Are kids getting ruder?

jcc64 wrote: What do you all think of this article, which appeared in yesterdays NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/27/weekinre...article_popular

My2Beauties replied: Wow, that article really sort of hit home with my situation. I thought about this very same thing a couple of days ago when Hanna shouted the words "No" to me and every other adult all day over and over as we asked or told her to do something. She has been known to throw her sippy cup, scream at us, etc... I just shake it off as normal toddler behavior, but then again should I be doing that? This article really has me thinking, because I notice Desiree has a tendency to be really lazy when it comes to chores and picking up after herself in general and expects us to do it, and I think because she is only over our house a couple days a week that we tend to let her get away with stuff so as not to make her experience at our house and unpleasant one, when in actuality we shoud hold her responsible for generally picking up her clothes off the floor when she takes a bath/shower, taking her dishes into the kitchen and putting them in the sink when she is done eating.

What really had me thinking though was that I was just like Desiree. Rarely ever did I clean my room, my mom always put me upstairs and kept my door shut so no one would see it, rarely did I do the dishes or even clean up my dishes, cups sat in my room for days sometimes. I never vaccuumed, dusted, picked up stuff, took dogs out, fed animals - anything at all! Now I was punished and stuff for being a backtalker, they did not tolerate rude behavior towards other adults. I was always very polite when in the company of other adults, now towards my parents by themselves was a different story, as I was a mouthy rebellious little thing. I learned my lesson though once I really pushed limits and the punishments got harsher, I also just plain old grew up and realized I was being stupid! But I was never punished for not cleaning up or basic household chores, when mom asked me to do something, sometimes I did it and sometimes I didn't, I wasn't praised when I did do it and I wasn't punished when I didn't! So I see myself repeating the same pattern with Desiree that my mom created with me! I didn't turn out bad but I can say that to this day I hate cleaning and I can be really lazy when it comes to it, although I am trying to get better, it's hard because Brian cleans up a lot.

Now with Brian's little brother, he is very rude sometimes to adults, I want to do all sorts of things to him when he stays the night. He is very sneaky and I don't think he is disciplined enough! He gets whatever he wants and he is very spoiled. His behavior is really out of line when it comes around his b'day or holidays he is constantly asking for the most outrageous expensive things and when we say Kenny that costs a lot of money, his reply "so, get a job that pays more money then!" He is really rude about asking for presents and he is not thankful for anything at all. Last year he got a basketball goal, an air hockey table, a playstation 2, a bunch of games, authentic basketball jerseys (2 of them that costs $50 a piece ) and when Desiree came over to open her gifts, she had more things to open because hers were a lot less expensive a piece and no where near totaled up the amount she got and he goes "Man she got way more presents then me that isn't fair!" I was so mad at him I let him have it and his mom was like Kenny she's right, everyone backed me up!

Sorry this got so long, but this article really does hit a lot of points I believe are right. I think teachers should have more authority when it comes to discipline (not hitting or anything but just more authority) and that parents need to stop playing the "Oh my child is a saint, does nothing wrong, I'll sue the pants off of you because you corrected them" type of attitude! Makes me ill really! If Hanna screws up in school and they call me first, my first reaction will be well what did the teacher do about it! I mean honestly, they need more rights!

OK I could go on and on about this, so I'll stop now and see what others have to say!

DansMom replied: The article seems pretty much on target to me. As some of you know, I'm a people pleaser who hates conflict, and I'm exhausted from working full time, so I have the potential to be one of those wimpy parents who could overindulge for the sake of serenity and expedience. However, I'm determined to hone my parenting skills and in recent weeks have become a consistent but gentle disciplinarian. It's definitely been worth the effort, as the results have been obvious and positive. DH watches supernanny and says it's a pretty good show for seeing the results of thoughtless or exhausted parenting---a good motivator to stay on target with consistent discipline. We see rudeness everywhere, not just in kids but in adults, too, and we're determined to raise Daniel to be thoughtful and considerate of others.

DH taught drumset to kids for many years, and watched the "overscheduled child" syndrome develop in the late nineties. He finally had enough and quit teaching---most of the kids didn't thrive on drum lessons sandwiched between soccer practice and math tutoring on a Saturday. He had kids that were inattentive and even combative during the lesson, wanting to just bash the drums and not demonstrate anything, and they never practiced because they didn't have time; he ended up feeling more like an overpaid babysitter than a teacher.

mckayleesmom replied: Yes...I think kids are ruder these days, but I think the kids make excuses for it and let them get away with it more.

For example....When I was growing up...I had to get a job if I wanted money for things...car, movies, clothes....I had to work to get it. My little sister is now 21 years old.....has never held a job down for more then a month....and treats my parents like poop. She has a cell phone....they pay for it....which is BS to me...I never had a cell phone. I got one when I was 19 and I paid for it myself. She lives with my mom, she lays around all day and my parents complain about it, but they both continue to give her money. My parents are divorced and whenever 1 parent makes her mad...she has the other parent come pick her up and she goes and stays with them....


This reminds me....Remember a while back there was that 5 year old that flipped out in the school and was spitting and hitting the teachers and ripping up other childrens work. It took 5 buys to handcuff her. They caught it all on tape..because this wasn't her first outburst. The mother was on the news saying that if they would have called her she would have come and got her (which they did and she wasn't in her work) anyways.....The mother said she was outraged by the fact that the police and school had her 5 year old arrested. Personally, if that was my child...I would be soooo embarrassed that she acted like that and I would have thanked them for not killing her.....cause if I was that teacher and a child spit on me....she better run. Then the little girl got a bunch of press coverage and was taken to Disneyworld ....Way to reward a disrespectful child.

jcc64 replied: Dh and I are both heavily involved in coaching youth sports, and our kids are busy athletes, so I have seen bits and pieces of many aspects of this piece. By and large, I'd have to agree with the general assumption that kids are indeed less respectful towards adults. (I'm speaking of non-related adults). My first encounter with this came with my oldest ds' friends, who are very nice kids from loving, attentive families, but who haven't a clue that they are not on the same level as an adult and behave accordingly. Sometimes subtle things, sometimes overt, but I find it shocking that some kids clearly have no clue that they are addressing an adult, and have no trouble challenging something I might say or ask them to do. It's clear to me that it's never been pointed out to them that respectful and deferential behavior towards an adult is important. Believe me, I'm very casual, friendly, and approachable as a mom- kids always want to be here, but I do expect to be shown a certain level of respect, simply b/c I'm an adult. Often doesn't happen, and i see that as a by product of parents who want so desperately to be friends with their kids rather than parents. My kids don't have to like me, they just have to listen to me.
In youth sports, we've had many opportunities to witness appalling behavior, although truthfully, it's usually coming more from the adults, and not surprisingly, the kids who are least equipped to deal with disappointment are ones whose parents are so heavily invested in winning. It's as if everything in the sports experience is secondary to winning. So many parents work overtime to spare their kids any sense of disappointment, and will do almost anything to prevent it from happening. So many rich opportunities to teach their kids about life lessons are lost in this all consuming quest to protect their kids from unpleasant feelings.
I do believe we over-schedule our kids in an effort to position them for success in our high speed culture. There's more homework, more pressure, and I do believe kids today are losing out on some of the freedoms of childhood. They probably are way more stressed out than we were as kids, and when we are stressed, we sometimes behave badly. So do they. Unfortunately, this is the world we all live in, I don't see us going back to simpler, gentler times. So to me, the best solution is to teach my kid to behave respectfully to other adults, and the best way to achieve that, is to demand that they show it to me as well. Easier said than done sometimes, particularly as they enter adolescence, but it's a lesson they've got to learn. As I said to my ds when he was incensed about the way a chaperone had spoken to him, "If you want to be shown respect, you better give it first." Can't find any other way to say it.

MommyToAshley replied: This article hits home with me too, particularly because DH thinks I am too easy on Ashley. We have different parenting styles and struggle with the issue of being consistent. With that being said, I would not tolerate Ashley being rude to anyone... child or adult.

I do see a lot of behavior from kids, particulary teenagers, that I could never imagine doing when I was that age. I would never dare talk back and use some of the words I have heard kids use to their parents. Maybe I lived a shelterd life? But, I do seem to remember my parents saying the same thing about our generation when I was a teenager.

luvbug00 replied: I agree with Brianne on this one. Kids in my area are horrible little buggers now a days. I have seen a crop of rude, spoiled, lazy brats lately and I don't like it one bit. Especially the tweens. Those children are 13 and walking arround with cell phones and ipods..dare they do a chore to earn them. Then they whine and complain about the next new gadgit they MUST have. Thanks to the toy manufactures who have invented cell phones for the little ones ( 6 and up) sold at target, and to the clothing designers who jack up the skirts so high i'd swear they where underwear! I know many people are opposed to spanking and that is all gravy but in my house if any of my kids act like that it's a nice whap on the hindquarters for them! Their additudes stink too oh and the latest thing arround here is kids yelling out the windows of cars and saying racist remarks and making idiotic noises. Granted they aren't all bad but the ones that are ARRRRRRRR!!!!

gr33n3y3z replied: I see alot of kids rolling their eyes at the teachers and sassing back at them.
The kids know in school if they need something from me or my boss you must ask nicely for it and then say thank you it took us awhile to get that respect with some of the kids but not all of the kids were disrepectful to us just a few.

It makes you wonder what goes on in their house you know what I mean?

jem0622 replied: Yes, I do think this is a problem. I stress with my boys that it is not okay to speak to anyone with disrespect. If I ever witness it with my oldest then I do ask if he hears Mommy or Daddy speaking in that way and he says 'no'.

Thanks for sharing this article!

A&A'smommy replied: Working in a school system I see this one day I was in my husbands office (which you have to go through a classroom to get too) during school and because it was hott that day he had to leave the door open so the survers would get to hott.. anyway my point is I heard LOTS of talking back, music from the kids NOT the teacher, they were EXTREMLY loud the teacher gave up on trying to get them to calm down and let them watch a movie it was awful. At church I saw a 9 year old with a cell phone NOT just a cell phone but also a linc how crazy is that!?!?! I think kids are WAY to spoiled now and they definitly get away with more than I would EVER EVER let my child get away with!!!!!!

Now after saying that I have to say I was a pretty rebellious child I probaby could have been worse but one thing with my parents school came first, then chores and then if I was up to it any activity I wanted I was VERY active and I loved being that way I think its a good thing to a point but we have children that are in our play that were coming to play pratice SO exhausted they could barely act and they hardly new their lines took them WAY too long to learn the few lines they had I felt sorry for them. We asked one child why he tried out if he had so much going on he told us his mother made him I felt like he was telling the truth because his expression was kind of sad and tired. anyway I have said too much

redchief replied: The article is pretty much on the mark, and I have to deal with the overindulged brats on several different levels. It doesn't help that we live in a very affluent community and that the kids should all be posterchildren for overindulgence.

Example #1: I have this one young man in my CCD class who insists that he can speak to me at level (he's 13). I spoke with his mother explaining to her that I only have one hour of religeous education time for the entire class and that I would be more than happy to debate the finer points of theology with him after class hours. She was flabbergasted that I would "single out" her child by "making him stay after school" to "have a question answered." Understand now that the boy's questions are rarely on topic and IMO are more meant as a vehicle to redirect the lesson. I told her if she felt that way she could remove her son from my class at any time, but I would not allow him to continue disrupting my lessons. She went to the principal who agreed with me (I love that lady!!!), and told the mother that I was being more than generous offering time after class since I volunteer to teach CCD anyway. She repeated my offer to remove her child and enroll him in another CCD program. She said that she didn't have time to enroll him in another program since this was the only Sunday program available, and how on earth would the child learn his faith if she removed him. The smart nun answered, "Oh I don't know, maybe you could teach him yourself?" That didn't go over well and the child is still in my class, but may not speak unless spoken to.

Example #2: Working EMS I got called to the local police station for a 16 year old male who complained of head pain. I arrived and found an obviously intoxicated young man sitting handcuffed and being processed. The officer who'd arrested him and was responsible for calling us in said that the boy had been caught at a party involving young college kids and that he was under arrest for drinking under age. I asked the boy why he had head pain and he said that he didn't, but that he knew I would have to take him to the hospital (and out of the hoosegow). I asked the officer if the parents had been contacted and he confirmed that they had, but they were delayed in retrieving their nasty young son because they, too were at a party... in another state. The cop just wanted to be rid of him because they aren't allowed to put punk teens in a jail cell for misdemeanors, so he was no real help (basically the kid wanted to be dumped on me and the cops wanted rid of him). Anyway, enroute to the hospital the boy confided in me again that his didn't hurt at all (shame... I just hoped it did the next morning), and that he would rather spend the next four hours with the nice nurses than with the mean cop. The kid already racked up an underage drinking ticket, and now was knowingly going to strap his parents with a hospital ER bill, just so he could be "more comfortable." I'm pretty sure the nurses weren't as nice to the young punk as he planned... I told them the entire story on my arrival. Hey, it's my job to be as thorough as possilble.

My favorite, #3. A 19 year old female cut her foot. She demands that we stitch her on the spot. When we explain that we can't do that, and that indeed the laceration didn't look either deep or long enough to require stitches anyway, she starts screaming that her mother is a doctor and she is going to have my license (yeah, like no one's ever told me that before). Again I offer the ride to the hospital to get the little cut further assessed and she agrees, but only if three of her equally intoxicated friends come too. We explain our one rider policy and that that rider must be sober, but we get the "I'm going to sue" lecture again. At this point I've finished dressing the knockout 19 year old's little boo-boo and decided for the millionth or so time that good looks does not overcome spoiled brattiness and explain that, while we are happy to provide transport to the nearest open medical facility, safety requires that we must limit riders and that those riders must not be intoxicated. At that point she actually tells one of her friends that he's going to drive my ambulance and that I have to keep quiet. So I called the police officer who was outside the bar and had them all removed and placed in the cold cells the little punk above wasn't allowed in until they were all bailed out the next day.

Sometimes I wish I worked with the poor and downtrodden. At least they appreciate help they get.

parentinganadult replied: We have a 21-year old at home and I'd encourage all of you to dig in your heels and make everyone who lives in or stays even part of the time participate in all household chores that happen while they are there. I let things slide for too long because of problems with depression (hers) and now I have an adult in the house who never helps with housework, rarely tidies up after herself in the shared areas of the house and always has an excuse - "I have school work, I'm STRESSED, DON'T YOU KNOW?" (capitals = yelling), "I'm tired" or countless other excuses. Unless they are really ill, don't give them a break on chores. It's the thin edge of the wedge and you'll end up being their maid. It seems mean but you won't be there forever to pick up after them and it could be a husband or wife who ends up being their servant - that won't bode well for their relationship!

As for rudeness and manners ... unless there is a valid reason why they might be stressed and need some understanding, there's got to be some consequence for being rude.

Don't let it go just to buy peace for the moment. The issues just get bigger and they learn to hang in and fight you because they know you will cave in.

Been there, paying for it now.

holley79 replied:

I agree with just about everything everyone says. All you have to do is stand in line at Wal Mart and you see it everyday. If I had the guts to speak to my mother the way these kids speak to theirs I would not have any teeth. I would be gumming my food. I was brought up to respect the people around me. I was born and raised in the south where we say ma'am and sir. Not to mention I was raised with all the males in our life Navy. I think these "kids" are handed a lot more then we were. I'm like Mackaylee. If I wanted something I worked and bought it myself. Guess what when you had to work for that money you didn't blow it the way kids do with Mama and Daddies money.

I just had a run in with my stepson this weekend. If I have to hear the words XBOX 360 come out of his mouth one more time I will snap his neck. I'm sorry but it's too much money IMO. I finally had it up to my eyeballs with him. He is 17 years old. He's old enough for a J O B! I told him that I would like to see him get a job, earn the $500.00, see how long it takes to earn it, then tell me he wants the XBOX 360. With his own money of course.

We live in a "give me" society. We live in a society that makes excuses for people's actions. Working for the Sheriff's Office I see it so much. I think it is ridiclous when a parent has to call in to the SO so we can "straighten" out their kids. My mom took care of business herself.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: gumming your food... love it!!

ditto, btw. With a soapy taste in my mouth.

I have a problem with other people trying to discipline my children if I am there.

Although if my kids are temporarily in someone else's care, I don't see a problem if they need to be disciplined over something. They do have to learn to respect authority, be it a sitter, school, whatever....

DansMom replied: I dreamt about this topic overnight---the subject must have left an impression. I was trying to grow some very special flowers, and it was my responsibility to do so. I explained very earnestly to those around me that if you planted them and nurtured them wrong they would not be beautiful. They would overgrow their space, go wild, and be ugly, like these over here. If you planted them too close together, they would be stunted like these over here. I pointed to places in my garden where both of these unpleasant things had happened in the past, but I was doing my best to discipline and manage the new flowers.

TANNER'S MOM replied: Well my children are by no means perfect. And my 15 year old Brittany as smart mouthed me more than I thought she ever should. But let me tell you.. I was at my friends house over the weekend..and her teenage daughter talked to her like she was a dog.

Katie said.. Sebrina I told you Mel was getting her hair done to make sure there were no dishes in the sink. She said I aint doing them.. I am watching TV.. SHe said let Mel do them..it's her hair.

And Katie walked out of the room..and did the dishes herself. Said it wasn't worth the fight. I was floored. I couldn't believe it. If Brittany had said that me.. and referenced another adult like that.. well let's just say.. Brittany would have some Angelina Jolie lips. I said Katie you are my friend and I love and respect you. You need to demand that from your children.

I refuse to be treated that way in my home..from anyone. Child or adult. If they can't treat me right with respect..then they need to get a JOB and take care of themselves.

My kids are spoiled..they have cell phones, and IPODS.. but they must maintain grades and attend school. They must complete farm chores..and help with sibilings..but I have explained to Brittany..her father bought her a car for when she is 16. I will not buy gas.. I will not pay insurance for her. If I request her to do an errand for me then I will help with gas..but if she wants it she can work for it. If she is working and needs help I will consider it them..but no job..no car.

Her friends think that sounds so mean..and she is abused. But if everythign is handed to her..what will she do when she doesn't live at home. She will be an adult not ready to be a productive member of society..and then I will have really failed as a parent.