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OK! What happened to my milk supply?


Kila wrote: The other day I posted message about how successful my pumping was going. Well, not any more! I'm starting worry a little. I started noticing the decrease on Sunday. Yesterday I only got about 4.5 ounces the ENTIRE day. What was that about. I pumped before I came to work today and got a measly 1.5 oz and then I only got a chance to pump twice since I've been at work. One at 10:30 and another at 2:30. Both times I got about 3 oz. I'm going to start double pumping so time isn't so much of an issue. I started to take the fenugreek last night. The instructions recommend taking 2 capsules 3 times a day. We'll see how it works. But what did I do to my supply? I can't seem to figure out what went wrong. I was doing so well. I'm worried that I'm going to have to start supplementing soon if things don't return to the way they were. Any suggestions/ideas?

coasterqueen replied: Well supply will regulate over time to meet the baby's needs. Besides that if you are pumping less than what your baby would actually be nursing your body regulates and so you will eventually get less. It's kind of a yo-yo effect. Especially if you were home with baby during maternity leave, feeding on demand, then went back to work and decreased the amount of pumping sessions lower than what baby would normal nurse, kwim? That "decrease" can take a bit of time making it seem like supply is dwindling when really it's just regulated.

Are you just pumping one side at each session or both? I can't stress the importance of 3 nursing sessions (pumping both sides) enough. Your baby should normally at every 3 hours (give or take) so that's how many times you should be pumping. And that 20 minutes I suggested before can really help to squeeze out a bit more in ounces.

Also when you get AF back you may notice a dip in supply but at that time let me know wink.gif I have reading on what supplements you can take to help that out wink.gif.

Also are you supplementing at all? Nursing baby less? Giving a pacifier more often than breastfeeding, etc? How often does baby nurse when you are home?

kimberley replied: i am sure Karen will give you a ton of wonderful advice when she gets on since she is the BF guru of the board but i do have a couple of suggestions that worked for me.

relax. i know it is probably a difficult thing to do at work, but try to get comfy, close your eyes and think about your baby. you may even want to record your babies cry because that ALWAYS stimulated a letdown for me. the more i thought about pumping, the less i would get.

drink plenty of fluids. i drank at least 6 - 8oz glasses of water/day and if all else failed, i would have 1 beer and would have no trouble expressing. i just used a small manual hand pump and could get 7oz at a time that way.

pump while baby is nursing. nothing stimulates letdown better that your baby.

bring the pump when you have a hot shower. for some odd reason, i would get a fierce letdown in the shower to the point where i was "white-washing" the walls blush.gif .

i wish you lots of luck and hope things get better soon grouphug.gif

amynicole21 replied: Sounds like you might just be regulating to what will be your regular supply. sad.gif Taking fenugreek will probably help, but make sure you smell like maple syrup or you aren't taking enough. Just make sure you are nursing her as much as possible when you are home with her, and especially on weekends, so that your supply keeps up with her needs. Good luck!

Kila replied:




I'm definitely pumping each side when I pump but I need to make it 20 minutes and fit that 3rd session in. What is really hard for me right now is establishing the routine. I wake up at 6am to go to work by 7:30. I used to be able to make it home for lunch but I haven't been able to do this because I have to make it an 8 hour day instead of a 9 hour day because DH has to work at 5pm. My supervisor hasn't said anything to me but, theoritically, I will have to take a total of 1 hour out of my day to pump. That's not a problem but if I'm not taking a lunch it comes out of my work day so I only really work 7 hours. I am salary so I have to work a total of 40 hours and there's no way for me to make up the extra hour each day because DH is going in as late as he can. BF is really important to me. I started freaking out this evening because I still only got 1 oz. after dinner with her on the other breast. I have enough stored for tomorrow but I only have about two feedings in the freezer for her on Thursday. If I can't get a substantial amount tomorrow I'm going to have to suplement with formula and that is very upsetting to me. I don't know why I feel so strong about bf. Maybe it's because I feel close to her when I'm not there if she drink my breast milk. Who knows. What's really frustrating is that I was doing so good! It was there and now it just vanished. So I know that I'm capable of doing it. Argh! I'm going to pump whenever I need to for the 20 minutes and that's that. If my work has an issue, they're just going to have to deal.

Karen - Sydney just took the pacifier last week and Dad only uses it to calm her down when I'm not home. If she gets so worked up w/ the hiccups or just doesn't want to fall asleep, he lets her have it until she stops. So, it's not a constant thing by any means. When I'm at home she nurses about 4 times, at least. Is there still hope to keep her solely on breast milk?

Thank you so much everyone for all of your help! Things are getting a little hectic around here and it's hard to establish a routine that works.

Kila replied: Karen - AF started visiting 5 weeks after she was born. I was put on the mini pill and have it about every 15 days. My dr said that it is normal. Should I start looking into the supplements that you mentioned earlier?

coasterqueen replied: Kila,

First off is AF around right now while you are experiencing the dip in supply or is she near? That would help determine how much AF is affecting your supply.

Here's is a quoted posted from a friend of mine, Paula who is a CL on another BF board. I figure why type it out if she's already sent it to me before, lol.

<<You might try adding a calcium/magnesium supplement to your diet upon ovulation and continue it through the second or third day of a period. The supplement should be 1500 calcium/750 magnesium but can be as low as 500 calcium/250 magnesium (the higher the dosage the more effective and quicker the results). It should be a combination pill. This much calcium should never be taken alone.

If your cycles are not regular and you do not know when you ovulate, you can take the supplement the entire month until you begin to see a pattern to your flow. This type of supplement seems to work as it prevents the drop in blood calcium levels which occurs mid-cycle and continues through the second to third day of a period. It is this drop which is associated with the nipple tenderness and drop in milk supply as well as the uterine cramping so often experienced with menstruation. You only need to take one pill a day.>>

FWIW, I took the supplement all through the month and mine was 500mg mag and 1000 cal. This helped tremendously and definitely took away that nipple tenderness that I and some experience when AF shows while BF.

You also mentioned you are taking the mini pill? For some, not all, this can cause low milk supply as well. IMO if you can, I would get off of it for awhile and use other forms of protection and see how that does. It may take a month or so to see a difference. I did this and just went to condoms, a pain I know but well worth it wink.gif.

I have some other tips for you on pumping but I need to tend to my dd for a bit before leaving for work. When I get to work I'll post some more. Hang in there! You CAN do this, it just might take a lot more effort on your part than you expected, it did for me, but it's well worth the outcome wink.gif.

coasterqueen replied: Okay let me see what else I can do here to help.

How many times a day is she nursing when you are with her on the weekends? How many times did she nurse BEFORE going back to work. And when you say she nurses about 4 times when you are with her now that you are back to work is that morning/night? Does she sleep through the night? These types of patterns can be helpful sometimes in seeing what the problem might be.

I didn't have supply issues so much so until AF came back and when she did it was horrible! Once I got a few months on that supplement I saw a world of difference and have heard that to be the case with many women.

Just because you only got an ounce on once side while nursing on the other doesn't mean much. I know it is completely freaking you out that you may not have enough to send with your daughter. Believe me I have been there way too many times. For me though I had a mission that kept me going. See I had an unexpected c/s with my DD and had failure issues with that for a long long time. So for me breastfeeding/working & pumping was the only thing at that point that I was determined NOT to fail out. It was what kept me going. If I didn't have enough to send with Kylie to daycare I'd send her 1/2 day and take a 1/2 day off with her or sometimes I took the whole day off. For me supplementation was a word I was not even going to consider for one second...it would be my failure.

Now I'm only telling you my story to show you what I was feeling. That does not mean that if you do go to supplementation that it's your failure or that you are a bad mom. If you are fine with it then do so. For me it was not an option, only taking off of work was. Now I know not everyone has that option and at the time I did. Who knows I may not have that option when Megan comes. We do what we have to do and come to terms with it.

Ok, so you go get up at 6 am and leave by 7:30 right? Well that was similar to my schedule. I got up at 6 am and left for work at 8. What I did was nurse Kylie, get ready for work, nurse her again, pump for 15 minutes on the other side she didn't nurse on, drop her off at daycare and then go to work. Is it possible to do something like that? I don't know what your routine is completely so I'm just throwing something out here. That extra pump in the morning sometimes helped to make sure I had enough for the next day.

Also, I then pumped at 10, 1, 4 during the day for 20 minutes each. Now I know you are salary and don't get a lunch hour so you can get home earlier. What is your work situation like? Do you have your own office? Do you also get "breaks" during the day? If you get breaks use them to pump, if you have your own office...lock the door or put a chair in front of it and pump while you work. I did that numerous times ( I don't have an office, but I borrowed one and worked at same time). If none of these apply what about pumping on the way to work and pumping on your way home? Can be dangerous but can be done. How long is your commute time? Then you would only have to worry about pumping one time at work during office hours.

Sometimes even if I got 3 sessions in at work, I'd still pump on the way home to get a bit extra...now I'd only pump one time then so Kylie could have the other side as soon as I got home. Since Kylie was nursing every 2 hours around the clock I'd nurse her (like in the mid of night) and at same time or right afterwards pump the other side to get extra.

I also would pump on the weekends when I could too. Just anything and everything I could do to get enough to send with her. It wasn't til 18 months or so that finally I couldn't do that any longer, I just couldn't keep up with her anymore. At that time I sent whatever ebm I could pump and the rest whole milk. I quit pumping all together when DD was 21 months old (which was 19 months of pumping).

I never tried fenugreek or anything of that nature, but I hear it works. For me I just had an issue with smelling like maple syrup all the time. tongue.gif So I just put myself through worst torture of pumping all the time.

I don't know if any of this helps. Answering some of my questions might spark some more thought on this so let me know. Just know that each and every one of us are different and not all of us can do what another does. Some of us have "overdrive" to do things and some of us don't. Believe me there are plenty of things out there that mothers do for their children that I just don't have the drive to do and vice versa. You have to dig deep in yourself and find out your own drive and determination and see if going what I call "the mad mile" is worth it or not.

Nursing/pumping is all about supply and demand. If you are nursing on demand and pumping when you would normally be nursing you SHOULD have enough supply. There are rarely any factors that constitutes not enough supply to supplement. Just for some it takes working on "overdrive" to get there and some it don't. It took a very good person to make me realize all this and that your breasts make the milk it needs.....it's never low....it just sometimes takes a bit of extra effort and insanity to get there. I'm babbling now, lol.

Hope some of this helps. Just remember we are here for you no matter what you decide to do. FWIW, I'm not sure I have that "overdrive" this time around to do so with Megan. I could do it once, but not sure I can do it again wink.gif. Only time will tell.

Kila replied: Oh my God, Karen! You are an angel! Thanks for the time you are taking out to help me through all of this. Here are the answers to your questions:

1) How many times a day is she nursing?

When I'm home on the weekends she's usually nursing around 7-8 times a day and she nursed about this amount when I was on maternity leave too.

2) And when you say she nurses about 4 times when you are with her now that you are back to work is that morning/night?

She nurses about 4 times a day now at night.

3) Does she sleep through the night?

She pretty much sleeps through the night. I'll put her down some time between 9:30 and 10pm. Since she cosleeps I roll over and feed her usually twice during the night and then she doesn't usually get up until 8-9 am. But the problem might be that when I nurse her I fall back asleep and I think she does too so I don't really know how much she's really getting at night and maybe that's why my supply is down. But the thing is is that she's always done this. Should I wake her up and make sure she gets a full feeding?

4) Work situation:

I invade (for lack of a better term) my coworkers office and pump in there behind closed doors. It's nice because she's like a mother to me and we just chat to keep my mind off of things. It was working for a little while but not any more.

I live about 15 minutes away from work so do you think that I should pump on my way home?

I definitely think that I'm going to try your morning routine now. I fed her in bed and then I pumped both sides after I was ready for work. Does it matter whether she's on the other breast or can I just double pump right before I go to work like I did this morning?

5) As far as AF is concerned I think she's right around the corner...the operative word being THINK! I could be wrong though. Since Sydney's birth, my cycle is about every 15 days. I finished my b/c pack the day before yesterday so one would say AF should have come yesterday but she didn't. I just don't think that my cycle has become regular though.

So you suggest getting off the pill and taking the supplement? I don't have a problem with that. We use a condom on top of the pill anyway. Just trying to be ultra careful.

How long does it usually take to see an increase in supply? I just don't want to "miss the boat" on this.

I definitely feel strongly about going the extra mile with this pumping thing. It is dictating my life right now but it's so important to me. I DO NOT want to supplement and that's what's killing me.

Did I answer everything you needed to know? Let me know if I didn't. Again, thank you so much for taking time out to help. wub.gif I am getting really worked up about this.

coasterqueen replied: Sorry it's taken me a bit to get back to you...a zoo here at work and a sickling at home with daddy. sad.gif wacko.gif

BTW, you are very welcome. I feel like I wouldn't have succeeded without all the great help I received in helping me make it as far as I did so I feel like I should do the same for others. wink.gif

Okay so she's nursing every 3 hours that's ok. I wouldn't let that go any less than that (i.e. nursing/bottles) especially at this age.

If she's sleeping through the night don't wake her. Take that as a blessing wink.gif. Just make sure she gets enough ebm or nursing sessions in the rest of the day.

As far as work situation...you could be having issues with letdown as many had mentioned above. Especially pumping in a room with another co-worker. Boy, I know I would. Sometimes when I pumped if I even heard someone outside the door talking...well there went my letdown. rolleyes.gif Is there a way to ask her one time if she could leave the room for 20 minutes so you can see if her being in there is the issue? I know a difficult thing to ask a co-worker but she might oblige. If not what I would suggest doing is tape recording your baby's babbles/cries and then wearing headphones while pumping and listen to that. That could help. I'd try that and if that doesn't work then reading or playing on the computer would be my next best guess. Oh and a picture like mentioned above might help, but IMO I'd think the sound of baby's voice might help the best and keep you distracted from your co-worker being in the same room.

Depending on traffic I can have anywhere from an 8 minute to a 1/2 hour trip home. It's technically only 8 miles from my house to my work. I live out of town in the country but because there is an "easy access" road straight to our downtown area it makes it better for me. And yes I did still pump on way home. Just one side though so baby could have other side. That way it's not so dangerous to pump and drive. tongue.gif It could get messy (btdt) so bring a towel for any spillage wink.gif. IMO if you get desperate and don't have enough ebm this is ALWAYS an option rather than formula. I didn't do it all the time, just when I really needed to.

If she's not going to nurse again right before you go to work then definitely pump both, why not? Say you do that at 7:10 or so then you wouldn't pump again til say 10:10 and can stretch it to 11 or so. That way you *may* be able to just have two pumps at work and the one in the morning and that might do you just fine. Just play around with it a bit. You obviously don't have oversupply so toying around with it won't hurt. I had oversupply in the beginning before AF came and over-pumping is not good, lol. Funny how I went from over-supply to under-supply now that I think back. rolleyes.gif

As far as supplement/pill.....if you are already using condoms and are comfortable that being the only protection then YES get off the pill at least for a few months and see what that does to your supply. OR you can take the supplement for a few months while taking the pill and see how that helps you. wink.gif

Depending on methods I would usually say a week to increase supply. That's with adding in an extra session or two. If you just go with the supplement I'd give it a month or so to see results. It's all just a big guess, but as long as you aren't doing anything less than you already are you should not go down in supply, kwim.
You definitely want to get this corrected soon and especially before you ever intro solids wink.gif.

Hang in there and don't hesitate to ask any more questions wink.gif.

DansMom replied: You've gotten great advice---I just want to say a few supportive things. What you're describing happened to me, I would say when Daniel was about 4 months old and I had been back to work for about 8 weeks, pumping twice a day (I was also going home for lunch to nurse, as I live close by, so it was the equivalent of 3 pumping sessions (10 am, 12:15, and 2:30). What happened to me was a SUDDEN lack of production for the pump (I could tell that the nursing was still going well though, that he was still getting plenty from me) when I was used to making like 6 ounces per session. This went on for several weeks, and I began to feel inadequate and desperate, which only made the milk not let down even more because I was distraught and discouraged even before plugging the pump into the outlet. I was probably making a major supply adjustment, as my breasts also changed from always full/engorged to more normal, filling only after hours went by. Still, I panicked, and bought a new pump which is more complicated in design but mimics a baby's suckling a bit more closely (the brand name is Whittlestone). It might have been psychological or it might have been the timing of the purchase, but trying the new pump seemed to kick things back into gear. What I produced went from almost nothing to about 2 ounces per breast per session (sometimes not that good, sometimes better). I never went back to the mega-production I had before the change, but I always got at least one or two let-downs after that.

My point is just to urge you not to get discouraged if you have more failures at the pump---from my own experience, it can take weeks to get back on track.

Kila replied: I just wanted to thank you guys again. I really truly appreciate the advice. BF is very important to me because I want to give her the best. I have a tendency to get worked up over things and talking to you guys and getting sound advice has helped ease my mind.


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