Organics...are they really that much better - for you?

Crystalina wrote: Ok, this is a question and not a statement so please don't tar and feather me. I've been hearing alot on here about organic this and that lately. Now the organic candy in another post. My question is is it really that much better for you then all the other stuff out there? The reason I ask is becuase I know that pure is good to an extent. For example lets say someone who uses hand sanitizer for everything and on everything. The "germaphobes" if you will. They are more in danger of getting sick from a germ then the average person because they have went to an extreme. Another is purebred dogs. Since I'm a yorkie breeder this is something we deal with. You can have a purebred dog but the more pure they are the sicker they get so once in awhile you have to throw in a dog with a less pure background to get the better and healthier genes.
I'm thinking, and I could be wrong, that organics are supposed to be more pure. Am I right or am I totally off here? I have no clue. If that is the reason (so you don't put unnessary toxins in your body) aren't you more apt to be unhealthy over the years?

gr33n3y3z replied: organic products have less or no chemicals in them vs. the same non organic products weither its grains to veggies to butter the best way for you to see is compare the dairy products mike,butter and cheese.

amynicole21 replied: Well, I've recently started to get organic eggs, milk and fruit. I am all for less hormones being fed to animals then being passed on to me, and I am freaked out by pesticides on fruits. Who knows if that stuff is REALLY bad for you, but you have to think that mother nature knows better than us how to do things, right?

Crystalina replied: That does make sense. But what about the fertilizers? I mean, with the recent ecoli spinach outbreak does this not freak you out? Would not putting pure manure on there make it less organic? and if so does that scare you (with the ecoli)?

::ETA::
We have our own free range chickens and I love the eggs but to have organic milk...does that consist of from the cow to the cup?

coasterqueen replied: I think there is a misconception about the whole ecoli break out. It was NOT just organic spinach...I think too many rumors are going around and not enough facts on that My MIL (who is totally organic), my boss (who is not) and many I know use horse manuere to fertilize their gardens and have NEVER EVER had any issues and still don't. I think there is a lot more to the recent outbreak than we know AND I've never seen any documentation as to it being caused by manuere. If you find some please send it to me.

Think of it this way. What are we doing to our world? Are we not destroying it? Because we are, slowly but surely. We took the girls to the museum this past weekend and Dh and I were both shocked to read about the different species of bugs, insects, and even things like dandelions that were "introduced" in the states for whatever reason and they shouldn't be here and have wreaked havoc ever since being introduced.

We were meant to eat our food NOT fertilized, we were intended to eat animals (meat) NOT injected by hormones. I could go on for days on this. So yes, I will say that organic is healthier for you and IMO safer. I could dig up all my college material about PCB's, etc that are in our waters, etc that have caused so many genetic defects in animals and how were are seeing it more in more in humans. We did extensive research on this in college. Course I was too naive then to really believe it. There are studies linked to the introduction of growth hormones in animals and why girls have their periods much earlier than they used to. Etc, etc, etc, etc.

Eating foods the way mother nature intended them to be eaten (naturally) can never be bad or unhealthy IMO.

What can unhealthy as far as organics are concerned is if the USDA relax the standards of what is organic as they already are. But it still will be healthier than not.

coasterqueen replied:
Most free-range chickens are still fed fertilized feed, therefore not organic.

Organic milk is from a cow that is raised on organic feed, non-fertilized grasses, no growth hormones, etc. The BEST organic milk is that non-pasturized and non- homongenized (sp?), but most people won't go that far. We get goats milk non-p and non-h. I haven't acquired the taste of that yet, but the girls and DH love it.

Crystalina replied: I hope it was easy to understand by my first post that I am merely asking about this because I am totally ignorant to the whole organic thing. I am not challenging anyone. Just to make that clear and I do not have proof of the ecoli outbreak being from organic spinach. I am only going by what I've heard on MSNBC.

I understand where that sounds like it would be good for you but I've also heard that it is a breeding ground for ecoli. Sorry... again with the ecoli. Also my question was do you find yourselves (not you inparticular but people who have lived like this for many years) healthier down the road? Again with the fact that your body has such a pure intake that your immune system is challenged?

mckayleesmom replied: Ok...My question. Again....not meant to offend anyone or anything like that. Im just curious.

What are the benifits of the hormons and chemicals they put in our food? Besides making the food look better?

I ask because although I know that alot of things factored into early death back in the day.....People didn't use chemicals and stuff in their food, fertilizer...etc.

People today live longer.....do you think there is a reason in there somewhere?

coasterqueen replied: No, I think I understand your post correctly. I just believe that we should get all the facts before assuming something was due to something else when we aren't for sure.

If you do research on non-p and non-h you will see it is very safe IF it's done correctly. We hope to someday get our own milk so it will be done with our hands and our "rules" and so we know it will be completely safe. BUT that being said, the lady who we get our goats milk non-p and non-h from has been researched by the state, is licensed, and we have not only visited her farm numerous times while she's done the milking, but so has MIL and she drinks her own goats milk. Come to find out after hours of conversation one day we are closely related as well. My MIL travels one hour each way to go get the milk for us every Friday.

Oh and health food stores, at least ours does anyway, caries some non-pasturized milk, but I think it's still homogenized.

And I can't tell you the answer to your last question only science can in time, but my IL's have been completely organic for over a year now. They lost so much weight going fully organic and no, they weren't eating less. I don't notice any difference in sickness with them or that they aren't healthier. They will tell you they are healthier.

As far as my family. When we go out to eat (not eating organic) we are usually sick to our stomach for days afterwards, more so now that we eat organic than before we did. We can tell a HUGE difference in our bowels (sorry TMI) when we don't eat organic and we don't feel normal. Course we are still stupid and go out and eat some. One of these days we'll get smart.

Crystalina replied:
I've read this post 4x and I'm not sure if you're asking if we may be living longer becuase of the chemicals that are added It's just one of those days.

coasterqueen replied:
Um, no we aren't living longer because of chemicals and stuff in our food. We are living longer because the medical community is finding more ways to fight things that back in the olden days they didn't have (technology that is).

Corn seed is genetically altered so that corn crops grow faster, turn brown (ready for harvest) at exactly a certain time, no joke, AND can fight off certain diseases/bugs, insects. My co-workers husband is a farmer and I'm thoroughly disgusted by what I've learned about how farming is these days. Crops are then also fertilized to deter certain events, insects, etc. All of this is so they can grow faster, harvest and yield more, and sell the corn to make money. Period.

This corn is then fed to animals, such as cows. Cows are also injected with growth hormones and other stuff so that they grow faster so they can be butchered quickly, therefore more meat to sell, more money. Plain and simple. Shouldn't cows grow at the rate they are supposed to? Not at a rate someone wants them to? SCARY to me.

If you could see what a package of hamburger looks like from the grocery store and what it looks like from an organic farmer you would throw up at the thought of ever eating grocery store meat again.

Why is it that organic fruit tastes heavenly compared to fertilized fruit? Because all that fertilizer kills the good in fruit. My kids could even tell you how organic fruit tastes a ton better than regular fruit. Shouldn't all fruit taste this way?

Why are eggs in the store white? Because they are bleached because it's prettier to the eye to see white eggs than brown eggs. Bleaching can't really be good, as well as all the fertilized feed chickens eat.

mckayleesmom replied:
LOL...sorry the question is confusing. I just mean BESIDES the fact that it makes the food look better...etc. Is there any added benefit to the chemicals they put in the food...Vitamins...etc.?

coasterqueen replied: BTW, I am not telling anyone that organic is better for them. I'm just giving the facts of what I've concluded from the research I've done for my family, and my family alone.

Believe me I thought my IL's were N U T S when they went organic and drank goats milk. I even told them that. Then they challenged us to do the research ourselves and we made our decision from there.

I'm not saying I'm better for my choices, either. I just ask everyone to do the research and decide what is best for them. KWIM? I still eat non-organic not-good-for-you food. We haven't been able to go completely organic and not sure we ever will. We are just making healthier choices for what we believe is better for OUR family.

amynicole21 replied: White eggs come from white chickens. Brown eggs come from brown chickens. They probably do bleach them to make them whiter and get the spots off of them too, but I just wanted to clear up that point.

coasterqueen replied:
Hmmm, good to know. I knew that eggs are bleached, but never thought about white or brown chickens. I'm confused now, I thought the lady we get milk from has both colored chickens and we always get brown eggs. I'm gonna have to ask her about this.

Thanks Amy for the clarification.

amynicole21 replied:

Who knew hens had earlobes??

coasterqueen replied:
Oh cool! I'm really going to have to take notice to this the next time I go visit our goat milk lady. Thanks for that Amy! That's actually very interesting and I learned something new.
ETA: I just saw you ETA and yeah, I had NO idea they had earlobes either.

Crystalina replied: Actually, 90% of commercial layers lay white eggs. I've never heard of them being bleached (although I'm not saying it hasn't been done) but I'm thinking if they are it's for cleaning but they don't need much cleaning because they do not stay in with the chicken. The egg rolls out of the cage immediatly.

TANNER'S MOM replied: Well this might be off topic.. but one reason the american farmer is adding these things to corn, beef etc.. is to make money. We have made me the farmer one of the lowest paid occupations in our country. He is fighting alot of over head to make a dollar. Crops are sell for what they did even 20 yrs ago. This man has to grow twice as much to feed his family, inflation as not been nice to him. He isn't making more but it cost more to live. But yet without him most people couldn't feed their families.

They sale cattle by the lbs. If you were in your pocket book..wouldn't you do what it takes to make your cattle weigh more..to get more for you money.

It's not right, but if the goverment helped subsides more farmers then this could all be change.

If less chemicals and less everything is done to the organic food.. why does it cost so much more. Shouldn't it be less..because it's less processed? That confuses me.

I have drank milk straight from the cow.. and I can't acquire a test for the creme..lol

You know I have raised my own animals. I have raised beef on straight grass and hay.. non fertiziled and non grain feed. To be honest I can't really tell the difference in that..and when I had the feed except of course they grow faster, they are eating more. Most small farmers aren't really doing the chemicals like the large operations. Yes what's in the feed, which I believe is relative. But most of your normal everyday cattle buyers aren't injecting cattle with huge amounts of steroids and chemicals..at least not here. The large ranch operations yes.. but the small farmer no.

No, do you not believe in fertiziling at all.. or only fertiziling with organic means. I mean back 100 yrs ago, they still fertiziled. They used rabbit, chicken,cow, horse manure. Back then nothing went to waste.. The difference today being what is feed to those animals that is in there waste???

Crystalina replied:
are you being seriouse or joking? I'm asking because that's like saying white milk comes from white cows and chocolate milk comes from brown cows.

Maybe my chickens are just weird but I've had many differant colored eggs come from my chickens. Maybe they are all inbred.

TANNER'S MOM replied: My store sells brown eggs as it does white. Most commerical growers use leghorns which are good layers and usually lay white eggs. They are cleaned.. I am not sure about bleached. If they have crap all over them they are washed, I am not sure if they involves a bleach or not.

I do like the chickens who lay colored eggs Crystalina. THey are my favorites. They pink and the greens.. my kids say we don't have to color eggs any more for Easter.

I don't have chickens anymore..cause they thought my porch was the nest.. but in a hen house I can stand them.. just not out..

amynicole21 replied:
ABSOLUTELY! Why are farmers and teachers paid so little when that is who we depend on the most??

Also, I bet it's more difficult to get organic feed because I'm sure they have to grow more because so much of it is eaten by bugs (due to no pesticides). Also, it doesn't grow as fast without chemicals. Just my theory anyway.

mckayleesmom replied:
I have always wondered why it cost more .

mckayleesmom replied:
Ok..that makes sense as to why it cost more.

coasterqueen replied: Mel,

I have to disagree about farmers fighting to feed their families because they are lower paid. At least in Illinois I have to disagree. Farmers here are SO WELL taken care of if their crops don't yield high or some other natural occurence causes it. I don't even have enough time to go on about the specifics of how the government (and I'm not sure it's just state government) helps these farmers. My co-workers husband is a small time farmer and he makes well more than enough money to sit around and do nothing the rest of the year that he isn't planting or harvesting and they buy all their vehicles outright. My co-worker simply works for the insurance, her money (and her salary is too die for) is all spending money.

MANY numerous farmers in our area are like that. Now, the small-time farmers around here will tell you it's the "corporate" farmers who are driving them out of business.

But like I said, this is just in our area and probably vastly different in others.

As far as fertilizing, I'm all for it, but natural fertilizers - not chemical.

ETA: For example, a co-worker of DH's didn't yield a great crop a couple of years ago so he applied for the assistance through the government that allows him and he made more off what the government gave him than he had made off good crops in years past.

Crystalina replied:
Yeah, me to! I don't get that at all.

mom2my2cuties replied: I don't know if this is really on topic or not - but coming from a medical/health stand point - A lot of farmers especially chicken also fill the animals with Antibiotics which tends to make our bodies less resistant to those medicines after we have eaten the meat filled with those.

coasterqueen replied:
It's actually pretty simple. Because less chemicals are used (as far as vegetables and such) it takes longer to grow and everything is done on smaller scale, so they have to charge more to make anything. As far as meat, takes longer to grow the animals when no chemicals are being used hence everything done on a smaller scale and they have to charge more.

Not sure if I'm making sense, but it's pretty simple as to why it costs more.

coasterqueen replied:
Not off topic and very true!

amynicole21 replied: Here's a (rather long) article about why organic food costs more.

bushel of reasons why organic food costs more than conventional food. Some of them:

- Organic produce, meat and dairy simply cost more to produce than their conventional counterparts. Limits on pesticides, for instance, mean more hand-weeding. They also mean farmers run a higher risk of losing all or part of a year's crop.

"There aren't as many tools in the toolbox to deal with pest outbreaks or diseases," said Nancy Creamer, director of the Center for Environmental Farming Systems at North Carolina State University.

Some of the things organic farmers can't use that conventional farmers can: Sewage sludge, which is cheap to buy, and chemical fertilizers, which are both cheap to buy and cheap to transport. Instead, organic farmers fertilize their land with compost and animal manure, which is bulkier and more expensive to ship, Creamer said.

While conventional farmers can use every acre to grow the crops that fetch the highest prices, organic farmers use crop rotation to keep their soil healthy. Instead of planting a cash crop on every acre every year, they rotate fields and plant "cover crops" that are plowed to improve the soil's nutrients for the long term.

"When you're rotating crops, you're not necessarily growing all your highest value crops all the time, which is different than a conventional system," said Catherine Greene, an agricultural economist at the USDA.

Organic feed for cattle and other livestock can cost twice as much as conventional feed, said George Siemon, CEO of the Organic Valley co-op, the largest organic farmers' co-op in the country. A ton of organic cattle feed can cost from $350 to $400 a ton versus $220 or less for a ton of conventional feed, he said.

Certifying food as organic also involves additional administrative costs.

-The demand for organic food is greater than the supply, Greene said. But she added "we don't have enough data to tease out how much (of the price difference) is due to higher-cost production versus the imbalance between supply and demand."

- Some of the cost difference comes from retailers, Siemon said, since some organic products don't sell as quickly as their conventional counterparts. "The retailer wants to make the same amount of money, per space," he said.

- Finally, organic farming proponents say conventionally grown food includes invisible costs, including a higher incidence of some cancers and other diseases in farm workers and their children and contamination of water supplies.

They argue that large corporate farms can make money on high volume and low prices, but those low prices have pushed millions of family farms into bankruptcy. Four million farmers have disappeared in the last 40 years, Siemon said.

"Farmers have seen organics as a glimmer of hope for their economic survival," he said. "They're trying to overcome bankruptcy pricing."

One tenant of organic farming is sustainability, he said. "Shouldn't that also be about economic sustainability?" Chef Alice Waters, a champion of locally grown and organic foods, justified one farm's $3 organic peaches to The New York Times.

"Maybe they'll make $5,000 more a year," she said. "Well, hooray. We're not making millionaires here. We're supporting sustainable agriculture.

By Ellen Simon, The Associated Press

Maddie&EthansMom replied: I'm just sitting back and letting Karen take this on You're doing a good job, Karen!

It costs more b/c there's less of it. It takes longer to raise organic cattle and chickens, etc.

TANNER'S MOM replied: Here is the deal with the farmers. ...in order to get the Goverment to subsides there farm and there land they have to allow the Goverment some say over what they farm and how much. Lets say I have 500acres and I want it farmed, I need a loan from the Goverment to get started.. They give me the loan at a low interest right etc.. then they TELL me what I can grow. I can grow 200 acres of rice and 100 of beans... but the rest of my land needs to stay unturned until the goverement okays my turning of that land... They say they don't want to over processes my land. SO I have grown what they say, and have done it the goverment way to pay back the loan from the goverment and try to make a small profit.

Alot of farms here, don't want to ask for the goverment hand out b/c then they have to do what the goverment says with there land. It's not as simple as a loan you just pay back at the bank.

Karen, I will say you are in the Mid-West which is the largest farm lands around for grains, corn and wheat. I am sure some have it good girl, but not all. And not here in the south.

I am a big supporter of Farm Aide...and they in turn do support the Organic Farmer the same as anyone else in need. I just happen to think the Goverment needs to make the rules and the issues of the American Farmer more known to everyone who pays for food. How many time have you went to the store and never once thought of where your taters come from..and how they got there.

With out our farms, then our country would change. It would effect everything from food, to transportation, to education.

coasterqueen replied:


Um, SCARY!

As far as the amount of farmers dying, I agree with this and is true with what Mel is saying, but there is more to certain areas this is happening to. Our here it's either the corporate farmers driving out the smaller ones, and to just point out our city alone, farmers are being driven out by rich people who offer them more money they can't refuse to make subdivisions. We are losing our farmland like crazy around here because of everyone leaving one part of the city to go live in a new subdivision that once was great farmland.

Crystalina replied:
Well Trish, we definatly give our chickens antibiotics, they all get it and the reason for that is because there are so many sickness they can get that we as the eaters of these chickens will not know about until we eat the chicken and get sick ourselves. The anitbiotics are in their feed and we start them on it from the time they hatch. It's one of those things where you can raise him without it and hope he's healthy at butchering time or give it to him and almost be certain he is. I'd rather eat a chicken who was kept heathly then a chicken that may be sick. kwim? With that bird flue crap going around especially. I don't want that stuff on my farm.

Tanner's Mom, we let our chickens run but they are in a field. I did that whole "let the chickens roam where they may" thing until they all wanted to roost on my porch. Try walking through chicken poo just to get in the house. That stopped as soon as it started. They have 5 acres to call their own.

coasterqueen replied:
I'm definitely not the Know-It-All here. I just know what I've read the past few months. We are a new "semi-organic" family and so we have a lot to learn. I learn a LOT from my wonderful, but crazy MIL. The farmers we buy meat, eggs and milk from are teaching us a lot too.

I knew a lot about what wasn't good for us before, but it took looking at my children and realizing the vast amount of fruits and vegetables they were putting into their bodies to make me open up my eyes, get smart, and realize what I was doing before wasn't good for them. I have to thank my children for the direction we've taken on a lot of things, actually. They are our future and they can't make our future better if we don't help to make theirs better.

TANNER'S MOM replied: Oh I am not making this a debate at all. I don't know enough about this at all.
I just don't want it to become farmers against farmers. I think Organic is great. I think back in the day everything was organic. Not in the way we think, but because Granny just put her chickens in the yard and they pecked around and laid eggs in the morning , then she made them for breakfast, fried in the pig lard, from the hog she grew..but still she lived to be 90..so there has to be something to that.

I just don't think the farmers are the enemy, maybe inflation, maybe cost of equipment( equipment charges could be 100,000 easy for one complete combine and accessories you need) maybe the goverment but not the farmers.

Society needs to demand the changes, but support our farmers as we do it.

Its about eating heathly like Karen does, not about the person doing the growing.

I am glad Karen makes that decision for her family. I haven't gone as far as she has, but with my diet I have went to less processed of course. She is right you do feel better. If I had a greasy cheeseburger I would fall over dead..lol

TheOaf66 replied: they are better for you, the only problem I have is some of the organics taste like crap. We use organic noodles for fettucinni alfredo and some other organics but I just can't sacrifice taste.

TANNER'S MOM replied:
I agree totally. It hurts my heart when I drive by a place that used to be acres of pasture with cattle grazing and suddenly I see the big tractors moving dirt.

They are paying the farmer more than he can make with his land and he is a bussiness man.. and I hate to see it.

coasterqueen replied: Mel,

Don't miss understand me please. If you saw my food journal you would see I don't eat completely "healthy". I'm too much of a sweet freak for that. Now Dh on the otherhand, is almost completely organic in everything he eats, except when we go out to eat. The man is nuts. I haven't gotten that nuts yet.

But we are very proud of ourselves when a complete meal is organic, from the meat, veggies, potatoes, gravy to the bread and butter. We are cooky about what we get excited about.

My kids still get McDonalds from time to time, they get candy that's not organic, etc, etc.

They will NEVER get non-organic fruit, veggies, meat, eggs or milk in our home though, anymore. That is a rule and will stay that way. We try to give them lots of other organic things as well, but we aren't completely organic.

What my MIL told me is this. If you are considering organics, go with fruits and veggies first, then meat, then eggs and dairy. After that anything else is icing on the cake. And that's what we have done. Anything other than fruits, veggies, meat, dairy, eggs, we buy organic as much as possible and if it's something we like but we don't stress about it if it's not. DH does, but I don't.

We are all human, we are not saints, and we will never be perfect and that includes what we eat. Course I try to be perfect.

ETA that this has been a fun conversation, but I have to bow out now. So you all can attack me why I'm gone. j/k. I'm off to an eye doc appointment and then to spend the afternoon with the two most beautiful ladies in my life.

Crystalina replied: so, back to my original question (more or less) do you think you are healthier now then you were growing up? Do you think that what your parents fed you was horrible? I mean, what are the health benefits? Better blood pressure, heart? I'm sure it's better for your weight but does it drastically improve your health or are some people doing it because it's something differant? Not saying you at all and I know you said you are only semi-organic now. Do you think your kids are healthier now then you were at their age?

I'm sorry to push all the questions towards you but you are the only one answering the posts so...

TheOaf66 replied:
The way I see it, you're going to die anyway so eating grass and wheat germ and tofu will get you another couple years but there are disadvantages to that.

1. You live longer in a nursing home crapping yourself and not knowing who you are

2. You get hit by a bus and die young anyways

I say enjoy life and God will take you when he is ready and it is your time. In the words or Ron White..."I did not graduate to the top of the food chain to eat carrots"

I know I have a funny way of looking at life sometimes

coasterqueen replied: Ok, I really have to leave but I'll answer your quickly Crystal. Am I healthier, are my children healthier than I was at their age? I can't answer that. We've just begun our journey with organics. Do I hope we are, they are? YES, of course.

Is a person who quits smoking now, healthier years from now? We hope. I know I'm healthier now than I was when I smoked. Cigarettes carry carcinogens (sp?) - they are bad for you. If you do extended research on pesticides, PCBS for sure, are BAD for us. So why wouldn't we be healthier later for taking them out of our diet now? What about the person who cuts out twinkies and coke out of their diet now? Do you think they will be healthier later in life? We like to think so, don't we. Everything in life is a gamble.

We do what we can to lead the healthiest life we can, WITHOUT medical intervention. We shouldn't go through life thinking we can do what we want to our bodies because "oh, medical intervention will always be there for us". Granted I'm glad it is there for us and will use it when necessary. But should I continue to smoke even though I know it's bad for me because the medical community will be there to help my body when it's dying? No.

I just can't give you a simple answer to the questions you are seeking answers to. I ask that you do some more research on organics and make the conclusions yourself.

ETA I have lots of spelling and grammatical errors in this. Sorry, I was typing fast.

coasterqueen replied:
Oh wow. I won't say anything to this because I fear it may seem as an attack.

In good conscience I won't be able to bring my children up like this, though.

amynicole21 replied: I've always looked at the growing cancer rate in our society. Is it getting worse because we are just better at detecting it now, or that people aren't dying first from stuff we never had medicine for before? Or is it due to all of the garbage we are putting into our bodies? I think that it will take a long time to un-do what we've done to ourselves as a species, if it can ever be done.

TheOaf66 replied:
don't worry Karen, I am just trying to be funny, I don't really have a feeling either way, each person has to decide what is right for them and as I told you before, don't worry about "attacking" or "offending" me...pretty hard to do

A&A'smommy replied: wow this is very interesting and it has definitly lead me to want to persue organics, I haven't wanted to for over a year but haven't done it yet..
anyway thanks for all these interesting facts on both ends!!!

coasterqueen replied:
So true and same goes for the damage we've done to this earth in general. Unfortunately I don't think some damage can be reversed and what can I don't think we will see in our future. The key is to help make it better for future generations, our children, their children, etc.

ETA: ok, I'm going now. I really am.

Crystalina replied: I understand the whole smoking thing. I felt better when I stopped and even though I still crave them at times I will never go back.



I understand what you are saying but really besides turning into one (an organic eater) all I can really do is ask others who are doing it. kwim? I would rather hear it from people who are actually doing it then read about it.

Now get outta here...you're gonna be late.

Boo&BugsMom replied:
Isn't the meat we get from that gal an organic raised farm?

TheOaf66 replied: yes that is why I said "some" of it tastes that way

mckayleesmom replied:
Just have to pop in here and say....I love Ron White...

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Very interesting post.

I read a while ago on how hormones injected in cows, then later those cows are used for their milk... ws linked to the earlier and earlier puberty for children, lowering the average for menstruation at around 13 down to about 9 or 10, among other things. We buy organic milk, and we buy mostly organic meats now too...but I don't get upset or refuse to buy it if it's not.

As for eggs and other dairy like cheese and yogurt, we go through so MUCH of it that it's not financially feasible to go strictly organic, not at this point anyways. I did the price differences... right now we spend just under 500$ a month to ffeed me, dh and 3 children. The budget has gone up to about 650$ when I started daycare, with the 2 extra kids, and I notice I tend to buy better healthier foods to feed them, instead of grilled cheese sandwiches, they'll get a deli-ham sandwich, or instead of pretzels for a snack, they'll have canteloupe or something. And we have been buying pre-packaged stuff for zach to be able to take to school in his lunch, hassle free... like molasses cookies or something. Yeah I could probably just make them and send them in a container... but I don't want the hassle, I got enough to do already.

We do grow some of our food... but it's not nearly enough that we never have to buy any again. But for stuff like dried beans... we buy them dry, then I grow sprouts from them, with the kids...apparently bean sprouts are about 30x more filled with vitamins etc than the dried beans are... and the kids love to eat them since they grew them. We use them in just about anything... I've even made muffins with them.

ETA: like today, we had pasta with tomato sauce - the 5 tomatoes I used were tomatoes from my mom's garden, the garlic was store bought, and spices were store-bought... the parsley was from my garden, as was the basil. Mushrooms were canned... lol But the tomatoes were incredible. Firm, not too juicy, and cut really well...unlike stor-bought ones that are way too mushy and nothing but juice and seeds come out when you squish them..i mean when you cut them.

We don't eat lots of pre-packages stuff here though, at all. Most of the food we eat at home is cooked from scratch. I so get the organic stuff though if the prices are comparable... because just as money drives a lot of the farmers, money drives my grocery basket...

One thing I do love though, are organic chips. I don't remember the name right now of the type I buy when I do... but they're blue.

mom2my2cuties replied:
You said it sister!!!!!

Crystalina replied: I've been thinking about this thread and what I don't get is this...why would you eat organic food but then buy "regular" food when the organic either too expensive (financially feesable) or you can't find it or you still go to McDonalds? Wouldn't that be like I'm not a smoker but when I go out on the weekends I am? kwim? If your doing the organic thing for a reason don't you just throw all that reason out the window when you stray away from it? And if so then why do it at all?

3_call_me_mama replied: I don't have much to add as karen and others have about summed it up. I find that organic stuff tastes SOOOO Much BETTER> Never had that nasty pasta Troy was talking about! But healthier things dont' always appeal to our taste buds if they are used to things masked with chemicals,sweeteners,etc. Bread for example, even non organic bread but whole grain all natural, without all teh added crap tastes SO much different and better than regular bread. BUT if you are used toe eht sweet taste that it has normally it will take a while to get used to the new taste, but onc ce you get used to it you will not necessarily liek teh old stuff anymore. (Since most bread,even 100% whole wheat ones have high fructose corn syrup in them and therefore make them sweeter adn less healthier than other versions. ) So it's not just organic that is the issue for a lot of people. Organic is free of the pesticided, chemicals and addititves that other food have, but there are also requirements for growing adn storing conditions. Free range eggs (as someone has already said) are not necessarily any better for you than store bought regualr eggs. ESPECIALLY if the hens are fed partially on regular feed and are given antiobiotics. Those things STILL get into their systme and to teh eggs. (Like Crystal said about being a weekend smoker... it's still tehre even if only occasionally)
As far as occasionally eating somethgin that is not organic or somethign from McDonalds well back to that smoking example.... ever less cgarette you smoke is better for your health, so NOT smoking most of the time is still better than Smoking all teh time. ADN eating mostly organic is better (for your body) then not eating organic at all.
I know that probably doesn't make much sense after teh chicken example, but i just wanted to clarify that free range wasn't necessarily organic~ it's just better for the chickens (to be cage free) Also whenwe switched ot organic we didn't have toi totally give up regular food or boxed stuf but we did give up certain ingredients.
1) aftificial colors and flavors (food dyes as Cameron is allergic and once i read where some of these "aftificial flavors" came from I refused to eat them or feed them to my kids)
2)high fructose corn syrup (we avoid it whenever possible~ but sometimes we end up eating somethgin that has it in it. Liek if we are at someoen elses house)
3)Hormones in meat/chciken (we buy local grass fed organic meat whenever possible but sometiems get it from the store)

The biggest thing that we try for is that I can control what my family eats IN our home. I cannot make my friends and family eat teh way we do so therefor i try to limit the amount of times we eat elsewhere. (Liek BBQ's etc, we bring what we eat) We avoid McDonalds for several reasons, mainly cause it's just not good for you but the kids do get food occasionally from there (maybe once every 1-2 months or so). Al their snacks are organic or all natural ( yes there is a difference and sometiems i cannot afford the the organic version so the lesser of the evils would be the all natural with no preservatives etc rather than the conventional food).
Also I have learned a ton from local organic farmers and through our CSA about what the actual requirements are and how to maximize teh benefits. And when grocery shopping it is best ot shop the outside of the store (with teh exception of the frozen veggie section if you buy them) Basically if you avoid the middle chunk of aisels in most major grocery stores you avoid all teh processed crap and things that you could make from scratch cheaper! Saves time and $$ when shopping!
Sorry that go tlong!

Crystalina replied: Carrie, you've touched on many of the questions I was having and you have many good point. Thank you for that.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: Lol Crystal - a weekend smoker... I WAS a weekend smoker!! Ha!

Actually I only smoked around my mom. But I've quit since almost one whole month now.

Crystalina replied:
Congratulations Rocky!! I smoked from 17 to the age of 28. I quit only because I found out I was pg. I started again after I had Izabella. I used to go outside and stand in the yard and smoke and I remember one time she was in her walker and scooted over to the window and started hitting the window babbling to me and I started cooing at her from the outside of the window and I thought to myself...WTH am I doing. Am I going to talk to her through the window whenever I want a cig? I also smoked Virginia Slim Menthol and they were long so they weren't a 2 minute cig. I decided right then and there I was done.

luvmykids replied: Crystal, I'm not convinced to go all out organic but I buy what I can when I can for two reasons:
One is the taste, especially dairy stuff. The organic milk and yogurts, cheeses, etc are just out of this world. I really can't eat "regular" stuff any more in that department just because my taste buds have been spoiled

The other reason is the trans fats, a lot of the organic stuff I buy is snack type stuff for the kids, I figure if they're going to chow down all day long the least I can do is try to make a dent in the amount of "junk".

I probably won't ever go all out organic but the things I've tried I loved and will probably stick to. I figure it may not be enough to be life altering but at least it tastes good and eating some truly good for you stuff is better than none, right?

MoonMama replied:
Germaphone here. What are trying to say? Kidding


I don't know a lot about oragnics but I do try to eat somewhat organic, above all, like Monica says the taste is that much better.

jcc64 replied: late to the party, as usual. Lots of good points already raised, and for the most part, I'm with Karen on this one. Back to Crystal's original question about whether eating organic and not exposing yourself to all of the damaging chemicals and pesticides somehow leaves you more vulnerable to disease. I believe your analogy about germaphobes depriving their immune systems the opportunity to build immunities is not applicable in this instance. The reason is- germs are organic- they have always been around and they always will. Our bodies are equipped to deal with them, and allowing ourselves to be exposed to some germs now and then does allow our immune system to build necessary immunities. Pesticides, chemical additives, and other harmful, synthetic crap is not, and never will be, something our bodies are equipped to process. So, unless I have understood your whole premise wrong, I think it's completely ludicrous to think that eating all of those man made chemicals is in any way shape or form going to improve your health. As already stated, those processes and chemicals have been added to our food supply for one reason only- profit. It allows for less waste of food from bugs, more milk production than is naturally feasible in a normal, unadulterated cow, longer shelf lives for fragile vegegtables, and on and on and on. Study after study after study has proven the dangers of this chemical or that, and yet, the farm lobby and the FDA time and again has prevailed over what's in the best interest of our health. While I sympathize with small, family farmers(no doubt a dying breed), big agriculture is very well protected by subsidies and the gov't. Too much so, imo. I'm not against farmers, I'm against people adulterating food that I want to feed my family for profit, even if it's been established that it's inherantly unhealthy. And I also think it's sad that only those with money can afford to make the more healthful choice to go organic.
Once again, as always in this country, the almighty dollar prevails. We get what we ask for and what we demand, unfortunately. None of these ecoli outbreaks should be surprising. What's surprising is that it doesn't happen more often.
And fwiw, feeding antibiotics to poultry will not prevent bird flu. Bird flu is a virus, and antibiotics are completely ineffective in treating viruses.

Crystalina replied:

You can plainly see by my quote that I was not saying anything as fact but merely asking a question. I've also stated in this thread that I am totally ignorant (meaning uneducated) when it comes to this topic. I respect your post but I do not think it had to come across as it did.

Crystalina replied:
Thank you. I may have been misinformed and will look into that a bit more.

jcc64 replied: I am having some issues with copying quotes from other posts for some reason. So, it's a little more difficult for me to point out how I came to interpret your post as I did. But, in the op, you made reference to germaphobes being more vulnerable to illness because of their avoidance of all germs and illnesses, and posited about whether this could be true of organic food eaters as well. If I misconstrued your analogy, which I acknowledged at the outset was a possibility, I nonetheless apologize. I never intended to make you feel badly, which clearly I have. I attempted to share my very strong feelings on the subject, just as everyone else had, and somehow my tone just came across wrong. My bad. Sorry, Crystal.

Crystalina replied:
The reason I used the "germaphobe" example is because with my own personal contact with germabphobes I see that they are kind of sickly. My sister for example is a germ freak and she is constantly cloroxing everything, her kids hate to get so much as their hands dirty (she has 7 kids and only one is a girl so you'd think there would be dirt somewhere ) but she has always freaked about dirt, germs...anything like that. Her house is like a hospital waiting room (she is an RN her DH is a doc and he is very very much a germaphobe). Because of this her kids are very pale and always have runny noses and colds. My kids (which because we aren't speaking now she calls dirty ) are allowed to play on our farm, get dirty, touch animals and at the end of the day they get their baths and have only been sick a couple of times between them. My kids are never sick and besides the hand sanitizer (which I do use because of the farm animals) they are normal everyday kids. My sis is just an example. I know a few more "germaphobes" and the sickness' and paleness seem to be the norm with the ones I know. Anyway, that is what I meant by that and I was just asking if anyone knew of or has known anyone who has had a weaker immune system because of an organic diet. I wasn't sure if the "pureness" of the food would be similiar to someone who tried to make their outside surroundings pure.

That's ok, no need to apologize. You had just used the word "ludicrous" and that kind of got my guard up. You didn't make me feel badly just that I had to defend my post. I don't take too many things to heart.

ashtonsmama replied: We'll only do organic here, we're Whole Foods/Whole Paycheck people!

I just believe that the less toxic pesticides and un-natural things in your body, the better.

KWIM?