A moment of silence in school - controversial but informative topic
coasterqueen wrote: A piece of legislation was passed earlier this year in Illinois allowing for a moment of silence in school at the beginning of every day. It made it law to have this daily in school. Our governor vetoed it and the legislature recently overturned the veto in the fall veto session.
I am curious what others think about a moment of silence in school.?. I'd like to debate this in a mature manner if possible as to hope to learn from everyone who has an opinion on this subject. We have many here who are religious and many who are not - so I think this is a great opportunity to see both sides of a discussion.
I need to think more about my answer, but my short answer is I don't agree with it because it's bringing religion in to schools - taking away the separation between church and state.
A&A'smommy replied: I think its a good idea because it gives them a moment to focus and be calm..
momtoMegan&Alyxandria replied: I think it should be allowed. Just because it is a moment of silence doesn't mean you have to pray. Any person can take a moment out of there day to say a prayer, or to think about a loved one, or to just sit and be calm for 1 moment. I don't see anything wrong with it.
Calimama replied: You don't necessarily have to spend that minute praying. I'm for it.
Twelve Volt Man replied: I don't see how silence violates the separation of church and state. As stated earlier, a moment of silence can be used for anything... prayer, introspection, or contemplating the Spongebob Squarepants episode the kid watched that morning before school. Regardless of one's religious beliefs, I think this is great. Those kids who wish to pray silently, have the opportunity to do so. Those who do not, can take moment to think about whatever they want. As long as it's done silently and privately, I don't see how it could be a problem.
kimberley replied: i like that idea. i agree, it is not necessarily religious imo. they can use the time to remember a lost relative, be thankful for what they have, or even just remembering homework for the day. reflection and silence is a good thing to learn.
gr33n3y3z replied: I wish I had a moment of silence before I started work in the am
I'm for it 
boyohboyohboy replied:
I agree
My3LilMonkeys replied: I don't see it as being religious at all. Like others have said, there is no requirement to pray - not even a mention of prayer. It's just a moment to reflect on whatever you would choose to.
maestra replied: We have a moment of silence at the beginning of the school day, and I ask the students (first graders) to be thinking about how they are going to make today a great day for themselves. I don't ask them to share, just take a minute to think. For a few of my more rambunctious kids, it makes them calm down for a minute. I use the minute to pray for strength to get through the day! 
Anthony275 replied: i have silent meditation for about 5 seconds each morning, not everybody does it. i truly hate it
BAC'sMom replied: I wish I had a moment of silence anytime during my day 
I am all for it
jcc64 replied: Well, as the resident heathen here, I think you'll be a bit surprised by my answer. I don't really have a problem with it- as long as it's presented as a moment of silence, with the students free to use it as they wish. We used to have a moment of "silent meditation" in my high public school back in the 80's. I don't recall anyone looking particularly contemplative or prayerful during it, (most people used the extra minute to do homework or sleep) but I don't think the constitution was harmed by it.
We just finished studying No Child Left Behind in my ed. class, and one of the stipulations of that legislation is that any school receiving NCLB funding is mandated to allow students to pray. (which pretty much infuriates me, but I digress). NCLB is federal legislation, and so I'm interested to know what connection if any this move by the Ohio legislature had with that. NCLB was supposed to raise educational standards in schools, and frankly, I don't know what praying has to do with that (unless maybe if you're praying to pass one of the many high stakes tests. ).
Interesting subject Karen- hope it stays civilized.
CantWait replied:
 Spongebob eh?? LOL I completely agree.
I don't see anything wrong with it at all. We should all learn to take a minute everyday and contemplate, pray, or just simply relax.
luvmykids replied: I don't see a moment of silence as a violation of church and state in any way. As someone else mentioned, there is no mention of prayer so I don't see any religious connotation. Lots of people use silence and/or meditation for purposes that have nothing whatsoever to do with religion.
redchief replied:
It should surprise no one that I'm all for a moment of silence. Sometimes I wish I had a remote with a mute button - the moment of silence button as it were. It might actually solve a few problems and/or derail a nonsensical argument before it occurs. Then there are those who would undoubtedly use the moment of silence button on me. At worst it would save my voice. At best, keep me from saying something dull-witted. 
Anyway, so long as there are no requirements attached to the moment of silence that mandate that silence be occupied by prayer, I have no problem with it. If a child CHOOSES to pray, however, I believe that to be a Constitutionally protected freedom as much as, well doing nothing if that's what the child so wishes.
Finally, personally for Jeanne, you might be as described, a heathen, but you're one of the most thoughtful, morally right, socially conscious heathens I know, and I'm proud to call you my online friend and, at times, more than worthy adversary. 
jcc64 replied:
Thanks for that, Ed- it really does mean alot to me! And I might be more acurately described, in Tracy's words, as a "spiritually inclined heathen". I believe in SOMETHING, it's just not easily definable. 
coasterqueen replied: I agree to the fact that as long as it's presented as a moment of silence and not of a religious nature I am ok with that. Most legislators who argued for the legislation argued the same concept - just a moment of silence in the crazy lives we lead. I'm not sure what a moment of silence at the beginning of the school day really does, though. Wouldn't it be better some other time of the day after the day has gotten chaotic? I just think the motive behind the legislation is of a religious nature and eventually there will be even more legislation brought to the forefront like this.
I think for me, personally, this legislation was a hot button because they spent a lot of time debating this subject on overturning the veto, yet they still haven't agreed on the funding for our schools, etc for this budget year. 
jcc64 replied:
I'm sure you're absolutely right about that, Karen. Just as people argue that medical marijuana laws, and limits on access to abortion are backdoor efforts at the larger respective agendas, I also believe that the Ohio legislature has alterior motives. However, we can only take it one law at a time, and watch how it is applied.
Another thing I just learned in my ed. class- in the early 70's, the Supreme Ct handed down a decision strictly limiting the use of public funds for private/relgious education, and was VERY clear about respecting the separation of church and state in the schools. In 2002, with a different court obviously, they heard another case about publicly funding religious schools in Cleveland, I believe, and they overturned much of that earlier decision. Many people within the education field believe that NCLB is actually a backdoor effort to fund/promote the voucher system- and I happen to agree with that. This is a little ot, but not really. As I said, there are alot of religious provisions included in NCLB legislation that have nothing at all to do with "standards" and everything to do with the agenda of Bush's base- the religious right.
It's a very slippery slope, and I share your concerns about passing laws like the one in Ohio, but then again- to go up against it labels us civil libertarians as unreasonable.....heathens, for lack of a better word.
Kaitlin'smom replied: as long as its a moment of silence I have NO problem with it.
avory&samsmom replied:
totally with ya! I think we could all use a moment of quiet before starting the day!
coasterqueen replied:
I will have to say this is one area that I'm not happy with my Republican president. I think there should be separation of church and state and I agree he has the two on his agenda.
Shocking, huh? 
Boo&BugsMom replied:
This actually is any students right, anywhere, no matter if the school is connected with NCLB or not.
As for the initial question, of course there are going to be people who assume and look way more into it than it should be...some people really need to just stop makin a mountain out of a molehill, IMO (I mean that in general, not anyone here). Meditation and moments of silence are not just connected with religion. As many others stated, I wish I could just have a moment of silence sometimes. Sitting in silence helps you focus, and with the way school is now a days, kids need that focus. If it helps the kids to do better in school, then I'm all for it. I see it no different than sitting on my front porch in the quietness listening to the wind blow.
coasterqueen replied:
It became a "mountain out of the molehill" when it became LAW that we have to provide a moment of silence. I like the arguments against the issue that I heard from legislators that we do not need government to tell us we HAVE to provide a moment of silence. Go have your moment of silence in the bathroom, anywhere. It's ridiculous that we had to make this a law. A moment of silence was already provided to students if they needed it before it was law. So if a student wanted a moment of silence they just needed to ask for it. They could go out in the hall and have one.
I'm just thinking that my tax dollars could have been better spent legislators making laws that protect me and not forcing me to have some type of moment of silence in school. Don't we have enough other problems in the world that need to be solved than forcing our children to take a moment of silence in school? Seriously! Don't we have better things to do with our time, like getting our kids an education that's better than what they are offered?
Boo&BugsMom replied:
So you are saying if it helps your child focus better in school and obtain better grades than you are against it??? 
coasterqueen replied:
Are you telling me that a moment of silence is going to help them focus better or get good grades?
luvmykids replied:
I have a few comments here, Jeanne or anyone who feels similarly, and I trust they'll be taken as they are intended, as part of a sincere desire to understand the other side. If this is too far OT feel free to respond in a pm. I'm having some trouble finding the right words so if I sound aggressive that is not in any way my intention.
I don't understand why people who are anti-religious rights (for lack of better term) seem to have no ability to comprehend the similarity in the opposing sides; both sides want their freedoms, both sides want their choices protected, neither side wants government interference with regard to what you choose to practice as far as religion and/or spirituality are concerend. Why can't the libertarian or heathen folks understand that I don't want to force my choices down anyones throat, I just want my rights to my choices fully available? It seems to me that anytime religion is part of any public forum, whether it be school, sports, or Nascar, there are plenty of folks who complain about prayer or religion being present. But can you (generalized) see how fighting that IS seen by someone like me as taking my rights away? You know, the old "You don't like it, you don't have to participate" type thing. I guess what gets me hot about these topics is I feel like it's a bit hypocritical for a group of people to talk about freedoms, and wanting theirs honored, to achieve that by taking away someone elses. I would honestly love to hear why, even if it was worded as a moment of silence or prayer, or whatever, that is so offensive to people who generally brag about their tolerance and wanting equality for all when I feel totally intolerated.
Sorry that got so long, I guess I always feel when these topics come up that they go the route of the conservatives trying to explain themselves to the less conservatives, and feel the end result is the liberals summing it up that we're a bunch of mindless ninnies, and me not having any further insight. So I thought I'd take a shot this time at getting straight answers from those of you who may be able to help me things from the liberal perspective.
luvmykids replied: Karen, as for the moment of silence taking place at the beginning of the day, for me personally I like that timing....after the rush and chaos of getting to school, talking to friends, etc, I think it's a great time to get focused and centered and on track. JMHO.
coasterqueen replied: I understand your point, Monica, but no one was taking away the right to have a moment of silence. At least in our state, it was debated and understood that if one wants a moment of silence they could have it. That's not taking anything away. What the law did was take away my right to go about school like it always has been - now I'm being shoved in the face with the fact that our class is FORCED to have a moment of silence - albeit however I choose to spend that moment of silence is not the issue.
I guess I'm confused by your views on this subject. If it became law that you LOST your right to a moment of silence I can see your views, but that was not the case. Instead we were FORCED to have a moment of silence. So my right to proceed with class the way it was was taken away.
Boo&BugsMom replied:
How could it not? Sitting in quitness and gathering yourself. Don't you ever want to just escape and sit in the quiet to gather yourself up? If not, try it. It does a world of good. It helps you remain calmer going on with the rest of your day. No different for a child, especially when in today's world where school isn't all about fun and bubblegum anymore.
coasterqueen replied:
Yeah, I've done it. I do it for migraines, but I can guaranty one minute is NOT going to make a huge difference in how someone does in class the rest of the day. Some kids can't even calm down long enough to be silent a moment.
Are you telling me that when you take a moment (minute) of silence that makes everything better for you? For me I need more than a minute.
Boo&BugsMom replied: Karen also try thinking of it this way. There are some teachers out there who run those kids so ramped (sp?) that the kids have no time to almost breath during the day. If your child gets a teacher like that, you'll be thanking your lucky stars your child has that moment of silence. School isnt' like it use to be, especially with all the requirements that are expected of the children, teachers often times can not even cram everything into the day that need to be done. This moment gives teachers a time to focus as well, and with all the things teachers need to do nowadays with the kids, it is needed not only for the kids, but for the teachers as well.
Boo&BugsMom replied:
But here is no moment of silence TO take away, with all the things that teachers have to cram into one day. Have you ever helped out in a 3rd grade classroom? I suggest to. It's pretty hectic. There is no time for any kind of silence.
Boo&BugsMom replied:
You betcha it does. And it does even more for a child who is constantly on the go at school.
luvmykids replied:
I guess I'm equally confused by yours, I'm just not understanding why, especially with zero mention of religion, it's bothersome. And no, this didn't take away my right to a moment of silence, but there is no denying that many would be thrilled if any and all of my rights to any public show of religion were, in fact, a thing of the past.
I'm far from a crazed religious zealout, I'm sure there are folks who roll their eyes and sum me up in their little box as a blind and brainless conservative. Maybe this is a different issue altogether, but based on comments in general it appears to me that some people are offended by the fact that someone might actually use the moment of silence to pray, even if nobody else was even aware of it, as if the very thought that during that moment someone could be praying (gasp!) is offensive.
Obviously I'm on the more conservative end of the spectrum, I have never been able to understand why total absence of religion is better than tolerance of it and that's what I'm wanting to hear, I guess.
Boo&BugsMom replied:
Wonderfully said Monica.
coasterqueen replied:
Well I could understand that argument if the moment of silence was in the middle of the day after the teachers ran them rampant a bit.
coasterqueen replied:
I can understand you believe that for yourself, but can you really be sure it does for children?
luvmykids replied: FWIW, Karen, and more related to the actual topic at hand, I agree with you that it's a silly law, that legislation is spending time on things like this, especially the amount of time you said they spent debating it.
Personally, I think it's too bad that teachers don't have enough say in their own classroom to choose whether to practice something like that or not on their own accord and that it is one more thing the government insists on micromanaging. I don't have a problem with the act itself, think it's a good idea, but the fact that it's a law is a little ridiculous.
coasterqueen replied:
No, I can't say I have, but I have helped out in K, 1st grade and 2nd grade classes
Boo&BugsMom replied:
Yep, we use to do it all the time when I taught preschool.
Also, even though it says the moment of silence will be in the mornings, I am sure each school COULD do it in the afternoon or whenever they want to, as long as it's provided I am sure they wont get in trouble. To be honest, schools already do this sometimes....remember ever putting your head on your desk in school? Isn't that more or less the same thing?
coasterqueen replied:
Yes, but we don't need to make it law to be FORCED to have that now, did we?
lovemy2 replied:
I am jumping in here before I have read all the responses but just wanted to respond to this in particular in the sense that I am all for MANDATING the moment because although it would be nice if kids could identify that they need that moment everyday not many of them are able to identify it - this is a good way IMO to show them a way - doing things over and over becomes a habit - if kids at a young age make a habit out of taking a moment EACH day maybe they would have better days and maybe the insane things like school shootings, violence, etc. would not happen - now I know that is pretty wishful thinking but it could only take a moment to changes someone's mind about doing something - I know sometimes if I count to 10 - which in my eyes is really only a moment - I am able to reevaluate what I was about to do
Boo&BugsMom replied: I'm sorry I just don't understand what the big deal is. So your child sits there for a minute or two...is it really THAT huge of a deal? There are other requirements way worse if you ask me. Didn't you in the past also say you were thinking about sending your child to a private school? They do more than just sit in moments of silence there. Sorry if I am wrong, but I thought you had thought about it awhile back. I guess none of what you are upset about makes sense to me. Sorry if I don't understand right, but I just don't get it. IMO, there are just way bigger things to be upset by.
coasterqueen replied:
Ah yes, but if I sent them to private school I would be making a CHOICE knowing that they are having a moment of silence, etc. The government telling me I have to is another thing. Now if they government thought this was in my best interest for safety, etc I can see that. But I don't think my life is going to be ruined because I am not forced to have a moment of silence. I think there are many of us here who went through school without a daily moment of silence and are not ruined by any means.
So the big deal is the government forcing me to do so. The government needs to be there to pass laws that protect me, my children etc - not to tell me how to run parts of my life that are NOT affecting anyone. For smoking in cars - health hazard - government can be all over that. Can you tell me what the hazard truly is when it comes to a moment of silence that the government needs to waste my time passing the law? Aren't there more serious things they should be more worried about?
Not sure about your state, but the legislative process here is each legislator has to introduce a certain number of bills. Lots of frivolous bills get introduced because the legislator has nothing else important to introduce. I can assure you this was one of those bills.
coasterqueen replied: Also, don't you think if we let them take this minute liberty away from us that they will keep taking more of them away from us? This isn't an interest of safety here.
jcc64 replied: OK, I'm having a little bit of trouble getting through this post for technical reasons- not sure why. I think I basically got the gist of what's been said, though. Monica, since you singled me out, I guess I feel compelled to respond as the mouthpiece of the meaney, intolerant "liberals", though I feel a little uncomfortable representing my views as anything other than my own.
Let me preface this by pointing out that in my original post in this thread, I actually said that I don't really have any issues with a formal moment of silence in and of itself, so how I came to be the voice of dissent is a little unclear to me.
But you asked for some insight into the "anti-religious rights" mindset- though I have to admit your choice of words was pretty offensive to me. How about "separatists" (as in, separation of church and state)? As Karen and was it Jennie, already pointed out- you already have the right to pray anywhere and anytime you want to. Why do you need a formally designated moment to access your higher power? If you want to pray, pray- who's gonna climb into your head and control your thoughts and make you stop it? Pray in biology, pray in homeroom, pray in the lockerroom- pray on the football field. Pray away. But to devote valuable time and resources in both the legislatures and the schools to designating an official time to pray or meditate (but let's at least be honest here- praying is what we're argueing about) is emblematic of where the problems start. NOBODY (at least in the political world) cares about the need of children to de-stress in school- not enough to pass a law ensureing it. We all know that's not what this is really about- and the pretense itself is a big part of the problem for me.
I would hazard a guess that at the root of this whole situation in Ohio is a small group of religious conservatives pandering to their base- and THAT is what I resent. Not the right of people to pray, or contemplate their navels, but the devious way that lawmakers are trying to denigrate the original intentions of the constitution. It's all very covert and underhanded, but breaking down the wall between church and state is EXACTLY what some conservative politicians (please take note of the word "some" ) intend to do because they do want religion in our public schools.
Monica, you are a very reasonable and open minded person. You seem very invested in tolerance, and understanding others. However, the mistake we all tend to make in these situations is that we view the world through our own lense. The separtion of church and state is important b/c not everyone is as concerned about the rights of others as you are, and many people feel it is their duty to evangelize to the unenlightened or un-saved. I will give you an example. In NJ recently, there was litigation involving a boy who secretly recorded his history teacher proselytizing and delivering overtly religious sermons in a public high school history class. The kid complained about it, but no one believed him, or felt compelled to acknowledge the problem until the kid wnet public with the recordings. At which point, the teacher flipped out b/c his constitutional right to privacy was somehow invaded by being secretly taped. (which probably doesn't even exist anymore anyway). The teacher didn't seem too concerned about his own role in violating the constitution.
What would happen if other teachers disrespected the line he crossed? If the safeguards aren't guarded carefully, that's exactly what could happen. The lines have to be drawn somewhere, or they'll just keep shifting- it's happened many times in human history.
You have the right to worship as you please. No one is taking that away from you. But if it is so vital to you that religion permeate your child's day at school- you have other options.
I hope that you have a better understanding of the mindset you were questioning. I also hope that you don't come away from this conversation feeling that I've accused you of being a "mindless ninny" because of your convictions. I sincerely envy people with strong religious convictions- it must be truly comforting to have such absolute faith. But faith is personal, and it shouldn't be formally brought into a public classroom. At least not outloud.
coasterqueen replied: Ok, Jeanne - as always you say it best. Yes you are right, we do have options -- it's called private schools.
Anthony275 replied: how the heck did this go to religion?
Boo&BugsMom replied:
Karen, we just disagree on this, and that's ok. I'll just agree to disagree. I just don't think it's a big deal. The government forces us to do a lot I don't like, but this is one that really doesn't cause any harm, IMO.
Boo&BugsMom replied:
In a perfect world anyone could just send their children to a private school if they wanted. But, that's not a realistic mindset. By all means, if someone will pay for my boys to go to a private school I'd be all for it. That's not always an option for everyone.
coasterqueen replied:
I respect your opinion, too.
luvmykids replied:
Firstly, I apologize for offending you with my choice of words. You're absolutely right, "anti-religious rights" is a strong term and really not what I meant, I couldn't think of the word separatist at the time and sincerely didn't mean that term as it came off. I'm genuinely sorry for that 
Secondly, I didn't mean to single you out, as in target you. I only used your post/name specifically because it raised specific questions directly related to what you'd said and TBH I wanted to hear more from you; you are one of the people on the opposite end of the spectrum who I respect and actually learn from. Thank you for your reply.
I'm not concerned with religion permeating my childs day when I chose to enroll them in public school. I'm taking this off topic, what I was referring to is the bigger picture I suppose, that someday soon God may very well be taken out of the pledge, that teams will not be allowed to pray before a game in the public eye if they so choose, etc...those are the things that make me question how someone practicing their religious freedoms came to be so offensive to so many. The way that ties in to the point of this thread was that I got the impression, which I admit ahead of time may be the wrong impression, that the problem for some people is that a moment of silence could potentially be used as a moment of prayer by some and therefore violates church and state. I can't make that connection, for me it's a pretty big leap to assume that such a moment is automatically bringing religion into the mix. Depending on who introduced the legislation, I suppose it could in fact be a back door attempt to bring religion to public school, but the basic premise of a moment of silence does not equate to that IMHO. Which brings me back to the beginning, I understood clearly that you have no problem with the actual moment of silence itself, and I did stray rather far off topic just because, as I said, you raised some questions for me and I appreciate you answering them.
Cece00 replied: Schools can have a "moment of silence" without there being a LAW to enforce it. I dont think they should make it a law. If schools think its such a good idea, they should just do it on their own.
redchief replied:
This is going to make everyone but the few who really know me double take.
While I said I wasn't opposed to a moment of silence in school, I am opposed to a law requiring that a moment of silence be set aside. I think it should be up to the educators to set their schedule for the day, not some silly funding rule. Will a moment of silence make for a better learning environment? Maybe. Can a bureaucrat in Washington tell from his high horse if it will make it so? Heck no! Could different schools have different disciplinary needs that might better gauge whether or not a moment of silence in the beginning of a day or class period would be prudent. Sure, and it should be up to the school, teachers and local curriculum directors to decide these things, not the aforementioned Washington nanny.
So, if "No Child Left Behind" requires that a moment be set aside in order for funding to be allowed, I'm opposed to it. On the other hand, if a school or teacher desires to begin their day with a moment of silence, they should be permitted to do so. While that may be an invitation to prayer for faithful, it's certainly not prayer as an institution, though I'm sure some would see it as so. If "No Child Left Behind" protects the school system's right to allow a moment of silence, then I see no issue, aside from the the fact that the issue is in there at all (but that's another issue).
On to the other issue... Laws make me mad. Why can't legislation providing needed funding concentrate on the fair distribution of the funds without micro-managing? I can almost hear the representative who inserted a moment of silence reference now, "We have a small but loud group of people who are opposed to my constituents' children taking a moment of their day out to focus and silently prepare themselves on the grounds that it violates the separation of church and state. Here I have an opportunity to put that nonsense to bed."
My questions to that representative (yes, I know I took a little artistic leave here) are: Why do you think you should salve your constituents with wording in a federal document when the problem is in your region? Why is it so important for you to place your personal micromanaging stamp onto a document that has the ability (if not in fact) to help kids in this country get a better education, and who don't care about your gadflies? Why shouldn't your problems be handled on the local level?
Regarding the proselytizing history teacher in Kearny, NJ, this man should have been fired. Everyone should know that he was not. While I've said before that the "separation of church and state" is a liberal myth, I also am a firm believer that religious education belongs in church and at home, not in a public school. This teacher was also a Baptist minister, but that doesn't give him the right to threaten his elementary school students with hellfire, nor does he have any historical proof that dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark, as he proselytized. He deviated from approved curriculum. Why do I think the man's tenure had something to do with the fact that he's still in front of a classroom? At any rate, kudos to the kid for being brave enough to square off against this moron. Shame on his parents and the school board for whitewashing it all. Oh, the settlement was that the kid was publicly praised, the school brought in the Anti-defamation League (not sure if they would have been my choice, but whatever) to train teachers and students about separation of church and state, and the parents praised the school board for their intuition and actions. Way too much back patting for me.
Oh, and the teacher complained that the kid violated his right to privacy by secretly recording him. That's just funny. He's a public employee, on the clock receiving public funds to teach children that belong to the people that make his job possible. He forfeits the right to privacy while he's at work by working for the public. Too bad, minister. Go back to your church.
MommyToAshley replied:
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone had this mindset -- on both sides of the issue. I think if we all had more tolerance, then there wouldn't be a need for this law or many of the other silly laws.
This topic brought up a lot of interesting points... I didn't know the NCLB law included the requirement for schools to allow prayer in order to receive federal funding. When I first read that statement, I thought that was crazy and I was completely against it. But, then I reread the statement, and as long as it doesn't require prayer, I don't see how it is any different than what has been permitted. If you want to pray, then pray, but you are not required to.
As for vouchers that was mentioned, I agreed with the law as it was originally written, but the law that was passed is nothing like the original law that was proposed. The new law is demographically selective and not an equal opportunity law as it was initially intended to be. I do live in Ohio where vouchers are practiced, and it's been a big controversy around here and I think there has been a lot of pressure to do away with vouchers. But, that is an entirely different debate.
As for your original question Karen, I think a moment of silence is fine in the morning as long as it isn't mandated that it be used for prayer. You'd probably be surprised, but I am not an advocate of requiring prayer in public schools (unless it is a private, religious school). Where I have a problem is when the government tries to interfere and take the word "God" out of our historical documents. Even if someone doesn't believe in God, the documents should be studied as they were originally written from a historical perspective. Again, an entirely different debate.
All-in-all, I think it is a pretty silly law, but probably a necessary one for the very reason that Monica pointed out -- too many people are intolerant of others. It is ridiculous that your tax dollars had to be spent for government officials to debate this issue at length, but then again, this is one of the longest threads on this board.
gr33n3y3z replied:
maybe bc thats what people fear could happen but wont or cant control
who knows lol
Hillbilly Housewife replied: Hee hee - I stopped reading halfway down the 2nd page... I'm going to have to come back and catch up later...
just wanted to add my 2cents
I think that having a moment of silence is fantastic. I've always had it at the schools I went to. Of course, I grew up on military bases and so I pretty much always went to military base schools, where every day we had to take a moment of silence to think about those who were away on training, assignments, etc etc... it was part of the life. When my parents separated and my brother and I were uprooted here to Ottawa, away from everything we'd always known, a total different change of pace... all of a sudden, not every man we saw on the street was dressed in combats or other uniform, not every woman we saw was either a stay at home mom or a teacher (and I'm being general here, obviously not every man\woman was... but think of it from a child of 10's eyes)... one thing that I think was crucial for us when we moved away from our former life, was the same standard in schooling.
Our days at our schools were pretty much structured the same way... and the moment of silence that we were allowed in school (I went to catholic schools all my life and never once was it ever called a minute of prayer or any other connotation of religion) was used to think about my old life, my old friends, the mess halls, the army wife meets with the kids... the bases themselves. I was \ am thankful for that time that I was allowed, to think about things that were important to me... and not have to think about things that other people expected me to think about.
I agree with whoever said that it should be allowed, regardless of religion etc... a moment of silence for quiet contemplation is fantastic. The kids who want to do it should be allowed to step out in the hall though, not to be bothered by those kids that just don't give a rat's tushy and can't shut up for a minute. However... the government should never have stuck it's big fat nose and made it law. To think that they wasted Cabinet time discussing whether schools should be forced to implement a MINUTE OF SILENCE is almost insulting... it's as if they don't care about the more important issues and have wasted their time talking and passing a bill about a minute of silence instead of, for example, talking about proper food labelling. Or sanitary practices to ensure that the food we buy is not contaminated with potentially deadly diseases. Or that the toys that we buy our precious children aren't toxic for them.
In the grand scheme of things... a minute of silence seems such a trivial thing for a government to discuss, and it's insulting that the government should dictate that the children NEED to do it...it's just a friggin minute of silence. over half the kids won't be able to shut up long enough for it anyways.
coasterqueen replied: I just want to thank everyone for your thoughts on this. It's nice to be able to debate this in a mature way and learn a little something. I know I did. I agree, I can accept a moment of silence if it's something the school agrees on (as well as parents, IMO - I think it should be a school board voted issue), but to have the government involved in this is just downright silly IMO and they have no business being in it.
Again, thank you.
lisar replied: Here is my opinion on this.
Everyone on here knows that I am NOT a religious person. However I think a moment of silence in the schools is a good idea. For the same reasons as most people stated. If they dont wanna pray, then they can think about whatever they want. Its their choice no matter what. You cant force someone to pray anyways. Lexi prays. Its her choice. I dont condem her for it. I dont force my beliefs on my children, and neither does dh. He grew up in church and believes. I didnt. We have both sides and show our kids both sides and let them choose. Me and dh have debated this topic till we turn blue, and we walk away with a little more knowledge than what we had to begin with.
danahas4monkeys replied: We had a moment of silence in the mornings where I went to school in KY as long as I can remember and even back then we were told to do what we wanted whether it be pray or just clear our minds for the day ahead or just be quiet and still, I'm ok with it as long as its left up to the kids what they want to do with their silence!
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