Those Duggars are at it again!

Crystalina wrote: Baby #18 is baking.

luvmykids replied: Good for them

AlexsPajamaMama replied: congrats to the Duggars!

MommyToAshley replied: Congrats to the family. Wishing her a happy and healthy 9 months!



Wow, that is a lot of clicking to put 18 baby icons on the thread ... I can't imagine having 18 children.

coasterqueen replied: Congrats!

That woman has major SUPER POWERS imo. I can barely handle 2 let alone anywhere near 18.

Crystalina replied:
The family was on the today show this morning (for Mothers Day) and she surprised the kids by telling them. She found out Monday night. Her oldest son was in shock and finally looked at her and said, "Well Baby Jennifer is 9 months old so I guess your about due."

A&A'smommy replied:
thats funny

well congratulations to them all I have to say is I wouldn't do it 18 times geez

luvbug00 replied: ahh a reminder of what my mother always said
"if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all".............

too bad i rarely listened. but i'm gonna try
so all i will say is this

Crystalina replied:
One of her daughters got her a nice outfit because she said her mom is always pregnant and most of her clothes are maternity or something in between so she got her something she could wear that was "normal". OOPs! Guess it'll be awhile before she can wear that. I felt bad for the little girl because her mom told her the news and then she had to give her the outfit and explain why she bought it. Poor kid. Maybe one day mom will slow down enough to enjoy it.

HuskerMom replied: Wow!!

skinkybaby replied: Good for them! I don't think I could do it!

PrairieMom replied: okay... to each their own I guess. Its not for me, but what ever...
Shouldn't she be about menopausal soon? how old is she anyway?

Mommy2BAK replied: woah! And people think I'm crazy for having 4!

A&A'smommy replied:
I had to go and watch it and I couldn't help but giggle at that part!!

Brendan's_Mommy replied: All I can say is WOW

coasterqueen replied: I will say this, and it's not meant in a negative way. I've been sitting here all morning trying to imagine being pg 18 times. I love being pg, but I'm not sure I'd be a sane puppy doing it 18 times.

My2Beauties replied:

Sam & Abby's Mom replied: Wow - good for them. Hope they have a healthy and happy baby

Calimama replied: Wow!! I wonder if they'll make it an even 20!

Crystalina replied: What gets me is that the kids were actually happy about it. You'd think after awhile they'd be like, whatever.

lovemy2 replied: of course I hope its a happy and healthy 9 months and that the baby is well but I found it kind of sad that there is a SCHEDULE for one on one time with Mom

mommy~to~a~bunch replied: Yay for them! I get the crazy looks when people find out I have 6 . Then they think I'm REALLY nuts when I say I want 12! I'm not crazy enough to have 18 though .

sparkys2boys replied:
I soo hear ya Karen..lol.. there is days now that I swear I have crossed to the insane side

Kentuckychick replied: Wow yeah

I heard abot this last night and my immediate reaction was "If you don't have something nice to say..."

I am however going to say this and note that I understand it's my opinion and others may see it differently from me and that's totally cool (not in it for an argument in other words)...

I think that for me, knowing several women who are in their late 30's/early 40's and are pregnant now with their first or second child because of reasons beyond their control and are fearful of the outcome, to see a 41 year old woman already "blessed" with 17 healthy children continuing to get pregnant once a year disturbs me. It is a well known medical fact that the risks to both mother and child increase with the age of the mother.

In my mind it's just a bit irresponsible.

I think the Lord was kind enough to bless her with all of these healthy children -- but is she asking for too much? She and her husband have said many times that they want more children. So it's not like they aren't trying.

I don't know... it just seems to me that she's getting to the point of pushing her luck a little bit...

Crystalina replied:
In the interview they said they don't prevent but they don't plan either. They just let God take over.

My only questions are this:

1. Where in the heck to they get their money? Their house is huge and they never seem to want for anything.


2. Where in the heck do they find the time for nookie? I only have 2 kids and nookie time is few and far between.

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
well, you must get enough nookie, because you are pregnant!

As for the money, I don't know what they do.

julesmom replied: I was also interested in how they afford to do all this. I did some googling and found:

Both Duggars are real estate agents, and both also host Bible-based “Financial Freedom Seminars.” They also own commercial properties. From 1999-2002, Jim Bob served in the Arkansas House of Representatives. He lost a bid for the U.S. Senate in 2002.

From: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20134584/

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I actually don't think that this is necessarily "bad". Think about it...in a way of sorts we all kind of plan our 1 on 1 time. Even if you watch episodes of Nanny 911 or Supernanny, they are making a schedule for everyone and each kid is scheduled 1 on 1 time, per the schedule regardless if there are 10 kids or 2 kids. Not sure if that made sense. I think with 18 children though, that a schedule, even for 1 on 1 time is necessary.

Good for them. Some people can't raise one right, and they are doing it with 17...or 18 now is it? Gosh, I lost track already. And yes, they don't plan but they don't prevent. What God will allow is ultimately what God wants, so...

Honestly I don't think it's that much different than running a 24 hour daycare center. Here in WI daycare teachers can have up to 13 4-year-olds (10 3-year-olds as well) by themselves (1 teacher per 13 children, that is)...so having 18 children ranging in ages from teenagers-infants, isnt' all that bad if you ask me.

Not everyone can handle what they do, so I guess I'll just be happy that God didn't choose me to have 18 children and let them take care of business like they do.

lisar replied: This is just my opinion so no harshing on me please.

The way I see it is that the older kids are raising the younger ones. Could just be editing though to make it look that way, I dont know. But its just my thinking on this. If they want 50 kids then so be it. To each their own. They can have as many as they want, I will still watch the show cause I kinda find it funny.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Me too! Them, and Jon and Kate.

jcc64 replied: It's awfully hard to know what goes on in that family based solely on the VERY heavily edited shows.
I will say that it seems that they prefer to live a pretty insulated lifestyle by choice- and if that is indeed the case, a family, even one as large as theirs', can get pretty claustrophobic if that's the only real interaction with the world they can enjoy on a regular basis. Maybe they want a new kid b/c they're bored with each other, who knows?!
Personally, I think it's a little narcissistic to think the world needs that much of one's own gene pool. If you want that many kids around, how about adopting some that are already here and in need of a home as solid as theirs' seems to be?
I'm sure they're lovely people. But I can't begin to understand their choices, just as I'm sure many people don't understand mine. It's just that mine aren't broadcast all over cable tv on a regular basis.

Danalana replied: The title of this thread made me laugh out loud!

cameragirl21 replied: hmmmm...18 homeschooled children with a teacher named Jim Bob...nuff said.
I think if they spent more time integrating with the outside world they might have realized that the 80s are over and so is big, permed hair. I applaud them for being able to be financially self sufficient but think that having kids raising their siblings is somewhat irresponsible, not to mention that having that many kids is altogether environmentally irresponsible. In the end, to each his own of course, better them than me.
I will say also that they appear to be exceptionally well behaved...not one talking out of turn, which may seem like a great thing on the surface but to those of you who have at least 2 kids, or even just one...does this seem like normal, healthy, children's behavior to you...or a group of stepford kids...?
I'd rather raise kids that are socially conscious, intellectually curious and are willing to question authority, even my own authority at times because I know I can't always be right than to raise a crew of stepford kids but of course, that is jmo.

holley79 replied: What ever works for them. I hope they are as happy behind the scenes as they are on screen.

H&H 9 months to mama.

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
You raise good points Jennifer. I know their parenting style is heavily scrutinized on another board I go to, and some of the "methods" they use are borderline abusive to me.

You are right, they need more contact with the outside world. They are very environmentally irresponsible for having so many kids. They use disposable diapers, and eat almost all processed foods. It's amazing that they are all healthy. Did you see their pantry? Canned goods as high as the ceiling!

cameragirl21 replied:
Mollie, you bring up something I've been meaning to ask you about--disposable diapers vs cloth. Here is my question--I was thinking, let's say you use cloth...I never have but I was cloth diapered as a baby so I guess here in the US (I was born in a 3rd world country with no washer and dryer, etc) one would probably go about it like this--baby fills the diaper with poop so you drop the poop into the toilet and flush. Then you rinse it out in the sink and use some cleaner to clean the sink after. Then you do an extra load of laundry (to accomodate the cloth diapers) and I imagine you would need to wash or at least dry at a very high heat...so my question is...is this really less harmful to the earth than disposables? I am not being sarcastic or knocking it, I seriously just don't know. I'm a bigtime tree hugger so I'm really in a quandary here...I would do whichever is less harmful but the question is--extra toilet flushing wastes water, extra rinsing in the sink...more water, using a chemical cleanser to clean the sink (although I suppose you could get around this by using vinegar and/or baking soda) and then washing/drying at a high heat, thereby using more energy. I am totally speaking in earnest so please forgive me if I sound snotty or am not expressing myself well...would you say with certainty that cloth is ultimately less harmful?

Crystalina replied:
Not to change the subject of the thread or to butt-in but Jennifer I watched a show about just this. I'm not sure if it was the Human Footprint show or another (I watched a lot like that in a short time) but it mentioned that cloth diapers are just as bad for the reasons you mentioned.

Danalana replied: Crystal, I have heard that too.

PrairieMom replied: I think we hashed the cloth Vs disposables before and came to the conclusion that they would be about the same, but I suppose you need to consider individual details, like, are you living where there is a severe water shortage? Like some small towns around where I am? we happen to have more land fill space than water around here.
Either way, resources get used up, it just depends on which ones are more important to you in your specific situation.
FYI, the use of soap nuts can cut your water consumption in half, and anyone crunchy enough to use soap nuts is probably line drying...

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
Without a doubt cloth is better. You have to consider what goes into making a disposable diaper, the raw materials and chemicals, then consider the fact that no one knows how long they take to decompose. It's scary to think about! In America, BILLIONS of disposables are tossed each year, and most of them don't bother dumping the feces in the toilet where it belongs. You also have to think about what they are leaching into the groundwater and the environment.

As for cloth being just as bad, no they aren't. Most people think that to feel less guilty for using something they know is bad. I do 2 extra loads of laundry a week using cloth. And you also have to remember that water is a renewable resource, oil isn't (used to make plastics & other junk). If we were in a drought, I'd still use cloth.

I don't rinse mine out unless there's poop. Usually then I can just shake it off & toss it in the pail. I usually don't flush the toliet after every one either; someone always has to go potty here!

There's a show on Discovery called "Wasted", and there was an episode called "Nappy Nightmare" (it's filmed in New Zealand; they call diapers "nappies" over there). It was said that cloth WAS better, and they had the family switch to cloth. It's a cool show to help people realize just how much they throw away, and to help them recycle/reduce their waste.

jcc64 replied: I think it probably does depend largely on where you live. In many parts of this country, water is THE biggest precious commodity, so if I lived in say, Atlanta, or in many places out west, I would lean toward disposables, I think. It also depends on where the waste water is going. We live in a watershed- our water, however carefully it is contained in our septic, must be seeping into the groundwater that eventually finds its way into NYC's drinking water (their water comes from up here). Yuk is all I can say.
The landfill thing is not to be ignored, for sure. Anything that doesn't break down is bad, bad, bad. But I'm not sure it's a cut and dry answer about which is less harmful.

Danalana replied: I still don't think disposable is "bad". Honestly, if we cared about the environment that much, we would all ride bicycles and live like the Amish, so as to not use energy. We do several things here to be environmentally friendly, but I do use cloth diapers. Is there anybody on this board who has given up everything that is harmful to the environment? I doubt it because it's pretty much impossible. But I do agree that we should do what we can and not be careless with resources.

cameragirl21 replied: whole foods sells a biodegradable disposable (I think I saw it at WF) and that may be the ideal option afterall.
As for the Duggars, I think they're a bit but I'm sure they'd say a tree hugging, animal rights touting photographer who is not God fearing the way they are is also so it all works out in the end.
Saving the Earth should be a priority for everyone, the question is what is the best way to do it and are we really doing a good thing when we think we are, if that makes sense...that is why I questioned the cloth diaper concept. I think preventing Rainforest deforestation should be at the top of our efforts because that is where we get most of our breathable air.

coasterqueen replied:
Dana,

I think you said it best. It is almost impossible to give up everything, unless you plan to go live in the wild somewhere. (Have you seen that movie btw, Into the Wild?) NEways, what is important is doing what we can and what we think is best for our own individual families. Yes, we have to think about earth, everyone else, etc but it's just impossible to do everything. Even the Amish don't give up everything. Not at least around here. They use gasoline - for some odd reason I see them at Menards alot here in town . (it's a hardware place). They buy materials that aren't "green". The point isn't for a minority of us to try to do EVERYTHING to help save the environment. I think the point is to do something, anything to help our environment. If everyone did just one thing to help out, it can make a huge different.

Danalana replied: That's a good point, karen. If everybody would do one thing, that would make for a better world.
And as far as "saving the earth"...I don't do environmentally-friendly things for that purpose. As a person of faith, I don't believe this world will last anyway--whether I use cloth or disposable. When it's done, it's done. Totally not in my control. Just my personal belief, but not an excuse to be apathetic.

grapfruit replied:
I saw that on the Today show the other day. The kids were shocked LoL

jcc64 replied:

Woah, that kind of spun my head around, Dana. It kind of does sound like an excuse to be apathetic, tbh. There ARE lots of things that are completely in our control. God did not create carbon-based, greenhouse gasses, we did. God didn't create nuclear weapons, we did. And our children will be the ones to suffer through the consequences of our irresponsible destruction of the planet. I know there are lots of people that believe that judgment day is coming, and somehow we can trod all over the earth willy-nilly because it's gonna blow up soon anyway. All I can say is, the only certainty we have is today, what's happening right now. We can't know what tomorrow will bring, and I think we need to act accordingly. Judgment day, or armageddon, or whatever it is you're referring to, could happen tomorrow, in a 1000 yrs, or not at all. None of us know, none of us will ever know, until it happens, IF it happens. The best we can do for our children is to leave them with a future that doesn't include skin cancer, gas masks, food shortages, colossal, devastating weather events, and on and on.
Wow, I'm just stunned. This is not a slam at you, hon. I'm just kind of thinking out loud here.

cameragirl21 replied: I actually think we have a lot of control over saving or destroying our planet. Every tree you cut down to make paper or diapers or anything else makes a difference and every tree you plant makes a difference. There are companies that work with businesses to calculate your carbon footprint and then you pay for an offset. I am giving that some very serious thought as I think it's a great idea. Imagine if we all offset our own carbon footprint!

Danalana replied:
Oh, I agree with you totally! No idea when this world will end, but I do believe it is already determined. And I can be a good steward of my land (which I do believe I am), but it won't change that...KWIM? I know lots of people won't agree, and that's ok I still don't want to let the earth go to crap. We have a beautiful world to enjoy and I want to help keep it that way!

luvmykids replied: I know what you mean, Dana. Just to clarify, I think what she meant is that she does environmentally friendly stuff to treat the earth well since we've been entrusted with it, but not to "save" it, because a day will come that it will no longer exist no matter what. Is that what you meant, Dana?


I think that could be read that you do not do environmentally things, and this is why, instead of that you do them but not because of a valiant effort to save the planet. I read it wrong the first time, thats why I thought I'd try to clarify it in case someone else misunderstood too

Danalana replied: OH! Yes! Thanks, Monica
To sum it up, I think we should treat the earth well because we have been given stewardship over it. Nobody knows how long it will last, so we should do the best we can, for sure Am I making sense now? Maybe, with Monica's help!

mckayleesmom replied: Well..I do have an opinion about the Duggars...and its not a great one.

My problem with the Duggars is that the parents don't raise them themselves.....They pass them on to the younger children to take care of them...The buddy system.....To me thats not taking care of your kids, thats making your older children take care of the younger ones. Its like the mom just likes having babies and once she delivers a new one she passes the other off to one of her kids.....If everybody had older kids to take care of our little ones...we would all be having tons of kids. But most people chose to raise our kids ourselves so we don't.

People argue that they are so loving and respectful...Of course they are. It has been drilled into their heads. Have you ever seen the episode where all the kids spew off a list of rules. Where in this list or rules are they allowed to show any other emotion?

Here is the exact list

Always use soft words even when you don't feel well
Always use kind actions, even when youve been mistreated
Show joyful attitudes even when know one else is looking
Have sincere motives with no thought of self gain
Think pure thoughts
Always give a good report of others. Never tale-bear unless physical harm will come to someone. Use Mathew 18
Never raise a hand to hit
Never raise a foot to kick
Never raise an object to throw
Never raise a voice to yell
Never raise an eye to scowl
Never let the sun set on your wrath (don't go to bed angry or upset)
Amendment J.O.Y. ~ make serving your family a priority~Jesus first, others second, yourself last
Clean up after yourself!!! This includes inside and outside!!! This also includes the bathroom
Practice the Golden Rule ~see above J.O.Y.

The list stops shy of poop rainbows and weave straw into gold. Nowhere on that list does it say that they are allowed to have a bad day.


I would be more then happy for the duggars if they were actually physically raising each one of their children....But they are not, their children are raising their children. They might be financially taking care of them, but that is not the only thing that parenting consists of. To me, having a kid so you can have a cute baby every year and then passing it on to your older child to raise once you have another one is borderline child abuse.


When I was growing up...I lived in a family of 6..which was considered big back then. We had chores and had to help out, but we still got to be kids. My mom raised us.


My dislike of them doesn't even have anything to do with the amount of kids they have...its how they treat them...They are like robotic slaves.

They showed another family once on KIDS BY THE DOZEN..I believe they had 22 kids and guess what.....The parents took care of all the kids...Shocker. Im sure the older ones helped some, but I didn't see any buddy system going on. They were all a big happy family...and not the fake happy the Duggars kids seem to be. They joked around with each other, loved each other and heres another shocker...some of them showed anger and got mad at each other occassionally.


I also think that Michelle is putting her health in danger also, which I find selfish to her other kids.

jcc64 replied: Thanks for clearing that up, both Dana and Monica!

cameragirl21 replied:
This is exactly what I mean when I call them "stepford kids". Sorry, but normal, healthy kids don't live by those rules, 24/7 and normal, healthy kids are allowed to have thoughts, ideas, and emotions of their own. Few things in life are worse than not being able (or allowed) to think for yourself.

lisar replied:
I agree. I already said on here that I think they the older ones are raising the younger ones. Thanks for the list of "rules" my rules consist of

dont pitch a fit at the gorcery store, wait till we get home and I can ignore you
clean your room (which by the way they DONT do)

I mean these are the kind of rules a normal family has

Mommy2BAK replied: I would be very intrested to see an update on the Duggar kids in about 20 years from now.

5littleladies replied: I think the Duggars are crazy, not because I have a problem with the amount of kids they have-I just don't think I could handle that many, although I think it would be a load of fun.

I don't understand why people have such a problem with the buddy system. I only have 4 kids and while we don't have a full blown buddy system (which I don't believe is as "awful" as it is made out to be) my older kids help with the younger kids on a regular basis. Maddie and Meg both change Lissa's diapers, Maddie gives Lissa baths, and they both take turns making lunch and spending time playing with and watching the younger two. Does that mean my kids are raising each other? No. Does that mean my kids have no time with mom? Definitely not. Does that mean they have no time to be kids? Um...no. My kids have more than enough time to do kid things-sometimes I think maybe too much.

Michelle home schools her kids-you better believe that means she spends alot of time with her kids. And with no disrespect toward those who work outside of the home, if you are home full time and use your time wisely (get up early, keep to a schedule, etc.) they you really have a good amount of time to work with. I would be willing to bet that her kids get plenty of time to spend with mom.

As for the list that Brianne posted-What's wrong with that? Why shouldn't they have a standard that they strive to live up to. If I'm putting up a list of rules I'm not going to put in there "unless you are having a bad day". Everyone has a bad day-that doesn't mean you don't still try to treat other people with respect.

So, yeah. JMO. I know the majority of people won't agree with me, but that's ok. Such is life.

My2Beauties replied:
I agree, I don't like the way they run their family, that's all I have to say.

luvmykids replied:
I very much agree. Our "rules" are similar, maybe worded differently, and they apply to myself too; I have to remind myself that just because I'm stressed doesn't mean I can snap at everyone, or that being angry is an excuse to treat others poorly. It doesn't mean I'm not allowing my kids to feel emotions, just to try to handle them appropriately.

Crystalina replied: I'm thinking the Duggars seem "weird" to a lot of us becuase they have their religion and their religion comes first. I watched the other family (with 22 kids) that mckayleesmom mentioned and they seem more "normal" because they are not religious in the way the Duggars are. I don't even remember them mentioning relgion.

I know a family that dresses similiar to the families in the FLDS and they are pretty much like the Duggars. This family only has 5 kids and they are very soft spoken and so calm that sometimes I just want to shake them. They built their house by themselves. Kids and all. I went out there one day and the mother and two of her older daughters were putting on the roof in their dresses. They are very nice people but the difference between their family and mine is that religion is very very high on their list. People think their kids are like robots and they may seem to be but it's just how they were raised and the religion part of it.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
This list comes from the Bible, but in different terms of course. This is how Jesus wants us to treat others and handle ourselves. Is the list honestly really THAT bad? Come on...if we all acted that way a little more then the world would be a better place, IMO.

luvmykids replied:
"Religion" is a very important part of our family but I can say with certainty that nobody would call my kids robotic or calm We read the Bible together and I use it a lot to reinforce some of the basic behaviors I expect and strive for in all of us....when they're fighting a lot, I'll get it out and say "Lets see what God says about loving each other", "What does it say about listening to your parents" etc. I know some people will think thats weird, but all of their rules are things found in the Bible and I guess my point is that most of us have very similar rules, maybe the Bible isn't emphasized but I don't think their rules are that "out there".

Don't we all say "Treat others how you want to be treated", "No hitting" "Stop tattleing" "NO throwing" "Stop yelling at your sister" "I know you're mad but you still have to talk to me respectfully"

PrairieMom replied:
I was thinking that too, like, I should print that list off and tape it to the bathroom mirror.
It doesn't say that they can't have a hard time or bad day, it just gives them goals to strive for.

cameragirl21 replied: Ok, here is the bottom line question, and in all fairness, the Duggars are free to do what they wish as long as they don't break any laws and I doubt they care what anyone here thinks of them but I guess this is the ultimate issue for ME--to all of you who have at least one child, which is nearly everyone here--can you honestly tell me that it is perfectly natural for all 17 children to NEVER talk out of turn, ALWAYS be on their best behavior and NEVER fight in public, like when the family takes their outings to walmart, for instance, or ask their parents to buy them this or that EVER? Please state your thoughts on this because for me, I'd much rather have kids who talk back, especially if they have something intelligent to say, than kids who just go through life like drones. Life is not a dress rehearsal, you get one shot and if you don't make the most of it because it's not your turn to speak or the bible says your behavior is unbecoming even if you're having a bad day, etc....

mckayleesmom replied: Im not saying the things on the list are bad....Im saying where is the rest of the list? Where is

If you are having a bad day...come talk to mom or dad

If you are in a foul mood ..go somewhere by yourself.

Etc.

When are the kids allowed to show emotion? Based on the list..they are suppose to keep it to themselves if they are having any problems.


To address 4littleladies buddy system thing....Yes, Im ok with helping out and doing chores, etc. But whenever they show that family on tv...all those older kids are doing is working. One is making dinner for 19 people and the others are doing laundry all day. I read on one of their sites that those girls do 200 loads of laundry a month. Can you imagine being a teenager and spending all your time taking care of a family you didn't help multiply? The only reason these kids act so cheerful and obedient is because they don't know any better. When do they get time to have a little fun? Think about all you do in a day and then multiply it by how much those girls and boys have to be doing. It is pretty sad.

Crystalina replied:
My post was mostly about their outward appearence. They dress like that due to their religion. The girls all have basically the same hairstyle...that kind of thing. Pair that up with their soft spoken words and obedience and to most they seem Stepford-ish or robotic.

I know most of us on this board have religion in our homes but we don't change our style of clothing to match it. I don't think the Duggars are wrong for doing this but I can see where people think them odd because of it. It's not the norm.

PrairieMom replied:
I think it would be natural for them to behave that way. if the first few behaved that way, then the younger ones would all grow and follow that example.
I am not saying that it never happens, I'm sure some of them step out of line at times, they ARE children after all, they get tired and low blood sugar the same as any others, but I also believe that they are also extremely well behaved because of the situation they are in, and the example they are given to follow.

TheOaf66 replied:
nah, lets keep it the way it is and everyone live for themselves and not give a crap about anyone else.

mckayleesmom replied:
I don't find that wierd at all Monica...we do the same thing. I highly doubt your kids are as robotic as the Duggar kids. Im sure your kids are allowed to show emotion too. To me the Duggars almost seem brainwashed or something.

Crystalina replied:
Jennifer, children model their behavior by what they see. My children have seen violence on t.v., they go to public schools where they interact with other children who may deal with violence (harsh words, older siblings, t.v) at their houses, DH and I argue and sometimes in front of the kids so when my children do the same things they see I can only expect it and stear them away from that behavior.

The Duggars homeschool and I doubt Mom & Dad Duggar cuss at each other when the cameras are gone. There are no t.v.'s the kids mimic the behavior of their parents. If their parents are well behaved (not that we aren't) then that's the behavior they will do. I can totally see that.

luvmykids replied:
Of course not. I do know families who have kids as well behaved as the Duggars though It's not that they NEVER do it, it's just rare. And remember, what you see is edited

Personally, I'm not in favor of "talking back". Some things aren't open for discussion. I do expect my kids to do something when and simply because I tell them to. Does that mean there is never a time for them to talk about it? No, we modify and change and bargain. It's just done in a respectful way and appropriate time...Why? I never wanted to have to scream at my kid in the middle of the street and have them argue "Why? Now? But I'm just getting my ball".....and I wanted my kids to learn to trust me, that sometimes they may not understand a rule or something but just because they don't understand doesn't mean they don't have to follow it. Now, at their ages, we have a good flow of how and when to question things, and when not to. When they get older, that will increase, but at these ages we're not a democracy, they don't have the experience or wisdom to decide how they get parented Are they allowed to not like it, not want to do it, be mad about it, ask questions? Of course.

And once again, as someone else said, it doesn't mean you don't get to have a bad day but it does mean you try to maintain a standard for yourself in spite of it.

cameragirl21 replied:
Yes but they do go out in public on occasion and see other children and should realize (at least the older ones) that their bizarre little world is just that--bizarre compared with the reality that most kids live in. Additionally, I'd have to wonder how well equipped these kids will be to face the real world once they are no longer kids...or will they be living in the Duggar compound until they're ready for a nursing home?

Crystalina replied:
Are they bizarre or is it that we have a hard time relating to their way of life? Heck, I think dropping an infant off of a building to a waiting sheet below is strange but who am I to say that? They've been doing that for hundreds of years.

I do agree that I wonder how they will live when they get older but you have to realize that they are not the first family to live like this and both parents seem to have good jobs and they are functioning quite well.

luvmykids replied:
This is probably a poor comparison based solely on the fact that my example is an only child, but I have a cousin who could be one of their kids....she was homeschooled by her parents and my grandma, I have never once heard her answer an adult with anything other than yes or no sir/ma'am, she does not argue with her parents simply out of respect, etc....She is now in her second year of college (at a well known party school) and thriving. She has friends, has fun, excels in schools, volunteers at a crisis center, etc. In spite of her new exposure to another world, she's fine.

The Duggar kids may be thrilled to bust out of their home and life, but I have a feeling they'll find their way in the world just fine.

cameragirl21 replied: in all fairness, the Duggar kids are not my problem, or the problem of anyone here for that matter. I'm just grateful not to be one of them. For me, like I said, few things in life are more important than thinking for yourself and having the opportunity to form your own thoughts, ideas, and opinions on things. Doesn't mean I'm anti-discipline and obviously some things are not negotiable but I'm of the firm belief that if your kids talk back in an intelligent manner and actually have something original to say, then it's far better than the yes ma'am, no sir routine. I also think that religion is a wonderful thing that is best taken in moderation. While it's certainly not the best comparison, remember that religion was really high on the list of a group of men who decided to hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings, killing thousands of innocent people in the name of religion. Not to compare the Duggars (or anyone here of course) to those people but I guess I see religion as having the ability to harm just as much as it helps when taken to the extreme and this is the case in ANY religion, including my own.

stella6979 replied:
During one of the interviews I saw, the Parents said they are hoping that all their kids will choose to build houses on their property and raise their families there.

lisar replied:
I agree. They can do what they want to do I dont care. I am not one of them. Also everyone keep in mind that what we see on TV is edited.

However I am glad that I am not one of them

lisar replied:
From the way it sounds the way you do your buddy system isnt like the Duggars. The duggars have this buddy system that an older kid takes care of the younger kid 24/7. Not just helping the parents like you do. Heck yea I have asked Lexi to give Raygen a bath for me. Normally she will ask for a dollar though. But the way your buddy system sounds is NOTHING like the one in question.

punkeemunkee'smom replied:


OMG-NO! Treat people kindly? Be responsible? HOW DARE THEY expect such civil behavior from their children! It is pure madness, I tell you!

~Roo'sMama~ replied:
Dh and I were just talking about this last week Dana, and I said the exact same thing to him. I want to do what I can to keep the earth clean and all that while it's here - I recycle and I don't litter or dump toxic waste in the fields or anything like that. I do what i can afford to do - I am even considering cloth diapering my next one but we'll see. But it is just a matter of time before this earth is gone anyways and nothing anyone does to try to *save* it is going to make a difference as far as that goes.

As far as the Duggars go, who are we to judge? I think big families are great - and families that big were common not that long ago. My grandmother had 16 children, and a friend of my parents' has 20 siblings. Not everyone back then had families that big, but a lot of people did and it wasn't looked down on. They seem to be doing just fine, and I highly doubt they're all brainwashed.

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
I think you have a typo- do you really use cloth diapers?

It's impossible to give up EVERYTHING, because we DON'T have a CHOICE. What would be so bad about everyone caring about the environment? That's a BAD thing? Why not make some efforts to help? I really don't believe in God, or that he will save us from ourselves. WE will kill ourselves off along with the whole planet if everyone keeps consuming the way they are now.

TANNER'S MOM replied: Well, I think all families have the buddy systems in one way or another. As a mother of four I do. And I have for years. It may be something as simple as take your brothers hand when we got to Wal-mart so he doesn't wonder off, or how many times have we said, Hey what's your sister doing? She is being awfully quiet? Help your brother with his homework while I make supper? All those things are just part of being a family.

In a way they remind of life when my father was growing up. When the world was a simple and better place to live. When crime was lower, and if you did commit a crime you were punished. You never talked back to my Granny, you knew better. You said Yes Ma'am when she asked you something. You were expected to help her when it was time to cook supper, and get the clothes off the line. Was it an awful way to grow up...NO. You know I always respected my Granny, never talked back to her. But that doesn't mean she never asked me how I was feeling? It doesn't mean my feelings were never considered? It just meant that I respected her, and she respected me. Or we got a good old fashioned spanking. And was that a beating..NOPE it was not. Did I learn a lesson, you bet. Do I have resentful feelings for that, Not at all. I think everything she did she did with love. She raised 7 children and me. And no we aren't going to be the President any time soon, but are all productive members of society. We all pay our taxes and do our civic duty.

On the religion thing. I grew up being pentecostal. I grew up going to church with what we always called the BUN ladies. My ex mother in law ( Brittany's Grandma) has never wore a pair pants in her life. Does that make her odd? Maybe to some, but after you know her and the other people who chose to live like that, you realize they are just Moms like us. No maybe they don't have the best fashion sense. But I promise they have a good heart. That God, Family and country are way more important then anything else. They still have bad days, still lose patients with their kids. Still have to pay bills. They only difference is that they have FAITH in something, that helps them get through it. You know I find some religions odd. I find religions who don't be in Jesus Christ to be odd. But I don't worry about it. I can't tell you who will be in heaven, or who won't. I know I have to live my life, and be the best person, mother and wife I can. I think that is all they are doing in there own way. I often dream of taking my children away from all the harm in the world. Living away from all the bad, and getting back to nature. And I don't think NO TV is a bad thing. I thinks it's a good thing. We have a tv. But just think of what you would get done if didn't. Think of what your mind would do for entertainment if you didn't have a TV..would your children read more books, play more games with each other, do more creative thing? You bet, I know my would.

I find nothing wrong with the rules! I actually LOVE the rules. Is that any different then the rules in every classroom in America? My kids can act that well in school, can I not expect them to at home.

Now, I wouldn't have 18 kids. I have four and that's more than I ever planned. It's a blessing I never expected. But for the people who choose to have NONE, I think wow what are they missing out on, and I guess the woman who has 18, thinks wow..look at all the joy they are missing out on. But thats their choice to have none is no different than someone's choice to have 18, it's a personal choice.

Now, on the enviroment. Yes, we have to be stewards. Yes we have to raise our children to be careful of the things they do to harm the earth. But if we tell a woman it's not enviromentally correct to have 18, then next it will be wrong for me to have 4, and then for you to have your 2. Next will be living in China! And for nothing in the world could I imagine giving up my 4 children for the sake of the Ozone or the rain forest.

my2monkeyboys replied: I absolutely agree 100%!!!!!
It's funny how quick some us will look down on and put down a family who we do not know at all, but for the heavily edited bits they allow us to see on tv.

punkeemunkee'smom replied:
Could not have said it better!

~Roo'sMama~ replied:
Well said Mel!

5littleladies replied: ITA with what Mel said!

luvmykids replied:
She does care, and does do her part. We clarified this earlier

punkeemunkee'smom replied:

Seriously? ALWAYS.......NEVER....... They are on TV for an hour or 2 at a time and in that hour or 2 they cover days, sometimes weeks. The words you choose to use make it seem as though you have a live 24 hour feed into their house. The Duggars after Dark on showtime? Their kids are well mannered and well behaved but I have seen outakes from the show in which the little ones are running amuck and won't sit still. Kids will be kids-maybe these kids are just better behaved than most of the video game,junk food eating sugar addicts that the rest of us are used to. It did NOT used to be the norm to back talk or question authority, it WAS NOT excusable to use vulgar language and insult your family members or people you did not know for that matter. I find it laughable that while we will give so many hugs and pats on the back when we are discussing the MISbehavior of a child on here that children who just might be better socially adjusted than any in our homes are picked apart because they are TOO GOOD?!?!

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:

Nevermind - not worth it.

cameragirl21 replied: Ok, I can see why Mollie says "not worth it" but I just have to add a few things. First of all, there is nothing wrong with having faith, I too have faith. However, God gave us this planet and while I can't presume to know what he is thinking, I'd be willing to bet he is extremely disappointed in the way we humans are taking care of it. I personally don't believe this earth will be destroyed except at the hands of human stupidity such as nuclear bombs being thrown around or harming the environment to the point where the ecosystem can no longer take it but that is jmo and I don't want to trample on anyone's religious beliefs. IF the Earth will be destroyed, no one knows when and tbh, it is the most valuable asset in our children's inheritance, no matter how much money one has...it is the most valuable asset in Bill Gates' kids inheritance as well because no amount of money will save them if there aren't enough resources to go around.
And as for it being environmentally irresponsible to have 18, well, here is the thing--if the population keeps exploding the way it is and people continue to disrespect the planet then we will simply run out of resources and very likely our kids and grandkids will be told there is a limit to how many kids they can have, just like in China. China has this rule due to limited resources, not just for the purpose of creating another rule to impose on people. And people like the Duggars are taking up more than their share, so to speak, and hastening that likely outcome, which is what those of us who call it environmentally irresponsible mean to say. And those of us who are tree huggers like myself are not just saying that because we think trees are pretty, it's that we want to leave something good for our kids, not just a set of problems due to our own irresponsible and negligent behavior.
No one would expect anyone to trade their kids for the Rainforest or ozone BUT no one (hopefully) wants their kids to require an oxygen mask to breathe and not to be able to go outside during daylight hours without being covered from head to toe due to the dangers of a blistering, cancer causing sunburn, which is exactly what will happen if we destroy the rainforest and ozone layer, no ifs, ands or buts about it. Protecting the environment is our responsibility to future generations. I will never be as crunchy as Mollie, most of us won't so all we can do is our share and hopefully that goes beyond just not dumping toxic waste into the earth which btw is a crime that will land one in prison. Let's hope we can do more than just the minimum to keep from getting arrested.
Anyway, my issue with the Duggars goes beyond just the environment, I also feel she is imposing her duties on her kids. If she wants kids by the dozen then she should be doing their laundry and cleaning the house. It's fine for the kids to help and have chores but to each have their own "jurisdictions" is imo shirking her duties and passing them onto her kids. I think the best thing we can do for the future is raise critical thinkers who grow up with new ideas because that is what we will need to save us from the folly our generation and previous generations have committed. If she raised 18 kids who talked about going to Africa to build irrigation systems so people there could eat or studied science so as to find a cure for Alzheimer's instead of spending their days doing laundry for the entire family and engaging in other drone like behaviors then maybe I'd see it differently. I just don't see enough progressive, forward thinking families producing a large amount of children to counteract the damage of burning enough fossil fuels needed to drive a family with 18 kids around in a bus and create new ideas to counteract the brainwashing of others. Where are the lefties with 18 liberal minded, pagan loving, artsy kids who spend their days planting trees and fighting for women's rights in Saudi Arabia...?

Hillbilly Housewife replied: I’m personally happy for her. She’s not an idiot, she’s clearly educated, if she’s a real estate agent and she home-schools… and if the father was a politician, is in real estate as well, and makes/has enough $ to build such a home… even if his name is Jim Bob, which by the way is a normal name and not at all derogatory as it was made to sound, I think that if really she was in a position that having another child would be detrimental, she wouldn’t have another.

I WAYYYY prefer to see such a loving good-mannered family grow up with those morals and values, rather than some crack-ho having 18 babies from different daddies, living in a trashy trailer park (nothing against trailer parks, there are some nice ones out there.. I’m talking about the really run down ones with old fat men drinking beer on the steps and shooting possums type of trailer parks.. you know what I mean I’m sure… and letting them run around with no role model while mama’s out hooking and smoking a joint.

Not to sound crude, but 18 Duggar kids are a heck of a step up from 18 crack-babies with no education, no morals, running rampant with drugs and guns, and I’m 100% sure that each any every one of them will continue their education and accomplish good things. Maybe a few will have some wild days…but haven’t we all?

I think that no matter what the Duggars do, they will come under the microscope – such is fame…. And it’s too bad that they can’t win, either way.

luvmykids replied: Mollie, nobody has said it isn't worth taking care of our planet or that being concerned is a BAD thing

lisar replied: Mental note to self: Never start a topic about the Duggar family.

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
I know, which is why I won't bother discussing it anymore. Not worth the stress to me.

cameragirl21 replied:
Mollie, there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion, this is a diverse group and not everyone is going to agree with you but you offer up a lot of information and knowledge and knowledge is power! I don't always agree with you and I'm sure you (and everyone else here) won't always agree with me, I think the reason people come here is to learn and you can only learn if someone has something new to offer that you don't already know, which you always do. I have learned a lot from you even if I don't always see things your way and I'm sure others here have as well.
The environment and the future of our planet and as such, the future generations that will live in it is ALWAYS worth it imo...conversations about the Duggars always take a bad turn here from my experience but they put themselves out there and everyone is going to have an opinion on them, that's just life. Every seed of knowledge that you plant in someone can lead to big things, always remember that. This btw goes for everyone here, not just Mollie.

lisar replied:
I agree.

We all learn alot from each other. Thru the good and the bad. Weather we agree or not. I know I have run ins with alot of people on here, but I still consider them my friends on here. I have learnt something from each and every person on here. I know me and Jennifer (cameragirl21) have bumped heads on here way more than once. But see I am agreing with her on this.

TheOaf66 replied: I think everyone needs to stop worrying so much about the planet. It has survived a lot more than we can throw at it.

1. The Flood
2. The Ice Age
3. Dinosaurs etc.

The earth will take care of itself long after we are gone...sometimes it just needs to recycle itself and start over which is what will probably happen.

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
Those are natural processes that humans had not contributed to. Yes, the Earth can heal herself, but how do we know she can fix what we've done to it? We are destroying the planet, and a good majority of the people don't care. It's very depressing.

TheOaf66 replied: it was designed to withstand anything we can throw at it.

jcc64 replied:

Lisa, !!!!!!!!!!!


The only thing I completely disagree with here is the statement directly above. We DO have to worry about the planet, not for our sake, but our kids. Maybe the planet will recycle itself naturally, as you claim, but that's not what we're talking about. The dinosaurs and the Ice Age were a NATURALLY occurring phenomenon, NOT created by us. God or nature or whomever or whatever you all believe in may have had a hand in those events, but as I said previously, he certainly didn't create global warming. And for those here that believe in creationism, we humans do not have a right to disrespect and trash what God has put here for us.

About the Duggars, lots of good points all around. Mel, I think I agree with much of what you said. Does that shock you?!

Danalana replied:
I obviously don't engage in any kind of debate very often...that's probably a good thing!

TheOaf66 replied:
I respectfully disagree

God created everything.

Now I am not saying we shouldn't take care of the planet by any means because it is just stupid not to. But you can't take it to the extreme, do you part but don't worry about "Destroying" the planet...humans are just making it less pretty.

Danalana replied:
I understand your point, Jennifer, though I think the list is a great one. You argue that it isn't "normal" for them to act the way they do. But you have to consider that they are serving Jesus. Jesus definitely wasn't normal. Come on, who forgives people who are putting them through more pain and humiliation than any of us will ever know? So I don't think it's abnormal that they aren't normal. Not trying to offend anybody who doesn't believe, but just trying to present the side from which they are coming. And I can guarantee that they all have bad days and mess up the "rules". I think the point is to live as closely to it as possible.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Dana, you said that so nicely. Also, if you read their family website, they fully admit to having bad days and that parenting is a learning experience for them just like anyone else, and that they are not perfect. They only try to train up their children as God would see fit...and for that I have a lot of respect for.

ETA: just a side point...most things in this world that are considered normal by "our" standards, are not "ok" by God's standards.

Danalana replied:
Oops, good call. I use disposable!

And thanks, Monica

Crystalina replied:
The Duggars having 18 kids have nothing to do with this. For every woman who decides to have a football team and a half of kids there are plenty of women who choose not to have children or only have one child. If every 3rd or 4th or even 10th household had that many children then we would have to worry but this is not the case.

I happen to think the woman is a lunatic for having that many children for sanity reasons. I feel the same way about my sister who is pg with her 8th. It took me a lot of thinking and sweating and pondering just to get pg with my 3rd. I still have ocassional freak-outs at just the thought of a 3rd child.

holley79 replied:


What is the difference in the Duggars CHOSING to have 18 children and 18 different people deciding NEVER to have children, doesn't that kind of counteract things? I work with 23 people WHO will never have children by choice. So the way I see it, more power to the Duggars. It's their life. We will have a max of 2 children by choice. If I decided to have 18 children of my own who is ANYONE to tell me I am environmentally irresponsible???

Crystalina replied:
So weird that we posted almost the same thing at the exact same time.

holley79 replied:
Would rather see this as well then what I see daily in my job. Everything you discribed just now is where my deputies are right now working a child neglect case.

My mom raised us to help out around the house, we had chores, we went to church, we didn't talk back, I helped my mom with my younger siblings, she WAS a single mom at the time and I had a lot more responsiblity then most children my age. I don't for one minute regret it. If they children't aren't happy, as they get older they will move out and live their lives the way they see fit.

Crystalina replied: In my house there was the rule "Children should be seen and not heard." This was mostly when the adults had company. We also had a lot of chores. I hated them just as most kids do but it didn't kill me. When I was too young to reach the sink my mother would pull a chair up. It was fun at first...until I had to do it.

holley79 replied:
Hey great minds think alike!!

I was just asking some people here at work. They said since they don't have children they have no opinion. I just had to laugh when they said this.

punkeemunkee'smom replied: ITA with the fact that NOBODY has enough authority to tell me how many children I can or can not have. China has regulated themselves right into a worker crisis in the near future. Who knows if the Duggars 19th child or my parents 9th will cure cancer or balance the budget and if they don't BUT they are just good people then WTH are you are anyone else to judge the value of their lives?

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
That attitude is exactly why now we are trying to deal with the consequences of imminent global warming.

(speaking generally, just using the specific comment, replying to the comment, not to the poster!)

I am simply flabbergasted, frustrated, annoyed, and saddened by how many people share those thoughts, and have no obvious desire to help avoid the destruction that over the years we have brought upon our own selves. The temperature changes, the droughts, the floods causing famines and food shortages where there were none before... it's not getting better, and probably won't in our lifetime.

I'm sorry, but someone saying that the earth was meant to handle it is just so completely inaccurate, it makes my head hurt, and really gives me insight on why the problems this earth is having aren't sooner resolved. You can talk about God created everything until you are blue in the face... and you may belive it, but it is not fact. Nobody can prove that it IS indeed fact. So to just say screw it, it's in god's hands, in my opinion is a little arrogant, especially knowing the path we are on, for global warming and such, and knowing that the simple things can make all the difference, if more people were into it and not just brushing it aside as an act of God.

I don't mean to insult your faith, nor you, I just can't wrap my head around how proven, tested science can lose to some story that is so debated throughout the world, that nobody really truly knows whether it is even true. Even if the earth CAN heal herself... I certainly don't want myself, my family, to be just..obliterated because the earth has had it of us detructive monsters and decides to recycle and start over with some new lifeform better suited to its changing environment.

With all the pollution out there, it isn't a couple extra Duggar kids that are going to throw the world off balance and cause giant fireballs of doom to land on our heads.

As for the Duggars being normal or not - they're normal to some, not normal to others...who cares. It works for them, and it's not your family, so does it really matter? It's not like they're taking tax money away from you, they're not living off social security that you pay into, they're not buying food out from under you, and those kids are certainly going to have fantastic life skills, and I for one would be just honored to have such a positive influence in my kids lives. They're definitely NOT takin gup more than their share...seems to me that they own their land, built their house, buy their food with their money, make most of their clothes, recycle most things they can.. don't go out too much, heck they probably use less gas in a month than most of us use in a week. You all talk about "so many people"... please. The amount of land they have could easily fit several families. The person / square kilometre ratio is pretty darn low, if you ask me, compared to inner city... so to say they create more waste? Absolutely not true. I mean, yes, there are 20 of them... but come on. Amount of people in the same square footage area, in a city? 140? 160? a 7th or an 8th of the waste produced in the same land area, city wise... doesn't seem to bad to me at all.

mommy~to~a~bunch replied: to Rocky!

TheOaf66 replied:

Done with this thread

My2Beauties replied: Rocky, good post regarding global warming and such, awesome.

Danalana replied: Rocky, I understand your argument regarding faith, but I think you'll find that lots of people of faith care about the environment. We might believe that the fate of this world is controlled by God, but that doesn't mean we litter or do other careless things because of it. Yes, I believe that all the recycling in the world (or other green behavior) won't ultimately change how long this world lasts, but that doesn't mean that I want to pollute it unnecessarily or waste resources. Does that make sense? I'm not apathetic about the earth or taking measures to preserve it in some way. It's a beautiful world....travelling it and photographing it are some of my biggest passions. I wouldn't purposefully sabotage that.

TheOaf66 replied:
thanks Dana, that is what I was trying to say but didn't quite know how to say it.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
It`s not so much an argument about faith – it`s more that some people with faith have such blind faith that they truly believe that God will take care of them, rather than take it upon themselves to help themselves in some small way. I`m not saying all people of faith don`t care about the environment… I just think that choosing to believe in their faith rather than believing scientific proof of environmental changes is arrogant, in the sense that a lot of the people who think that way don`t make more of an effort to help keep it green. I know it`s not the case for you, specifically, nor do I think it is specifically the case for anyone here

skinkybaby replied: There is no such thing as a scientific fact either. There are only theories.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
Test results are either positive, negative or inconclusive. I'd wage a fair bit that the positive and negative results are a little more than theories... but that's just me. The same test can be performed half a world away with the same results, I'd say that's slightly more proof than 25 versions of the same storybook. I'm not going to debate religion vs, science. Everything is theoretical... i'm just more of the proof-wanting variety of kook.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Bingo. Thank you. One may also argue that God created science and many times the two can go hand in hand, but that's a whole other thread.

Crystalina replied: How about those Duggars?

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
Yeah, let's not go there .

mommy~to~a~bunch replied:
I'm a kook too Rocky! You're right - we DO have a few things in common.

Boo&BugsMom replied:

Yeah...so how about them?

coasterqueen replied:
ITA. I also I'm confused on how people can just say the earth will take whatever we do to it. Shouldn't we respect it like we are taught to respect others. For those who are religious, wouldn't God want us to? That just confuses me.

Danalana replied:
I knew what you were saying, but I have to laugh...I think the whole point of having faith is to believe and trust completely. Otherwise, it's more of a hobby or pasttime.
To reiterate, I knew you were saying that you have to be proactive, in addition to having faith. I just thought the wording was funny Oh, and I took it out of context because I'm cool like that

lisar replied:


I dont know enough about the whole global warming and things to even try and get into that conversation. But I am reading them maybe I will learn something.

coasterqueen replied:
Yeah, I'd tend to believe that more than I'd ever just believe that God is in control of everything.

Danalana replied:
Yes, absolutely.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Absolutely. God gave us this Earth and it is our job to take care of it as best as we can. But a good point was made when someone mentioned that we can't possibly give up everything, living in today's society, even if we WERE all Amish....they also have some conveniences that aren't necessarily good for the Earth.

I think that is what Troy was talking about. He will fully admit I am the more "health and Earth" conscious one in the home, but he wasn't suggesting we just "don't care" (TBH...he got mad at me for not putting cardboard in the recycle container not long ago ). He was just saying that there is such a thing as worrying TOO much...it's not worth getting SO worked up because there is only so much we CAN do. Does that make sense? His other point was meerly about when God created the Earth he had in mind all the conveniences we have today, so.....the Earth does take care of itself...but it doesn't mean we should not think before we act.

I just don't think he worded himself right...he does that sometimes.

TANNER'S MOM replied:
Yes I am totally shocked!!! I might just frame this.. it warmed my heart!

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Well, they are both kind of the same thing in a way...but I wont get into that.

coasterqueen replied:
Yes, I think that is what confused me. I understand now.

coasterqueen replied:
Ooh, let me know if you ever do because I'm not sure how they would be the same thing. You've intrigued me now.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
At least you know what I meant!!

For the record - I know that Troy was and wasn't saying... i was just saying that people with that attitude..well, sometimes they just take things in life for granted, thinking they're almost above everyone else, because of their faith.. kind of like, they don't feel the rules necessarily apply to them because they feel like they have this divinity watching over them, protecting them, providing for them... and so they continue to live their life like they're top of the food chain..and that's all great and stuff, to be such a believer... but God don't pay the bills, won't keep your hydro from being cut off, and won't magically fill your fridge when the cost of everything goes up due to shortages in supplies and you have no money, ya know?

My wording sucks sometimes. Sorry!

Danalana replied: Oooooh, this is fun! You mention that God won't pay the bills, etc....
Well, it turns out that He does I have a friend who helps people out all the time. Like, she has paid others' electric bills before hers was even paid. Every single time, the money comes back to her somehow! I know that wasn't your point; I just wanted to talk about it (I know this smiley doesn't apply, but I really like it and have never used it. I've also had more than my normal consumption of caffeine!)

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Yes Dana....God works THROUGH others every day. Good example!

Karen, I would be more than happy to explain things like that with you if you ever want to PM me.

Hillbilly Housewife replied:

you GUYS!! lol

You get my point, that's good enough for me.

cameragirl21 replied: idk, Dana, some of us might call that karma, as in--what you put out there comes back to you threefold. As for their serving Jesus, since I am not a Christian, idk if I can really comment on that but I would say imo Mother Theresa served Jesus...the Duggar crew could do a lot for Habitat for Humanity but if they do, they keep it to themselves. I've never heard her mention taking her crew to a soup kitchen to feed the less fortunate, nor have I ever heard her mention any charity work of any sort or doing anything that would benefit the less fortunate in any way. To me, following a list of rules that may be bible based is not, in itself, serving any higher power but again that is jmo and as a non Christian, I recognize that I can't possibly know what it means to serve Jesus.
Btw, anyone here or anywhere has the right to judge them (or anyone) and form an opinion and let that opinion be known, any person has that right, that is the beauty of living in the USA. Those who feel otherwise should consider relocating to Cuba where speaking one's mind can land one (along with his/her entire family) in prison or six feet under. I was born in the former USSR, I know all about living in a police state and I'm grateful that is not the case here. Anyone who puts themselves on national tv invites these sorts of judgements and opinion forming...reality tv especially was created for that purpose. Doing 200 loads of laundry each month IS environmentally irresponsible and anyone has the right to say so. I think the Duggars have to know that the majority of the US will find them odd to a certain extent and will form an opinion based on what they see on tv. They are paid a certain amount of money so they accept a certain amount of scrutiny.
Btw, science is based on fact, not theory. To say otherwise would be to presume that none of us is male or female for certain, it's just theory. Also, it would mean that no one really knows for sure how babies get into a woman's womb, it's just theory. Hope no one believes that.
I'm with Rocky and Mollie on the importance of taking care of the planet, this is the only planet we have and I think we can't presume to serve any higher power, whichever you may believe in, if we don't take exceptional care of the planet that higher power gave us to live on.

jcc64 replied:

Ita, Jen! Well said. And kudos to all for playing nice in this thread. We've discussed some pretty hot-button issues with the ultimate civility. Hooray for us!

And hi, Jen! SO GLAD to have you back here again!

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Because as Christians we are not to boast about our works. Giving, donating, whether it be our time or money is suppose to be between us and the Lord. We don't do things to make people go "Ooo, that was so nice of you"...we do things to make God proud. It would be selfish to proclaim and boast about our good works, and doing things "in the flesh" is not appropriate according to His Word. Perhaps that explains it a little.

TheOaf66 replied: To go along with what Jennie was saying...if you are donating to charity, or habitat for humanity, etc just so you can say you do those things...you are not doing it for the right reasons.

A good example is awhile back there was a couple in the parking lot of our church, they were not members of the church or anything, I noticed they had a flat tire and were not making any progress. I stopped and helped them not because I wanted to say "I did a good thing today" but because I know what it is like to be in that situation. I believe a lot in the golden rule and being a good samaritan.

If you do these things just to boast how charitable you are then you are doing it for you and not the charity.

FYI-This was not directed at anyone, just wanted to differentiate between the two.

lisar replied:
Okay everyone here should know by now that I am not a religious person. But I have to agree with what Troy says here. If donating is something to brag about then your doing it for the wrong reasons. And this is not directed at anyone on here, I havent seen anyone brag for the record.

cameragirl21 replied: They seem to have no problem whatsoever boasting about their bible based parenting practices and beliefs. Also, I think it is possible to share one's charitable works without boasting but rather just as part of as part of a family activity. I've seen them travel in an RV, visit a pistachio farm, spray paint cars in the middle of nowhere, visit an ice skating rink but have never seen the family take an outing to a soup kitchen or something of the sort. It's not for me to say they MUST do charity but I guess I feel that this is lacking when someone says they strive to serve a higher power. jmo of course.
Ultimately, the Duggars will do whatever they want to do but anyone has the right to disapprove and vocalize that disapproval for any variety of reasons.

5littleladies replied:
I wouldn't say they are boasting about their parenting practices. Merely stating why you do something is not boasting in my book. As for the whole charity issue, I'm sorry but I don't think one has to contribute to charity (financially or physically) to be serving God. God has his own calling for each of us and that may or may not include working at a soup kitchen. I know in my case it doesn't. That doesn't mean I'm not looking for opportunities to help others, but it may not come across as visibly charitable to others. Who are we to say what the Duggars are doing behind the scenes?

And as far as God paying the bills , we have had many times when we were desperately praying for money for one reason or another and have had the exact amount we needed show up. I absolutely do not believe that is coincidence or karma or whatever people want to call it.

Crystalina replied:
TBH, who would want to watch the show if they were at a soup kitchen?

And I think they talk about the Bible teachings so much so people understand why they choose to live like they do, dress like they do and populate like they do.

luvmykids replied:
I agree 100%.

Just because I talk about my faith and beliefs doesn't mean I'm boasting about anything. I'm proud of my faith and it's role in my life and I talk about it because I can't not talk about something so big in my life

Whatever you call it, karma or reaping what you sow or what goes around comes around.....it's the same principle The name you use for it just depends on who you think is the source behind it.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
That isn't boasting in God's eyes, it's spreading the Word...another thing he calls Christian's to do.

holley79 replied:
I just look at it as spreading God's word which is what Christians are taught to do. I don't see it as boasting. They are only on TV for an hour and it's cuts up, how can anyone base if they do anything for charity by that? I'm pretty sure with his political background there were charities they were/ maybe still are involved with.

cameragirl21 replied: so...if spreading God's word isn't boasting, why is talking about any charity work you do boasting?
btw, Crystal, as to your saying, "who would want to watch the show if they went to a soup kitchen"...I would...I love watching people engage in random acts of kindness and I suspect certain people out there who question their principles would suddenly develop a great deal of respect for them.

PrairieMom replied:
The difference is in intent. When people talk about the good deeds they do they are looking for someone to say "wow! you are really great" or something along those lines. When Spreading God's words people are trying to have fellowship with other Christians or to introduce someone to Christianity.
It says right in the Bible that if you are going to do good deeds, then don't brag about it. ... well, I was paraphrasing a bit, I'm not up on my scripture.

Boy a Duggars thread really can go a lot of different ways!

cameragirl21 replied: what I was getting at is that they don't ever show them doing anything that even remotely qualifies as charity and yet they happily tell the world about their 200 loads of laundry and other actions that to many of us seem wasteful and excessive. I think it's fair to assume charity is not on their list of priorities or it would have at least been given some tertiary mention. Obviously, charity is not important for everyone but for some us, it is part and parcel of serving a higher power. That, along with being kind to the earth.
To each his own, obviously, but if I went on national tv to talk about my life I'd expect people to make judgments and opinions based on what they see, it's just human nature. And I'd have to expect some people not to be approving, that too is human nature.
Ultimately, the Duggars will do their thing...better them than me. They should thank God they didn't get a kid like me, I'd break them so fast they wouldn't even know what hit 'em.

luvmykids replied:
When I say "I'm a Christian" or "I volunteer", it's not bragging (boasting), it's telling people part of who I am, just like you'd say "I'm a photographer".

My3LilMonkeys replied:
JMO, but I think they do that because those are the things people wonder about. Seeing a family that size, I would imagine most people ask things like - how much laundry do you do, how much food do you cook, etc, because those are things unique to the size of the family. Whether or not they do charity isn't unique to the size of their family so it's not as much of an interest.

cameragirl21 replied:
This is my point exactly, Monica, thanks.

luvmykids replied:
I guess I'm confused What is it you think they're boasting about?

Maddie&EthansMom replied: Well, they do give money to their church. And for some I suppose that's enough. We give to whatever cause we believe in. Some believe in a cure for AIDS, some believe in a cure for Breast Cancer. Some believe in giving back to God. I don't see a difference. I suppose I could get angry with everyone for not paying tithes, or giving to Susan G Komen b/c those are causes I believe in. But when you pay tithes to your church that money goes to all kinds of charities and organizations. Most churches have their own soup kitchen and Meals on Wheels. I'm with Jennifer. I'm glad I'm not on TV so everyone can scrutinize how I spend every dime and what I feed my children.

cameragirl21 replied:
I didn't say they're boasting. I simply stated that while I'm not a Christian so it's not for me to know what it is to serve Jesus, I feel that one can't truly serve a higher power without a. engaging in charity and b. protecting the planet that higher power gave us to live on. Then someone said that if they mentioned any charitable work that this would be boasting and I said I don't see how that would be boasting.
Edited because hit enter when I didn't mean to--I think we've more than rehashed our thoughts on the Duggars...everyone will have a different opinion and the beauty of living in the free world is that we are all free to have an opinion and express it, as long as we don't engage in any sort of discriminatory behavior. When one goes on tv, one invites judgment and scrutiny, which is why so many of us shy away from these things and why others choose to be on shows like "wife swap" and "American Idol" etc. I suppose there are several ways to interpret what it truly means to serve a higher power, which is why there are so many different religions and houses of worship out there. Whether we agree or not, diversity is imo the spice of life and one factor that makes life interesting.

PrairieMom replied: Just wanted to add...


For playing nicely with others!!!


and Jennifer, its really good to have you back.

coasterqueen replied:
I guess I am really confused on why speaking of charitable work is boasting? Maybe some do that, but not all do that.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
I guess it really depends on HOW you talk about it. If you are casually talking about it, in order to get other people intersted then that is for the better good. But if you go up to a friend and just say "Hey, guess what I did today?", then that is boasting because you are looking for someone to oggle at you and put you on a pedestal. It really depends on the intent of why you are talking about it.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Here is another scenerio. Let's just say, by some miracle of God that Troy and I won the lottery of like 100 million dollars (I know, I'm dreaming ). One of the first things we would do is donate a sum of money to our church. Being that it is such a large sum of money, we would be giving it in private and would not want it advertised and would want the donation to be anonymous. Not just because people would be coming up to us for donations all the time , but because the focus is suppose to be on God, not about who was so gracious to give such an amount of money. To "want" the focus to be on us is boasting, when it should be focused on God. Not sure if that made sense, but that's the best I can do right now.