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Bailout and Obama redux


jcc64 wrote: Hallelujah!! Finally a step forward, imo:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090204/pl_nm/..._compensation_8

I know that in normal people's lives 500K is still an incredibly fat salary, but contrasted with what they've been getting, it's one step away from the bread line.

punkeemunkee'smom replied: IMO this is another step AWAY from free enterprise and toward communist policies. None of this...the bailout and now salary caps are what a free enterprise system is based upon. The banks should have been allowed to fail-they have done so before. This false floatation raft of $800 billion big ones is only going to lay waste to the value of our dwindling dollar in the long run...Those who could have afforded to stay in business should be allowed to pay their execs whatever they want....OK flame away now laugh.gif

jcc64 replied: Allowing our banking system to collapse entirely would be catastrophic for us as a country. The repercussions would be HUGE, and they would affect all of us, whether we have investments or not. It'd be nice to pretend those idiots on Wall St have nothing to do with the rest of us, but they do, like it or not. It's conceivable that you could decide to show up at the bank to withdraw your money and it not be there.
So, rah-rah free market, the free market's why my 401K is practically gone--money I've been saving diligently for 25 years now. Is the free market going to fund my retirement now?

coasterqueen replied: You know, I just don't know how to feel about any of this. On one hand I'm all for free-market, etc, etc, etc and let the cards fall where they may. BUT if that is the case then they shouldn't be getting a bail out, which I was against in the first place.

I really don't understand how a company could even want to allow high execs to receive the bonuses, pay, etc they get, but whatever. I know it happens in my own little place of work and is sickening to see it here while the rest of us get little. Which I guess is why I am partly for all of this.

I am completely against big government, though, and after reading this article it really makes me feel like we are going to go to a more socialist country with Obama in charge and to me that is scary.

I'm such a hypocrite, though, because I feel for both sides. blush.gif

luvmykids replied: I think what annoys me most is these huge corporations acting like teenagers with dads credit card...they got bailed out, and instead of trimming down and sticking to a budget, they're partying. I know that might be exaggerating a little, but thats my simplified opinion of it.

And Karen, I worry too that we're going to end up drastically Socialist with Obama...it bothers me greatly.

redchief replied: OK, you all are really upsetting me. I agree with Jeanne. I agree with Abbie. I never agree with either of you, but you both bring up some valid points that I find myself agreeing with. emlaugh.gif The only redeeming fact for me here is that I disagree with you both, too. YAY! laugh.gif

I agree with the president's move to make those receiving bail out money know what hurt is, too. Heck, I could live very comfortably for more than five years on $500K. If you're going to take the money of taxpayers to bail your mismanaged, over-bled business, you should be required to wear a scarlet letter while you bite the salary bullet. In my opinion every CEO of every company that is getting bail out money should be let go, as in fired. Seeking a low interest government loan to re-float a billion dollar plus corporation isn't just disgusting, it borders on criminal. That's what would happen when any of us screw up so bad as to sink the business we're working for. We'd be fired. The stockholders should demand it and we as consumers AND taxpayers should hold those companies accountable until every dime is repaid with interest. There should be no bonuses paid by any company receiving taxpayer subsidies, EVER. I'm a government employee and I never receive a bonus. It's against the law.

Jeanne is right. We can't allow our financial system to collapse. We, as in our representatives in Congress and the White House, put in place the lending rules that led to the collapse of the mortgage market. We ordered banks to be creative and find ways to lend money to people who had no prayer of repaying it. If we don't hold them up, we will no longer be in control of our banking system either. This is already happening as the big ones lose value and get gobbled up by international giants on discount financial institution shopping sprees. Along with the bailout though, we have to reform the lending rules so that this debacle is not repeated.

Abbie is right too. If the corporations benefiting from the bailout fail to show significant improvement, we all need to cut our losses and get whatever we can out of their capital holdings and let them go. We can't keep this up forever. Our government may have allowed and even encouraged the banks to lend badly, but a lot of banks were more careful and remain solvent. Those banks need to be looked at as role models, not the giants that got themselves into their current collective mess.

Finally, I sincerely hope that our 401K and other market investments are able to repair themselves. In fact, I more than hope... I and many others like Jeanne and me, NEED them to for our own futures. I highly doubt the government is going to look nearly so kindly on giving me a handout to keep me out of bankruptcy court.

coasterqueen replied:
Which is exactly why we should be staying out of the private sector - we being the government. People seem to want it both ways, and me included. People want big government to help those in need, but when the government does that #1 I never think they do it right and #2 when it goes wrong they want government to come back in and fix it. The government should have never made the banks lend to those who really can't afford it IMO. I don't just blame them, though, I blame the banks, and those people who actually walked into the bank and got a loan full knowing they couldn't pay it.

lisar replied: I agree with Jeanne and I agree with Abbie on points said. I think Obama capping these things isn't such a bad idea, but at the same time I don't want the government to have such control. However with that said these company's that got some of the bailout money should get penalized for spending like they did. Thats not what the money was for.

jcc64 replied: Look at it like this, guys. Think of it as welfare or food stamps. When people use either one of those gov't services, there are all sorts of stipulations and strings attached, as there should be. You can't buy alcohol, toilet paper, whatever else with food stamps--the gov't feels it has the right to tell these people what they can and can't use the money for, and I would guess that most people here would agree with that. I've seen many people make posts about what the food stamp person in front of them was buying with their "money." How is this any different? It's gov't welfare--you want to accept the help, you play by our rules. Otherwise, work it all out on your own, dude. Me, I have no proble telling someone they need to make due with a paltry half million while he's on my dime, whether it smacks of socialism or not. And bonuses, correct me if I'm wrong, but in my world you get a bonus for doing a good job, not for running the company into the ground.

Crystalina replied:
Yep.
That's all I'll say. I'm exhausted from debating with dh ever since Obama has been elected. rolleyes.gif tongue.gif

jcc64 replied: Here's a nice article about the whole thing:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/02/..._pay/index.html

LovelyBear18 replied:
I agree. I forgot what company turned down money from the government recently because it had strings attatched. I don't want our banks to fall in the gutter. People who spent big money on lavish items should bail themselves out. I think the business that received bail out money then used it to give bonuses, take lavish business trips, or all of a sudden can't provide papers showing where the government money went, should pay that money back. I'm half and half on the whole stimulus package right now. The more hands it goes through, the more stuff is added making the amount of money go up. Seems like everyone wants to put their own ideas in the plan.

redchief replied:
Jeanne, do you have to be a member to see this page? It only opens a log-in screen for me.

redchief replied:
Disregard... It was just an annoying splash front that didn't want to go away in Firefox. I got there.

redchief replied:
Despite the left bend of the blog, I find I agree with most of the points brought up by the author. I loved the quote from the Wall Street guy who said, "$500,000.00 isn't a lot of money." Poor baby. tongue.gif

jcc64 replied: You're right, Ed, it is a left-leaning site, but they really do their homework. They back up their assertions with fairly responsible research. You should take a peek in on a regular basis, I think you might actually find a payoff now and then. What I would love, is if you could, in kind, recommend a conservative version. Smart, well-thought out and researched, not a bunch of unsubstantiated bloviating on the order of Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh. More like a George Will kind of a site. Any suggestions?

jcc64 replied: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/06/opinion/06krugman.html?em

This is an excellent analysis of what's been going on in Congress over the last two weeks regarding the bailout. It pretty much sums it all up.

Hillbilly Housewife replied: The hosts of a radio show i listen to in the morning were taking about this yesterday.. and I understood it to be 500,000.00 for the execs at a bank... not for EACH exec. So if they have 5, it's 100,00.00 each...

jcc64 replied: No, Rocky, it's 500K per executive. Let me get out my violin...

Hillbilly Housewife replied:
That would take care of my family for nearly 20 years.


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