I have another dog question

coasterqueen wrote: I mentioned before we wanted to get another dog.....yeah I know we are SERIOUSLY C R A Z Y. I, for the life of me, am not sure why I still want another one considering Gavin decided to pee on the floor this morning (at least it was on the tile) and we have two cats that seem to go wherever instead of the litterbox. Actually Gavin is pretty great...it's the two cats we are seriously considering removal (not really, but they are stressing us out).

NEways....we originally wanted to get another dog for a companion for Gavin. The girls wanted another one because they wanted a puppy all along and daddy wanted a dog and daddy won that war. So daddy gave in and said he'd get a puppy for them. Our dog trainer says that no dog needs a companion and they really don't want one. I'm not so sure about that, but ok, he's the dog person, not me. He also said you have to keep the dogs away from each other for 5 months, so they don't become dog aggressive and create dominance in pairs over the rest of us.

Right now until Gavin decides life would be better being inside and not eating the cats he has to be on a tie-out during the day while we are at work. If he'd just think of the cats as something else than food we'd be ok. My thinking is we get another pup that eventually would keep him company outside all day, right? Especially since we don't know if he'll ever be able to coexist with the cats.

The problem is our sitter is a cocker spaniel breeder. She has one pup the girls have fallen madly in love with and I sorta have too. The girls are basically making Ryan feel bad on a daily basis for not getting them this pup (who is called "no-name" until he gets a home ). So Ryan said, ok, if Gavin can get along with this dog we can get "no-name". The problem is that a CS can't really be on a tie-out all day, so eventually after no-name is crate trained, he'd be an inside dog during the day while we are at work. That's if he can get along with the cats . He is around one cat at the sitter, but that cat is so docile......ours are running mad men 24/7. So I'm worried that Gavin will have major issues knowing that another dog is inside more than him as he already gets that way knowing two cats are inside and he is not.

Gavin is very attached to us and wants to be by us 24/7 and LOVES being inside.

So do you think it's better to get a dog Gavin's size to be outside with him during the day or ok that we get a smaller dog? The girls really want a dog that can get up on their beds, etc. Gavin is really mine and Ryan's dog. He's our baby.

Any tips, advice? We need to make a decision soon as I know (she hasn't said this) my sitter is holding off really advertising this pup since she knows the girls love him so much.

I never thought I'd want a cocker spaniel as I really don't want to do all the grooming, etc, but this is the most docile little dog and he just won the girls and my heart.

coasterqueen replied: Here are two pics of no-name when he was 8 weeks old. He is about 12 weeks now. The girls have been with him since he was born. Megan actually watched him being born.

He's the same colors as Gavin. All black with the white chest.

ETA: He's at least twice the size of this pic, now.

coasterqueen replied: And one more

DVFlyer replied: Why can't a CS be on a tie-out all day? While I don't agree with the practice, there is no reason I can see that one dog could and another couldn't (generally speaking).

And no, dogs don't need other dogs as companions.

I also do not agree with separating the dogs for 5 months to keep them from getting dominant over you and/ or dog aggressive. Dogs will set up pack structure at any time.

It's up to you to make sure they know who is the leader of the pack. This can be very difficult and the "experts" I get advice from talk about doing things like rotating crates etc so the dogs do not get used to one thing.

Lots of happy people living with happy multiple dogs I'm sure who have never done anything crazy while raising them.

Cats are a whole 'nother ball game. A high prey drive dog may never learn to coexist with a cat. Lots of training.... and then more training....

coasterqueen replied: Thanks DVFlyer. I guess the CS could be on a tie-out, but I'm not sure our sitter would go for an adoption then, either. We really don't want Gavin on a tie-out either, we'd rather him be inside, but...... Not for now, at least. I'm so impatient, we've only had him since end of June, so I know I need to give that issue time.

Yeah, I don't agree with the 5 month thing either. Well knowing that someone else thinks dogs don't need companions, makes me feel a bit better about going with the CS.

Anyone on here have a CS? All of my sitter's cockers are so rambunctous (but cute ), but they are her babies and don't really get any formal training. Ours will for sure, you can bet on that.

ETA: Actually the sitter has never considered adopting a pup to us in the past because Ryan said the dogs had to be outside. Well know that we have Gavin he has decided we can have inside dogs and so she said she'd consider it.

DVFlyer replied: Be sure to be honest with the breeder.... Most breeders I know would not allow a dog to be placed in a home where the dog would be on a tie-out for any length of time. Understand that an outside kennel is different than on a tie-out.... more chance for injury on the tie-out.

Gavin could be in a crate while inside unsupervised. No excuses.

When I feel bad that Ginger doesn't get to "play" inside, I watch what she does while she is in her kennel... she sleeps or lays in the sun. She could do the same thing inside (and does when I get on Michelle. ).

CS info for you...

http://www.akc.org/breeds/cocker_spaniel/index.cfm

coasterqueen replied:
Oh we are definitely honest with our breeder, as she's our sitter, very close to us (like family) and lives down the road and takes care of our animals sometimes when we are out of town. There is no hiding anything from her.

Yes, Gavin could be in a crate during the day, but I firmly believe he is happier outside as he has more room to move. Those crates provide no room, IMO, and when we tried crating him at night he would keep getting up and down every few minutes to get comfortable and he seemed miserable in it. I don't know it is the possible hip problem we suspect he has, that made the crate uncomfortable, not sure. I know I'd rather have more freedom to walk around and stretch outside on a tie-out than stuck inside in crate. He is on a leash type system in the house until he stops trying to eat the cats for a snack. I just L O V E how the APL and Pound told us that both have been around the other "type" and that they should all get along.

Gavin didn't even move when he was inside his outside kennel. He just layed there all day. When we took him out of the kennel and put him on the tie-out he roamed around more, digging in the garden, choosing several different places to lay -- he looked a lot happier to me.

luvmykids replied:
ITA with everything here, especially that dogs will set up a pack anytime and that does not have to be a bad thing....our dogs in spite of us I guess got the right balance somehow The three of them are a pack with a definite pecking order, but it has never caused a problem where people are concerned, they know WE are the pack leaders (including the kids).

And, dogs may not need a companion but ours sure do like having each other and look for each other, they're pretty much inseperable when we're gone.

Most of all though, I agree with the cat thing. Bogie and Harley both but more so Bogie are hunters and will always be. I've done everything you can think of trying to teach them that we love cats but at this point I will never, ever trust either of them with one. They've gotten where I can stop them from going after one, but if we're not right there the split second they think about it, they still will. Bogie seems to have this same issue with small dogs too (aside from our shihtzu)....he just refuses to tolerate them for some reason.

My3LilMonkeys replied: Just to give you a little hope here...we had 2 cats when we first got our dog and they were terrible, barking and yowling and claws flying every time they were in a room together. After a month or two things definitely settled down and we have since added another cat and they all tolerate each other just fine now. There are still incidents of barking or hissing sometimes, but the attempted attacking has completely disappeared (except for when our one cat had kittens but that's another story).

cameragirl21 replied: I personally think keeping Gavin outside while he knows the cats are inside perpetuates the problem of them not getting along. I'd bring him inside and separate him from the cats, like put the cats in one room or keep them upstairs and Gavin downstairs or something so that they can't fight but will still smell each other and get used to each other's smell and presence.
As for the pup, I've never heard of having to separate them at all, they willl establish their heirarchy almost immediately. The pup will probably get along easier with the cats as long as they don't scratch him.
All in all, if you want your dog to be a family dog then you shouldn't tie him up outside...I get why you're doing it but I think you should consider forcing them to be together but separate in the house until they learn to coexist.
And while I'm not a CS fan, that puppy is way too cute, I'd get him.

mom21kid2dogs replied: I had a cocker prior to Parker. He was a full bred stray we picked up after he kept wandering into Mass one evening. He was clearly someones but no one ever claimed him. He was 6 months old when we got him. He was an insanely great dog!! Very even tempered, total lovebug and darned smart. We also called him our million dollar baby because of the grooming costs $50 every 4-6 weeks. The upside was he never, ever shed at all. He was very atypical for a cocker (so said both the vet & the groomer) because of his great temperment and low heath costs. As a breed, cockers are prone towards ear, eye and skin problems. Dudley had a mild skin allergy, never and ear or eye problem. He was fine with cats, BTW.

We introduced a new dog to the family (and frequently take in strays until we find owners or rehome) and have never seperated dogs for 5 months. dogs are pack animals and will form pachks if you aren't in charge even if you seperate for 5 years. Who is the more dominant dog generally is more the individual dogs disposition, not who was there first, length of seperation, etc. Don't get his logic on that one, either. I do agree that dogs do not need other dogs as their companions. Single dogs are plenty happy to be single dogs. In fact, some dogs may become animal aggressive toward each other mostly based on the tolerance level and disposition. How does Gavin react to encounters with dogs now? Does he show and aggression?

coasterqueen replied: I misspoke about the 5 month thing after talking more about it with Ryan last night. I misunderstood our trainer. He said keep them away for 4-5 months so the dog becomes YOUR dog, not the other dog's dog. Does that make sense? That gives the owner time to establish a connection with the dog first. I know there's no way we are going to do it that way, though.

Cheryl, Gavin is not aggressive towards other dogs. All he wants to do is sniff and play with them. Never growls or anything.

The upside of things is I've noticed Sox (one of the cats - the problem one with the dog) has become more at ease and more daring to be around Gavin. Last night I was walking Gavin to bed and Sox was right by him and Gavin didn't bark or try to go after him and Sox didn't hiss and throw a massive fit like he normally does. So I think we are getting towards at least co-existing.

I keep telling myself we are cruising for a bruising with adding another dog into the mix so soon, but we have decided to do it. I'm freaked out about it because I really know nothing about cockers and Ryan has said that I'm mainly in charge of this one. He said he'd help,just like we work together with Gavin and the cats, but this dog will be mine. Technically it will be the girls since they wanted him so bad and I plan to make them help me with him since he's smaller. They have a harder time with him since he's so big. We are getting no-name on Friday, so I'm frantically trying to figure out how to deal with a small dog. This dog is not wee-pad trained/crate trained. He runs loose now (crated at night) and she just lets him out all day long to go potty. He's not leash trained either. So I have my work cut out for me and want to make it as smooth as possible so as to not upset Ryan. I know my poor husband is doing this only for the kids (and me) as he's happy with just Gavin. Very sweet of him.

aspenblue1 replied: I have never seperate any of my dogs when I bring in a new one and they all know they are my dogs. I just got a pound puppy a month ago and him and Bru are the best of friends but they both know that they are my dogs and they both follow me around everywhere. I totally don't agree with seperating them they need to learn their place in the entire family and can't do that unless they are around everyone including the other dog and cats.

coasterqueen replied:
Hey Carrie! First off it's nice to *see* you again. Second, I believe you work full-time, right? How do you deal with a pup when you are at work? I'm starting to freak out because my sitter lets the pup run around during the day, crate when she's gone and at night. So when he comes home with me he's going to have to be crated all day while we are at work. We are going to try to arrange coming home at lunch, at least. I know we'll have messes in the crate because I don't expect him to hold it so long as a pup.

Any tips? With Gavin our other dog, he's on tie-out during day outside until he can get along with the cats inside.

aspenblue1 replied: Hi Karen. I tried to respond earlier but work kept getting in the way. I do work fulltime and can not make it home for lunch. I put my dogs in a crate utnil they are potty trained and not chewing on everything during the day. The most impt thing I have found is that you need to make sure the crate is big enough the dog can turn around in but not too big. If it has too much room it will go potty on one side and lay on the other. I just prepared myself for there to be accidents in the crate for a while until they are old enough to hold it. Also with Bru I couldn't put anything on the bottom or he would eat it so watch that. I give them a bone or chew toy I don't have to worry about them choking on. I also make sure they go potty before I leave and as soon as I walk in they go outside and go potty.

coasterqueen replied: Thanks Carrie, for responding. I got a small crate, the size my sitter recommended for him. Fortunately, my sitter has offered "doggy daycare" for him 1/2 days during the week so he'll only be in a crate for 1/2 of the work day and then while we sleep. I was super happy she did that because he'll also get to socialize with the other dogs she has and he's been around them since birth. I know that can cause other issues, but for now we'll allow it until he gets to the stage he can be out of the crate.

I can't wait -- we bring him home with us today!!!