need advice - gifted children (sorry this is so long)

3_call_me_mama wrote: I'm honestly looking for advice if anyone has any to offer. I'm not bragging about my child and his abilities, but you guys are the only widespread unbias group of people that i have to look for advice into.. I know we have all done the "my kid knows this and my kid knows that" and we all have very bright adn beautiful children. What I looking for is if anyone has any advice on gifted and talented childrne and resources for them. I am specifically looking for message boards or online parent resources. Cameron has always been advanced as far as milestones were concerned, and according to his pediatrician is well beyond a "typical" 2 year old. He was speaking 30+ words at 1 year and well over 200+ and in full sentences before his second birthday. He also could identify and name 15 colors and 9 shapes by then also. He can name several peers and friends and use their names in conversation. He also can identify about 10-15 basic sight words, sing almost any nursery rhyme type song. He counts to 25 in english and 10 in spanish adn on a daily basis uses almost 20 spanish words in conversation (basically speaking english and substituting in spanish words Ex " abre the door por favor mom, Gracias!" ) He does a bunch of other "non-typical " two year old things in the motor skills areas both fine and gross. (can find the one that doesn't belong adn x it out) (can circle the two that match out of a set of three) He can dribble a basketball while walking and shoot hoops at a six foot net, pedal a 2 wheel bike with training wheels, dress and undress himself and correctly put on his own shoes. According to his PED he is more at a level of a 5 1/2 year old with a mix of abilities ranging form 4 1/2 to 7 year. It has been suggested to us tha twe have him tested and look into gifted and talented programs for him.
What i need to know is does anyone have any experience with this?

Also his behavior is very frustrating and almost ADHD like (also a trait of giftedness according to what i've read.....
So if anyone has any advice or info or experience in this area.. HELP PLEASE!!

MommyToAshley replied: I don't know of any resources to offer, but did you ask his Ped for any recomendations? I am sure the Ped would be able to point you in the right direction. Or, even the school system might be able to give a point of reference to start.

WTG Conner, watch out Harvard!

3_call_me_mama replied: His doesn't go back to the ped again until nov for a 3 year check:( cause he was doing great at the 2 year, but we go to the same ped for kathleen, and she has a nine month check in june. so we are gonna check with him then, and the schools here have nothing to offer until they are 4 unless they are behind or at risk.

good suggestions though, thanks

gr33n3y3z replied: before the schools close how about asking them if they have any resources for you. I think that would be the best bet.

3_call_me_mama replied: I checked with the school in our town, until he is 4 they have no resources for him because he wasn't pemature, born with any defects, or risks and we are not in teh low economic group that would otherwise qualify him for at least testing and placement. I can take him to a center about an hour from here to have him tested and based on the results go from there looking for schools adn such. But according to a woman i spoke to the testing is expensive, and since we're not in poverty we'd have to pay out of pocket, adn ins. doesn't cover it.
But i just remembered that i have a friend at the EEE program that could probably get me some places to try adn maybe perform the test for us (I could perform the test myself but to purchase the test is expensive. But she has access to it b/c she is a special educator. So i'm gona try a google search for message boards and check with her for options. Thanks for the advice, it's a tough subject for me cause I don't want people to feel as though i am just fishing for compliments about my kid.... I apperciate the honesty and info. Thanks again!

lisar replied: Well I know that when they start school if they are gifted here where I am at. They have a day once a week for gifted children to where they go to another school, snd they get challenged. It is more above and beyond thier level but they are gifted so most if them get it. They have to be tested. I know there is a way to test your child's IQ. Ask you ped they will know who to recommend you to.

Lisa

amymom replied: I don't have much to offer you other than a story of what we did: Like you said most of the services are for those that are behind in some area. My daughter (who is now 8) was similar to Cameron, She was way ahead in lots of areas, especially the basketball along with Cameron (that made me laughShe played basketball with the 6th graders this year) .. She had a problem saying her l's and r's and so we had her tested by a preschool psychologist and at 3 yrs she tested over the 8 year old level and had a very high IQ. Because of her l's & r's she was eligible for Speech Therapy and the therapist used those times to work with Mary's extra abilities. We were fortunate in this regard. Mary is a child who likes to help others, we have her in a school district with small class sizes. She was very bored in Kindergarten after we chose NOT to move her ahead, we struggled a long time with the choice and again chose not to move her ahead in 1st grade and again this year. I must say that I am glad we made these choices. In someways a child needs to experiance it all in order to develop. Now, since she has a 14 year old brother she continually has companionship and 'things' that are ahead of her level and she is never left unchallenged. Her teachers in school are always giving her extra projects to do and she is the class 'specialist' in some areas, where the other kids ask her for help. AND I work with her nights on things that interest her.... Like animals and Math. She loves algebra believe it or not, she helps my 8th grader with his math homework. He loves that!!! My husband takes her to play hockey a few days a week. And is building a basketball court (yes a court he has high hopes) for her in the back yard.

Anyway, maybe there are ways you can challenge Cameron yourself. Get those books geared for Kindergarteners and have him do work sheets from them. We used a Phonics program to help Mary read at 3 yrs old. She loved the independance that gave her. And she reads at a jr or sr. high school level now. I haven't had her tested lately. But she reads everything and anything. Also for Cameron maybe some local sports programs at the Y , like swimming and basketball.

Most important for us though is to continue to let her be a kid. Good Luck!!

gr33n3y3z replied: Good luck
I hope you find something that can help him excel more

3_call_me_mama replied: Thank you for the support and suggestions. Anne, that's just what I was thinking. I have a phonics program that is for grade K-1 adn we are palying around with that, because he is very into learning things, also i got some of those preschool workbooks for him to do adn he LOVES them. It gives him some non active down time, but still focuses him. We haven't noticed any speech errors yet, but it is hard because he is still only 2 1/2 so it is hard to tell if they are normal for his age or if he is missing them. I am waiting fo rmy friend to call me back and go from there. athanks for the insight, it's nice to hear from someone that has been there done that.

ferocity302 replied: I know exactly what your going through. My son (now 14) was walking and talking at 8 months. At 3 years he came to me to tell me he wanted to be a Paelentologist (I can't even spell it and he could say it at 3!) so we decided to find anything on Dinosaurs we could possibly find. Even books that seemed a little out of his reach. He absorbed it all and it helped him when he got to school because he had already taken an interst in reading and learning.

I would see if Cameron has something that is a big interest and then find games, puzzles, books and anything else you can find to keep him occupied.

School may be a challenge when he gets older as he may get bored easy. My son is now noticing more and more ADD symptoms for himself. He has been tested and is a TAG = Talented and Gifted student.

I have never pushed him to take classes that are higher than his own grade but he is taking some so he feels more challenged. I agree that they need the social and the development of their own age.

Good luck if I come accross any good websites I'll let you know.

3_call_me_mama replied: Thank you so much! That mostly what we are doing fo rnow. we cannot get him tested until fall unless we want to pay out of pocket, teh shcool will cover it otherwise when he turns 3. Right now we are trying to enhace his interests, which seem to be animals, dinosaurs and trains. (So right on for age, but he is VERY in depth with them using the proper names and such.. and i asked him what a paleontologist was and he said "oh, mom your so silly, you know they study dinosaurs" I was like ?! So i guess he's been doign some reading wiht daddy ! Anywya thanks again. I appreciate any info you do come across

ammommy replied: It sounds like you are doing the right things, but do you have a preschool associated with a prep school or Montessori school in your area? They may also have good resources to tap, especially the Montessori school.

3_call_me_mama replied:
There is one montessori school in our county. but it is really expensive adn right now it's not something we can swing, it's ove $500 a month. We were planning to put him in this school but that was before i closed the center adn I had an income enough to pay that adn my other bils, but now with the daycare at home I'm barely making the van payment never mind all teh extra bills i still have left from teh daycare center.

Good idea though

A&A'smommy replied: Hey girl I know I'm not qualified to give any advice BUT I was overheard the lady who takes care of gifted and challenged (slower) children she tests them, evaluates them and does all that stuff.... ANYWAayy I heard her talking to a mother about her 4 year old now the 4 year old can go to the "fabulous four" classes but here they don't usually let them skip classed or taked special classes until like 4th grade because of their maturity levels. Then she said "just let them be a kid, ecourage him and be proud of him but let him be a kid" for now anyway. I ammediatly thought of you when I heard her talking so I listened to the WHOLE conversation MY opinion whatever "fun" educational thing you can find for him go for it what can it hurt!! Oh yeah this four year old could read WAAAYYY above his age level

ammommy replied:
Oh, I didn't mean to enroll him, I meant to check with the counselor or principal or what ever they have and see if there are groups, websites, etc that they can recommend for support and guidance.

noah'sark replied: Newbie here but I just had to chime in. I've been on lurk mode but this is a topic that is a sore spot with me. I taught elementary school for a number of years and also have my Masters in Education (Administration).

From the characteristics that you listed of your son, they seem very typical for his target age group. (please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that your son is typical -just his abilities). I'm not sure if your ped. actually recommended him for some kind of gifted testing or just remarked that he seemed advanced for his age. Our ped. tells us that all the time, too, but I know that it's just too early to tell. And in terms of the advancement in gross motor skills, I'm a bit surprised that your ped. put them at a 5 year old level. I also teach a 2-3 year old preschool Sunday School and, all except for one that was born very premature, they're all able to do those same things. They're an active bunch!

Children develop in different areas at different times. They may excel in language, maybe music, maybe athletic abilities. Because we see strength in one or two particular areas doesn't necessarily mean giftedness. Children do not develop the exact same ways at the exact same times. We may compare our child's math abilities with another child the same age (or older) and see that they are advanced. That could just be developmental. For example, studies indicate that children who can read upon entering kindergarten versus children that can't -all level out by grade 3. Meaning that early strengths do not automatically mean liftetime giftedness.

The list of your child's language accomplishments seem pretty on target with his age group. My son is also raised in a bilingual household and is very verbal. He knew at least 30 words at age one (but probably more around 60 if you include both languages), at age 2 his vocabulary just exploded, he could count, knew all his colors, knew all of his shapes, could work out puzzles etc. My son has been putting his shoes on, pedaling a bike with training wheels and insists on dressing himself for awhile now. He'll be three in just a couple of weeks and he hasn't stopped amazing us with the things that he knows. Of course, to US, he's as brilliant as they come.

Do I care, at age 2, if he's "gifted"? No. I know that his day to day experiences are very enriching. He learns knew things everyday and most importantly, is learning to exist in the world around him and interacting with people. We, as parents, just have to take a step back. What's the point of going through giftedness testing at such an early age? Do we have to test our child to know that he/she is gifted? If we KNOW it, then we should provide appropriate activities.

Most giftedness testing is done somewhere around the 2nd grade. That's when the scores are MOST accurate. There really is no reason to test a 2-4 year old and the scores are unreliable. (The testing process and ensuing results are not as accurate when testing such a young child because of language ability and other age-related factors). That's why most states test at grade 2. They're able to take the test independently and read/comprehend the simple instructions.

As a teacher, I've just seen it too many times.So many parents rush to put that "gifted" stamp on their child as they just don't realize that children develop in different areas at different times. They make the mistake of pumping their child with too much academic work that they're burned out by 1st grade.

My advice to you is just to let him pursue his own interests. You don't need to do any testing for that. Take him to the library and let him choose his own books. Give him lots of free play time at home to read, write, play, pretend thus expanding his own mind, with his own interest, at his own pace. Talk to him a lot. Engage him in conversation.

Hope this helps! Just trying to give you another perspective.

3_call_me_mama replied: First of all thank you for making me feel like S@$@##.
Let me clarify a few things for you.
1. I do NOT want a GIFTED stamp but on my child- that is not what I was asking for. I was asking for resources to help me engage him in activities. He does not go to daycare and right now he is the only kid his age around.
2. I am NOT pushing him to burn him out before 1st grade (not pushing him at all actually) He asks about things, I tell him and show him. What do you wnat me to do say "no Cameron, you can't try to write your name cause they will have nothing to teach you in school!!"
3. Maybe all the other children where I live are just slow then because MOST of them cannot do 1/2 the things at 2 1/2 that he was doing at 18 months.
4. I am not looking for someone to critize me for wanting to find ways to engage him daily. Trying to find ideas so he isn't so bored. Our local library SUCKS, it has very little to offer to children. I'm not going to move so we have a better library so he can pick out books.

And maybe I ought to look for a new dr for him too, since mine lies to me and says that his abilities aren't typical when they are. Gee, I ran a daycare center and preschool for 2 years and when he was in the toddler room there (i have since closed it so he no longer goes to daycare) he was bored out of his mind and at the suggestion of his DR and the toddler and preschool teachers he was moved to the preschool before age 2. All becasu ehe was an average 2 year old...

you know what.. I'm not even gonna finish this post. Because I'm upset and it;s not worth my energy to even bother wasting time with it.

Thak you to all of you that did offer help and resources, we have persued them and he's really enjoyed the activities that you offered and suggested. Guess I'll PM you guys next tiem instead of asking in public forum, as I'd rather not feel like I'm trying to make my kid into soomething he's not. Sorry to bother you with it.

amymom replied: before chiming in next time would be helpful!!!

ammommy replied: I"m glad some of the suggestions were helpful. Ignore Noah's Ark---we know you aren't a pushy mom, just a mom trying to help her son excel at what he wants to do.

jcc64 replied: OK, I'm gonna try and step lightly here. I've been a mom long enough to know that "objective" analysis of our children's abilities, gifts, etc, and outside interpretation of said analysis is a very, very touchy area. So, I will reserve any comments about the child/mom in question here, and will instead speak in GENERAL terms.
I think noah's ark was drawing upon her experiences in the field of education, and truth be told, most of what she said mirrors my own experiences. My oldest (now entering 8th grade) was perpetually "unchallenged" in his younger elementary years, and I was chronically frustrated at the school system's inability or unwillingness to accomodate his needs. He was eventually placed in a "gifted" program in 3rd grade, and remained in one for the rest of his time in that school. But what I failed to realize was that while he was far ahead academically, he still had much to learn socially, which, to me, is the real work of elementary school. Included in that learning process was how to behave and be patient in a large group of students of varying abilities. A resourceful teacher will learn how to harness that intelligence and utilize it to the individual student's as well as the class' best advantage. Sometimes, Alec's teachers would have him "tutor" other students, or go into the classrooms of younger students to assist with reading/math. There is a wealth of benefits to all involved in such an arrangement. The point is, even if your child has mastered the academic requirements, he is still very much a work in progress socially. We all are. And I do believe a very common mistake that parents make in the rush to position their children as "extraordinary" is to forget the basic lessons we all need to learn on the playground. Some of the brightest children are the very ones who need the most practice with social skills.
My advice to you is to enrich your child on your own for the time being. Plan your family vacations around things that interest your child. Find a better library. Plan learning activities and games. Use the internet, educational software, whatever it takes. But I guarantee that what your child will get the most from your enrichment sessions will be special one on one time with mommy. Which he'll never get from a school system anyway.
And honestly, I really don't think noah's ark intended to insult your admirable quest to enrich your child. She's simply an objective voice out in cyberspace, and if your school system is anything like mine, it won't be the last time you hear something like that. It's great that you want to advocate for your child, it really is, but I think she's simply telling you to take a breath, take your time, and let your kid just be a kid for awhile. Not really such bad advice, imo.

Josie83 replied: You must be so proud of cameron! What an awesome kid. i don't have any advice to add but it seems to me as though Anne gave you some great tips. What a smarty pants you have!! he can come and play with cassie, she's a clever clogs to xx

noah'sark replied:

To the OP, I'm very, very sorry that you were offended with my post. It was not my intention WHATSOEVER to criticize your parenting. What I WAS doing was answering the question that you posed -"does anyone have any experience with this?". I *thought* that that's what I was doing. As a teacher and licensed administrator I've experienced the gammut of these types of educational questions. I thought I was directly addressing the question that you put forth.

When I say that some parents rush to put that 'gifted stamp' on their child I was not saying that YOU were doing that. I was sharing my past experiences of things I have seen when it comes to gifted education awareness. Some parents just take things to the extreme. That's the side of this that I was trying to share with you. The jist of my post (or the intention at least) was to say, "Hey, just take a step back. He's only 2 and you'll have plenty of time to pursue gifted resources." Children at age 2 need interaction and encouragement to pursue their interests. As long as they receive those things, they (at any developmental level) will thrive.

I don't know that my post was accusatory or deragatory in anyway but seeing how you reacted to it -maybe I could have been more judicious in my choice of words? Again, it was not my intention to criticize your parenting.

*thanks* for some of the kind words from others. Is it only okay to completely agree with everything that everyone else says? Are opposing points of view not appreciated? I think i'll be just as happy going back to my lurkdom!

Thanks to jcc64, I think you understood what I was trying to say...