Weird problems with Corey advice please
jcc64 wrote: Corey is 2.4 years old now. She's frequently constipated, and totally stressed out about it. She cries and walks around saying "Poopy" for hours, sometimes days, before she finally pushes out a hard little turd. (sorry for tmi) I am on top of the kinds of things to do from a dietary standpoint, she eats lots of fruit, drinks lots of juice, etc. but I'm fairly certain this is an emotional problem. I think she's conflicted about toilet training, although we haven't even gotten involved with it yet. We have the pottys, she will occasionally sit on them with clothes on, but we absolutley avoid talking, asking, suggesting anything more b/c she clearly isn't ready for it yet. And yet, I think she also doesn't want to poop in a diaper either. Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place. In addition to this, she exhibits the same behavior when confronted with taking a bath or having a diaper change. She absolutely doesn't want to take a bath- she gets anxious before bathtime, and basically cries and can't get out fast enough. My girlfriend, who is an occupational therapist, believes she is "tactiley oversensitve"- that she is freaked out by different or unpleasant bodily sensations or fluctuations. I guess it makes sense, but I'm at a loss for how to remedy it. We've been trying to just be patient and reassuring, and hoping it will just pass, but maybe we should be doing something else? This is my 3rd kid, we passed through the potty stage with little fanfare with both boys. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
gr33n3y3z replied: Oh my sorry I dont know what to tell you except try putting her on the potty and maybe she will go there with less stress
Jamison'smama replied: Interesting--I can tell you that Jamison has a similar problem with her pooping--She will hold it for 3 or more days at times and then it is horrible and painful--she cries about having to go long before she goes--she runs and runs around the kitchen and eventually she'll go and it will be large and hard--so therefore painful. I wondered if it was because it was painful a couple of times and now she avoids going until she can't hold it. I never thought to associate it with potty teaching. SHe is not using the potty very often---only mentions it occationally. I do mention it when she is doing her "circling" thinking it may be easier on her body to sit on her chair.
Does the OT think it is a sensory integration disorder? My DH has a slight case, and I believe Jamison does also--she has a major texture issue with foods as does DH--also texture issues--seams on socks, tags etc. Can this all be related? Sensory integration disorder is in the anxiety family which runs through both sides of our families. Does Corey say the bathub hurts or do they think it just drives her nerves crazy? Any other texture related issues or just bodily functions?
Usually Sensory integration can be helped significantly by just a few visits to an OT--did your friend have any suggestions from a professional point of view?
Josie83 replied: Wow Jeanne I don't have any advice for you. I agree that it is probably psychological if she is getting plenty of roughage . . . can't realy offer you any help just Sorry xx
jem0622 replied: I think we all have some form of SID. The one thing I was told to do was mix mineral oil into yogurt or something like that daily...to soften thing up and keep it moving. You might really want to consider potty training if she doesn't like doing things in her diaper. She may poop train before pee train though. Sorry that she is having trouble! Maybe change things up so she isn't so upset at these times.
mom21kid2dogs replied: I kind got stuck on the "hard little turd" part of your post. I really don't recall my daughter having hard stools at that age~in fact~rather the contrary. Could she be getting too much fiber? Does she drink lots of water? Do you think there could be something in her little systtem that is making her stools hard? That would certainly account for her unwillingness to want to pass them if she's finding going poopy incomfortable. I'm all over tactle issues, but most kids with them seem to have issues more universally than not~ poor reaction to clothing, can't stand to be dirty, wet, refusing foods of weird textures, etc.
The bath thing sounded pretty developmentally typical to me. Olivia went through a phase at about that age where she loved water (swimming or playing in it) but HATED her bath. It lasted awhile and we just kept mixing it up at bathtime~new tub toy stuff like crayons and fun foam and, oddly, bathing her in the upstairs bathroom rather than the downstairs bath. Who knows why some things work, eh? We weren't "overbathers" at our house. Luckily, she had no hair until 3 so we could get away with once or twice a week with sponging in between. Now she's a bath "junkie"! She'd take 3 a day if I let her!
You might try her on the potty (Olivia pooped in the potty for a full year before she learned to pee in it~weird, I know ) to see if she's more comfortable that way but if her stool are hard that sounds more like it might be the real issue. Either way, hope she gets some relief soon! It sounds miserable, poor thing!!
kit_kats_mom replied: Gosh Jeanne. The only thing I could think of was dietary issues but since you have that covered I dunno. I have no experience or advice on any of Corey's problems but they sound awful for you and for her.
Big hugs to both of you.
Actually, I just thought of something. Does she have, or has she had in the past, any bad diaper rash or anything like that. The few times K's had rashes on her bum, she held her poops, fussed about diaper changes, wouldn't tell us when she had gone poop in her diaper and screamed in the bath and couldn't get out fast enough. Her behaviour often lasted a week or so past when the rash was gone.
jcc64 replied: Thanks everyone for your input. I do believe she is responding to a memory of a painful poopy, and is holding and delaying as long as she can to avoid the sensation again. I know next to nothing about sensory integration disorder. Can anyone elaborate? She exhibits no other distinctive behavior. She's socially adept, outgoing, seemingly bright and right on target in all the predictable ways. It's just those things I mentioned. But when she's freaked out, the whole world has to share in her misery, kwim? I have a mild anxiety disorder, could this possibly be just a toddler's manifestation of anxiety? I don't experience her as an especially anxious child, but who knows? As far my friend (the occupational therapist)- she suggested all kinds of tactile play- basically letting Corey get her hands dirty at every opportunity- making cookies, finger painting, play-do, etc. We've been doing that, and she likes it, surprisingly. I've made a dr's appt for Mon, maybe he'll have some insight- although in my experience, with things like this, moms like yourselves are light years ahead of the drs with good advice.
My2Beauties replied: Have you changed anything in her diet lately at all??? I noticed Hanna's was hard when we switched her from formula to cow's milk and she was screaming when she would poop, but now that her system is used to it it has subsided! I think you're doing best by asking a doctor, I have a friend whose daughter has IBS and she is only 4 years old. Often times she would have to poop and couldn't, she would be so constipated that she was giving her laxatives like candy, she had to go to all kinds of specialists!! It was awful for her and her child! Let me ask her a few questions via e-mail and when she gets back to me I will elaborate more, it may not have been IBS at all - I'm thoriwng that out there because I think that was something the doctor mentioned it may be! I'll be back later to post more!
My2Beauties replied: OK she got back with me rather quickly, it wasn't IBS I knew I was wrong on that one, here is her reply:
Shelby has a condition called "Chronic Constipation" It's where she held her bowel movements because she got constipated and cause her colon to enlarge. She had to be treated for over a year on a laxative. It sounds like this child has a constipation problem. The mom needs give the child a laxative or a suppository to clean her out. Then the best way to keep her child going is to change her diet. She needs to cut down on the dairy products (cheese, milk, ice cream, ect) Shelby was limited to 2 cups of milk a day. She usually had a cup in her cereal, then a cup with lunch, then dinner she had water or kool aid. The juice is a good idea. Apple juice is good because it's a good fiber source and it helps move the childs bowels. Fruits that are good are: Apples, Applesauce, Fig, Kiwi, grapes, and cantaloupe. Her child probably needs a diet with fiber as well. Some foods that work are: Cracklin Oat Bran Cereal, Shredded Wheat (or frosted), and cereal that has the word BRAN in it, Whole Wheat Bread (no white) we told Shelby it was chocolate bread and she did great with it. Peanut butter and peanuts are a good source of Fiber. Shelby has an allergy and they cause her to become impacted, she should use her own discretion. Beans are a great source of fiber (any type of brown bean) This does exclude Green Beans. Any type of green veg. Fresh Green Beans, Fresh Broccli (or frozen), Spinach, Lettuce,Cabbage (that's works wonders). Those are just some foods that help with keeping the child going. She can incorporate that into her childs diet. Here are a few ways my sitter incorporated these foods into Shelbys diet, but didn't take away the good stuff too.
Breakfast 2 pieces of french toast (using whole wheat bread) Sprinkle a little powdered sugar and a little syrup. 1 cup of milk or apple juice to drink
Lunch Beanieweenies (using hotdogs and pork or baked beans) 1 piece of bread or crackers (no sodium) 1 cup or milk or juice
Snack Fruit cup 1 bowl of applesauce
Dinner Anything Really
Shelby did well, because she still got the regular foods, but my sitter would incorporate one meal and a snack or 2 meals containg the food she needed. If this women feels really concerned then she might want to speak with her peditrician, but she needs to make sure that the childs doctor is well informed of this condition. I didn't and the docotor my child use to see, almost caused my child to need bowel surgery. Thanks to a great peditricain now, Shelby does well with going to bathroom, on her own with out a special diet or a laxative. We have to keep on her about going though. Her colon is still enlarged, but it is slowly shrinking back to normal. I hope this helps the lady in the forum.
mom21kid2dogs replied: Here is an excellent article that is very through in it's explanation of the issues. HTH, some! http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/fall97/sensory.htm
kimberley replied: i had similar constipation problems as a child and i don't believe it was dietary either since i lived on prune juice as far back as i can remember. what started my fear was my mother. she was militant about not leaving my room for any reason once bed time had come. i feared her, but the big problem was, night was the most common time for me to have the urge to go #2. i spent many agonizing nights crying in pain and would be so anxiety filled about how much it was going to hurt when it did come out, that i held it even longer. my parents eventually went to suppositories and that was a traumatic and humiliating experience... even at 5yo. baths did help but not a lot. i think if my mom had have reached out to me on an emotional level about it, things would have gotten better sooner. i know it is a lot more difficult with a 2yo, but have you tried asking her what she is afraid of? i don't really have any advice, just wanted to share my story. i hope you figure it out
DansMom replied: It's weird that Daniel and Corey can be behaving so similarly with opposite poop consistency. During my disease-shopping on the web yesterday, I did come upon something about "withholding" during potty training. It was suggested in what I read that the poop can start out as the right consistency, but by being held back for days the water content is reabsorbed into the body, and it hardens over time. This is obviously not the case with Daniel, but might be the case with Corey---it might all be a result of withholding, thus the normal dietary solutions aren't working. I don't know what would work to keep bowel movements happening daily except maybe laxatives or codliver oil (not sure I would be comfortable administering either of those to a 2 year old though---I don't know what's recommended for laxatives for children, and codliver might contain mercury). As far as bathtime goes, I'm not sure. Daniel is coming up with things to protest for no apparent reason than the chance to practice protesting something I suggest, and then he keeps the pattern going for quite a while---right now it's brushing teeth. Corey does seem more anxious than willful as you describe her at bathtime. It's so hard to know at this age whether it's a serious issue or a willpower experiment or a transitory anxiety.
If anything works for you as far as the withholding issue goes, pass it along. That's at least part of our problem (and I'll do the same)
Schnoogly replied: Also read the Out of Sync child. it describes SID, which Iain definitely has. He has similar issues about the potty--he is really, really interested in it but scared to death to use it, and had a very upsetting poop on floor incident recently. He freaks out at all diaper changes and goes through periods when he hates and is terrified of baths.
We usually can figure out the bath problem--usually it happens when he gets water on his face (which he hates) or the water gets cold or is too warm, and then it takes him MONTHS to get used to it again. Drives me batty. And don't get me started about his clothing sensibilities. Argh.
It sounds like it's definitely that retention problem though--vicious cycle of holding it in once and having a painful poop, then it keeps happening because she fears it. Do they have child stool softeners? I would say that instead of laxitives.
loveydad replied: I don't know what to say just big hugs to you guys!
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