CoasterQueen (Karen) Why are the being banned??

C&K*s Mommie wrote:

I did not want to hijack Monica's post about fireworks and children, by asking this. But what happened last night, so that innocent sparklers will be against the law in your county?

MyBrownEyedBoy replied: Even innocent sparkler can cause catastrophic fires in some areas of the country. They caused some huge ones in Wyoming a few years ago.

coasterqueen replied: Nothing happened last night. Apparently the county voted that fireworks will be illegal unless w/a commercial permit. Last year you could get a residential permit, but now you have to be a commercial business to get one, so no private displays of fireworks anymore. The only think you can display privately is smoke bombs, those pops, party poppers and sparklers. Whoop-d-do, IMO. The rumor is next year they will outlaw sparklers.

It's because of those stupid morons who get drunk (or not) and hurt themselves as well as the EXTREMELY over-cautious parents that don't want their children to get ahold of them. IMO if they are actually watching their children, then they would have the choice to let them have them or not, but apparently they can't keep tabs on their children......SO it was banned for everyone.

The fine if caught is $1,000. We thought long and hard about just paying the fine, but we couldn't get the whole family on board to do it.

holley79 replied: We have a huge firework ban here in NWFL becuase of the drought. You are also only supposed to use those little rinky dink fireworks here in the state of Florida. There are plenty of people that go across statelines though and it's not enforced. I think if you are very careful then you should be allowed. It's those that are careless that ruin it for the rest of us. JMHO

coasterqueen replied:
VERY true. And if we had a drought situation here I could see it, but we don't so it's a load of crap IMO.

C&K*s Mommie replied: Definately, I agree Holley. Every year (despite the drought esp this yr) we have front row seats to nearby people sending the big ones into the sky, in our neighborhood.

Thanks for the explanation Kelly, and Karen. I understand about the professional like fireworks, that are ever so popular here even with our drought situation- which no one seems to heed to, depsite the consequences (thanks for the explanation Holley ) I just did not understand, well until now, the implications of harmless sparklers. Now I do. Thanks!!

luvmykids replied:
Sorry to hear that, Karen, I have to say despite my paranoia I would never infringe it upon others, if worse came to worse I would simply take the kids in the house or something. I'm not anti-fireworks/sparklers, just anti-stupidity when using them around children.

holley79 replied:
Nothing was enforced over the weekend as you could tell. The skies were lit up. We all talked about it Monday night as we were leaving. The County Commisioner is the one that was issuing they would enforce the fireworks ban. Neither county has enough manpower to enforce the fireworks laws.

redchief replied: There are five states in the USA in where all forms of private fireworks, including sparklers, are banned. NJ is one of those states.

Our local paper ran a story today, actually covering a complaint on police enforcement of NJ's fireworks laws:
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/lo...p-6349429c.html

"Consumer Product Safety Commission...reported 10,800 emergency-room visits by people injured by fireworks last year. And injuries are on the rise nationwide, according to the commission.

Burdette Tomlin Memorial Hospital in Cape May County saw just one fireworks-related injury, last year when a handheld popper injured a child's eye, said Dr. Michael Dudnick, chairman the hospital's department of emergency medicine.

“We tend to run the gamut from burns on their hands to eye injuries, and we're aware of one really bad one where a firecracker actually blew off somebody's hand,” Dudnick said."

The injury where a hand was blown off was a twelve year old girl in our town. I was one of the first EMT's on scene. The injury was horrific. The story went on to quote the doctor as saying most injuries they see now are burns from the so-called harmless sparklers.

Does anyone here know what fireworks are? They are burning metals and salts ignited by black powder (sulfer and saltpeter) in an explosion. Water doesn't put them out except in copious quantities, therefore if you get a piece of this burning metal on your skin it will continue to burn through full thickness of the skin into underlying tissue until the metal has given up all of it's potential energy in the form of heat.

Every year we have at least five fires per year in our town caused by fireworks. These fires are often in the grasses of our protective dune system causing erosion and the potential for flood damage due to the weakening of the system.

Many may feel that limiting fireworks to use by the professionals infringes on their rights. Having seen how devestating fireworks injuries can be, and the property damage caused by the irresponsible, I'm all for regulation.

coasterqueen replied: I would never dismiss the amount of injuries/damage that can happen, but are we just going to keep punishing the responsible for what the irresponsible do? If we do that we should ban just about everything in this world and well, what would we be, where would we be, etc as a society.

I don't know, that can be a dangerous play of words IMO.

redchief replied:
What defines the responsible use of fireworks?

I think if everyone who wants to shoot off fireworks had to take a course that teaches them responsible use and care of these explosives, then I'd start leaning toward your argument, after a few other little things are taken care of:

- Fireworks users must take out an insurance policy against any damage to public or private property their explosives cause.
- This insurance policy must also include coverage for injuries the explosives cause
- The responsible fireworks displayer must notify, in writing, all nearby residents and homeowners of their intentions to display
- After gaining the permission of those affected, in writing, the responsible fireworks displayer must ensure that a suitable area around their display has been cleared of all humans and animals to prevent accidental injury.
- The fire department must be notified and on standby in the likely event the fireworks cause a fire. The displayer should pay for this service, of course.

Hmm... wait... This is looking like the requirements for professional fireworks contractor isn't it? I recall a meeting I had with a fireworks contractor several years ago. He extended his hand in greeting; actually he extended what was left of his hand - he was missing three of his five fingers.

There is no such thing as a responsible private fireworks user. They're explosives and should only be handled by the properly trained and experienced.

coasterqueen replied: I thought a lot about this over lunch, Ed and what is the private use of fireworks anymore different than the private use of guns? What is your stance on them, out of curiosity? The way it was set up last year was individuals could obtain a permit to display fireworks accepting the responsibilities/consequences of displaying said fireworks. There was no class, etc. I think if one accepts the responsibilities it should be their decision and they should be able to display them. Those who don't want to do so or don't want their children/property getting hurt.....don't get a permit. Now I know property can still get damaged by someone who may be displaying them right next door to them (or children for that matter). If that happens punish those who do so.

We don't give those who want to purchase a gun a class do we? I think those are a heck of a lot more dangerous and they aren't 'out there' one time a year. Why are we going after those who choose to display fireworks and not those who wish to own a gun? Because it's cheaper and easier to go after those w/fireworks than the lobbyists for guns. It's ridiculous and we all know it. I don't think a class will do anything for someone to display fireworks either. What will the class really teach that we don't already know, seriously. Even those who are experts at setting off fireworks get hurt and who is to say is really the expert and who should teach the class, certify people etc. Oh, sounds like we'll get into something that will financially hurt the cities/counties, etc and then we might as well not have fireworks. Permits given to those who wish to pay the fee and accept the responsibility seems like a good way of doing things for those who wish to display and the cities/counties who make money from it. Plain and simple.

jcc64 replied: Very interesting discussion, guys. I guess I don't really have super strong opinions about fireworks in general, b/c they don't have a huge presence in our lives here in upstate NY. They aren't available to purchase, so it's not much of an issue unless someone happens to take a trip somewhere and bring them back.
The larger issue here is whether we need or want the gov't to protect us from ourselves, even from things that are inherently dangerous, such as guns and fireworks. I've been involved in many conversations on this board where I've been told that the gov't should back off and let us parent ourselves, even where kids are involved. Ed- I've heard this from you on more than one occasion. So, while I certainly respect your expertise and experience with the horrors of people and explosives, your stance does seem a little inconsistent with what I know about your usual positions on stuff like this. Care to elaborate?

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Sparklers and other home use fireworks are also "supposedly" against the law in our county as well. However, you'd never know with all the firework tents out selling fireworks every year, and my parents neighbor who happens to be a sheriff lighting them off as well every year. Around here, they are more worried about the illegal stuff and commercial grade ones. That law really doesn't get pressed around here.

coasterqueen replied:
You know I reflected quite a bit on this subject at lunch and one thing I did realize about myself is I can be a hypocrite sometimes when it comes to politics. Yes, I will admit this on this board because it makes me a better person to realize things like this.

For instance I am for the gov't getting involved in whether someone can smoke in public or not but not when it comes to fireworks. I know, hypocrite I am.

Somehow I need to learn from this to find a common ground for myself. I guess for me there should be some form of control from the government to an extent, like I agreed last year when gov't in our area stepped up and made it illegal to display fireworks w/o a permit. I was all for that. I am just not for them taking away my right completely.

jcc64 replied: I guess we're all inconsistent from time to time. My basic premise is that we can't take it for granted that everyone is willing or able to conduct themselves in a way that is either responsible or intelligent, and for that reason, I am much more willing to "allow" that gov't intervention is reasonable and necessary in many instances, particularly where children are concerned. Some parents are irresponsible idiots, plain and simple, and it's sad that their kids are left on their own to suffer the consequences of that. Why should you, the responsible parent have to pay the price for the reckless few- b/c it's a small price to pay to insure the safety of those without a voice- kids. That's why laws and restrictions are necessary, particularly if the medical care of those unfortunate accidents becomes a burden for the state.
To me, gov't has a much larger role to play where the interests of its citizens are all but obliterated by the interests of well funded corporate lobbyists, and that is the #1 reason why I support gov't intervention on safety and health issues- although I'm much more likely to get fired up over pesticides or carcinogens than I am about sparklers. That's not to say that I am a kill joy on July 4th, Karen- I was at a party where there were all sorts of illegal fireworks exploding all around me, and far be it from me to call the cops or even be upset about it. But again, I might have felt differently if I saw people behaving in a truly irresponsible manner around kids- y'know, drunk dudes handing M-80s to 12 yr olds- stuff like that. Not the case where I was.

MyLuvBugs replied:
Actually, yes! My dad teaches hunter and gun safety around the state of Nebraska, and I know that in some other states you have to take fire-arms classes to apply or carry a permit for a hand gun let alone use one. Just my knowledge popping in.

gr33n3y3z replied:
N.J. is the same way with guns

redchief replied: Heheh... This is going to be fun (not in my case, but to those of you who think you know me ). I think you might be a little surprised by some of my answers here.


Jeanne, would you know me any other way?
I'm not being inconsistent. The government doesn't belong in my house. My neighbor's fireworks don't belong on my house either. Fireworks rarely kill, but often maim and cause need for longterm medical intervention. If regulation can limit that, then it suits me. It will keep my health insurance rates and taxes down.
The fourth ammendment of the Bill of Rights protects us in our homes. Again, this is a constitutional issue. The constituion doesn't give anyone the right to shoot fireworks over my property. If your land is big enough that all of your pyrotechnics will only impact you, then I have no beef with you.

lisar replied: We are not allowed to have anything that goes in the air and explodes here in my county. However if you go to any surrounding county there are the fireworks places on the county lines and we just go there and buy ours. Everyone does it and sets them off and no one has ever gotten into any trouble. My entire neighborhood was lit up lastnight by the ones that go in the air. I am sorry to hear that though. We are allowed sparklers and lil stuff though.

A&A'smommy replied: wow very interesting thanks for all the information everyone, I always find these kinds of conversations VERY enlightening

MommyToAshley replied: I am a little late to the debate, but I can't help but to add my two cents.

I don't think it is fair to compare fireworks to guns. First of all, most people don't hand a gun to a child as they do with fireworks. I agree with Ed in that I would like to see a person have to be certified in firework safetly before purchasing and age requirements for use. (Just like in purchasing a gun). As you know, I am not a fan of big government, but unfortunately I think that there need to be laws to "protect the innocent" from those that are not so responsible, of which I think include purchasing guns, fireworks, drunk driving laws, and laws against smoking in public places. Unfortunately, laws like these are needed because one person's lack of good judgement could kill or injure another person. So, they are not laws to protect us from ourselves, but to protect us from others.

coasterqueen replied:
Point well taken. The only reason I 'compared' them to guns is that guns do more damage and more often. And really you'd be suprised at the adults handing children guns Albeit not as much on one day as is fireworks. I just think guns are more dangerous so if we are going to take away something that is so dangerous like fireworks, then people should look at more SERIOUS things that can be dangerous instead. Now, I don't even know what my stance is on guns really, I'm just trying to make the point that guns are used daily and hurt far more people than fireworks do (being that the majority of the time they are only readily available one small window a year and used only a few days a year).

coasterqueen replied:
This is the very reason why I brought guns up into the discussion. People tend to be more riled up about getting rid of fireworks than guns. Or at least in our area that's the case. Maybe they should have put more effort into ridding of the guns over ridding of fireworks.

MommyToAshley replied: I actually agree with you Karen. I don't think fireworks should be taken away completely.. I just think it is something that unfortunately needs to be regulated. Guns are dangerous... and there are laws and regulations for purchasing guns. And, I think there should be with fireworks as well. I don't think there needs to be a background check to purchase fireworks, like with guns, but is a safety class and certification really that bad of an idea?

ashtonsmama replied: