what does this mean? - a list

ian'smommy wrote: DH made a list on the computer. I don't know if he did this purposely or not but he left it on the screen when he was finished his artwork for the night, so it was pretty much the first thing I saw. He had a list of 12 things to change about himself. Wouldn't seem so bad but a lot of the things he listed were never things I got mad at him about. Just things that I mentioned that I would PREFER he didn't do. I didn't jump all over him. barking orders. At the end of his list he typed in, "If you want Lisa to like you, you better change these things about yourself"
Now tell me, what was his purpose of making this list and leaving on the computer? To make sure I see it? To make me feel even worse? It couldn't be to remind himself to change those things could it? I mean..... a list? And if so, why not print it out and keep it from me and work on it without me knowing? Seeing this list on the computer screen really bothered me. I don't know if I'm overreacting to it or not, but I was upset about our fight all evening and this was the icing on the cake. I hate this... This is all becoming a daily thing now. I hate it.
He looked at me after our argument tonight and said, what DO you like about me? Seems like you don't like ANYTHING I do lately."

Will this never end? We can't do this ourself. That's becoming clear to me now. This weekend I am going to talk to someone. I want to do it alone first because if there is something I can do that I haven't thought of yet, I want to know. If the person suggests bringing him in too, then that's what we'll do. I can't go on this way....

MommyToAshley replied: Awee, sweetie, I am sorry you have hit such a rough spot in your relationship.

I would take it as though he left the list for you to see, but that could very well not be the case. Regardless, I am glad that you are talking to someone... I think that is the best thing for you and your family right now. I hope you can work things out. You're in my prayers and thoughts. Please keep us posted.

DVFlyer replied: I would definitely say he left it for you to see. Did you ask him about it? Did you express concern?

Given his comments you quoted, I would have to question why he would say such things? Do you tell him there are things you don't like about him?

If so, do you think he's being too sensitive about things you say?

Good for you trying to get this solved. I'm fairly certain a relationship counselor will want to see you both. They will need both sides of the story.

Not knowing what was on the list, (i.e. quit using drugs? or Dress nicer?), I can't imagine any man or woman having to make a "list" of things they need to change in order to make their SO happy. One shouldn't have to change so much for another.

mammag replied: I agree, he probably left it for you to see. It kind of sounds like he is feeling like you complain about him a lot and he was maybe trying to point that out to you?? I also agree that if you are going to see someone about the relationship, chances are they will want to see both of you. Is that something he would be willing to do? Perhaps you could make a list of things you do like about him and "accidentally" leave that up on the computer sceen for him to find. If you have gotten to a point where you are thinking "I can't take the way things are anymore" you may be, don't take this the wrong way (speaking from experience), picking at all the negative things at one time. If he has gotten used to you just putting up with the things he does it may be a lot all at one time and he could be feeling attacked. I believe that problems in a relationship are usually (not always) not one sided.

I think it would be good for you both to go in for help. Hugs!!!

gr33n3y3z replied: I think you both should make a list and talk about each item one by one
And if you start fighting while doing it then you both need outside help.
You may not like what he will say but bite your toungue bc I'm sure he will be doing the same as you.
jmo

Good Luck
I'm sure everything will work out

ian'smommy replied:
I talked to him this morning before he left for work. I feel a little better. But only a little. It turned into a little bit of an argument and then he left for work, no kiss, no nothing. I have NEVER said, "I don't like this about you." I just tell him that I'd like him to do something a little differently...
Anyway, it turns out that he DIDN'T leave it for me to see. He forgot to save it and close it he says. He realized it this morning when he says he went to add to the list and it wasn't there. I had closed it after printing it off. I put it on his bedside table. He says he wants to make me happy so he made the list for himself to remind himself what to do. I must be pretty anal if he has 12 things and he as going to add more. He disagreed about me being anal, but he said he does feel like I constantly pointing out the things that he doesn't do right. I told him it's not like I sit down and tick a whole bunch of things off a list at once. If something happens, I mention it. I do this because if I say nothing, he assumes all is ok and doesn't think to change the behavior. It's not all horrible stuff. Like one thing he listed was, "don't drape clothes over hamper".... He tends to just drape a pair of pants or shirt over the side. Sometimes several things and when I am doing laundry I don't know what to do with it. Just some things like that. I reminded him that I do not want to change his personality. Not at all. Just some of his bad habits. He picked a lot up from his mother and carried them over to our marriage. We had a long distance relationship before we got married so I didn't know the full impact of the things he picked up from her. We have been married for almost 6 years and now these things that I have been dealing with and letting go for so long are finally getting to me to the point that it probably does feel like it's all I ever do. When he argues/fights he tends to push the hurt buttons on purpose. He picked up that skill from his mother as well. He admitted that. Well, this morning before he left he told me that if I want to help him feel better about himself, to make a list of what I do love about him. Fine, I can do that. No problem, but then he threw in, "the real test would be if you can come up with more than 12 things." I got so upset. He acts of course like I'm overreacting. I said, I can do that for you, but you didn't have to say that next thing. He said, "your right, that was a stab and I shouldn't have done that." So in the meantime while he doesn't feel good about himself he is breaking me down as well with his jabs. He doesn't realize that he does it unless I totally break down into tears, or if I point it out. But anyway, at least I know he didn't leave the list up to throw it in my face. From what he says he genuinely wants them as reminders for himself. I asked him if he really thought I was being that anal. He said no. He said he is probably just screwing up a lot lately. I don't know. I still think that we need to talk to someone. We just can't talk about this kind of thing without hurting each other and fighting about it. So now I have a list to make. Even though it was a jab, he had a point. It WILL be hard to come up with more than 12 things I like. With everything that has been going on lately, I have been so unhappy. I love him, but i don't feel like I am IN LOVE right now. That bothers me. It's maybe just becuase of everything that's going on. I guess I should sit down, push away all the negative things and just think about why we got married in the first place. That's what I'll have to do because it is going to be tough while feeling like this.....

Boys r us replied: If you want my honest opinion, it sounds as if he's pouting(typical male reaction to even constructive critisism). The fact that he left it up and the fact that it contained the odd little piece about if you want lisa to like you...sort of over the top if it were meant for just his eyes!

ian'smommy replied:
I questioned him about that little added piece too... He didn't really have a straight answer for me about that. He just continued to say he wants to make me happy so made the list for a reminder. He didn't really adress the issue of that last bit. He insists he didn't purposely leave it up for me to see. I guess all I can do is believe him or he will think I am calling him a liar or something. That has happened before when I was still questioning a motive.

Anyway, I made my list of things I love about him. I had to do some thinking, but I came up with 16 different things. I will continue to think about it throughout the day. He won't be home from work until 9:30, so I have plenty of time. I think even though it was a job when he said it would be a test to see if I can come up with 12, I think he really believes there is more that I don't like than what I DO like. I'm glad I thought of more.

Actually, making the list of positive things helped to lift my spirits a little. Through all the bad that has been going on, his good points were getting buried...

redchief replied: Seems to me your guy has recognized some things in himself that he doesn't particularly like. He definitely wanted you to see it. I think the list is a good place to start, but I also think you need to examine your own conscience as well (see my post to your other related thread).

Perhaps you do need some help. Perhaps all you both need to do is start listening; not hearing, but really listening, to each other. Start with a list of things you dislike about yourself also, but take it one step further. Make a list of all the things you love about him and ask him to do the same for you. Sometimes out of that list can come more progress than working within the negative lists.

Good luck again. Remember, all relationships require work, and all people change. The object isn't to try not to change, but to work with your partner as both of you change and try to understand the changes that happen within you both.

ian'smommy replied: My list grew to 20 things I love about him.

I have been trying for awhile to do what you mentioned. Examining myself. If there are things I can do to help us out, I want to do it. I hate living this way. And I know it's getting bad when my 2 1/2 year old just has to look at me and asks me what's wrong... I'm doing a lot of soul searching about myself as well....

mysweetpeasWil&Wes replied:
I thought this too when I first read this, but I think you need to take his actions at face value and not even go there in terms of thinking it may just be an attention getter on his part. So he's pouting, I say let him, but really see that it could be his way of trying to communicate with you without a fight. You say you don't critisize him, but that's obviously what he's hearing. I'm sorry to sound like I'm pointing a finger. I can completely relate. My DH says I'm coming down on him all the time when I think I'm only making a valid comment about his habits. He makes it sound more extreme than it is. And sometimes I just want to shout "suck it up you big baby!" But I realize that I have to just listen and put myself in his shoes. It's not comfortable being told your habits suck. So I'm learning too to try and just let things roll a little more. Bad habits and all.

Good for you for making a positive list about why you love your DH. I say you should definitely show it to him when he gets home.

DVFlyer replied: Consciously or subconsciously, he left that list out for you to see because it was something that bothered him.

A lot of great advice here. I'm glad you're focusing on the positive now instead of the negative. With your criticism and his jabs, you both need to realize that this is a power/ control struggle. Once you both submit, you will be much happier.

Re: Lists- Lists are good to a point, but too many times, you run into the "my list is bigger than yours" routine. It takes VERY mature and honest (about themselves) adults to compare lists. Not an easy thing to do for sure. No one likes to hear what someone doesn't like about them. Tread lightly.

Re: Soul searching- Good job! Many of the times we critique others, it's because we see part of ourselves in them.

Re: Growing list- How about now reducing the "don't like" list. That might make an even bigger impact. Are the things on the list really important enough to be on a list?

DVFlyer replied:
I only pout when I don't get my way

ian'smommy replied:
I definitely don't want to start a contest on whose list is larger. I had thought about that too in fact. But I thought I'd do this one lists of things I loved about him becuase he came right out and asked for one. If it will make him feel better (I hope) I was willin to do that. I will not be asking the same thing of him because I don't want to risk the contest thing.

A&A'smommy replied: I think all couples go through similar things my dh has said similar things. When he said that I knew that I must have been being overly critcal so I chnaged my attitude and guess what he did too... I cant go into to much right now because I'm typing one handed ((((((big hugs)))) I hope things get better for you guys!!!