Going thru some trying times with Maddie

Maddie&EthansMom wrote: She's always been very disrespectful to me when her daddy is around. He yells at me (in front of her) while I'm disciplining her. He says things like "Why do you have to make her cry?" or he sighs VERY loudly and rolls his eyes. When he's not around and I discipline her she never sheds a tear, but when HE'S here she screams and cries and puts on a BIG show. It's all learned behavior. Scotty and I have a great relationship, but he's never made it clear to Maddie that I come first. It's obvious that she comes first when we are all together. He doesn't make her listen and he goes over my head when I tell her to do something. It makes it tough when I'm trying to be consistent in her discipline. She says awful things to me when he is around and while I reprimand her, he never does. Most of the time he chuckles and that makes her so much worse. When she was 2 we had a talk about this b/c this is when it started. I told him she will be impossible to handle as she gets older if he didn't start backing me up and quit going over my head. He's created a monster. It's really, really bad. She's a brat with a capital B.

If I ask her to do something she will say "You aren't the boss, daddy is." She says things like "Get your hands off of me" or my favorite "You think you're smart but you're not." When I talk to her she rolls her eyes and is very disrespectful. I am consistent in disciplining her. I have taken every approach....I just don't know what else to do. I can't even believe I'm describing my own daughter. She's not this way with other people, just me.

Some of you dads might can help me find a way to speak with my husband about this. I dread the teenage years. This is just way more than I can take right now.

luvbug00 replied: Brad used to do this until I fought back. I am not one for gentle disapline. If she talks back to me it's into her room and the worse she gets the hasher i get, regardless of what Brad says. I won't back down. I'd tell Scotty he is asking for it when she gets older becuase she knows she has him arround her little finger. Soon enough she isn't going to listen to him either. I've seen so many dads get walked over by thier little girls. Brads sister does this with her dad. she listenes every once and a while but ususaly just yells cries and screams back until she gets what she wants, and she DOES. Nip this in the BUD! Good luck!

kit_kats_mom replied: Scotty needs to understand that he has to help Maddie to learn respect for you. If he doesn't show you respect and doesn't require it of the kids, then you are in for it. The few times that Katherine has spouted off disrespectful stuff to me, her Daddy is right there with his serious face on and he tells her "you will not talk to my wife like that young lady." Then they discuss respectful behavior. Same goes for me. If she yells at her daddy I jump right in with "that's my husband you are talking to and I will not tolerate you speaking to him in a disrespectful tone".

We started this when she was young and so far, it's seemed to work.

mammag replied: I'm so sorry you are having so much trouble with her. I don't really have advice but just wanted to say that you really need to talk to him and get this taken care of because that is exactly what I went through with Kristen.

Some where along the line she decided she didn't have to respect me and would make comments like Maddie. As she got older it got worse to where we sought help but I really wish we would have done something a long time ago. We progressed to a point where she says she hates me in a very nasty, top of her lungs voice....says no when I tell her to do something...you get the picture. And like Maddie, she always showed respect for Dad and was a perfect angel everywhere else. Recently, it bit him though because he finally had had enough of her disrepspecting me and stepped in and she decided he is as evil as me.

Things are better for us but didn't get that way until we joined forces, so to speak. Now she is beginning to relearn that what we say, we mean and we are both going to follow through. I think anytime a kid knows they can get over on one parent, they use that for all its worth.

Hope the talk goes well and hopefully some of the guys here will be able to give advice on how to approach him so that he really gets it.

moped replied: This is an important issue that I think Scotty needs to undertand - and he also needs to understand how hard it is on you to hear your daughter talk that way to you. I think a good long talk with him is necessary and you may see a big imporvement with Maddie once he gets on board.

Sorry Aimee.......

redchief replied: You and Scott need to have a heart-to-heart regarding joint command of that household; AND FAST. I would have a frank discussion with your husband about how Maddie alters her behavior in his presence. If he seems to not understand or not believe maybe you could tape a few days around the house so he can see how the inconsistent discipline is altering her behavior. I'm serious when I say fast, because she is forming her opinions of discipline now and if she sees dad as a soft touch, she will learn (as it seems she already is) to play off dad any chance she gets.

Lisa and I have always put up a united front when disciplining our kids, even when we didn't agree. We discuss our disagreements in private and then, if warranted, make punishment adjustments afterward, with the disciplining parent doing the speaking. It goes something like this, "Your mom and I have been discussing your punishment and we feel we may have been to harsh (or easy as the situation goes), we've decided that this is what needs to be done...."

As part of your frank, private discussion, you should address his nonchalance when you're disciplining Maddie. If she sees daddy making fun or amused at her behavior, she's going to continue it. You need to make sure Scotty knows that sometimes kids have to cry while they're learning. A crying youngster doesn't make you mean or horrible, it just means she's not real happy about how things are going right now. You obviously let your kids know every day how much you love them and how important they are in your lives, they also need to know there are limits set that both of you agree on or the behavior you describe will get worse.

Finally, I saw one thing you said that I disagree with. I don't think it's necessary to set a heirarchy of import in the house (). While it IS necessary that your husband support your discipline, and even reinforce it, letting Maddie know that any member of the family has more emotional position over another will cause rebellion and unnecessary competition.

The big picture says there's a communication problem between you guys. You need to address that. I recommend against starting the conversation like, "Scott, I need to talk to you about Maddie and how you act with her...." That will set up a confrontational word battle that I don't believe will get you guys where you can openly discuss the problem. I would approach it more like this, "Scotty, I really need your help with Maddie. Can we talk about her and how we discipline for a while?" That will make him part and party to the solution to the problem, and should help make him more of a parenting team player. Let us know how you make out.

Boo&BugsMom replied: I have to agree with all of the above. If she is seeing that your husband doesn't respect you, then she is going to think that she doesn't have to respect you either. He needs to show you respect in front of the kids, AND he needs to back you up when you discipline her and stay on the same page as you instead of undermining your equal authority.

BAC'sMom replied: First I am sorry you having to go through all this with your daughter.

I know this might sound crazy, but the next time she has one of these out burst or is getting mouthy. I suggest you secretly videotape her! Then I would show that tape to Scotty so he can see the way she treats you/acts when he is not around.
I live with a little Drama queen too! So seeing is believing!!




I was so eager to reply I didn't even notice redchief’s reply about taping.

Maddie&EthansMom replied: I really dread this discussion with Scotty. I just really don't know how to go about it without being condemning and flat out telling him he is raising our daughter wrong and ruining her for life. I would never say this to him, but that's just how I feel. I mean, how do you get him to change? He thinks it's so cute that she is such a spoiled brat. His dad did this to his sister and she is such a menace to society. I don't want that to be MY daughter. I want her to be a well-rounded child and adult. I try so hard and it's all undone when he walks thru the door at the end of the day. Really, she's a great kid during the day when it's just she and Ethan here with me. She behaves so well. It's just when he's around that she acts out. I know it's something HE is doing wrong. I'll have to think about it some more and I will let you know how it goes when I finally talk to him about it.



What I meant by this was that she has no respect for me as her elder or being of authority. He often jokes "okay, kids get along" or things of that nature. My word should be the authoritive word, instead she assumes she can argue with me as if we are on the same level and not take what I say into consideration. It's so frustrating. She will not stop spouting off at me. He laughs and says "She's just like you". That's just not the thing to say at a time like this, kwim? Maybe in private, but not in front of her. And maybe she IS just like me, but saying things of this nature and in the tone he uses only encourages her and she is getting mixed signals that this is an okay way to speak with her mother.

And yes, we do have a communication problem, a very serious one. We cannot have a serious conversation without it turning into a huge fight. Therefore I avoid it. He takes everything so personal and is so defensive and flat out walks out of the room if he doesn't like what I've said. I'm sure I'm saying or doing something wrong for him to take it this way, but I've never been great with words. It's something I need to work on as well. He isn't the only one at fault.

Boo&BugsMom replied: Tell him that it is every single teacher's worst nightmare to get a child whose parent thinks that their bad behavior is cute. And I am not joking.

MommyToAshley replied: Aimee, I am sorry you are dealing with this. When I read the title of your post, I thought you were going to describe some of the typical things for kids her age. But, as I read your post, I realized your problem is more with Scotty than with Maddie. I am not sure how I would approach him, but I don't think you should avoid it anymore... and this is coming from someone that HATES confrontation.

Maybe you could find a book on discipline or parenting, then each of you read it and discuss how you could apply it to Maddie. Just make sure it stresses that BOTH parents have to be consistent and back one another up. Or, maybe you could write your thoughts down ... this way you have a chance to write and reword your thoughts before you actually say it to him. And, he would have to read it all before interrupting and things turning into a fight.

Rod and I have different parenting styles, and it is not easy. We try to compromise and come together. I think my way would be best, of course, but I've had to compromise on some things and he's had to compromise in order for both of us to be consistent. It really is not easy to give and take when it comes to your child and how you think she should be raised. But, I think you are right.... both parents have to back each other up and I would not be willing to compromise on that.

Maddie&EthansMom replied:
You're right. I was thinking earlier that I should have put this in 'General Relationships'. Maddie is only doing what comes natural to her and really should not be punished for that, only gently set in the right direction when she steps out of line. Scotty and I really do need to parent as a team instead of opponents.

Typing all of this has really helped me sort thru the situation and grasp what is really bothering me and the reality of how serious this is. Thank you all for your suggestions and support. Scotty seems to be in good humor lately so I will address the situation tonight or in the (very) near future. I appreciate you all listening to me

Bee_Kay replied: ITA with everything everyone else said Aimee. I strongly agree that the problem is more with Scotty than with Maddie. Hopefully, you and Scotty can find a common ground and band together and get her disrespectful behavior under control.

I promise you... if it doesn't get fixed fast, I am sorry to say that there is no doubt in my mind that it will get worse.

Good luck and KUP!!!

amymom replied: You have lots of great advice here.

Regarding what you said here, Is there a friend you could roleplay with? (lol Ed would be perfect). But seriously, maybe some practice would help you say words and phrases that will not be miscontrued or taken as an attack.

My husband sounds similar to Scotty in discipline regarding my son and I believe that is the source of most of our problems (even tho they are small ones) that we have now that he is a teen.

Good lUck,

A&A'smommy replied: Goodness Amiee I don't know what to say, I hope get it stopped soon!!

Brias3 replied: No real advice for you Aimee but did want to send a your way. You must be a mind-reader....I've been wanting to post something similar about recent behavior with Aliyah but haven't been able to put it into words. I don't want to make it seem like my daughter has the personality from h***, but these days, she sure is a force to be reckoned with! I'll certainly go through these responses myself and see if I can try out some new things with her. Only difference in my situation is that dad isn't so much an issue. Definitely more lax than I am with discipline but WILL back me. It's just her whole attitude these days and her snottiness extending outside of the house, which I am NOT going to stand for. Let me know what works for you if you decide on anything new to try.

Best of luck!

luvmykids replied: I'm like Dee Dee, I hate confrontation and am terrible at it, I usually avoid it at all costs. But it really doesn't do me any good because the situation just worsens, and in this case it's important.

Kids need to view their parents as a "united front" that is impenetrable, even if one parent is out of line it should be discussed in private and the same parent who disciplined needs to be the one to retract if it comes to that so the kids don't see a crack in the wall .... I think I'd just try to bring it up in a non-attacking way, don't say "You do this, you do that" just that it's hard for you to discipline when she knows he won't back you up and that you'd like him to show her that you are to be respected. Maybe if you phrase it more as needing his help in this area than that he's doing something wrong he could hear you out.

I'm sorry, thats sooooo frustrating and I can see your worries about what it may be like if this continues. But for her sake as much as your sanity he needs to get the picture one way or another.