Can anyone help?

Pooks wrote: Hi, I'm hoping someone out there can give me some advice. I don't know where else to turn.

My sister's baby died a year ago not long after she was born. It goes without saying that of course this has been a dreadful time for her and I have done everything I can to support her, listen to her and just be there for her no matter what the time of day or night and regardles of what was going on in my life at the time.

I found out a little while ago through an anonymous source that she is angry with me because of some things I have said to her and some of the things I did in the early days when I was trying to help her organise things (she could barely function and I was happy to step in). As an example, I referred to her "losing" her baby and I am told she is angry that I used that word, that her baby is "dead", she didn't lose her anywhere.

Since finding this out I have been even more careful with what I say to her, but she is still being very cool to me. I just feel like I am tiptoeing around her, I don't know what to say - if I say nothing she feels I am rejecting her child, but if I say something I seem to trip over my two big feet that are currently stuck firmly in my mouth!

I have, on a couple of occasions, tried to talk with her and give her the opportunity to speak her mind, but she hasn't wanted to talk about it. Because I need to protect the source who gave me the (very reliable) information about how she feels about me, I don't know what else I can do. She has said that she "wonders why she gives me the time of day anymore"? I find that so hurtful.

I can't begin to imagine what she would be going through, and I know that she will live with this dreadful situation for the rest of her life. Trust me, if I could take the pain away for her, I would do absolutely anything. My heart is breaking for her and instead of being able to help, I seem to be hindering without even knowing how.

I'm so frustrated that I can't talk to her about this. And yes, I admit I feel a little bit angry too. I may not have the lifelong sentence of my child's death being with me, but this hasn't been an exactly easy thing for me to deal with either. Matters are made worse when you consider that I have my own children and their health and happiness come up and smack her in the face whenever she sees us.

At the risk of sounding extraordinarily selfish, there's a part of me that would like some recognition that I am hurting too, and while I may not have always said or done the right thing at the right time, my intention has always been from the loving perspective, not a destructive one.

I'm sorry, this has become a novel! Can anyone suggest anything? And can anyone give me some guidance as to what I can and can't say? It just seems an impossible situation, but over riding everything, I love my sister and I want to be her friend again and support her (in the "right" way, whatever that is), no matter what.

kit_kats_mom replied: gosh, that's hard. I'm always the one putting my foot in my mouth and I never know what to say therefore I always end up saying nothing in leiu of coming off wrong.

I'd maybe send her a letter saying that you are upset about it too and that even if you didnt use the words that she would have found most comforting, that you did your best and that you care.

MommyToAshley replied: Until you have lost a child, you can never truly understand the pain and guilt that a Mom experiences when her child dies. I can only speak from my own experience, but I think you may have already answered a lot of your own questions. Nothing you say or do will make her feel better. There is really no right thing to say. And, you can't take her pain away. I know that after we lost our son Joshua, I was mad when people were afraid to talk about him to me. I was mad when people referred to him the wrong way. I think I was just plain mad.... and I took it out on the ones I loved the most. Your sister is going to have to come to terms and learn to live with the pain on her own time. I say that because I don't think the pain ever really goes away. But, that doesn't mean that she has to do it alone.

It sounds like you have tried to be there for her, but I think you are on to something when you say that her pain and loss smack her right in the face whenever she sees your happy and healthy children. I couldn't look at another baby without crying or wondering what my son would be like at that age. You may just need to give her some space. But, first you might want to tell her the things that you told us.... how much you love her and that you would never intentionally do anything to hurt her. Let her know that you want to be there to support her but you don't know how. But, the last thing you want to do is to start avoiding the subject because if she is anything like me, I took that to mean the person just didn't care. You can write it in a letter or talk to her in person, but I think it is important to let her know that you love her and her angel baby. Then, you might want to give her space if she needs it. If she needs it, it is not personal, it is just painful to be around kids at the moment.

As for how you are hurt, I think that if you really care about her (And, It's obvious you love your sister or you wouldn't have made this post) then you should just suck it up and not say anything to her about it. The things she said may be hurtful, but I think you should try to be a little understanding and realize they just come out of hurt.

Definitley tell her what you told us, and give her some time, I bet it will make a world of difference.

mummy2girls replied: First of all i think you should write her a letter and tell her what you told us.

From my personal experience after i lost Jordan I was mad at the fact that people would say to me: he is in a better place" I would think what! being in my arms is the best place. And within a week everyone stopped talking about jordan to me and to me that made me feel as if everyone forgot about him! I lashed out at many family members because i was really hurt. I may of not meant it turely in my heart but i was saying it all out of pain. No one will ever know the true pain of losing a child untilt they actually lose one

The sentence about seeing your healthy kids is a smack in hert face is something taht w=rings true to me. My brother had a baby 7 motnhs after i lost jordan and they forced him on me. I started to resent that baby because i wanted to deal with him on my own time and pace. So you have to let her deal with being able to be near your kids in her own time. It has only been a year and 1 year anniversarries is the worst! You just learn to accept it as time goes on. It took me a good 3 years before i really started to move on and handle the pain.

Just dont push her. i know what she says is hurting you but you jsyt have to accept it and let her deal with it on her own. She will come too you when she is ready to. Just let her know you are there for her and that you love her!

Pooks replied: Thank you all so much for your honesty and courage in sharing your experiences with me. It helps me to understand how my sister would be feeling, though I would like you all to know that having had two m/c myself, I have the tiniest inkling of what she is going through.

MommytoAshley, I have told her I love her and that I would never intentionally hurt her which she seemed to have accepted. I'm just disappointed that she is still holding onto what I have said and still putting me down to other people about it. Add to this that some of what she is saying is completely fabricated, and... well - it's just hard to rise above it!!! I think you're probably right, she's angry, not at me, at EVERYTHING, at the sheer injustice of it all - I just happen to be the one she's taking it out on.

I love her, but I take your advice willingly. I will write to her so that she has something to read and look at when she needs to and then I feel my only option is to give her the space you have suggested. My fear is that if I do this she will feel like I am pushing her away. Can you see how I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place?

Once again, thanks for your replies and at the risk of sounding totally insensitive, I am genuinely and deeply sorry that your own beautiful angels are not here in the physical sense. My mind can't even begin to comprehend how all of you, including my sister, would feel.

amymom replied: I agree with what others and you have said. It seems your sister is angry and you are an 'easy' target. Since you will love her anyway. Who is there to get mad at? ---noone so there you are. Also, you are an example of what she is missing, being a mother, having healthy, happy children/family.

I know you want to protect the source of the information, but maybe you can use that person to bring you and your sister together, so your sister can speak freely. Maybe that person can tell your sister (the next time she,the sis, mentions that you are hurting her) that the 3 of you need to talk, maybe that person can explain what you have said or would say in the letter, maybe it needs to be pulled out into the open so you avoid the 'hard spot' of . This would give you the opportunity to 'confront' [not in a bad way] the elephant in the middle of the room that noone wants to talk about---so to speak . It has to be hard when you are together you are walking on eggshells and she is 'hating' you and picking apart in her mind everything you do/say.

Remember you are grieving for your niece as well. Prayers and good wishes to you and your family.

Mandasmomma replied: From my own experience....I held on to my anger towards certain people. One person told me "Your better off" - or the good old "She is in a better place now" those comments still kinda stab me thru the heart because I am not beter off - and there is no better place for a child then in mom's arms. My daughter died at birth, and I saw a hospital paper that had "miscarriage" written on it - that made my bllod boil....I dont know why, either is awful - and either means basically the same ending - but it hurt me then.

Yes, my daughter would have suffered if she lived - and I can NOW see that, but when she first died, nobody could have explained that to me.

I was very jealous of my sister, who was able to carry a healthy baby to term, while smoking and not watching her diet - and not even trying to get pregnant....I however tried for years to get pregnant - and never smoked, and watched that I ate only healthy things.... I had no reason to be jealous of her - but I was, maybe even hurt is a better word, hurt by her luck = my selfishness.

All of my feelings are coming out at once now - so I doubt this makes sense....jsut know that this is something kinda normal - and that you need to let her know of your hurt...and your love towards her and that child.

ammommy replied: Everyone has given great advice, but I just wanted to add---is your sister seeing a counselor? It sounds like that may give her a good place to vent her anger.

Pooks replied: Oh, I'm lost for words, you ladies are truly amazing! That you can talk so freely to give advice to someone like me is one of the most beautiful, giving experiences I have known in my life. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

No, my sister is not getting counselling and will bite anyone's head off who may suggest it. I believe this is one of the biggest issues.

Mandasmomma - your comments about your sister were like a bolt of truth hitting me. I fell pregnant the first time without trying, in fact it was totally unexpected, I was working huge hours, partying, drinking, etc. My sister on the other hand has been trying for years, had a number of miscarriages and has been on special diets. I have of course recognised that she would feel badly about this, but your words have really opened my eyes to how she would feel resentment towards me.

Amymom, thank you, you are the only person i have spoken to since my little niece died who has acknowledged that I am grieving for my lost niece too. There was so much talk when it happened about the parents and the grandparents grief (and quite rightly so, of course), but nobody once seemed to acknowledge that this was hard for EVERYONE, including me. I was so looking forward to being an aunty at last, I really believe it's a special gift and different to being a mum.

I spoke with her today, she seemed quite chirpy for a change, but then she runs hot and cold often, which I guess is to be expected.

My sincerest thanks to all of you, you are helping more than you could know.

MommyToAshley replied: Pooks, I did not realize that you went through two m/c yourself. I am sorry for your loss.

And, you are right, I am sorry that I did not acknowledge that you are grieving for your neice as well. I simply meant that now might be a time to be a little more forgiving of your sister since I am sure she doesn't mean many of the things that she is saying.

I know that you said your sister won't go to counseling, but maybe it will help her to talk to other parents that have lost children. There are lots of support groups in real life and online... has anyone suggested a support group for her?

I really don't have any other advice, I just wanted to say I was sorry that I didn't recognize your losses, and to wish you the best of luck. Hang in there, your sister is lucky to have you!

Pooks replied: MommytoAshley, I didn't think your words were harsh in any way, don't worry! I really appreciate what you have shared. I don't know what it is to give birth to my baby only to have it die - I would be angry too (amongst other things) at the sheer injustice of it all.

I have realised that this "jealousy" (for want of a better word) has been around for some time, I just haven't recognised it over the years. Something I remembered yesterday - when I found out I was pregnant with my first child, she rang me and started yelling at me that I always had to do "one better" than her. She was getting married, I was her matron of honour and she was furious at me that I would be p/g during the lead up to her wedding, and though my baby would be 3 mths when she actually got married, she was felt that I was taking the "limelight" away from her. She was even angry that I was going to be difficult to do dress fittings around and expressed concern that my breasts would leak onthe dress! At the time she said that I was "always doing things before her, always the first in the family to get married, buy a house, have kids, etc." All of this was long before she even tried to start her own family. I am also older than her so it makes sense that I would do some of these things before she does.

This is the only really big fight we have had in adulthood and I now realise that I have been a little wary of her ever since. It's strange, until now I've never really examined it, I just pushed it away because it really upset me at the time.

So, having thought about this constantly for the last 24 hours or so (oooh, my head hurts!), I guess it all adds up - she's grieving, part of that grief is anger, and she is directing it at me for a myriad of reasons.

So where to from here????

Mandasmomma replied: You write her a letter. You tell her how sorry you are that she has gone thru this horrible experience. You tell her how badly you miss that child - you tell her that you want to be there for her, but you are unsure of what she would like you to do for her. You leave her the next step -

Maybe one idea is: ask if you can get together for the birthday or loss anniversary. Do something special - send some balloons to heaven. (We do that each year...)

Just let her know (without saying it) that you loved and miss this child too - and you miss having your sister - the way you were at one time.

I wish you lucKK!!

loveydad replied: I just wanted to add I think everyone has great advice and that losing a child is the most difficult thing anyone can have to go through. Sometimes people get angry or lash our at people because they're suffering inside.

nashsmommy replied: Okay this is about the hardest thing I ever had to do...........I've read everything here and it struck me so hard.......I lost my first born 9 years ago......and I never talked about it to no one I wanted people to not talk about him cause it killed me.......DON'T GET ME WRONG!! He's my angel and I love him sooooo much......I think I was angry at every one else because what they would say to me was cruel........They used to say......."Its Gods way of telling you, you weren't ready to be a mom" OR "God works in mysterious ways"
I hated people talking to me, so finally I just lashed out to everyone and told every one if they can't say anything that is nice don't open there mouths .....and they stopped.......but the problem was I didn't get to grieve properly because I was avoiding every one.
Thanks to everyone who posted there stories it helped me more than you know.......I now have a few phone calls to make. Especially to my mom.



And as for your sister .....bear with her but also let her know what you heard and that your sorry for the words you used but that you were only trying to help the best way you knew how......Let her know how much you love her and that you'll always be there...........you probably already told her that .......but tell her again.....

Pooks replied: Nashsmommy - I'm sorry that this has "stirred" everything up for you. I was really hesitant to post something here, but figured it would be the only way to have some honest, open communication from people who know what my sister is experiencing. Absolutely everything that everyone has written here has helped me to see things from her perspective, and for this I am truly grateful.

I hope that your call to your mother goes well... God bless you and everyone else who has responded.

A tremendous hug to all of you!!!

nashsmommy replied: pooks - Don't get me wrong its a good thing........I didn't realize there was a board for this topic...........I'm glad there is now........I can now put alot of things behind knowing there are other people to talk to and other people understand where I'm coming from..........and the call with my mom went over good....Thank you!!

amymom replied:

Yes people say things that are very strange... I guess we all probably do but when you are on the receiving end it just feels wrong. My mother-in-law told me ... 'Well, you are too old to be having another kid anyway." I was 37!!OMG that is sooooo old!!! and my son was 4. My daughter was born two years later.

Anyway Pooks, I think you got lots of good advice. Keep us informed of how your sister and you are doing.