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Your help needed!! - We're gonna get kicked out of YMCA....


victoire2002 wrote: I take Aidan to our local YMCA about 3X a week so mommy can do a spin class! They have a nursery there, and Aidan has been fine there until about a week ago. Now he cries when I leave him, but EVEN WORSE, today he BIT and SCRATCHED two other children!! They asked us to leave today, and told me that if he does it 2 more times, we will have to leave the nursery for 2 months.

Your tips would be appreciated! Those precious moments at the gym are so few and far between, that I can't afford mentally to leave it behind...... sad.gif

Aidan's been up to biting and scratching for about 3 months now..... he has done it several times to playgroup members, and it's a concern. I have tried to ignore it, re-direct his attention, and I even (out of desperation) tried to bite him back to show it hurts. I know he's doing it because he's frsutrated and cannot communicate, but has anyone learned any techniques that actually work?????

Thanks to all in advance for responses,

Vicki
Aidan 8/12/02

jen replied: Sorry I don't have any advice ((((((((((HUGS)))))))))) but I did have a horse bite me when I was little and I bit it back and I don't remember that particular horse ever trying to bite again but I think I just scared the snot out of him!!!

Maybe you could bring a friend with you a couple of times to watch him in the nursery and be right there to redirect him, maybe they aren't catching him do it in time. Just a thought, sorry I am not too "qualified"!!

kimberley replied: sad.gif oh no. sorry to hear that. James had the same violent frustration and used to slap and kick people all the time. he moved up to biting and i was going nuts. eventually he grew out of it. i know that is not what you wanted to hear but like you, nothing we tried worked for him. that is why i have already started to "teach" Jade some signs like for milk, diaper, up etc. hopefully we can avoid this stage with her. just keep explaining to him that it hurts other people when he does things like that and hope it gets through. i am sorry i don't have any real advice just lots of (((((hugs))))))) and hope things get better soon.

jcc64 replied: I know it's very difficult when your child exhibits apparently anti-social behavior not to overreact. But the absolute worst thing you could do is to bite him back. You should never discipline out of "desperation". Discipline is to teach, not to punish. What do you think your child is learning when you bite him? It would help if you could try to see things from his perspective. What do you suppose he's feeling at the moment when he bites/hits,etc? The trick is to teach him what are more appropriate ways to express his frustration, which is not the same as telling him he doesn't have the right to BE frustrated. At his age, there's only so much he can understand, but it's an ongoing learning process, and it has to start somewhere. Remove him from the situation until he can calm down. Explain to him that hitting/scratching is bad and it hurts in language that he can understand. One sentence max. And you might want to explore the philosophy of the childcare room of the Y you are attending. It's possible that your child is feeling anxious there b/c the sitters have a preconceived notion of him as "out of control" and are treating him as such. Or maybe there's just too much going on there for him, too much stimulation, and he's feeling overwhelmed. Some kids get all revved up and just can't control their impulses when confronted with too much chaos. Perhaps he would do better in a smaller group. I know your personal time is important to you, but maybe this isn't the right situation for Aidan just yet.

Maddie&EthansMom replied:

ITA! Very well said! thumb.gif I just know from my own experience with Maddie when she was hitting, yelling, kicking, scratching, throwing tantrums that the most effective way to 'discipline' her was to get on her level and find out what was bothering her. Was it b/c I wasn't spending enough time with her? Was I ignoring a need? There is a definite reason Aidan is acting this way. He isn't a bad child and he isn't out of control. He is bothered by something. Like stated above, maybe this isn't the right situation for him just yet. Biting him back, hitting him back (at his age) would only teach him that it is okay to vent your frustrations in that way.

I hope you are able to continue going to the gym and you are able to nip this in the bud, in the meantime just remember it is only a phase and it will pass. wink.gif

victoire2002 replied: Just to clarify, I didn't bite him to teach him how to be aggressive. I simply listened to several mothers who insisted that this worked for them. After talking to physicians and nurses and several mothers, I gave it a try ONCE. Obviously it didn't work.


As far as pedantic rhetoric about getting down to his level, I have to say that your messages are insulting and smug. I worked very hard in the corporate world for many years to have the income to stay home with my child and don't appreciate the insinuation that I somehow have not addressed a psychological need for my child. I am with him 24/7, with very little relief. Remember, a happy mother = a happy child before you douse out advice like that.

Vicki

Maddie&EthansMom replied: Vicki-
I am truly sorry I offended you. I in no way meant it to be insulting on your part. I think you are a wonderful mom. I was simply addressing what worked in my own experience with Maddie. I thought you needed advice maybe on some different ways to approach the situation. I don't think what you did was wrong. I know it works for a lot of people and seems to be effective. I was just offering some other options if you will, to try to get him to stop biting. Gosh, I don't know what to say. I never meant to insult your parenting skills. I am so sorry it was taken that way. Maybe I should have worded it different. sad.gif


((((HUGS))))

Guest_guest replied: Well I dont want to add to any debate but I have heard from many people that biting them back does work, maybe not in all cases and it might not be for you, but whats wrong with trying something different to teach that biting hurts? I honstly dont think she was in any way biting ot teach aggresion or so called disapline. If disapline is to teach then teaching that biting hurts and is wrong then who are you to tell her never to do that. I know parents who spank there kids while its not for me, I certanly am not going to tell them not to do what works for them! Again I not saying you should not have your opinion but dont tell her she is wrong for trying something.

I am sorry if I offend anyone I just dont like people to be smug and think they can push on others what they believe.

As far as the help you asked for I am not sure what to tell you. Are you able to go to they gym while someone other than the care there. I know how important time for your self is and you need it, as we all need that space every now and then. If you dont have some one to watch him then I would check to see what actually goes on in there and see whay he mgiht be that way....how do they treat him, how is he with others...ect. I wish I could offer more but I must go.

PS I am sorry if I offend anyone.....I am just voicing MY OPINION!

Maddie&EthansMom replied: I think we are all just trying to give our honest opinions here from our own personal experiences. I truly did not mean to be hurtful. I don't think what she did is wrong...it just may not be too effective at his age. (and she stated herself that it was not effective). I apologized for offending her and I'm not offended by anything you said. She asked for advice and I gave my opinion as everyone else did. I am in no way trying to push anything on her...I was simply stating what worked for me. I thought that was what she wanted to know. I didn't mean to make it sound like she wasn't offering her child the attention he needed, but maybe the sitters weren't and that is why he is behaving in that way towards them and the other children. unsure.gif Again I am sorry for causing such an uproar. I won't say anymore.

Guest_guest replied:
actualy it was not you I was refering to.....guess I should have made that clear. Sorry

I have more to say but I will leave it alone


ediep replied: Vicki
I wish I could offer some advice, but Jason bites occasionally too. Yesterday he was tired and we were with a friend at a diner for lunch and Jason grabbed my shirt sleeve, pulled it to him, and bit my arm!!!! ohmy.gif ohmy.gif I think he was trying to say "get me out of here and home to my crib!!" because he was asleep two seconds after we got into the car!!

The only thing that I can say is maybe Aidan is tired (I don't know, sorry)????? dunno.gif dunno.gif grouphug.gif grouphug.gif

victoire2002 replied:
Not to worry Aimee, I didn't think your post was offensive. It was the tone of another one I found to be inappropriate, given the circumstances. It's easy to read posts and to misunderstand the intention behind them, so I rest my case here.

victoire2002 replied:
Yes, it's quite possible he was tired. It was 9:00a when I dropped him off, and he cried when I dropped him off-- they have a viewing window, so I stayed and watched to see if he would calm down. He calmed himself down, so I thought everything was hunky-dory. Guess NOT!!!

I truly think he does it when he's frustrated. In this case, another child took a toy from him, and he reached out, grabbed her face and bit her on the cheek! Then he tried to take a toy from someone else, and reached out and scratched that child's face.

We're working through it. I have ordered more books off the internet re: development at this stage. Hopefully, with time, this will work itself out. (either that, or I will not be welcome at any playgroups again)

Thanks for the information,

Vicki

jcc64 replied: You know what. You asked for advice, you got it. If you interpreted it as insulting and smug, so be it. It was intended as an offer of help, given in the spirit of moms helping moms. Nowhere in my post did I suggest you are not meeting the emotional needs of your child. Perhaps you are projecting your own inner conflicts, perhaps not, i don't really care what you do. Every mainstream parenting book advises against biting or hitting a child as a means of discipline, and if you want to take offense at my opinion on this issue, we can agree to disagree. But in the future, maybe you shouldn't solicit opinions you're not prepared to hear.

victoire2002 replied: Thanks for all your kind words, Jeanne.
They really have helped, haven't they?

jcc64 replied: I'm not the one who turned this into a smackdown. But if you call me out on something, I'm gonna respond.


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