phone call was not good (long) - help

boyohboyohboy wrote: well, its sad to say my conversation with the teacher wasnt good.
she started with saying that acedemically he is doing great. she said she is pleased with his reading, math and writing.
she said other then that its worse.
1) she said that he is in trouble for turning around and sticking his tongue out at someone on the bus.
2) she said that he pinched another kid in the class.
3) she said she heard him say, "I am going to slam you" while looking down at the paper on his desk. when she asked him who he was talking to he said his paper, and on the back of his paper he had written, "jack you are a stupid friend." then she said that she had a talk with him about only saying nice things, not mean things...
4) she said his desk area is messy still and he wont keep it clean, there is always something on the floor.
5) she said that he stole lunch money from another student.
6) he is still talking when he should be listening.

there might have been more but honestly at this point even I was starting to shut down.

I listened to her go on and on, about how bad she feels my son is, she refers to it that way, "he is bad" is what she says.

at the end of what she had to say, she says, well honestly in a class of 24 he gets lost, and he takes advantage of it, and tries to wait for times he can do what he wants to, and in a class this size its easy for that to happen.

so I took that opportunity to say, well in your experience, would he do better in a smaller class, and she said yes. (this of course was her out for getting him moved).

so in his defense, the bus things in my opinion is so stupid. I mean he is 6yrs old, kids stick their tongue out. I also said to her I am not sure if you are aware of what goes on in that bus, but I have called the owner twice now, and the cops at how ridiculous that bus is. she said she was not aware.

she had no idea what the pinching thing was about she couldnt remember, so I said to her we would absolultly tell him its wrong to ever put your hands on another student..(part of me would like to know what happened that caused him to behave that way)

also the money thing..apparently this girl next to him at lunch set her money on the table between the two of them and he did pick it up..yes i agree this is stealing, but there certainly was something different in the way she said it.
i also said he would be punished for that.

I honestly just dont know what to do. he doesnt act like this at our house, or in church or any other group setting he is in.

pete thinks that he has no respect for her and he is showing that by not listening.

he feels that he needs to be spanked for the stealing, and the pinching of the other kid.
but pete works till midnight tonight so he would have to spank him tomorrow morning before school. i think thats to long a time from when the incident happened and when he gets spanked. he said he is an older child, and he has a memory he will know what its for. and the time span will let him sit and stew about what he did.
making the spanking more effective.
what do you think about that..
although i think the spanking isnt right in this case, i dont have an alternative punishment in mind.

I just dont know what to do. caleb is acting like a complete other child at school. his school work is all "A"'s. and he doesnt have really anything at home that means a lot to him that it would bother him if i took it away...

how much of this is normal boy behavior and how much is something that needs addressed. pete feels that the rest of what she said is stupid. he feels she needs to deal with the little things herself, and actually stop picking at him for the little stuff. and that the only thing he has issues with is the stealing and the pinching...

i agree with that much.

we arent doing anything yet, as he is at work and we are trying to look like a united front as well as united with this crappy teacher..
any ideas?

booey2 replied: Hi, I am coming out of the shadows to offer you a ray of hope. Thomas is now 6 and a half nad I could have written your entire post about him and this first month at school. I believe that boys, especially boys in an all boy family tend to play a lot rougher then those with families of girls and boys. They also tend to be a rowdier bunch. We are dealing with a great teacher, thankfully, however we have a complete idiot for a Vice Principal. (sorry to thread hijack).

As far as the spanking, I believe a family has to do what a family needs to do. We were spanked as kids and I believe I turned out pretty good.

As a last resort and for your sanity and Caleb I would strongly think about moving him, it may be he just doesn't fit in with the class. We were going to push to move Thomas to a non-split class but his grade 1 teacher insisted he would be better off with his current teacher so we are taking it one day at a time.

Hang in there he will get better at behaving in class, sometimes I think the teachers just expect too much from our little ones these days. Come on, at 6 they are still really young and are learning how to socialize.

I am around if you need any more hugs or help, best bet is to pm me.

PrairieMom replied: really, a 6 year old is "bad " for keeping a messy desk ? how big of a control freak is this teacher? how big of a mess can it be? I mean, okay, if it won't close, and stuff spills out onto the floor that is one thing, but just regular mess? perhaps she would have more time to have control over her class if she wasn't wasting her time being concerned over such stupid stuff.
As far as the stealing $ thing, I think you really need to look at his intent. did he pick the $ up just because it was there? was he just going to hold the $ for that girl so no one else would steal it? did he deny taking it then they found it on him? Personally I would give him the benefit of the doubt, since the person you are getting your info from is obviously against him.
I would yank him out of that class. Its going to be a LOOOOOOOONG year fighting that teacher over every little thing. its Just October and you are already this far into it. can you imagine how bad it will be by Easter?

A&A'smommy replied: I feel so bad for him yeah I agree he should never pinch but the money thing IMO is stupid he saw it and didn't know whos it was maybe he was just curious about it I would talk to him about picking up another students money and before he picks it up he needs to tell him teacher that its there so he doesn't get accused of stealing again I wouldn't wait that long to spank yeah he might remember but then again I think thats TOO much to wait that long he is still pretty young!! I think if I were you I would stick one of those spy cams on him or his backpack or even sneak in during lunch because it seems like something really fishy is going on to me honestly she sounds NUTS!!

lovemy2 replied: I have to agree that this teacher is really just not into dealing with an active boy - Olivia is an active GIRL and her teacher thinks I overreact she really sees the two things that happened at the beginning of this year with Olivia - one being chit chatting and the other being her looking like she was going to bite another girl - which turned out to be Olivia and the other girl messing around and the teacher just happening to turn around at the moment it appeared Olivia was going to bite her and sending her to the VP office - who also determined it was kids being kids and yes she was a little out of hand and rowdy but had no intent to hurt anyone - ok so my point of all that is that I agree with your DH - there should be punishment for the pinching and potential stealing - but get his version first - I am not sure that I would spank for that TOMORROW - and that is in no way a judgment about you even spanking - I would discuss it with him - tell him the things the teachers is telling you and see what HE says....granted he is six and the stories aren't always well put together but you know your child and you can read between the lines....

And yes I would push for a change for him - I also think he has probably "bought out" of the program in that class and is maybe pushing the limits hard now hoping that someone will hear his cry for help and get him the heck out of there...if it continues in another classroom then you know you have to take the next step in dealing with Caleb himself.......

Hang in there Stacy - you are doing a great job

my2monkeyboys replied: I agree with all of the above - if he's not acting out like this elsewhere, then I'd look into what is REALLY happening, getting his side of things, then going from there. Sometimes teachers (or any other adult) just decide they don't like a kid and there's no real way to make it work out.
I would get his stories about everything, decide what he actually did wrong in those cases and punish him then. Whether you choose to wait until tomorrow or not is up to you. We have spanked Will up to an hour or 2 after the offense and he absolutely understood, but after sleeping and all it may make it a little tougher. Maybe try a little different punishment like taking away TV/video game time tonight and tomorrow... I don't know...
Regardless of how you choose to punish him, though, I'd be sure to listen to him first so you'll get a better idea of what's really going on.
Hope this helps!

Maddie&EthansMom replied: She should not be a teacher. I'm appalled that she is calling your child "bad."

He definitely needs to switch classes.

boyohboyohboy replied: so I sat and talked to caleb much later tonight. I wanted to wait until the other kids I watch left. Lexi is to nosey. I think waiting made him really nervous. and I also have a good chance to settle down.
well finally when we talked he told me that, dayton, had went to buy snack and it looked good and he had change left over..he asked dayton if he could have it, and dayton said yes, and he then went and got a snack...well then daytons friend said you didnt have money how did you get that? and he went and told the teacher caleb stole it..
caleb said he lied to the teacher because she scared him..well after all he has been thru is it any wonder?
he was afraid to tell the truth so he lied. she never asked dayton if he gave caleb the money.
she told him he was bad..
he was cleaning up his room and came to me crying tonight, hitting himself in the head..he said "why am I so bad?"
I told him he is not BAD, he is making bad or wrong choices...but he isnt bad.
I am so sick of her saying that to him. I made him repeat that several times..
I told him that it was the lying that made this so bad. He has to tell the truth..that we are behnd him if he tells the truth.
He also said he didnt pinch the kid, what happened was this same kid, one of the twins jumped line in front of him and he want to push him back and the kid ran to the teacher and said caleb pinched him..she never asked what was going on with the two of them..and the nasty note he wrote that said Jack is stupid and a bad friend, was because Jake is the twin that keeps telling on him.

so caleb had his toys taken away he just got as punishment for lying..we told him the lying is what he did wrong..but he will not be spanked. and he isnt in any further trouble.
pete and I are calling the principle and demanding a meeting asap. we are not waiting out the 6 weeks time period.

I feel so bad for him. he is in such a bad situation. I dont know what to do. I am not sure if moving him is the answer..the other schools have bad grades for reading and math, and also a high high spanish speaking ratio of kids....

cameragirl21 replied: Idk, Stacy, I think a teacher telling a six year old boy he is "bad" all the time qualifies as verbal abuse and I would report her to the school board, that is unacceptable.
And sorry but the whole, "jake you are a stupid friend" had me lol, seriously, it's just typical kids' stuff. I remember when I was in 3rd grade, my friend Francine and I wrote that this other girl in our class who made us mad poops her pants. I mean, kids do those things, it's nothing to get all worked up about.
Idk if I'd punish him, personally because he already seems to have a complex about being bad and he may not understand what the punishment is for. Obviously, he's your son and you should do whatever you think is right but if he were mind I'd probably not punish him but just talk to him about the importance of always telling the truth.
I'd also tell the teacher that if she calls my child "bad" just once more then I'm going to not only report her to the school board but also I'll go to the local media and let them make her a local celebrity teacher from hell.

boyohboyohboy replied:
I just dont know how a teacher like this gets to teach for so many years?

I am going to speak to the principle in front of her is my plan..I do plan to tell her she needs to reword her speech, and she isnt to tell him he is bad anymore.
also I am going to demand she not be allowed to punish him unless she sees him do something wrong.
my husband is reading a book right now about raising stubborn children a lou dobbs book i think...and it says that kids tend to rebel like this if they have no respect for the adult..and it certainly wouldnt surprise me if that is the case, I mean she is basically nothing but a large older bully.

We call this stuff domestic abuse if a man does it to a woman, yelling in her face, calling her names, putting her down...
I dont see how its any different for a child..as a matter of fact I find it worse.

if the principle even remotely defends her, we are asking for immediate removal of him from her class if he refuses we will be at the school board so fast...

Calimama replied:
My heart just broke for him reading that!!!!!

He needs a smaller class size, and a more patient teacher. I hope he's able to change to a class that's a better fit for him.

Nina J replied: It seems like Caleb is starting to believe he is bad. Which he isn't. But having it constantly told to him by an adult isn't doing him any good. Make sure you tell the principal this, and his teacher. She needs to know what she is doing is causing a young boy emotional stress.

This teacher needs to learn there are 2 sides to every story. How can she believe that Caleb stole, when the person he supposedly stole off never went and told her? Shouldn't she have asked Dayton? It seems ridiculous, it's like she will believe anything without the full story.

She must be intimidating for Caleb if he will lie to her rather than tell the truth. Seems like he is so used to being punished by her that it is the easier option for him than trying to explain himself and probably being second guessed by her. Poor kid

A&A'smommy replied: OH Stacey honey I have NO idea how you are holding yourself together I mean really this is making ME angry like to the point where I just hit my desk!!!

boyohboyohboy replied: I honestly do feel better about it then I did. First we made sure tonight that caleb knows he is not bad, and that we love him so much. my dh called him from work tonight and told him there is nothing more important to us then him, and said if caleb wanted him to come home right now he would and caleb said no he was ok.

dh has also laid out a plan for me for a conversation that is going to take place with the principle in the fact that we are not going to tolerate our son being belittled, and beaten down. that if she doesnt show some respect asap then we expect a transfer. we also expect that she is going to step up or get out of the way.
i fully expect her to stand her ground, i also expect the fact that we are riding her butt to cause even more friction for caleb, in that we do think the principle will just let him go.

caleb went to be feeling better, and when he said his prayers he didnt ask God to make him a better boy, he asked God to help the other kids not get into trouble in his class, and he asked God to help him stay out of trouble. so I think its sunk in thats its not him.

PrairieMom replied:
because noone ever says anything about it. Who knows how many other children this has happened with, or how many more if you just let it go. it is totally not cool for her to tell him he is bad.

my2monkeyboys replied: That is horrible - even when the kid is bad - REALLY bad, the teacher should never tell him/her that... all that does is compound the problem.
I hope you're able to get things worked out with his teacher one way or another. Maybe this all will help her see the error of her ways.

lovemy2 replied:
Its because teacher's get what's called Tenure - not sure if they do the same thing in PA but in NY after three years in a district they get tenure which protects them by a union and makes it virtually impossible to get rid of them - unions and things like this have their place but not so much in schools -

I honestly wouldn't wait to transfer him - I would go to the principal with the intent that she move him immediately - I highly doubt at this point that Caleb will regain any respect for her and I would be afraid of him losing his love of school and learning....

You and DH are doing an outstanding job - its so hard to wade through things like this and get to the bottom of them - especially before the damage is done.....hang in there Stacy - you are a great Mom and Caleb is a wonderful little boy

lisar replied:
I 100% agree with everything Tara said.

mckayleesmom replied: This teacher sounds like she is knit picking. She needs to learn to pick her battles and calling a child "bad" all the time is horrible. Like I tell Mckaylee..I don't think she is bad, but her behavior is and isn't acceptable. Just telling her that I believe that she can do good things instead of bad makes all the difference.

mysweetpeasWil&Wes replied: Stacy, what about asking if you could sit in his class for a couple hours one morning? I know kids act differently when their parent is around, but this way you can maybe observe for yourself. You know his cues best, so maybe you can see what sets him off, whether it be another kid, the teacher, how the teacher interacts with the kids, etc. And THEN I think you should have a PRIVATE conversations with the principal. This way you can say "well I saw for myself that the teacher isn't doing xyz...". Otherwise it's just hear-say IMO. I'm not doubting Caleb in any way. I'm sure he is telling you the truth, but I imagine the teacher will defend herself by playing the he-said-she-said game. Also, is their a child psychologist or someone with behavior experience to go and observe. Again, not saying that Caleb has issues, but it wouldn't hurt to get a professional opinion on whether he needs a more smaller, intimate class setting. My DH is dyslexic and always had a really difficult time in school. I bet these days they would have labeled him with ADHD and the whole nine yards because of how disruptive he was in class. Well now we all know that it was because he doesn't learn the same way other kids do. He needs more one-on one time, etc. Caleb has good grades, so there's a difference between he and my DH, but perhaps a small environment will help him succeed even more. GL.

Kirstenmumof3 replied: I could have written this same post about Spencer last year! I can't believe the teacher said he was "bad", he's not bad and it makes me so mad when teachers label kids that way. Maybe he's just having a hard time adjusting or maybe he is bored. Spencers teacher said that with Spencer is was peer presure and he was bored because he finished he would finish his work really quickly and have nothing else to do.

I would sit down and talk to him and find out why he is acting out. It seems like minor stuff.