And now I'm in her shoes...

PrairieMom wrote: You guys remember the post a few days back about why people can't mind their own business? and Children being strapped into a car with no car seats?
I wonder if I can' find the link...

Anyway...

Today when I was picking Ben up from preschool. I watched a lady pack 4 kids into the back seat of some little VW thing (don't know my makes cars very well. ) The point is that there was only ONE car seat in there, and a child was in it, leaving 3 more children, all about 3 years old with one, MAYBE 2 seat belts in the back seat. She could barely wedge them all in there and had to make the last one hold her arm over so she wouldn't get it slammed in the door when she shut it.

The lady totally saw me watching her do this, I couldn't have been more obvious that I was watching her and amazed / disapproved of what she was doing.
So the plan is to steak the parking lot out next Thursday to see if I can catch her in the act again, get her license # and turn her in.

What would you guys do? should I turn her in to the school or call the cops?

PrairieMom replied: here is the original post.
http://forums.parentingclub.com/index.php?...ir+own+business

sparkys2boys replied: yikes, this caused alot of stink last time, but my own personal opinion is that I would talk to the school first, it may not be so drastic as the police.. this may be a one time deal.. emergency..??? Who knows??? I my-self would not allow her to transport my kids anywhere in that fasion, it's soooo unsafe and accidents can happen in a blink.

cameragirl21 replied: i'd turn her in to the school...i consider calling the cops a last resort and she could get into serious trouble with the cops and i think everyone deserves a chance to get their crap together before getting into serious trouble. i imagine the school will say something to her about it and if not, then you can call the cops.
in principle, i've always tried to stay out of things that are not my business but i think when it comes to kids being unsafe in anyone's car, that is everyone's business.

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
ITA with Jennifer!

Something should definitely be done before someone gets hurt.

PrairieMom replied:
yeah. I know. I totally hate that I am forced into this position.

The problem with turning her into the school is that I have no idea who this mom is, or who her kids are, and I really don't think the school keeps records of drivers lisence #'s. So, how do I figure out who this mom is?

boyohboyohboy replied: OH Tara I think both, I think you could be saving someones life....

gr33n3y3z replied: I'm with Jennifer on this
the school first cops second

Calimama replied: I would tell the school first. Even if they dont have a record of license plates maybe a school employee could meet you outside after school and you could show her who you are talking about. It's sad what people will do for a little convience.

luvmykids replied:
I think I'd go that route.....maybe it truly was a one time emergency deal although I can't think of what would make me do something like that; I think it's worth following up on though.

Cece00 replied: I think if you continue to see this, call the cops. It couldve been a one time thing, something she couldnt help...

my2monkeyboys replied: If you do anything at all, I'd say maybe talk to her about it. You could say something along the lines of "looks like you're really having to squeeze them in. I'd be so scared something would happen. And of course the parents could sue if it did, whether they consent or not." Kind of scare her a little into thinking about it.
I imagine the parents know (or knew, if it was a one-time thing). I think it's the parents' decision, not anyone else's.
I know, not in the main stream with this one, but it's just my 2-cents.

cameragirl21 replied:
Stephanie, it's certainly not my intention to argue with you but keeping children restrained in the car is the law and while I know you're not fond of this law, and everyone here knows i'm not fond of rules to begin with, this is IMO a law that needs to be followed to the letter without exception.
Let me tell you a little story that I lived through...when I was a teenybopper in college i worked in an emergency room with plans to become an er doctor in the future. i distinctly recall a young woman (about 21 years old) who was seven months preggo come in after a car accident. she was in the accident with her husband and 15 month old son, but the son was not with her...he was in another hospital because while the hospital i worked in had a peds er, it was not equipped with a peds trauma center that was in a position to deal with her baby's injuries. you see, Stephanie, she didn't have her son restrained, other than with her arms, sitting in her lap, so when their car was hit, he flew out of the car like a missile. the woman was pretty badly banged up and we were trying to attend to her injuries but suddenly i got an order to get her ready for a speedy discharge...her 15 month old son was being taken off of life support and she was to be discharged so she could go to the hospital where he was being treated so she could hold him one last time.
it's been about ten years since that incident but i still vividly remember them telling me to get her ready for discharge because her baby was about to die all because he was not properly restrained in the car.
that boy never got a chance to grow up as a result of a decision his parents made.
for this reason, i have no sympathy for anyone who doesn't strap a child in properly in a car, it can literally be the difference between life and death and i happen to know this firsthand because i was there when the doctor told this woman to go hold her baby one last time before he was taken off the system breathing for him and keeping his heart beating.
some years back when my godson was 2, his mother asked to ride with me in my car a few blocks from where we were to their house, meaning she'd sit in the front seat with my godson in her lap. i told her there's an airbag in my passenger seat, not to mention i don't have his carseat and i don't want my godson there and she insisted it was just for a few blocks and i said, "then we can just walk, can't we?"
no way is any child riding in my car without the proper restraints as assigned by law, not for a few blocks, not for a few seconds and yes, i do think it's other people's business when they see others ignoring this law.
if someone had reported the woman in my story, her baby would be a little boy today, here on earth and not in heaven.

redchief replied: Why not introduce yourself and offer to help with the car pool. Suggest a meeting with the other parents involved, but be understanding that she has good intentions.

PrairieMom replied:



exactly.

I figured out an obvious answer to finding out who this lady is. DUH! camera phone. So I will be armed and ready thursday on the off chance that I witness this again. I can take the picture to the school office and they can deal with it. I agree that it would be ideal to solve the problem with out getting anyone in deep trouble.
I can say tho that from the smiles on this lady's face, this didn't APPPEAR to be an emergancy situation.

CantWait replied: I'd call the cops in advance and see what they reccommend you do. They might say grab her licence plate number, or they might want to check it out for themselves. Unreal

PrairieMom replied:
This is weighing on my mind. I have thought long and hard about it, but I am terrified of confrontation to the point that I would much rather just let her go about her thing and forget that I saw anything at all. I am such a chicken.

redchief replied:
OK... how about this?

Go to the school and say, "Hey, I've noticed that on occasion students are transported to and from school in overloaded cars. I have room in mine, and I'm sure other parents do also. Is there some way the school can provide a conduit of communication for us so that we can organize a safe carpool with back-up drivers when needed?"

No confrontation needed... A flier in the monthly school newsletter would be the cost, and a meeting place and time. Perhaps even office staff could help with the organization. If that all works out and the lady still arrives with an overloaded car, you could point out that the parents have a car-pool "club" or even have another parent do it for you (in the fire service we call this "turfing the problem").

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
I like this idea best.

It always brings to mind "It takes a village to raise a child" We all need to lend a helping hand more often...it would make us feel tons better about ourselves and I'm sure those we offer to help would be forever grateful.

moped replied: Personally I think if you are possibly saving lives then the cops - chances are she would get a warning anyways, but i would call the cops. For you to talk to her I don't think she would care - the school really doesn't have much say - but these children are in danger IMO.......

Sorry you saw that - YOU GO GIRL

redchief replied: You know me, I'm a law and order kind of guy. I just don't think the police are best able to handle this. It is a community problem, and as community members with community problems, sometimes I think we're a little quick on the 9-1-1 button. I see here an opportunity to not only educate parents on the dangers of overloading cars, but to also begin a parent network with real focus. JMO though.

PrairieMom replied: maybe i will just talk to the school office and see what they suggest. Maybe I will never see that lady again, and won't have to worry about it. Why did I have to see that?!?!?!

punkeemunkee'smom replied: I did not read the original post so I may be stepping in over my head here but I do not think that calling the police is an option I would jump to first. I would possibly talk to her-maybe offer to help transport some of the kids,if it concerns you that much. I am really of the feeling that if you are not part of the solution... It FREAKS me out that people will put their children in a car unbuckled-I think it is nothing short of completely stupid It is an added risk to life and limb that is already very present when driving/riding in a car. I don't even like Taylor to be right on the door in our truck. I always make her ride in the middle- That being said where is all the righteous indignation at the hundreds of thousands of children who ride school buses everyday unrestrained? It is not safer just because they are bigger-that is proven with every crash they are in! What she is doing-transporting unrestrained kids is against the law but unfortunately you can't legislate common sense

Nina J replied: I'd call the police. She shouldn't be doing that, she's putting lives in danger. She may be doing it out of kindness, but it's dangerous and there shouldn't be any exceptions. What if it were one of your kids jammed into that car?

hoosier momma replied: I'm with Ed. You should try to work it out by yourself or with the school. Good luck!

C&K*s Mommie replied: I agree with Ed, approach the school to see if a car-pool can be set up on an "as needed" basis.

I would be reluctant to contact the police at this point.

my2monkeyboys replied:
ITA. And with Ed, as well. We are all quick to jump on this woman and the other parents without actually thinking it all through nor with offering a real solution. There are other things that parents do to their children that put them at a higher risk of injury even than riding without seat belts. This seems to be a topic that gets everyone rather heated, though.
I just hope that for her and the children's sakes, a solution will arise if there is indeed an ongoing problem with her having enough room.

C&K*s Mommie replied: ITA.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: That's the thing about Common Sense... it doesn't seem to be "common".

jcc64 replied: I'm with Ed and Abbie on this. I think immediately running to the police is not the most upright way to deal with this. Try some of their suggestions, as uncomfortable as you may be about confrontation, it's the kinder, gentler way of offering a bona fide solution as opposed to an outright condemnation. If, after these helpful interventions, she continues to defy the law, then and only then should you approach the police, imo.

holley79 replied: **Sorry this is a HUGE pet peeve of mine.**

I would contact the school first off (ahead of time) and give the vehicle description and see if a "monitor" will be in the parking lot to see what happens. If there is not someone out there to see this happen, I would then get her tag number and turn her over to the local LE. JMHO though.

TheOaf66 replied: i would mention it to the school and then they could have someone talk to them so you don't get it pinned on you. I do think something should be said though because that is not safe for the kids

jem0622 replied: I don't like confrontation either. But the one thing that I cannot stand is ignorance. As a Mom, I'd hope that you would report her. That's what I would want if my child was involved.

Now, I am sure that your glare and chin hitting the ground was enough to guilt her. Maybe see if it is repeated. If it is, then document everything and report her. I honestly would not get the school involved. They have enough to handle!

JMHO

MyLuvBugs replied: ok.....I've read most everyone's responses and you can make up your own mind as towhat to do. You've been given some great advice.

With that being said.....you asked what we'd do and for our honest opinions..... So, I say screw the school authorities, and report her directly to the police for child endangerment. If my child was one of the kids she stuffed into that itty bitty car with not car seat and little harness safety ........I'd want her slapped with a ticket or sent to jail for endangering my child's life. But that's JMHO. It is the law to have small kids in car seats. Whether we like it or not, and the school doesn't have the right to tell parents what to do INSIDE their cars. So really what is the school principal going to do?? Whereas the police can actually write her a citation for this act. Again....just my opinion, so you can take it or leave it. KUP on what you decide to do!

danahas4monkeys replied: I say talk to the school and the police I know at my daughters preschool there is a big sign on the front door that politely says "The children's safety is everyone's concern, children are to be properly transported to and from school, if you dont have the proper safety seats or buckles then please make arrangements to do so or find other arrangements for transport." And they also send regular reminders on car safety. Its a tough spot to be in , I hate confrontation too!

punkeemunkee'smom replied:


Just a thought but if she is transporting someone else's children-shouldn't they have had the wherewithal to say or at leat think to themselves-She take care of 3 kids has one of her own and has a car that only belts 3 kids in the backseat...JMHO but the presumed parents of the children she is transporting have just as much responsibilty to acknowledge the problem. The reason I am saying chill out with the police report right away is because maybe she was just picking up an extra child spur of the moment or something along those lines-If she was smiling at the kids maybe it wasn't an emergency but maybe it was a favor...It doesn't make what she did any less wrong or stupid but to call the police with no possibilty of an explinantion is a little over board. Now if I talked to her and asked her if I could help transport the kids safely and she told me to Buzz off then I would say then a call is in order-It doesn't take a village to raise a child sometimes it just takes a villager to get the idiot off the stoop

jcc64 replied: You'd want her sent to jail- for real? Again, I'm with Abbie. The parents of those other children bear some responsibility for this, don't you think? I have been in this situation before- though my kids are much much older. Upon occasion, I have been in the position of having to pick up a teenager or two whose parents were unable to get to an event on time, communication mix ups, etc. I first cleared it with the parent involved via cell phone, let them know their child would be without a seat belt, and was this something they were comfortable with. Although I would ultimately be the one to pay the ticket should I have been stopped, it's the parent's call if they want to take the risk. Sometimes, things come up, plain and simple. Yes, tragedies happen, yes, ideally children are all safely secured in regulation carseats or belts. But to want someone thrown in jail over something like this is a little over the top, imo.

cameragirl21 replied:
idk about putting her in jail but i recall some years back when i was in traffic court for yet another speeding ticket there was a lady who was in court for not having her four year old son in his carseat...she had a carseat in her car but when the cop stopped her the kid wasn't in it, nor was he restrained at all.
her excuse was that he WAS in his seat but he unfastened it because he was picking his nose and he had to lean forward to give his mom the boogers.
ummm, what?!
and the judge didn't buy it either and slapped her with a 1000 dollar fine which i think was well deserved.
there's no reason for her son not to be in his carseat, nose picker or not.
JMO of course

jcc64 replied: Of course I agree that should a carseat be available, a kid should be in it, despite his need to position himself best to extricate premium boogers for his mother's perusal. What a whack job! Were people cracking up in the court?

blue72 replied: Toddlers and school aged children are two different things. I've picked kids up from school for 1 1/2 years and watch tons of kids hop in their cars and NOT buckle up for their short rides home. It happens all the time. I believe it also makes a huge difference in the road you travel. I live in a very small town. No stop lights, no freeways, speed limit for the entire town is 25 mph. I've never heard of a serious accident happening in town. Other than a child occasionally getting hit by a car ( 2 kids in the last year). Is it safer for young children to walk home from school than ride home unrestrained. I doubt it.

MyLuvBugs replied:
Well, she asked for my honest opinion ....so.... YES I would want her slapped with a citation and/or sent to jail for endangering my childs life. IF and only if that was my child....
It's my opinion...That's all.

Yes the parents of the kids also need to take some responsibility and Yes we don't know the whole story. Perhaps, she just saw a couple of the other neighbor kids there and thought she'd be nice enough to take them home. Maybe it was a rental car. Maybe those were all her kids. I don't know! The fact is....it was illegal to not have those kids in carseats and properly restrained. True?

But...IF in the magical land of Oz it had been my child....I would consider it endangerment and wouldn't have a problem calling the police. But then again I also wouldn't have put my kids in that situation in the first place. I make sure there was a safety seat and I'd know what cars my friends/family would be driving.....even if there was an emergency.

Again....JMHO.....take it or leave it.

PrairieMom replied:
I just thought it was ironic that we just discussed this the other day, and it made me think , what would I have done in that situation? and now I am in it.