OPRAH yesterday - jenny macarthy
boyohboyohboy wrote: did anyone else see this show yesterday?
I know that vaccinations can become a hot topic here on the boards, but this show yesterday was very interesting.
she has a son, evan who she felt after having his two yr mmr, started to show signs immediately of autism. she and another star, i cant remember her name, were saying how they felt it was linked to the mmr shot.
they had a web site set up to talk directly to them yesterday.
now of course that I have a child due for the mmr and 2yr vaccination in a few weeks, this show has really sparked my attention.
i just wondered if anyone else saw the show, and what you thought
lovemy2 replied: I had the MMR split up for Olivia and will also for Dylan - from what I understand it has something to do with the combination of the three shots together - they CAN be split up -
There is also the issue of mercury as a preservative in vacs - the buildup of the mercury in a child's system can cause autism like symptoms - and I think autism but don't know that is a fact to be honest - there isn't SUPPOSED to be mercury used as a preservative in vacs anymore but I still ask my Ped to show me the bottle the vacs will come from to be sure........I think it shows up around that age cause it has enough time in those two years to build up - don't quote me on all this stuff its what I have spoken to other people with more experience in it -
There is a study out of I think England about the link between the MMR and 2 years old but they can't determine for sure if its the MMR shot because the shot is given at 2 years and its pretty classic for autistic symptoms to show up around age 2 also...
PrairieMom replied: I watched it, and it really stuck with me when I took Al in for her shots today. I refused the chicken pox vac. today. The Doc was kinda like Okaaayyyy.....
but what ever. my Mommy intuition told me to hold off.
Al got her first MMR at 12 months, and they gave it to her 3 days to early last time, they told me that I would have to re-do it, and I flat out told them no way.
Vacc. my kids freaks me out anyway, and watching that show yesterday was really weighing on my mind.
boyohboyohboy replied: so just for my own info, do kids by the age of 2 already have an mmr vaccination? is this not his first one? (without looking it up i dont know)
and it was said yesterday, by the cdc that its the thirmasol that they feel might be contributing to it, is that mercury?
if its a single dose vial, meant only for one person use, does it contain the perservative?
and each individial shot then does not contain a perservative?
I think it is two different issues - again don't quote me - I am going from a) a friend whose child had the symptoms from too much mercury in his system and what I have read and talked to my Ped about
so issue ONE is the combination of the MMR together causing autism - which I understand has not been proven because MMR or not autism symptoms appear around age 2 and TWO mercury being used as a preservative in vacs - here is one thing I found that kind of explains it in layman's terms (which I know I need )
"You have probably seen your nurse insert a syringe into a large vial, extract some liquid, and then leave a substantial amount of vaccine in the original container. If you've witnessed this seemingly benign procedure, you've seen how vaccine manufacturers are saving money at the expense of public health. In order to store larger amounts of vaccine at a lower cost, companies began offering "multi-dose units" while adding preservatives to prevent contaminations. That way doctors can open and close a vaccine container, inviting germs into the once-sterile solution, while assuring the public that those contaminants are quickly killed by the preservative.
Sound familiar? It's the same story of corporate America's love affair with preservatives. It saves them money, while posing an undue risk to your health. But like many toxic preservatives found in food, a vaccine preservative kills more than just bacteria and fungi; it can lead to extensive neurological damage in your children, and has even been implicated in autism.
Thimerosal is the preservative of choice for vaccine manufacturers. First introduced by Eli Lilly and Company in the late 1920s and early 1930s, the company began selling it as a preservative in vaccines in the 1940s. Thimerosal contains 49.6 percent mercury by weight and is metabolized or degraded into ethylmercury and thiosalicylate. Mercury, or more precisely, ethylmercury, is the principle agent that kills contaminants. Unfortunately, mercury also kills much more than that.
The Department of Defense classifies mercury as a hazardous material that could cause death if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin. Studies indicate that mercury tends to accumulate in the brains of primates and other animals after they are injected with vaccines. Mercury poisoning has been linked to cardiovascular disease, autism, seizures, mental retardation, hyperactivity, dyslexia and many other nervous system conditions. That's why the FDA rigorously limits exposure to mercury in foods and drugs. Some common sources of mercury include dental amalgam fillings, various vaccines and certain fish contaminated by polluted ocean waters.
The toxicity of mercury has never been in question. The real question is precisely how much mercury-laced thimerosal is toxic, and what are the possible consequences for our children at low doses?
Eli Lilly and Co. supposedly answered this question for us back in 1930. Concluding thimerosal to be of "a very low order of toxicity . . . for man," the company hired its own doctors to perform thimerosal experiments in Indianapolis City Hospital on meningitis patients during a severe outbreak in 1929. This 60-year-old evidence was still quoted on the company's brochures as recently as 1990. Andrew Waters, who is involved in a lawsuit against Eli Lilly, claims that most critical studies on the toxicity of thimerosal were suppressed by the company until now.
Banned around the world, but not in the United States
That might explain why thimerosal was eliminated in many countries 20 years ago. In 1977, a Russian study found that adults exposed to ethylmercury, the form of mercury in thimerosal, suffered brain damage years later. Studies on thimerosal poisoning also describe tubular necrosis and nervous system injury, including obtundation, coma and death. As a result of these findings, Russia banned thimerosal from children's vaccines in 1980. Denmark, Austria, Japan, Great Britain and all the Scandinavian countries have also banned the preservative.
Eli Lilly stuck to its "scientific" facts, but the truth began slipping between the cracks in 1999. After the number of immunizations rose to 12 to 15 per child, the public finally became privy to the possible dangers of thimerosal. One 1999 study revealed that some infants, due to a genetic or developmental factor, lack the ability to eliminate mercury. Trace amounts of mercury in these infants, when accumulated over several vaccines, could pose a severe health risk. Some vaccines, such as vaccines for hepatitis B, contained as much as 12.5 micrograms of mercury per dose. That's more than 100 times the EPA's upper limit standard when administered to infants.
Hepatitis B vaccines aren't the only immunizations under suspicion. According to Burton Goldberg in Alternative Medicine, scientists are finding stronger and stronger links between thimerosal and neurological damage. One report by Dr. Vijendra Singh of the Department of Pharmacology at the University of Michigan found a higher incidence of measles, mumps and rubella vaccine (MMR) antibodies in autistic children.
The National Vaccine Information Center in Vienna, Virginia, has noted a strong association between the MMR vaccine and autistic features. Reporting similar findings, the Encephalitis Support Group in England claims that children who became autistic after the MMR vaccine started showing autistic symptoms as early as 30 days after vaccination. The diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus vaccine (DPT) given at two, four and six months has triggered autistic symptoms, as well.
When the FDA finally formally released this information in 1999, the news came too little too late for some parents. The damage had already been done.
Links between autism and thimerosal
Autism affects 500,000 to 1.5 million Americans and has grown at an annual rate of 10 to 17 percent since the late 1980s. California found a 273 percent increase in autism between 1987 and 1998. Maryland reported a 513 percent increase in autism between 1993 and 1998 and several dozen other states reported similar findings. Some scientists say the estimated number of cases of autism has increased 15-fold –1,500 percent – since 1991, when the number of childhood vaccinations doubled. Whereas one in every 2,500 children was diagnosed with autism before 1991, one in 166 children now have the disease.
This increase in reported autism cases eerily parallels the increase in the number and frequency of thimerosal-containing vaccinations administered to infants. As of today, children are given as many as 21 immunizations in the first 15 months of life. After a number of scientists and concerned activists noticed the correlation, an investigation was launched to get to the heart of the matter.
"Statistical evidence links thimerosal with nervous system disorders
In June 2000, federal officials and industry representatives were assembled by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to discuss the disturbing evidence. According to Tom Verstraeten, an epidemiologist who had analyzed the data on the CDC's database, thimerosal appeared to be responsible for a dramatic increase in autism and other neurological disorders. Verstraeten told those at the meeting that a number of earlier studies indicate a link between thimerosal and speech delays, attention-deficit disorder, hyperactivity and autism.
Verstraeten offered no possible cause for this correlation, but held that the statistical evidence linking vaccines and neurological disorders was strong. Dr. Bill Weil, a consultant for the American Academy of Pediatrics, and Dr. Richard Johnston, an immunologist and pediatrician from the University of Colorado, presented similar concerns to the group. However, given no causal relationship, the CDC and industry representatives were quick to discredit the evidence.
Consequently, the CDC paid the Institute of Medicine (IOM) to conduct another study on thimerosal. According to Robert F. Kennedy Jr., this study was fixed in order to "whitewash" previous findings. In its 2001 report, the IOM's Immunization Safety Review Committee did conclude that the link between thimerosal and neurodevelopmental disorders was biologically plausible, though the evidence neither proved nor negated it. The Committee stated that phasing out thimerosal from vaccines was “a prudent measure in support of the public health goal to reduce mercury exposure of infants and children as much as possible.” However, these findings offered no imperative. The data presented at the 2000 meeting was withheld from publication and the link between thimerosal and autism remained "inconclusive."
But what does "inconclusive" mean? Well, that depends on who you talk to. According to the FDA, these "inconclusive" findings negate the risk of a causal relationship between thimerosal and autism. Even Tom Verstraeten, one of the presenters of epidemiological evidence at the CDC meeting, seemingly changed his tune a bit. In 2000, Verstraeten vigorously campaigned against thimerosal based upon his "inconclusive" correlation, but after he was hired by GlaxoSmithKline, the doctor changed his position. The same evidence from 2000, in Verstraeten's eyes, became "neutral" in 2003. After criticism for this apparent flip-flop, Verstaeten wrote a letter to the editor of Pediatrics in 2004 backing the CDC's actions and his own research methods. "
A lot to digest - for me - I always ask to see the container so I know it is a single dose vacs and I split up the MMR - my Ped has come to accept my craziness very gracefully I have to add - he applauds me for being educated even if it takes more of his time - he gives it graciously
this is totally how i feel right now. i cant stop thinking about how she said he was fine, and then showed the pics after the shots, of how he changed.
and they hinted that there are some kids that they think are just prone to this response more, and i cant help but think that jake has been so sick most of his life, and might be more prone to something like this.
i think i am going to ask to have it split up for sure, and ask about the single dose vials, but i do think they are at least that...but right now i dont want him to have it..thats my first mommy instinct. to run away...
i have a few weeks yet to get more info.
i just wondered what every one else thought who saw the show.
PrairieMom replied: Every time I vacc my kids I wait for that blank expression to come over their faces. I know I am freaking out over nothing, but I get wound up over things really easily.
She had her shot at 10, and is napping, I can't wait for her to wake up so I can make sure there is still a sparkle in her eyes. It will bother me for a few days.
It is a very hard decision but for me - I couldn't stand the thought of one of my kids getting one of these diseases because I didn't vax them because I was too afraid of the symptoms - that being said - autism is a very scary thing but there is no REAL proof that any of these things "cause" it so to speak it is all speculation so for now for me - I split it up and check the vials
coasterqueen replied: THis has always been my complaint against the MMR shot. They say if you are going to do it then have it spread out (the M - M - and the R - three different shots) BUT my understanding is they should be spread out over years, not months to be safely effective.
I tried to get docs in this town to split them up and I couldn't find a single doctor. I even offered to pay whatever the price was to have them split up and no go.
Anthony275 replied: i saw this in people magazine back in may, this girl had no signs until the shot, then after the shot she wouldn't respond to her name or anything
I was wondering about this too, I have to ask the dr about all this, I printed the topics here today...
but I am not sure what I will say if they refuse to split it up.
doesnt the school require that they get this shot?
punkeemunkee'smom replied: Contrary to popular belief you can refuse any shot and still enroll your child in public school. You can refuse on religious grounds (some vaccines carry human blood protein,some are grown in aborted fetal tissue and carry the DNA markers from those babies) and there is also an objection of conscience that you can request and fill out for your child's school. If there is an outbreak of Whooping Cough or Chicken Pox your child can be told to stay home BUT it can not count against their attendance record and it is only done by order of the state NOT something schools can do arbitrarily...
jcc64 replied: You also have the option of delaying the shot until your child is much older, which is what I did. I figured it would give their immune systems a little more time to mature, and I would also have a clearer understanding of their social and cognitive abilities at an older age. Corey didn't have her first MMR until she was about 4.5, and she just got the booster a few weeks ago (which is required by NY state). As Abbie said, you can refuse shots on any number of grounds and still be admitted to public school. It's not uncommon around here.
You're right to question the safety. I really don't know what to believe anymore. The only thing I know for certain is that we're all basically on our own with this decision. There's misinformation, rhetoric, and dogma on both sides, and unfortunately, you can't necessarily trust your dr's opinion either. The pharmaceutical companies have a well established history of burying inconvenient information. As I've pointed out here before, I know a physician who is employed by a drug company whose job it is to "interpret" data favorably for the manufacturer. To me, that sounds criminally punishable, but it's perfectly acceptable ,apparently. I don't know how these people sleep at night, but the lack of a conscience will let you do just about anything, I guess.....
Oops, didn't mean to go off like that. Sorry
boyohboyohboy replied: i find this whole topic just unbelievably scarey.
I mean we protect our kids from so much, and trust our dr's. well at least I do trust my ped. but now on this subject, its not as clear as i would like.
and wonder why the peds get so upset when you question this topic?
Hmmm - never thought about delaying it - that is a good idea and I may do that instead of splitting it with Dylan - isn't autism more prevelant with boys than girls? I am more fearful of this MMR with Dylan than I was with Olivia....
luvmykids replied: I didn't see the show but a friend of mine brought it up this morning. I admit I got freaked out because guess where we went this morning....to get vaccinations.
I haven't done enough research to have a strong opinion on anything other than I wish I'd done more research
My mom has a friend whose son is autistic...I didn't know until my mom and I were talking today that her friend absolutely equates it with his vaccinations. She said the same exact thing as Jenny McCarthy, that you can look at his "before and after" pics and it's two totally different kids I know this mom fairly well, she is a level headed person who doesn't fall prey to every health scare out there. The fact that she strongly attributes vaccinations to her sons changes carries some weight with me. I know the chances are slim but it made me think about it all day.
Money also soothes many a conscience twinge I suppose....
I also want to point out that just because they have stopped putting Mercury in vaccines to preserve them,there may still be doese available and used that have mercury in them until (depending on the vaccine) 2010 by some estimates so just thinking or being told they are mercury free is not good enough yet.
Maddie&EthansMom replied: http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200709...?promocode=HP11
This has some information on autism and vaccines as well as what was discussed on the show (for those who missed it).
A&A'smommy replied: okay I actually had to STOP reading some of this because I'm starting to freak out a little... we didn't split up shots with alyssa but I think with this child we are definitly going to. Its just WAY too scary
My2Beauties replied: When I got all of Hanna's shots there wasn't a doubt in my mind about vacs, I mean her doctor says they're required right...so I trusted them. Now Hanna is nearly 4 and there isn't anything wrong with her and she had all her shots on time as suggested by her ped. I don't know about the MMR though, I can't remember if she got that or not. i'll have to check her immunization cert when I get home, but I don't remember getting the MMR until I was much older....like Jeannie said. With Aubrey, she's had her 2 month and 4 month shots already and no side affects, but these are the DTep or whatever it's called, I don't know. Deptheria, Pertussis......etc. But with this MMR ordeal now I'm going to have to think about it a little bit. I don't even remember Hanna getting the Chicken Pox vaccine, is that really new? Gosh, see how uneducated I was about it - I mean I just trust my doc ya know. But this truly scary to read about and is definitely going to make me have them split up the MMR and question the Chicken Pox vaccination. I got chicken pox as a kid and I'm fine.
This is the mentality that gets us in trouble, IMO. You can't say "I did this when I was little and I'm fine". I didn't ride in a car seat as a child, I didn't wear a seatbelt, and I rode in the back of a pickup truck alot as a kid and I'm fine and still here BUT STILL it doesn't mean those were right things to do.
As we have all learned throughout our lives, science changes, facts change, etc, etc - we find out that things we used to do aren't safe to do now. The world is changing all around us. Our environment is constantly changing, everything is - which means things we do, things we eat/drink, etc have to be considered all the time.
The reason eyes have been opened to the MMR shot is because of the increasingly alarming number of children who have developed autism not too long AFTER receiving the MMR. They took the mercury out of the shot - there obviously was some evidence to make this happen. Now, I'm not saying whatsoever that the MMR is completely linked to those who have developed autism. What I'm saying is that due to our ever changing environment and the world around us things that were safe for us before may not be safe now - including the make-up of the MMR shot.
I mean there are people who go their entire lives smoking cigarettes and don't die because of it. That doesn't mean they are not bad for you. Our bodies handle things differently. What one body can handle - the make-up of someone else's cannot.
People need to keep their eyes open and realize there MAY be a correlation here between the two things - MMR and autism. There also may NOT be a correlation, but we can't discount it completely, not yet. But considering the fact that big business and government is involved these things could take YEARS before anything is determined and what parents are doing are getting the word out there because they know those in charge of this will not so quickly.
I think what they should do is split the shot up until something is determined. Think of all the shots we subject our little ones too - that's a huge number at once to pour into their little bodies. I think the MMR is so potent that some just can't handle the process all at once and it does something to their chemical make-up. Maybe if it was split up the body can process it better and these things may not happened.
THis is all an uneducated guess but to me the practical thing to do would be to split them up first.
boyohboyohboy replied: and i was wondering also, lets just say for the sake of argument that you dont get the mmr vaccine. and your child gets one of those disease, measels or mumps or rubella. those are not life threatening right? i mean sure its not a piece of cake to get thru, but what are the chances of actually catching those diseases. i think the odds are fairly low, where i am starting to wonder with stats like 1 in 150 getting autism is pretty high....
is the mmr the only one that contains the thirmesol? (mercury)
do the other combo shots contain it, like the dtp?
kit_kats_mom replied: I actually think that Oprah (or someone on her show) said that now it's 1 in 94 boys and 20 years ago it was 1 in 3000 that came down with Autisim. My GF and I were discussing it and I think it has to be something that's different in our society. Possibly something like the MMR and Floridated water supplies equal autisim or somthing nutty like that. I doubt the vaccine causes the disorder but it may very likely play a part in the development. Does that make sense? Obviously, something is causing an increase in the disorder but I'm not ready to place the blame entirely on the vac's.
Exactly that is what I was saying. That is why I wonder if you spread them out. Like maybe the environment plus the MMR together makes this happen. Did it used to be a three shot combo?
luvmykids replied: I don't attribute it solely to the vaccine, I don't really know what I think at this point. I'm like LeAnn, I always just blindly assumed whatever the dr said was fine. The twins are done with theirs after yesterday but I'm definitely going to be rethinking Macie's....if I go ahead with them I at least want to be confident in the decision, kwim?
I agree with this. And this is totally OT, but I think it's the same as the HRT not causing breast cancer per se, but might possibly be speeding up the process. What we eat, how much we weigh, how active we are and other health conditions play a huge role in all of this. Just like Jennie said on the show about changing her son's diet and she began seeing immediate results. But, I think everything is attributed to what we put in our bodies...
The thimersol isn't only in the MMR - it was used in most vaxs - but usually in ones that contain more than one dose so that the med in the bottle doesn't get contaminated each time it is used...but it is also used in single dose vaxs as well...
holley79 replied: I didn't see the show. I think there are so many things now that we are putting in our body that it's going to be hard to pin point the exact reason for things happening to our children. We have hormones being added, vaccinations containing things we can't pronounce, food containing preservatives and what ever else. Bottom line is vaccinations confuse me.
moped replied: Can I ask a dumb question - I haven't read all the responses, but just one question: Was it proven that the vax gave her son autism???? It all confuses me too Holley!
I was wondering the same. Thanks for asking this question, Jan.
I was agreeing with everything you said Karen...I think my post was confusing. I was trying to say that I was so uneducated with Hanna that I just got the vacs and now all of this stuff I'm hearing is making me question the shots. I remember getting the MMR at a much older age as Jeannie had mentioned not at 12 mos old...my mom gave it to me because she worked in a doctor's office, so I was actually asking why they get it so young I guess? If you notice my last sentence talks about how concerned I am.
I just wanted to post because I agree with everything you're saying, I just worded my post weird. Oh and about chicken pox I mean I didn't get the vaccine, I got the actual chicken pox and I'm fine, why are they stopping kids from getting it and building a natural defense to it.
coasterqueen replied: Sorry about that. I was reading it fast, too, and probably misread some of it.
DillsMommy replied: When is the shot given? Is it at a certain age? Sorry I'm dumb....
Our Lil' Family replied: I think it's given at 2 years. I just got confirmation from my ped's office that they use single dose vials with no preservatives. They said they'd split them, they just have to know in advance to order them that way! I'll know for next baby, as it's too late now for Thomas.
Brias3 replied: Gosh, I feel so uneducated. I vaccinated my kids without blinking an eye, just because I trusted the ped's opinion and it SEEMS to be the norm, you know?
It's so scary to know these things quite honestly...
I know....the twins have had their full vaccinations now so part of me doesn't even want to know because there is nothing to do about it anyway, kwim?
The more I find out in wanting to rethink things for Macie, the more I don't want to know
well, at the rate that autusim is growing, it may soon be the norm. I mean really, 1 out of 93 boys? That really prevelent. Frankly, I'm amazed that I don't know anyone with an autistic child with those numbers.
Well what I don't understand is where they are certain on the 1 in 93 boys. I did some looking around while I was at work and there are conflicting statements to that fact on so many different website. It just boggled my mind and I had to stop reading.
I did at first, too, with Kylie. Then I started thinking about it more and researching it. Don't get me wrong, I still get the girls their shots. They got the MMR. I tried really hard to get Megan's MMR shot split up, though. Didn't happen. I did, however, space out Megan's shots because of her sensory issues.