5 year old son and bullying

MoM-oF-3-MoNsTeRs wrote: I am having a problem with my 5 year old son. He has been bullying the 4 year old boy I babysit. This has been happening for awhile now and has gotten better since school started and my son isn't home while Brandon is here (Brandon comes 3rd shift now and is gone before my son gets out of kindergarten). My son likes to get a rise out of Brandon by going up to him and picking at him, be it hitting, taking toys from him or pushing him, etc. I have tried several different things to get control of this. One that worked the best so far was making my son give Brandon a kiss and hug and apologize every single time he would tease or pick at Brandon. It obviously hasn't completely solved the problem, as my son still bullies him from time to time. Brandons mom and I have racked our brains trying to get my son to stop bullying and trying to get Brandon to defend himself. By nature, Brandon isn't one who likes to hit back. So my questions are:
1. Why is my son doing this?
2. Is this typical 5 year old boy behavior?
3. Any suggestions on how to put a stop to it?

This is the only child I babysit at the moment, so I don't know if he would do it to other boys too if they were here or if it is just something about Brandon that makes my son want to pick on him. My sons teacher said he is great at school. He is shy and doesn't cause trouble. And he gets a Happy Gram every Friday for good behavior. I don't understand what it is about Brandon that is making him a target and what the payoff is for my son for doing this.
Any advice you all could give me would be appreciated.

momofone replied: Hi - I am only guessing but maybe it's a jealously issue with the boy you babysit? Maybe he is looking for attention in some way. Maybe some special alone time with him on a one on one basis in someway. Hope that helps.

gr33n3y3z replied: maybe he just like to have you to himself
you never really know what they are thinking

Maddie&EthansMom replied: I sometimes notice with children that the more docile the child, the more prone they are to being bullied. And it could be Brandon's reaction to things that makes him a target for your son. Not all kids get along. At this age they are finding their personalities and just as we have personality conflicts with other adults, so do our children with other children.

I think you are doing the right things. Have you kept this child long? Could it be a brotherly type relationship?

redchief replied: I'm going against the current here, I know, but I think you having your son kiss and hug the other boy will do nothing but create a strong resentment. That is, your son is humiliated at having to kiss and hug another boy. Your son can't take this resentment out on you because you're the parent and you're bigger. He can act out by continuing to bully Brandon, though. He's five... Three-year-older discipline won't work on him anymore. At five, he understands that the forced hugs and kisses have nothing to do with his real emotion, and I can almost understand why he'd continue to act out.

You have to get real with your son. That means strong discipline. Time outs should be foremost and immediate for any bullying. I'm not talking five minutes in a corner. I'm talking about 20 minutes or more of removal from activity, followed by a sincere apology. Insincere apologies warrant further punishment. When he has properly apologized then, and only then should he be allowed to join in activities again. If time-outs alone don't work (time-outs should always be part of punishment for bullying in my opinion), then something he likes should be removed; a favorite toy, desert, an activity he likes. Be strong... This won't be easy, but if you don't get him to control himself in a controlling situation, he'll be the bully in high school who beats the tar out of the passive intellectual for no other reason than he can.

MoonMama replied: I have no advice really as my son is only 11 1/2 months. I would guess jealousy too, I also wanted to offer some hugs.

Welcome by the way! I'm Ally 23 SAHM to Braedin.

coasterqueen replied: Is your son a lot bigger than the other kid? Does he bully other kids and if so is he bigger than them? I ask because Kylie used to do this, although it was when she was much younger (2 - 3). She's 5 now. I noticed she'd only bully kids younger or smaller than her. Have you talked to your son's teacher to find out whether he is doing this at school, too? All these factors could help possibly determine why he's doing it to the daycare child.

MoM-oF-3-MoNsTeRs replied: I can kinda see the jealousy thing, but then again I have been babysitting Brandon for 4 1/2 years. He is like a brother to my kids. Why the jealousy all of a sudden? Isn't this something my son would have been doing all along? Plus I was babysitting a little girl for a little over a year and he never bothered her, just Brandon. And the little girl I was watching was a baby whom I would cuddle with alot, and who required alot of hands-on care (feeding, changing, rocking, etc). You'd think that would make him more jealous than Brandon, who has been around for alot longer than the baby was.
Maybe it does have something to do with size. Brandon has always been small for his age. He's more on the small frame, slender side, whereas my son is more solid. I do realize that making him hug and kiss Brandon was probably just humiliating him and probably just creating more resentment in him towards Brandon. I guess the longer time-outs and taking away favorite possesions will have to be my next step. I tried behavior charts at one point and the kids all got stickers if they had a good day. That worked for awhile until the stickers got boring. LOL
Thank you for the suggestions. I'll let you all know what I try and if it works!

coasterqueen replied: I know this probably doesn't help and I'm sure you have done this, but it's my only other suggestion. It's so hard to understand a clear picture without actually being there. You know I've tried everything under the sun on various things for my girls but sometimes NOTHING works. KWIM? So I'm sure you've tried everything. Anyways, have you sat down with him and really explained to him how he is hurting Brandon's feelings and what it would feel like to him if someone did that to him - how'd he feel, etc? This is really starting to work for my 5 year old, Kylie, especially when she picks on her younger sister.

MoM-oF-3-MoNsTeRs replied: I have explained to him that it does hurt Brandons feelings. I even went so far as to ask him how he would feel if mommy had to work and I had to take him to some ladies house for daycare and she had a son that was bigger than him and he got teased and picked on all day. He saw my point, and said he wouldn't like it, but he still hasn't stopped. At first I thought it was just a typical boy phase. But if that were the case, it wouldn't still be going on over a year later. I dunno. Something has to work eventually. I certainly do not want this going on into his teen years. Overall he is a sweet little boy. He just has this streak in him that I can't seem to fix.

mummy2girls replied: I run a dayhome and im dealing with that with jenna my daughter.

I think its because its his territory, his toys and your his mommy. What has been working for me is having mommy and daughter days. where once a week i make it where i take my daughter to the park, amusement park, zoo or toy store. or even just out to lunch. That way its just me and her. Because she is at school for half a day and then she has to deal with sharing her toys for the other half and then she has to share me with my fiance. I think she needs just me at times.

try that and see if it works. also timeouts and consequenses right when he hits or whatever he does...

redchief replied:
This is a truth; male bullies almost always bully other, smaller males, almost never females. Female bullies, on the other hand, typically see both genders as fair game.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this, but on the plus side, you're dealing with it early, which needs to be done! I agree that charts will do no good at this point. I don't think that good behavior charts are any use whatsoever after a child begins school. Good luck!

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I can tell you, I know how you feel. Tanner went through bouts like this. For one, remember this is HIS home. He feels the need to defend it. It is his "castle" persay. I don't know how it is with your son, but Tanner would get like this during daycare hours, but never was like that anywhere else. I attributed it to him being tired of sharing his home and his trying to tell me that he wanted his own space, which is sometimes hard to get when he is sharing his home for many hours a week. Tanner had known the kids in my home since practically birth, but they still get tired of sharing things...mom, toys, home, etc. Make sure he has a place he can go to be alone if he needs, be it his bedroom or somewhere else. I use to tell Tanner if he got sick of playing with the other kids he could always go in his room and play...I never allowed anyone to play in there, it was HIS space.

I would say it is typical, for a boy who shares his home consistantly with other kids.

You can try role playing. When a situation occurs stop the situation and go back and explain what he should have done. Talk to him when the other kids are not around. Ask him how he's feeling. He might feel like he has to compete with other boy. It's really not much different than competing with a sibling.

I know it sounds weird being that he has known this child for so long, but kids are no different than adults. Think about it...how would you feel if an unwanted guest wouldn't go away? How would you feel if someone came to practically live with you and overstayed their welcome? Kids, just like adults, need space from others. For them it's cool at first to have playmates over, but then it gets to be tedius (sp?) and they get tired of it. Know what I mean?

Not sure if I explained it well. I experienced much of what you are with my Tanner. I ask his teacher repeatedly how he is in school too (just started K), and he is doing wonderfully and gets along great with the kids. At church too, he never gets in trouble. BUT...at home...it's just different, that's their territory.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Oh...forgot to say stuff that worked for Tanner...#1...sitting up in his room for 20-30 minutes at a time (NO playing). #2...taking priveledges away (tv, computer time, etc.). #3...making him sincerely apologize. #4...making sure his feelings were heard.

redchief replied:
I don't buy this at all. Please don't take this the wrong way; I just disagree with the rationalization. Where does one stop with the protection of what is theirs? This is my school bus, and I don't want you in it. This is my classroom and I don't like you here. This town ain't big enough for the two of us. To me this is simply rationalizing unacceptable behavior.

Many kids are placed in positions where they could well feel as if they were being invaded by unwelcome guests, and they don't act out like that. Why would it be OK in any case? Hurting another person simply because they are smaller is wrong regardless of how you rationalize.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Ed, let me just say, as kind as I possibly can, that you will have no clue unless you have ran your own childcare center in your home! Your school bus/classroom example is completely different. And I am not saying it is OK...it is just typical for a child whose parent runs a childcare out of their home. I never said it was OK, please tell me where I said it was ok...I said it's just common for this type of situation...because I have been there as many others have been in this line of work. If you ran one out of your home, you'd know what I was talking about and would understand, but you don't.

Anthony275 replied:
i remember when i was in kindergarten i would boss around this girl on my bus and this one time, i tied her shoelaces together. so that fact isnt always right

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Tanner use to get defensive over the new kids I got. They were also always girls. So that don't fit here either.

Anthony275 replied: i used to always do that with girls. then i got sent to the principal's office in kindergarten, then again in 2nd grade. never did it again

grapfruit replied:
You probably liked her!

Anthony275 replied: nope, she's in my class this year and im afraid of her. shes a boxer now.

Kirstenmumof3 replied: I think he may be doing this because now there is competition. Someone in his own age group. I think what you are doing is wonderful and should continue to encourage the positive behaviour!

redchief replied:
Being defensive and being offensive are two different things. Defensive = protecting oneself from harm. Offensive = harming another without clear provocation. I would not place a child of mine into a home where bullying occurred. It's difficult to think of a child of ours as a bully. It doesn't paint us in a very good light, so rationalization occurs. I don't think there's a bit of difference between bullying in a house to anywhere else. Bullying happens for two reasons. The first is that the bully feels empowered. The second is that everyone else allows it, for whatever the reasons given.

I was the little guy in school. I got beaten, spit on, rotten vegetables thrown at me, belittled and constantly teased. Then I grew up. Better yet, I grew up bigger than most of the people who I used to be smaller than. I thought about getting even, but realized that I would have been no better than those that worked me over. I did, however, demand respect, and still do. So, on the one hand, being on the victim side of bullying was not a little pathetic, but on the other, I learned that nothing is permanent and as I look at those bullies today, they have not been successful. So, while it may be fair to rebuke me for judging the home childcare environment, please don't deign to tell me I don't what bullying is or how parents rationalize it.

On the issue of males bullying females, let me say that I qualified those facts with the word "almost." There are exceptions to every rule. I certainly hope you've apologized for bullying a girl.

MoM-oF-3-MoNsTeRs replied: I can see how this could be a learned behavior, but I have no clue where he would have learned it from. He just started going to school a little over a month ago, so it's not something he learned there. No one else in the home bullies, and I am careful about what I allow my kids to watch on television.
I think I'm gonna lean towards the longer time outs. He hates when I make him go sit on his bed away from his toys.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Ok, let me clarify...Tanner "picked on" the new girls.

I also wanted to say Ed, I don't disagree it's bullying. Bullying is bullying, no matter where it takes place, and it's not acceptable. My only point was that the reasonings for the bullying in this situation, may be different than others because of the OP running a daycare and it's in the child's home. It's still bullying, it's just the reasonings are different, anyone who runs a daycare (dayhome for those in Canada) can relate and understand if their child has been in this situation. I've been there, and remarkably now that my center is closed, when Tanner has playmates over (the SAME ones even), his behavior is totally different.

I also think that a lot of bullying is learned, but not all. I do also think that the time he has been in school he could have picked someone up, BUT she said this has gotten better since school so Im' assuming this was going on beforehand.

Calimama replied:
Honestly.. how do you know? Have you talked to his teacher? Is there a chance that he's watching someone or even possibly BEING bullied at school so he brings it home? A month may not seem that long but if he's there everyday (minus weekends) I could see a month being enough time to pick something like that up..

MoM-oF-3-MoNsTeRs replied:



I know he didn't learn it at school because he's been doing it for quite awhile now......at least a year. I'm sure that now that he is in school he is probably exposed to seeing other kids bullying or even being bullied, but it is something he learned long before school started. He has always been home with me since birth. He's never been to daycare. So it's not something he would have learned there either.

redchief replied:
Bullying isn't usually learned from parents or in the home. It's usually learned through experience. It's quite possible that there is more to his behavior than you're seeing in your home, but it's also as possible that your son's current target is enough... for now. It's also possible, but unlikely, that he might be the victim of bullying. Being a bully becomes part of a personality, and people who are bullied generally don't go the other way.

Calimama replied: I have a question. How does the mom of the boy being bullied feel? No offense but if my child was being bullied for a year I would pull her from that day care.

MoM-oF-3-MoNsTeRs replied:


Obviously neither one of us are happy that this is going on. But the key isn't to pack up and run from the problem. We communicate about it and have been working together to find a solution. As I said before, we found a few different things that worked, but only temporarily. We even went so far as to give Brandon permission to hit my son back. He won't do it. Aside from the bullying, Brandon is very happy here. He is always excited to come here and his mom thinks I am doing an excellent job with him. He has been under my care for almost 5 years. A move to new daycare at this point would be very hard on him. We are like family to him. Right now the bullying isn't a problem because Brandon doesn't get here until 9:20pm and by then my kids are in bed asleep. Brandon leaves in the morning around the same time my kids go to school, so he's not even here during the day. As long as his mom stays on third shift it won't be a problem. They seem to like to bounce her around from 1st to 3rd. So I am wanting to try to get a handle on what's causing this so that if Brandon does come back on first shift, we won't have to deal with this.
Believe me, I am not happy AT ALL that my child is being a bully.

luvmykids replied: So if he's only there while your kids are sleeping, basically, when does the bullying go on? And I'm guessing he sleeps while at your house too, so does all of this go on for the short time they're awake and together in the mornings?

MoM-oF-3-MoNsTeRs replied:


Brandon was on first shift for the first 3 1/2 years I watched him. He then came onto third shift, and then briefly back to first. Now his mom is working third shift again and she thinks it is permanent this time. So right now with him being on 3rd, it's not a problem. It all initially started though when he was on first shift.

Anthony275 replied: so you're saying he dosent bully him anymore?

MoM-oF-3-MoNsTeRs replied:


Sorry I disappeared for awhile. I had to take my oldest to soccer practice.
Yes, I am saying he doesn't bully him anymore but I don't know if that is because Brandon is on third shift and he simply doesn't have the opportunity now, or if he just decided to stop. I'm hoping he isn't going to do it anymore. If he does continue, I am going to have to put my foot down hard. I'm not going to have my kids treating people that way. That's not how they were taught.

Anthony275 replied: well howcome you made this seem like a recent thing that needed to be tended to asap?

Calimama replied:
Maybe this will give him the little break he needs kwim? Hang in there, you sound like you're doing a good job!

mummy2girls replied:
She probably just wanted some ideas on how to deal with it if it should happen again when she goes back on the other shift

Boo&BugsMom replied:
My guess is that because he isn't around as much he doesn't feel threatend by him anymore. You know the ole saying "absence makes the heart grow fonder?". Kind of like that. Like I said...no different than a sibling rilvary (sp?) issue, IMO. Kids are in daycare sometimes up to 50 hours a week or more, sometimes it feels like they are our own because they are with us so often...like siblings. Hopefully the absence of the togetherness will resolve the issue. I know for Tanner it did. Now when friends come over he enjoy's the togetherness, unlike before when 55-60 hours out of the week, 10 1/2 hours out of each day or more, he was being bombarded in his own home by a bunch of kids. He just couldn't relax like other kids can in their homes...now he can. Good luck, and I hope it stays better.

MoM-oF-3-MoNsTeRs replied:

Because it very well may need to be tended to ASAP.
Brandons parents are getting a divorce. Brandon is having a very hard time with the changes that are going on at home. He is having behavior issues and insecurity issues. He doesn't want to be left alone with his dad, says he hates him, etc... Due to those issues, I have told his mom that she is more than welcome to leave Brandon here for several hours during the day so she can go home and get some sleep if it looks like he is going to have too hard of a time going to his dads every day while his mom sleeps. My son gets out of kindergarten at 11:30am. Brandon would more than likely still be here if his mom has to leave him here so she can get some sleep.
I'm just thinking ahead is all. Looking for ways to deal with it should it become a problem again. I just want all of the children to be happy.
I appreciate everyones advice.

Anthony275 replied: take away toys and discipline him if he acts up. hes old enough to understand that