency - the agency required a background check before I started working. I'm sure you can ask to see a copy of employees' papers.

msoulz replied: Michigan daycare

I don't know in what state you live but here we can look up licensed daycares and can get recent reports on them. Perhaps your state is the same?

CantWait replied: You have every right to check run backround checks on them, and if they will be driving with your little one, run a check on their driving history. Check cupboards as proof of healthy snack choices if they will be providing meals.

Most importantly, trust your gutt. Mom always knows best.

I haven't had any luck with dayhome providers in the past, but I wish you the best of luck.

janewinston3 replied: Thanks for the feedback everybody, it was very helpful!

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Do NOT send your child to Kindercare. PLEASE! Everything they do is for show. I would never send my child to any chain center like those, IMHO. Yes, there can be wonderful teachers in those places, but they usually do not stick around because of the way they operate. Trust me, as a current childcare provider and past daycare director.

If you want quality, go to a small private owned center, or an in-home daycare provider. You can trust them WAY more than a "chain" daycare. Do NOT let those names fool you. Many parents are fooled by the name because they think bigger is better, and they are not! They are no better than any other place. If anything they are worse because how overgrown they are. Their objectives are lost behind dollar signs! Quality is NOT in a name. Working in the daycare field for 8 years now, teaching AND management, I can tell you some pretty crazy stuff.

Ok...off my soapbox now. Sorry to get so passionate, I just have met so many parents fooled by the big chain daycare names. I will admit, there are probably a "few" that are good, but it has nothing to do with it being a chain...on a whole a center is only as good as it's director! And that goes for ANYWHERE. If the center doesn't have a good director, it's probably not some place I'd take my child to. A director makes or breaks the center.

As far as doing background checks on your own, I'm not sure if you can legally do that without their permission. Not the kind that you are looking for anyway. There are specfic checks educators have to go through. If the provider or center is licensed by the state or certified by the county, then it is a requirement that they have a background check done in order to become certified or licensed. In fact, many and most, if not all, colleges also have to run them before they take any credited classes in the education or early childhood department.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I would be appauled is someone was looking through my cupboards in MY home. If you can't trust the person, then it wont work out. And honestly, if someone was looking through my cupboards, I would ask them to leave immediately. Even the state licensing agents are not allowed to unless they are given permission or they ask. You would not even be able to tell if it is the families food, or food for the kids, unless someone assumed. It is an invasion of privacy, in my humble opinion. Think about it...how would you like it if someone did that in your own home? It's pretty disrespectful, to be honest.

The more reasonable solution would be to ask for past menus or samples of meals. Also, many providers and daycares that provide meals are on a federal food program. This means they are monitored by the gov. to provide healthy meals to the kids. The provider or daycare gets reimbursed so much money for each meal they serve and they have to go by the nationwide guidelines. Ask whoever you interview if they are on a food program. Then ask to see menus or samples of meals they have claimed. Usually forms have to be sent in and most have copies of them. It may help you feel more comfortable in knowing they are getting nutritious meals monitored by the gov.

Jane, also remember, when interviewing in-home providers, they are also interviewing YOU. I have turned down families because of so many red flags from the child or parents. Respect goes both ways.

Good luck! If you have any questions, I'd be happy to help you.

CantWait replied:
I completely appreciate your opinion, however I have gone through a licened dayhome agency before where they do the usual haha menu plans, I also asked.

Come to find out my son was getting hot dogs, just the weiners for lunches. Nothing else. He wasn't being offered fruit, vegetables etc He came home from his provider after being there for 6-7 hours a day absolutely famished.

I would never take it as an insult if I was a reputable provider if someone asked proof of what foods were kept in my home for the children, and if a potential provider did find it disrespectful then he/she wouldn't be on the top of my list for care of my child.

After all I'm not asking to look in their underwear drawer, or their medicine cabinet, (which actually would be locked up here in Canada under guidelines).
And I'm also not taking it upon myself to look, they do have the choice.

Would you also not look around their house and rooms, or just trust that the government did that also?

Boo&BugsMom replied:
If I couldn't trust them, then that would be a sign that it wouldn't be the right place for my child.

I know out of every provider and daycare, that not all are legit, but there has to be a level of trust or the relationship doesn't work.

That does suck about your son, and it stinks that those people are the ones that give the good ones a bad rap and make people more insecure about their providers or daycares.

If I scheduled an interview with a provider, any good provider would give a tour of the whole house, with the exception of the providers own bedroom. Would I snoop? No, but I would look at everything that was visable and look for signs. Usually your gut will tell you if it's the right fit or not. There is just a certain level of privacy that can be easily overstepped when looking at in-home providers. If someone was that concerned about looking in my cupboards, then I wouldn't except that family into my program. I know I am a good provider, which is why I would be appauled. In my opinion, there are many other things that would be at the top of my priority list. Nutrition is very important, but anyone can stock their frig with healthy food and call it the kids.

CantWait replied: AS previously mentioned, that's your opinion, and although I don't totally agree with it, I do respect it.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Can'tWait, I have a quick question for you...what are the regs like in Canada? Being in the states, they could vary greatly. Not that we don't have a fair share of crap centers and providers...cause we do, believe me. I just wonder how different the regs compare to here. Are they pretty relaxed, or are they strict on a whole? Our state is pretty strict, but there are other states that are much more relaxed. I know that has a lot to do with checking into centers and such. Some areas are way too relaxed, where others are veyr strict. Did I make sense?

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I respect yours too! Being a parent myself, I can understand wanting the best care. Also, after dealing with a situation like yours, I can understand having a little more questioning as a parent. That is why my child is home with me in MY home daycare. I don't trust a lot of people after some of the crud I've seen.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
Let me add my 2 cents here... I am a private-home daycare, through an agency...

I have activity books and calendars to do activities on certain days. I have to have a menu plan, submitted in advance as well as any changes submitted. The agency representative can drop in at any time between the hours that I am working, to make sure that what was on my menu is what is being served. If I decided to change something and have not yet submitted the paperwork, whatever I change it with has to be equivalent nutrition wise... there has to be foods from all the food groups at some point in the day.

I have a security and safety regs list to follow concerning anything in my cupboards, what can be within reach of the kids and what can't. For example, I should not have peanuts in the cupboard, if there is a child in my care with a peanut allergy. There shouldn't be hard candies witin reach of little hands, whether they're for my family or not - they shouldn't be accessible to young kids. Also, once a week, random day and time, an agency rep drops in to check that I am "up to code", meaning that my fridge thermometer is reading ok, my hot water tank isn't too hot (mine's not an issue since I have a lokcing door separating the furnace room), that my cupboards are still safe - knives out of reach, cleaners etc... cords out of reach... basically a spot check inspection. I'm not even allowed to have dishes or pots and pans left out on the counter. If they're not in a dishwasher, they at least need to be rinsed and stacked in the sink.

I cannot have sharp knives in my drawers nor in a stand on my counter, unless the drawers are locked.

I can't have cleaners etc under the sink where most people keep thtem, unless there is a lock on the door.

Medecine cabinests have to be LOCKED up. Not just out of reach - but LOCKED.

Heck I can't even have pens and pencils out in the open without supervision!

We have to have a first aid kit on each level of the house, and we have to take one with us if we leave the house, even if it's just to go out to the back yard.

All electrical appliance cords must be rolled up, hidden, tucked away, whatever, in essence inaccessible to kids in our care.

We need to have a separate place for the kids to sleep - their sleeping place is their sleeping place. I could not, for instance, have the younger daycare child sleep in my oldest child's bed while my child is away at school, because it wouldn't be considered hygienic. Every child has his/her own sleeping place. I have 2 single beds in my girls' room (my youngest daughter sleeps in a crib in my room however), so my daughter and the younger daycare kid each take one. My son has a bunk bed, so my son sleeps on the bottom and the older one takes his rest time on the top bunk.

I am completely ok with a parent requesting to see this stuff... actually, I'd be worried if they didn't. There needs to be trust, yes, but someone who can't take the 5 minutes to check out the house where they will be leaving their child to make sure they will be safe secure and well cared for, in my opinion, I wouldn't take them anyways. Going through the cupboards is probably a little extreme, but to be honest, I have a designated place for my daycare snacks and other food... so that's what *I* show the parents, they don't even ask to see it - I show it to them, period.

I've left my childeren with daycare providers as well, and they've always shown me their house, where the kids will play, nap, eat etc... it's not a matter of invading their privacy... it's a matter of me, as their "boss", being comfortable leaving my child there with them. If they don't want to show me where the kids will sleep, or eat, then it's probably too messy, filthy or problematic for me to want to leave my child there anyways. If they are hding it from me, I don't stay there.

I don't know if that's as strict as you, or stricter, but as the mom of my daycare kids said... "Meh - I don't care where your stuff is... you've got babies, so your house is obviously childproffed - we're good."

CantWait replied:
Well it all depends on what kind of care.

There are non-registered dayhome providers, which really isn't anything more then a babysitter. There are no regulations on this, except the quota ratio, not that it's enforced.

Then there is a registered (through the government) dayhome provider, which is actually through a dayhome, or nanny agency. They don't have to have any previous experience with children or require a certificate. They must get their First Aid / CPR within 3 months of starting the agency. References must also be provided, but aren't neccesarily those provided by someone that has had their child in the care of the applicant. They are suppose to check to make sure that the home is baby proofed, which includes locking (with an actual key lock) all medicine, prescription up. Safety door things on all basement doors, or a hook lock at the top, meals are to follow Canada's Food Guide, fire extinguishers in the kitchen, a fire escape route, a different sleeping area for each child in the home, if taking child out in a vehicle, then an appropriate car-seat is available and to be used. There is no regulation on outside play areas (ex. fenced in yard etc.). They are not suppose to take any child who has symptoms of diahrrea, vomitting and/or fever.

I can't speak for all, but I found that the agency I went through with Anthony was very lax. Like mentioned, he wasn't getting the proper food, use of the fenced in backyard, and toys weren't being used, for that matter, he didn't go outside. Crafts were not done, stories barely read. I could go on and on.

What makes a great registered dayhome is all of the above, but the provider certainly doesn't have to do crafts, or read stories, or take kids out to play, or any extras.

Daycaresare probably much the same, except they have to have an enclosed play area, and their are a multitude of others regulations, and need to have a certificate in early childhood education for the most part, things that include the kind of play you do with the child, how much learning, how much outside time they need to put in the day, etc etc.

Not quite the quick answer you were looking for I don't think, but there are a few differences in each kind of child care.

CantWait replied: Rocky has also added a few things that I've left out. IE ,,,,,first aid kits and sharp objects.

CantWait replied:
This is the only difference between the agency I was with and Rocky's that I can see. Our providers didn't have to submit a menu.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Yeah Marie you mentionned a few things I didn't, too, like fire extinguisher and fenced in yard... we're not allowed to have poop (obviously), cigarette butts, trash etc... in the yard.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
We have about the same regs, give and take some of course. I am sure they vary somewhere based on the country or state, like they do here as well. I am sure there are more, but it would be too hard for you or I to list all of them.

I agree about looking at things thouroughly. Even though I think the cupbaord situation is a tad extreme, I do not hesitate to show parents every corner of the house, with the exception of my bedroom because the kids are not allowed in there anyways and it's not a part of the daycare. I show them everything from our schedule, lesson plans, menus, the house, outside, and I even many times will send them a link to the website where they can view the licensing regs themselves. I also sit down with them and give them an orientation along with my 30 page handbook. They see everything around the house.

Perhaps I'm just not a person who likes to feel invaded. I've even thought about going back to regular daycare after my son goes to K because I just don't like to feel invaded all the time in my own home. I just like to seperate my private life from business as much as possible, and in my home, it's hard to do that, so I admit I have my own personal issues with keeping my home out of my business. But, being that my business is in my home, it's hard to do, which I struggle with a lot. I just don't care for that. Now, if I had a seperate part of my house for daycare, it may be different. But, my whole house IS my daycare, with the exceptions of the bedrooms.

I think it says a lot about a parent who goes the extra mile to take the time to interview the right provider or center and run things over with a fine toothed comb. But I also think there needs to be a mutual respect. I also do not consider the parents my boss...I am my own boss and I run my business just like any other business. Maybe it's different there, but nobody around here considers the families their boss. I don't know how to explain it, other than I am giving them a service, and they have to abide by all policies and such put forth by the business just like anywhere else...all 30 pages of policies in my home.

I'm rambling again...

Hillbilly Housewife replied: I know what you mean... the parents do not see my bedroom nor my en suite bathroom, since the kids are not allowed in there.

I automatically take the parents on a tour of my house... when we're in the kitchen for example, I tell them stright up - the kids are not allowed in the cupboards nor in the fridge. This is where I keep the snacks for them though. Or in the living room - they're not alloweed to play in the living room unless it's time to water the plants, or if we play on the piano.

I am my own boss... but I do follow agency policies, and some things I am lax on. Like, for instance, we're supposed to provide lunch as well as two snacks. But it's ok with me to provide breakfast as well, since the kids get here at 7am, right when my own kids are having breakfast, and besides...havingh breakfast at home would make the kids get up at lewast 30 minutes earlier... less hassle all around to just feed em here. And I don't mind so much if they got a fever.. but I will send them home if they barf. I can't hack that.

We're supposed to do more activities than I do though, I don't do as many because her kids aren't as interested in doing puzzles etc as my own are... but mainly because after discussing said non-interestedness of her kids, since school will be doing lots of that stuff, she's more interested in having her kids just have fun here. Whatever... no big deal.

mummy2girls replied:
im with the3 agnecy tyou are talkign about marie and i had to submit a menu...

Boo&BugsMom replied: I've heard others in Canada and Australia talk about agencies. Here, it is a little different. You are either certified by the county (if it's available in your state), or you are licensed by the state. There are agencies you can go through for food programs and that, but it doesn't have anything to do with the regulations you have to abide by. It may be different for military base centers though. They have different regs on top of the state regs. I'm pretty sure, more or less, it's about the same thing though. It's just different areas regulating which it seems, if that makes sense. I don't seem to be explaining myself well today. Must have been my 5:30 am wake up call this morning!

The things I am lax on...I have an 18 month old so I am suppose to have a gate at the bottom of my stairs... I don't. Two reasons...she can walk up and down stairs without falling, or else I'd have one for sure. #2, our only bathroom is upstairs and all my other children use it. It would be a pain to unlatch the thing everytime someone has to go potty. I have one, but I rarely put it up...it's a pain. I am very strict on my sick policies though. I'm a germ freak, but that's just me. I'm pretty fair though. Some people send kids home for colds and I think that's a bit much. Kids get colds all the time. I couldn't handle barf either....BLAH! Even if one of the kids puked the night before, I don't allow them in the next day. Lax #2...I am also not suppose to keep the cats dishes anywhere out where the kids can reach them. Their main food is in the basement, but the kids take turns feeding them treats every day. It's part of their "Helpers of the day"...each one gets a job each day and they LOVE to feed the cats. I don't want to take that away from them, plus, they don't touch the food.

It's intersting to hear the regs in different countries and states. Some are so lax and others are super strict. Thanks for some of the info!

CantWait replied:
My provider had to submit a sample menu, however not a weekly menu, and nothing like Rocky, like if you were going to substitute something then having to submit that.

Either things have changed or they're even more lax then I thought, (hard to believe it could be any worse). Do you have to provide a menu every week to them?

Shelley I have all respect for you and YOUR dayhome, however my experience with the agency was horrible in every aspect. From the dayhome provider, and dayhome to the employees at the agency and how they handled certain situations.

CantWait replied:
Gates are another things that we're suppose to have.

Also my provider wasn't on the base, so we didn't have to deal with that. Even the base Daycare had to abide by regular government regulations.

mummy2girls replied:
Yes i have to provide a menu weekly..i usually fax it in...

CantWait replied:
Things have either changed then, my provider didn't have to do so, or my friend that opened a dayhome with them.

mummy2girls replied:
oh no worries Marie I know you have respect for my dayhome:) It must fo changed just a little maby ..who knows do you remember the person you talked to.. this agency has been through alot of consultants.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Here, all licensed daycares (group or home) have to follow the licensing guidelines set by the state, but those who are on military bases have to abide by extra rules set forth by the military too. It's like getting a double dose...yuck, because usually those rules (by the military) are set forth by people who don't know what they are even talking about. Thank God I'm not on a military base. I've talked to many military based people, and they don't have many good things to say about it.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Ah I see where the differences are I think Jennie... I'm through an agency - you aren't. In my area, there are several daycare providers who do not work within an agency, however they also are accountable to the city's childcare services human resources. They do not need to submit a menu, they aren't spot-checked, they do not have guidelines in the activities that they do every day, but they are also limited in how much they can charge. For example, one lady is charging her maximum of 30$ a day for a full-time child, and the agency I work for is charging 36$ a day pr child. Of that 36$, I get 25$, so I'm getting less... but I also have less hassle as for policies, dealing with payments etc... I just get a cheque, you know?

Lax - I am lax, like you. I should have gates up, but I don't, because I'm always around the kids, they don't go to the stairs, which are around the corner, other than for time out. And I have a door at the top of the stairs that I can hook-latch. When they're napping, I'm upstairs reading or whatever anyways... so they need to go by me in order to get to the stairs...

I am lax in the sense that if the kids have a fever, it's ok... I'll still take them, even if I'm not supposed to... because I know how much of a pain it can be to have to stay home because your child has a fever but is otherwise fine...

I'm curious as to the agency you're talking about? I'm with Wee Watch

Boo&BugsMom replied:
We don't have agencies here in Wisconsin like you are explaining. You are either certified by the county you are in, or licensed by the state of WI, OR you (people in WI) are just plain operating illegally unless it's "babysitting money under the table". Certification has way different regs than licensing does though. They basically just make sure your home is safe. Licensing is much more extensive, they give you a rule book, check up on you more, etc. Each center is provided with a licensor/monitor that checks on you unannounced about once or twice a year. Licensing provides you with the rules WE (as providers) have to follow, but they let us determine our rules we place for the families to follow, including prices, hours, general parent policies, etc. I am a part of the WI Family Childcare Association but they do not determine any policies or anything, they are basically there to network with and for trainings (we need 25 hours of inservice and cont. education hours each year for licensing).